The Sorcerer changes are completely inadequate

StaticWave

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

[Quoted Post removed]

Curse is fine in a vacuum. But the problem with curse, imo, is that it adds a burst timer for the enemy to predict a sorcs offensive window.

You hit someone with it and they know exactly when you need to line up your burst which gives them the exact timing they need to counter it.

Add to that that curse does literally nothing worthwhile for a sorc while it is stuck to someone, until it does damage. So it just sits there for 3 seconds, telegraphing everything you are about to do next.

Curse is literally unblockable and undodgable. It doesn't even matter if you know the exact timing to counter it. You need a cleanse for that.

It actually baffles me how people can say Curse is bad or is predictable when it's literally designed to be a delayed burst - aka be predictable. All this complaint yet every single top tier magsorc slots Curse on their bar. You know why? Cause it's a darn good ability. You literally can't ask for a better single target delayed burst than Curse.

Curse is good finisher but its just not good enough in terms of damage.

Dealing 6-8k is a lot of damage for a delayed burst ability that's unblockable and undodgable. Go ahead and take off Curse if you think it's just not good enough. I want to see you kill people without it on a magsorc.

StaticWave

For the people who say Curse is bad and not worth slotting, please do the following:

1) Unslot Curse and slot Crushing Shock
2) Duel another decent magsorc using Curse

Please post your results here. I already know they will lose to the sorc with Curse but I just want the people who made that claim to understand why they're wrong.

AdamLAD

Why are we going on about curse. Is it a good ability yes. Does it need a buff not necessarily. There's two points about it, once you apply it, everyone knows exactly what's happening and can roll dodge or block everything else your going to do thus making the burst combo irrelevant. Plus it can be cleansed. The skill itself is good, the indriect side effects of it is not. There's far more pressing problems on a sorc such as sustain and defence than going on about curse. Why on earth is people focusing on the wrong areas.

Lucifer9th

if shield scale with magic damage and magicka it will not be the same scaling with only magicka lol (ez to understand), you will not double the size of your shield but you will have access to viable build without go to max magicka way

jaws343

AdamLAD wrote: »

Why are we going on about curse. Is it a good ability yes. Does it need a buff not necessarily. There's two points about it, once you apply it, everyone knows exactly what's happening and can roll dodge or block everything else your going to do thus making the burst combo irrelevant. Plus it can be cleansed. The skill itself is good, the indriect side effects of it is not. There's far more pressing problems on a sorc such as sustain and defence than going on about curse. Why on earth is people focusing on the wrong areas.

This was exactly my point. Great, my opponent took 6K damage from my curse. But they knew exactly when to counter the other 25K damage I needed to deal to them with my burst because just my act of casting curse on them gave them a countdown to when I needed to deal that burst.

I think curse is a problem for sorcs in that it is a telegraph for the entire damage kit and does little to provide any kind of sustained damage or debuff on a target. It's a big red flag of a skill, no matter how hard it hits.

Sorc biggest offensive problem is a need to lineup all damage into a tiny window of time. And curse just sells a sorc out. It's a problem, and it's part of the reason sorcs do very poorly in higher health and healing metas.

Nerhesi

I'd like to point out that recommendations by the community not being followed are not an indication of lack of competence. I think a community is good to provide you feedback for what is wrong, but usually a terrible source of advice for how to fix it (bias and such).

What I think is a cause for concern, is years-on-end seemingly complete ignorance of DKs overperforming. One of the best indicators of this goes all the way back to elsweyr, with constant nerfs to DoTs, and while leaving the best Dots (burning/poisoned) with DK combustion... untouched. That shows a really big blindspot.

MEBengalsFan2001

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

For the people who say Curse is bad and not worth slotting, please do the following:

1) Unslot Curse and slot Crushing Shock
2) Duel another decent magsorc using Curse

Please post your results here. I already know they will lose to the sorc with Curse but I just want the people who made that claim to understand why they're wrong.

I said it’s not good enough. Never said I will unslot it lol. Mag sorc doesn’t do enough damage anyway and you really think I would unslot a damage skill ?

Curse was awesome when frags had a cc. Because when my frag hit and my opponent was cc’d curse and fury would go off for a guaranteed kill.

Only OG mag sorcs would know what I just said.

