The Sorcerer changes are completely inadequate

Melzo

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Now we will see sorcerers in close combat with 45 ka hp and with a mara set using shields for 11-12 thousand. Sorcerers will not know death... Unkillable sorcerer.. I saw such a sorcerer dueling on the test server. With maces from the dragonstar arena and mara. Unkillable.

That is a problem with Mara's and has nothing at all to do with Sorcerer's completely MIA defensive toolkit. The anemic buff to shields here is nothing at all. That Sorcerer was also probably not doing any damage at all. SorcTanks have always been a thing, the problem with them is that you have to give up literally everything else unlike every other class.

Now the meta of sorcerers using mara and maces from the dragonstar arena. You just need to redistribute points to health and put on a mythical ring for health, mana and stamina. You will not have outstanding damage, but it is enough to have good damage and very high survivability, allowing you to be the most survivable class in close combat. Mana shield should depend on mana. Twelve thousand protection gives in pvp. I restore health with a crit of 8-10 thousand. You can argue about this all you want, but the developers have made more tenacious sorcerers with huge health, thereby strengthening the already idiotic meta.

acastanza_ESO

Melzo wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

Now we will see sorcerers in close combat with 45 ka hp and with a mara set using shields for 11-12 thousand. Sorcerers will not know death... Unkillable sorcerer.. I saw such a sorcerer dueling on the test server. With maces from the dragonstar arena and mara. Unkillable.

That is a problem with Mara's and has nothing at all to do with Sorcerer's completely MIA defensive toolkit. The anemic buff to shields here is nothing at all. That Sorcerer was also probably not doing any damage at all. SorcTanks have always been a thing, the problem with them is that you have to give up literally everything else unlike every other class.

Now the meta of sorcerers using mara and maces from the dragonstar arena. You just need to redistribute points to health and put on a mythical ring for health, mana and stamina. You will not have outstanding damage, but it is enough to have good damage and very high survivability, allowing you to be the most survivable class in close combat. Mana shield should depend on mana. Twelve thousand protection gives in pvp. I restore health with a crit of 8-10 thousand. You can argue about this all you want, but the developers have made more tenacious sorcerers with huge health, thereby strengthening the already idiotic meta.

I agree that the Health scaling for Ward is a bad move, but every other class can also health stack and has access to Mara's balm with self-heals that are more effective that the Ward is. There is literally nothing there that Sorc can do that any other class can't already do better.

StaticWave

There are even more tricks with Streak btw. I've made a thread about it before. I'll copy it here:

1) Streak jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYDcRdZpFjI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfReDpSf5Go

2) Increase Streak range


3) Changing direction mid Streak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhXPk1PyU0M

4) Roll dodging mid Streak

RemoryAzure

Melzo wrote: »

Twelve thousand protection gives in pvp. I restore health with a crit of 8-10 thousand.

do u know that NB in some builds has a tooltip of 20k on his healthy offering no-cp? and 22k+ with cp. its 9k pvp heal no-cp and 10k+ with cp. non crit. 17.5k crit with shadow mundus on a khajit. same goes for a DK, less tooltip but on practice even more healing due to skill mechanics and class passive. so why exactly 12k shield (which doesnt save u from execute multipliers when ur health is not full btw) is op compared to 10k heals that can crit up to 18k?

KilianDermoth

AdamLAD wrote: »

Streak does not go in the direction of the camera. If your player is facing North but camera south it will streak north.

I play Sorc and it most of the time (except in lag situations) did teleport me into the direction I was looking at. This way I could streak in one direction, turn around and attack in the other direction.

Could it be that you are playing on console or with a controller and it differs here?

AdamLAD

KilianDermoth wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Streak does not go in the direction of the camera. If your player is facing North but camera south it will streak north.

I play Sorc and it most of the time (except in lag situations) did teleport me into the direction I was looking at. This way I could streak in one direction, turn around and attack in the other direction.

Could it be that you are playing on console or with a controller and it differs here?

KilianDermoth wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Streak does not go in the direction of the camera. If your player is facing North but camera south it will streak north.

I play Sorc and it most of the time (except in lag situations) did teleport me into the direction I was looking at. This way I could streak in one direction, turn around and attack in the other direction.

Could it be that you are playing on console or with a controller and it differs here?

