This is good and all but uh, where are the cloaks/capes?

Redguards_Revenge

Capes are going to be the next Mythic type thing. A special story about the cloak weaving families feuding, being able to go up to 9 trait cloaks.

They may have to get creative and put cloaks as "shoulders" for some type of limitation.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Kadraeus wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

The game doesn't have clothing physics or else the engine would melt. At best you'd have a cape that is glued to your character skeleton.

If they can animate tails to sway I'm sure they could figure out animation for cape clothing too

Not that simple, unfortunately. Tails have a very deliberate motion, whereas capes don't. Animating flowing cloth is hard, which is why it's usually simulated. (Which we know won't happen due to performance issues) Not that ZOS can't animate something like this, since some hair and the cloth on the front of most armor are animated like this, but I imagine they decided against capes because of constant clipping with weapons on your back

I'm sure if Pearl Abyss can figure it out for their smartphone version of BDO, ZOS could figure it out for ESO too. I think a lot of you are just assuming it has to be a lot more complicated than it has to be.

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. Not all MMO's or video games are created equal. Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. They were horrible and were removed before live. It is not us "assuming" anything, it's a fact that this engine can't support the physics coding required to do it right.
I tried to find a old video of what the "Hero Breton Costume" looked like and how capes worked on that, but can't find mine.

Can anyone please upload a video of Breton Hero Costume as to show what capes look like in ESO?
Perhaps Gina and Jess could do a "Armchair Developer" segment about this like they did with Underwater Exploration.

That's my two drakes. Again.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280943/why-is-the-breton-hero-costume-cape-acting-like-pants

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280211/review-breton-hero-outfit-is-a-complete-disaster

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466888/extremely-disappointed-of-breton-hero-armor

More even than the cape stapled to your butt.

Thank You @JKorr !
Now if the peeps who insist on having capes/cloaks will check out those links, we will be good for another month or so till this comes up again! Lol!!!
Huzzah!!!

Bat

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

SpacemanSpiff1

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

you assume so.

Elsonso

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

you assume so.

Even Lambert pretty much admitted that anything is possible. He did not admit that they would be doing it, though.

LunaFlora

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

you are referring to the same tassets and cloth pieces that clip through leg styles often of the same motif? capes would definitely clip through your body if they animated them the same way.

JKorr

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

The ones that float apparently unattached to the body, clipping through weapons etc? It really isn't a glowing recommendation.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Old consoles wouldnt be able to handle even more physics related things. That said, id love some cloaks too.

ghastley

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Bat

JKorr wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

The ones that float apparently unattached to the body, clipping through weapons etc? It really isn't a glowing recommendation.

So they "can't do" this, because they couldn't make capes not clip through weapons? Is that the rebuttal?

Because we do know that they can hide weapons (Gloambound weapon pack). I honestly don't see where all these big obstacles the nay-sayers claim exist that they couldn't possibly figure out ways around.

Bat

I also just noticed they actually already have animated capes (albeit a rather rudimentary form), on the Wraiths (look at the necromancer summons for examples of this).

I'm honestly just perplexed with the negative responses and rather imaginative arguments presented so far for why ZOS couldn't possibly give players capes for their characters to wear.

Elsonso

.

Bat wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

Or perhaps you assume it's easier than it is. [...] Just because a game does one thing doesn't mean they all can.
Please re-read the above responses. ESO had capes in Alpha and Beta. [...]

Or perhaps you all assume it's something that ZOS "can't do" because you just don't want them to. I believe they can, just like they have shown to be capable of animating more complex cloth movements on newer furnishings. Just like they have been capable of animating tassets and cloth pieces on armor for years. It's really just a matter of doing it at this point.

The ones that float apparently unattached to the body, clipping through weapons etc? It really isn't a glowing recommendation.

So they "can't do" this, because they couldn't make capes not clip through weapons? Is that the rebuttal?

In part... yes. Historically. As I remember, they didn't like how capes were animating, they had limited bones for animation in DX9, and they wanted to dock weapons on the back. It is easier to just "no capes!" and that is what they did. This is 2023, though, and they are no longer limited by DX9, although they probably still have animation limitations due to older console hardware. Ultimately, this is now more "they aren't interested" than "it isn't technically possible"

eKsDee

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Bat wrote: »

I also just noticed they actually already have animated capes (albeit a rather rudimentary form), on the Wraiths (look at the necromancer summons for examples of this).

I'm honestly just perplexed with the negative responses and rather imaginative arguments presented so far for why ZOS couldn't possibly give players capes for their characters to wear.

A NPC, i.e. Wraith is NOT a Player Character with the same coding. A NPC is a back ground asset. Not the same.
Those you call "nay - sayers" have been playing this game for 9 - 10 years. We saw what capes looked like before they were removed. We saw Breton Hero Costume. We have seen the forums and discussions for years. We have heard the Devs responses.
If you still wish to not believe us, then do your own research. Look for your self the 100's of threads about this going back years and see that we are not disagreeing for the fun of it, but because no, capes don't work in ESO. Period.
And to be honest, yes, I'm glad we don't have them.