Right now frags is not even a viable skill as crystal weapon is 10x better. So I wanted a buff to curse

PhoenixGrey

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

So now we combine mist form and streak to run away faster given rest of the toolkit is absolute trash

OBJnoob

I mean if you you time it right you can still crystal frag someone and have curse and fury insta kill them.

I get that people are tankier than they used to be and a mag stacking sorc doesn't have great damage.

But you make it sound like the stun will help somehow. The stun won't help with what you just described.

acastanza_ESO

OBJnoob wrote: »

I mean if you you time it right you can still crystal frag someone and have curse and fury insta kill them.

I wish we had the freedom to just be able to time it right. With the recently nerfed proc chance on frags, and how short the proc persists after we've been graced by RNJesus the ability to actually line up a burst is much worse than many other classes at this point.

PhoenixGrey

OBJnoob wrote: »

I mean if you you time it right you can still crystal frag someone and have curse and fury insta kill them.

I get that people are tankier than they used to be and a mag stacking sorc doesn't have great damage.

But you make it sound like the stun will help somehow. The stun won't help with what you just described.

It does and it opens up lot of options. Right now you can heal right up when curse hits you or heal yourself a second before

You can’t do that while cc’d.

OBJnoob

Right. But. If you time it RIGHT I said, lol. If the damage of frag and curse hitting simultaneously brings them into execute range and thusly kills them with an already applied endless fury then it doesn't matter if they're CCed or not.

Death: The Ultimate CC

So, I dunno, I'm probably just being petty harping on a small point. But you see what I'm saying?

Plus, again assuming an almost simultaneous landing of the three, if the person was going to try and roll dodge the endless or block-heal out of executes then they would also dodge or block the frag and therefore not be CCed anyway. So, at least in this scenario, it basically either lands or doesn't.

The stun matters not... Unless...
1) You plan on doing something else after they're CCed, which wasn't part of the scenario
2) You want an undodgeable and/or unblockable CC on frags as you said before... Which I still don't like the idea of.

@acastanza_ESO Your explanation does make sense to me. Its been a LONG time since I played a magsorc so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. But we don't want it to be too easy to instagib someone so, you know, we all have our hoops to jump through.

At both: Honestly I don't see why you're using frags. Seems like Curse, Crystal Weapon, and Overload are the main things I see. I was always kinda "meh" on the whole proccing frags thing anyway even back in the day when it was extremely easy to rack up kills from afar on a magsorc. It left me wanting to either use two spammables... One to proc the other... Or it left me using endless fury as a spammable just to try and proc it. Felt dumb. Of all the problems sorcs currently have it just doesn't seem to me that this is still one of them.

StaticWave

Every combo in the game is predictable so people can counter it.

If I cast Purifying Light, people know I’m going to Toppling Charge and Jab them. If I cast Blastbones or Sub Assault, people know I’m going to try Dizzying Swing and Dawnbreaker them. If I cast Noxious and Claw, people should expect an incoming fat Whip, etc.

It’s like saying water is water…Why point out the obvious weakness of EVERY delayed burst then ask for ZOS to make it harder for people to counter it? It makes no logical sense.

Also, why is everyone pressing so hard about not landing the combo after Curse? Just reapply it and play it like a pressure build lol.. That’s the beauty of magsorc. You have so much burst you can play like a pressure build and do just as well.

axi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

LittlePinkDot

Just delete the ward skill and give a burst heal

Glantir

I guess most people thing Sorc is strong because we can leech kills and get away..... Thats not my definition of being strong....

OBJnoob

Glantir wrote: »

I guess most people thing Sorc is strong because we can leech kills and get away..... Thats not my definition of being strong....

Not to single you out or anything... I kinda agree with your description... But...

There's dueling. There's open world PvP. And there's bgs. In two of those three, being able to leech kills is great. And I would even say the word "leech" is too derogatory a word. That word is for people that resent their own teammates securing kills. And that's kinda silly. Like I get it, I really do, but let's be bigger than that?

And to be honest my warden leeches kills too, if we're going to use that word. I don't find myself spending much time in 1v1s in bgs or cyrodiil. I entertain them when they happen... But I spend much more time running into groups of 3+ people that are already fighting and trying to slap them all with some dawnbreaker beetle goodness. If they all die great. If only the low health guy that was about to lose anyway dies... Also great. Got'm. Kill for me.

PhoenixGrey

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

axi

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

jaws343

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

Because the other morph is trash. That doesn't make streak the best stun the in game though, it just makes streak better than BoL.

axi

jaws343 wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

Because the other morph is trash. That doesn't make streak the best stun the in game though, it just makes streak better than BoL.