It's when your rooted specifically. If not rooted it will streak in camera direction. If rooted it will streak character facing point

Seraphayel

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

AdamLAD

Sorc need to be brought up to the standard of what it used to be pre murkmire to compete in today's climate. In murkmire, damage was WAY lower and had way less HP and resistance so yes sorcerer was blowing people up. That simply wouldn't happen today, it would be a lot harder. Due to high HP and resistance and how much healing there is. Sorcerers damage hasn't changed THAT much in terms of potential from murkmire to now if we ran the same build, it's just everyone has so much HP and resistance and healing. Magicka Sorcerers identity is max magicka and shields bring that back. It would be balanced in today's climate

ForumBully

AdamLAD wrote: »

Sorc need to be brought up to the standard of what it used to be pre murkmire to compete in today's climate. In murkmire, damage was WAY lower and had way less HP and resistance so yes sorcerer was blowing people up. That simply wouldn't happen today, it would be a lot harder. Due to high HP and resistance and how much healing there is. Sorcerers damage hasn't changed THAT much in terms of potential from murkmire to now if we ran the same build, it's just everyone has so much HP and resistance and healing. Magicka Sorcerers identity is max magicka and shields bring that back. It would be balanced in today's climate

Yeah...shield stacking back in the day was pretty crazy, but everything is crazy now. As 20k Sorc with 30k shields is just gonna stalemate against some Maras DK

AdamLAD

The thing is sorcerers use max magicka to get there damage which is significantly weaker than raw damage. Every other class can have 6 to 7k damage and 30k HP at minimum with 30k resistance. That's WAY more obnoxious than what shields used to be. How many times have we seen people complain at how much HP people have. If we had pre murkmire shields, it would be balanced now 100%. Yes back then it was super annoying trying to burst down wards. Now ? It wouldn't be back then no one had anywhere near 7k weapon damage lol with all these damage % modifiers. Zenimax are catering to players who complained about shield stacking 5 years ago at the cost of sorcerer players today.

Pelanora

ForumBully wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

It's not enough, for sure, but it wasn't a nerf...so that's something

every class now has a streak while sorc got no buffs. this is a nerf to the ground

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

If the tide lifts boats but yours is tied low, yours won't rise, so it's now lower than the other boats, even if you've not actually moved it lower.... and sinking..

ForumBully

Pelanora wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

It's not enough, for sure, but it wasn't a nerf...so that's something

every class now has a streak while sorc got no buffs. this is a nerf to the ground

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

If the tide lifts boats but yours is tied low, yours won't rise, so it's now lower than the other boats, even if you've not actually moved it lower.... and sinking..

Then focus on raising the boat, not pointing out the other boats.

It just seems like the community only speaks in nerfs and maybe that's why the highest nail is always hit eventually rather than buffing others.

Katlefiya

ForumBully wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

It's not enough, for sure, but it wasn't a nerf...so that's something

every class now has a streak while sorc got no buffs. this is a nerf to the ground

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

If the tide lifts boats but yours is tied low, yours won't rise, so it's now lower than the other boats, even if you've not actually moved it lower.... and sinking..

Then focus on raising the boat, not pointing out the other boats..

But we do? This thread is literally titled "The Sorcerer changes are completely inadequate".

Chilly-McFreeze

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

AdamLAD

Currently, we have necro bombers. We have an abundance of nbs, dks, Wardens due to obvious reasons all are extremely strong. Templars still offer amazing value as tanks or healers in PvP. What does sorc provide ? Sub par tanking, sub par damage due to max mag scaling, sub par healing due to pets dying. Stam sorc has the same issue besides the damage. Weakest class in the came Currently in all areas. Necro however will be next patch but you could argue not, since it still offers being a tank which a sorc can't do nearly as well. But I still do think next patch it will be the weakest sorc being extremely close behind it

Seraphayel

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

acastanza_ESO

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

Sorcerer is, in fact, literally the bottom PVP class this patch (and with brief the exception of the Savage WW exploit/CW cheese builds we got for one patch - has been for quite some time). This is a hard fact that anyone who PVPs at any kind of reasonably high level agrees on.
Next patch necro might be taking that spot, but even then they still have much better survivability than Sorc.

AdamLAD

I've seen nightblades hit for 14k suprise attacks with capped out resistance, capped out speed with infinite sustain. Who can rolldodge indefinitely and cloak and shade. I'm not even going to mention what the incap and speccy bow hit for. Within a few seconds this player who had 34k hp just got deleted out of nowhere. Nb went onto the next target, happened again, then again and again. Why even is this allowed lol. Nb is absolutely bonkers. 3 hits to kill a 34k hp player. I wish my sorc could do that and have that survivability through complete damage mitigation due to its slipperyness

gariondavey

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

Sorcerer is, in fact, literally the bottom PVP class this patch (and with brief the exception of the Savage WW exploit/CW cheese builds we got for one patch - has been for quite some time). This is a hard fact that anyone who PVPs at any kind of reasonably high level agrees on.
Next patch necro might be taking that spot, but even then they still have much better survivability than Sorc.