Bat

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

A NPC, i.e. Wraith is NOT a Player Character with the same coding. A NPC is a back ground asset. Not the same.
Those you call "nay - sayers" have been playing this game for 9 - 10 years. We saw what capes looked like before they were removed. We saw Breton Hero Costume. We have seen the forums and discussions for years. We have heard the Devs responses.
If you still wish to not believe us, then do your own research. Look for your self the 100's of threads about this going back years and see that we are not disagreeing for the fun of it, but because no, capes don't work in ESO. Period.
And to be honest, yes, I'm glad we don't have them.

It seems you lot saying "no, they can't" are stuck in the past, to be honest.

They weren't as skilled animators back when they initially tried implementing capes, as they are today. They also weren't as skilled coders, world builders, et cetera. Look at some of the travelling merchants still using old walk animations and compare them to travelling merchants in newer zones. I for one am confident they have progressed far beyond those early days, as we've seen numerous examples of in terms of graphics in newer zones compared to older zones. It's almost as if they've honed their skills or something!

Speaking of "things that couldn't happen but happened", remember dragons? And all the arguments about how they could never?

Yeah.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Bat wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

A NPC, i.e. Wraith is NOT a Player Character with the same coding. A NPC is a back ground asset. Not the same.
Those you call "nay - sayers" have been playing this game for 9 - 10 years. We saw what capes looked like before they were removed. We saw Breton Hero Costume. We have seen the forums and discussions for years. We have heard the Devs responses.
If you still wish to not believe us, then do your own research. Look for your self the 100's of threads about this going back years and see that we are not disagreeing for the fun of it, but because no, capes don't work in ESO. Period.
And to be honest, yes, I'm glad we don't have them.

It seems you lot saying "no, they can't" are stuck in the past, to be honest.

They weren't as skilled animators back when they initially tried implementing capes, as they are today. They also weren't as skilled coders, world builders, et cetera. Look at some of the travelling merchants still using old walk animations and compare them to travelling merchants in newer zones. I for one am confident they have progressed far beyond those early days, as we've seen numerous examples of in terms of graphics in newer zones compared to older zones. It's almost as if they've honed their skills or something!

Speaking of "things that couldn't happen but happened", remember dragons? And all the arguments about how they could never?

Yeah.

Well, Dragons were a Lore Issue, not a technical one.
But you seem to believe that it is possible, and nothing anyone here can say to explain it to your satisfaction, so it's all good.
Thank you for the lively discussion and keep on hoping. Perhaps they will add capes someday.
Have a great day. May your sword stay sharp & your arrows fly true.
Huzzah!

Bat

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

But you seem to believe that it is possible

Why should I choose to believe it's impossible when all the arguments to that notion have been moot at best and at worst plain absurd (versions on "they can't do it because it would clip").

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

and nothing anyone here can say to explain it to your satisfaction

Again, the arguments against why this could "never happen" are moot at best.

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for the lively discussion and keep on hoping. Perhaps they will add capes someday.

I couldn't care less if they add capes to player wardrobes. I wouldn't wear one on any of my characters. It's just amazing to me how people can spend literally days on end arguing that they could never do that, due to technical issues, when clearly those technical issues are all possible to work around and already have been worked around. It's close to indiscernible from gaslighting in my opinion.

Nestor

eKsDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

It would not just be your animations. But all the other players on the screen too. It would be a slide show.

TaSheen

Nestor wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

It would not just be your animations. But all the other players on the screen too. It would be a slide show.

Well, if it was all client-side, then no - you'd see only your own character in the cloak. Others' clients would render the others' cloaks, and they would only see their own character in said cloak.

I'm still not interested - cloaks in games (whether client side renedered or otherwise) have never impressed me, and are not something I have any interest in.

Nestor

TaSheen wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

It would not just be your animations. But all the other players on the screen too. It would be a slide show.

Well, if it was all client-side, then no - you'd see only your own character in the cloak. Others' clients would render the others' cloaks, and they would only see their own character in said cloak.

I'm still not interested - cloaks in games (whether client side renedered or otherwise) have never impressed me, and are not something I have any interest in.

You see other players armors and costumes, so capes could not separated in that manner.

TaSheen

Nestor wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

It would not just be your animations. But all the other players on the screen too. It would be a slide show.

Well, if it was all client-side, then no - you'd see only your own character in the cloak. Others' clients would render the others' cloaks, and they would only see their own character in said cloak.

I'm still not interested - cloaks in games (whether client side renedered or otherwise) have never impressed me, and are not something I have any interest in.

You see other players armors and costumes, so capes could not separated in that manner.

Armor etc isn't just client side as I understand it. But of course, I don't have insider info on that. I've never seen anything posted regarding character graphics being only client side but still rendered fully on the server.

ethantokes

Capes plz, and hideable shoulders, gloves, etc.

Elsonso

TaSheen wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

A point that has not been brought up is that cloth physics depends on collision detection with the rest of the player’s equipment. Currently player characters have no collision, which means they can’t block doorways etc. So we could have capes at the expense of being able to access the bank, or crafting stations, or any place other players get in the way.