Is there any other large AoE , undodgable, unblockable stun in the game tied to a teleport ability?

ForumBully

I personally like Streak best because it takes the longest to get made unusable by lag. Any stun that has to be aimed at a player falls apart quickly when positioning goes to heck.
Eventually Streak also just turns into static electricity while the sorcs buzzes but doesn't move.

ForumBully

I'm looking forward to seeing Mist Form break on live...I wonder if lag makes players get all fuzzy like Pig Pen but not actually move

PhoenixGrey

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

That’s because the other morph was recently nerfed

axi

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

That’s because the other morph was recently nerfed

Barely anyone used it even before the nerf. Ever since ZoS created current version of the stun on streak that morph became a default for most of the sorcs.

Also what's Your point? What are You trying to disprove? Mist form won't have a stong stun that streak have and streak morph is used because of that strong stun.

PhoenixGrey

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

That’s because the other morph was recently nerfed

Barely anyone used it even before the nerf. Ever since ZoS created current version of the stun on streak that morph became a default for most of the sorcs.

Also what's Your point? What are You trying to disprove? Mist form won't have a stong stun that streak have and streak morph is used because of that strong stun.

No, I only used BOL before the nerf. So did a lot of other sorcs

If rune cage gets a buff I will never use streak for stun and lose my range advantage

axi

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

its time to just delete sorc already. or the game tho. entire class is dead now with this change

I mean atleast you get the sorc class identity now on every class with mistform being a streak equivalent

LMAO...Mist Form > Streak. It provides 300 weapon/spell damage that streak does not provide.

It doesn't provide the strongest stun in the game though. Streak real strenght currently is in the stun.

No

Yes. There is a reason barely anyone picks other morph.

That’s because the other morph was recently nerfed

Barely anyone used it even before the nerf. Ever since ZoS created current version of the stun on streak that morph became a default for most of the sorcs.

Also what's Your point? What are You trying to disprove? Mist form won't have a stong stun that streak have and streak morph is used because of that strong stun.

No, I only used BOL before the nerf. So did a lot of other sorcs

If rune cage gets a buff I will never use streak for stun and lose my range advantage

Still You and "lot of other sorcs" were in minority. Streak is the default morph since few years now. It's not a coincidence people call it streak even when saying about base ability or ball of lightning morph.

If rune cage gets a buff we can be back at rune cage meta which was one of the most broken metas in the game. Maybe ZoS will buff it but they will never make it completly reliable. With streak stun ZoS kinda found a middleground because they gave sorcs strong reliable stun but for the cost of not being able to stay at range and have complete control over the enemy.

And let me repeat myself. What's Your point? What are You trying to disprove? Mist form won't have a stong stun that streak have and streak morph is used because of that strong stun.

PhoenixGrey

OBJnoob wrote: »

At both: Honestly I don't see why you're using frags. Seems like Curse, Crystal Weapon, and Overload are the main things I see. I was always kinda "meh" on the whole proccing frags thing anyway even back in the day when it was extremely easy to rack up kills from afar on a magsorc. It left me wanting to either use two spammables... One to proc the other... Or it left me using endless fury as a spammable just to try and proc it. Felt dumb. Of all the problems sorcs currently have it just doesn't seem to me that this is still one of them.

That's the point

I dont use frag lol as crystal weapon is 10x better

my main dps skill is crystal weapon which is stam
my main heal is vigor which is again stam

Am I a mag sorc now ?

Without a burst heal or strong shields I am just a hybrid sorc with non existent defence

LittlePinkDot

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

At both: Honestly I don't see why you're using frags. Seems like Curse, Crystal Weapon, and Overload are the main things I see. I was always kinda "meh" on the whole proccing frags thing anyway even back in the day when it was extremely easy to rack up kills from afar on a magsorc. It left me wanting to either use two spammables... One to proc the other... Or it left me using endless fury as a spammable just to try and proc it. Felt dumb. Of all the problems sorcs currently have it just doesn't seem to me that this is still one of them.

That's the point

I dont use frag lol as crystal weapon is 10x better

my main dps skill is crystal weapon which is stam
my main heal is vigor which is again stam

Am I a mag sorc now ?

Without a burst heal or strong shields I am just a hybrid sorc with non existent defence

What's so good about crystal weapon?