I would choose those over capes.

Not really. All of the cape animation could be done client side, only happening on your machine and only caring about your character. Nothing about capes needs to be done server side, which is the side that the collision you're talking about would occur on.

It would not just be your animations. But all the other players on the screen too. It would be a slide show.

Well, if it was all client-side, then no - you'd see only your own character in the cloak. Others' clients would render the others' cloaks, and they would only see their own character in said cloak.

I'm still not interested - cloaks in games (whether client side renedered or otherwise) have never impressed me, and are not something I have any interest in.

You see other players armors and costumes, so capes could not separated in that manner.

Armor etc isn't just client side as I understand it. But of course, I don't have insider info on that. I've never seen anything posted regarding character graphics being only client side but still rendered fully on the server.

The server tracks things, but would not render cloaks. It would communicate cape clothing info to each client within visual range, for everyone who wears a cloak. The client would render them all, and while they could just not animate everyone else, it would look super odd, I think.

TaSheen

Elsonso wrote: »

The server tracks things, but would not render cloaks. It would communicate cape clothing info to each client within visual range, for everyone who wears a cloak. The client would render them all, and while they could just not animate everyone else, it would look super odd, I think.

Yeah, that would be very strange!

JKorr

Bat wrote: »

It seems you lot saying "no, they can't" are stuck in the past, to be honest.

They weren't as skilled animators back when they initially tried implementing capes, as they are today. They also weren't as skilled coders, world builders, et cetera. Look at some of the travelling merchants still using old walk animations and compare them to travelling merchants in newer zones. I for one am confident they have progressed far beyond those early days, as we've seen numerous examples of in terms of graphics in newer zones compared to older zones. It's almost as if they've honed their skills or something!

Speaking of "things that couldn't happen but happened", remember dragons? And all the arguments about how they could never?

Yeah.

The dragons, according to the lore, weren't around. That is why dragons couldn't happen. Notice they added "story reasons" for why dragons suddenly appeared? And only in one "because story reason" zone, not through all of Nirn.

The wanna-be Dovakhin who want dragon taxis/flying mounts are a whole other argument. Those no retcon of the lore could explain.

Elsonso

JKorr wrote: »

The dragons, according to the lore, weren't around. That is why dragons couldn't happen. Notice they added "story reasons" for why dragons suddenly appeared? And only in one "because story reason" zone, not through all of Nirn.

As I recall, ZOS had to convince Bethesda to allow Elsweyr to have dragons. Bethesda apparently holds the big red VETO stamp.

merpins

Capes aren't gonna happen for multiple reasons, as already confirmed by the dev team.

However I could see backpacks. There's already an outfit or two that gives a backpack, cosmetically. It'd be cool to have just the cosmetic backpack as an option, or even a backpack mythic.

JKorr

Elsonso wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

The dragons, according to the lore, weren't around. That is why dragons couldn't happen. Notice they added "story reasons" for why dragons suddenly appeared? And only in one "because story reason" zone, not through all of Nirn.

As I recall, ZOS had to convince Bethesda to allow Elsweyr to have dragons. Bethesda apparently holds the big red VETO stamp.

Thank the Divines they didn't resort to one explanation of why no dragons.... https://www.imperial-library.info/content/general-elder-scrolls-weaseling

If you've never read some of the stuff on the Imperial Library, you may want to take a toboggan ride down the kwama mine... There is a new [to me, I haven't checked it recently] section on "Cut Content". Catapulting diseased corpses, a secret dominion prison, cults, metaphysical ritual....who knows? Some of the ideas might show up in future releases.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

The dragons, according to the lore, weren't around. That is why dragons couldn't happen. Notice they added "story reasons" for why dragons suddenly appeared? And only in one "because story reason" zone, not through all of Nirn.

As I recall, ZOS had to convince Bethesda to allow Elsweyr to have dragons. Bethesda apparently holds the big red VETO stamp.

Thank the Divines they didn't resort to one explanation of why no dragons.... https://www.imperial-library.info/content/general-elder-scrolls-weaseling

If you've never read some of the stuff on the Imperial Library, you may want to take a toboggan ride down the kwama mine... There is a new [to me, I haven't checked it recently] section on "Cut Content". Catapulting diseased corpses, a secret dominion prison, cults, metaphysical ritual....who knows? Some of the ideas might show up in future releases.

Even though Imperial Library is probably THE best source of In-Game Lore & Books, it is also a store house of "Fan Fiction" from random TES Fans to the likes of Michael Kirkbride, Ted Petterson, and several others who were writers for Bethesda.
So sometimes a grain of salt is needed when reading from Imperial Library, and lets hope, if you have read some of MK's crazier writing, that these ideas DON"T show up ion the future!
Huzzah!!
PS... No Cloaks!!

SilverBride

Cloaks and capes don't make sense in combat as they would just get in the way and hinder movement. They are cosmetic, not functional, and only appropriate in a palace or other such areas for royalty to show off their status.