This is not a hard fact, and they are not the bottom.

ForumBully

gariondavey wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

Sorcerer is, in fact, literally the bottom PVP class this patch (and with brief the exception of the Savage WW exploit/CW cheese builds we got for one patch - has been for quite some time). This is a hard fact that anyone who PVPs at any kind of reasonably high level agrees on.
Next patch necro might be taking that spot, but even then they still have much better survivability than Sorc.

This is not a hard fact, and they are not the bottom.

I would advocate for both, but present day I will still try to play my Sorc and I will not bring my Templar into PvP.

Seraphayel

gariondavey wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

Sorcerer is, in fact, literally the bottom PVP class this patch (and with brief the exception of the Savage WW exploit/CW cheese builds we got for one patch - has been for quite some time). This is a hard fact that anyone who PVPs at any kind of reasonably high level agrees on.
Next patch necro might be taking that spot, but even then they still have much better survivability than Sorc.

This is not a hard fact, and they are not the bottom.

It's a hard fact in the Sorcerer bubble and always has been, even when they were crazy overpowered. No idea, but for most Sorc players there is seemingly only the option of either being the #1 spec or inevitably being the weakest, if not.

StaticWave

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

That always depends on the opponent and the situation. Sorcs shouldn't be so dramatic and maybe then ZOS would listen. Not being top doesn't mean you're bottom.

Sorcerer is, in fact, literally the bottom PVP class this patch (and with brief the exception of the Savage WW exploit/CW cheese builds we got for one patch - has been for quite some time). This is a hard fact that anyone who PVPs at any kind of reasonably high level agrees on.
Next patch necro might be taking that spot, but even then they still have much better survivability than Sorc.

Magsorc is NOT the worst class.

StaticWave

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

WeylandLabs

StaticWave wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

StaticWave

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

He did ask which class is the weakest and rarest. It's ranged magicka nightblade. That spec is so bad nobody plays it except for a few OG mains.

acastanza_ESO

StaticWave wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

He did ask which class is the weakest and rarest. It's ranged magicka nightblade. That spec is so bad nobody plays it except for a few OG mains.

"Ranged Magicka Nightblade" is not a class it is a spec, MagBlade is a class, choosing to play it ranged is a choice you can make, one that unfortunately doesn't work well but all classes can't be expected to be good at all specs. MagSorc as a whole doesn't have good options.

StaticWave

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

He did ask which class is the weakest and rarest. It's ranged magicka nightblade. That spec is so bad nobody plays it except for a few OG mains.

"Ranged Magicka Nightblade" is not a class it is a spec, MagBlade is a class, choosing to play it ranged is a choice you can make, one that unfortunately doesn't work well but all classes can't be expected to be good at all specs. MagSorc as a whole doesn't have good options.

I can make the same counterargument as yours. Post hybridization, Shield Stacking Magsorc is no longer a class, but a spec. You literally have options to fix your spec's weakness (Vigor, stamina weapons for better stats if playing melee, etc.), so whether you decide to utilize them or not is your choice.

You can't possibly argue that Magsorc is the weakest class when it's actually just your old-school shield stacking spec that's underperforming. Magsorc's damage has never been bad, and hybridization gives access to heals to fix weaknesses. If you refuse to use them and simultaneously complain that the "class" is bad when it's just your specific shield stacking spec, then I think it's a bit disingenuous of an argument.

StaticWave

And as a class, Magsorc is NOT the worst. It seems like it because many players are running in hybrid builds and most Magsorcs are still stuck in 2015. Pitch a pure, non-hybrid Magsorc against other pure, non-hybrid mag classes and I can guarantee you Magsorc is at least B tier or higher.

A fairer comparison would be hybrid sorc vs other hybrid classes. Hybrid sorc is A LOT better than both pure stam and mag sorcs, and can go toe to toe with other hybrid classes with some slight struggle.

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

RemoryAzure wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

He did ask which class is the weakest and rarest. It's ranged magicka nightblade. That spec is so bad nobody plays it except for a few OG mains.

"Ranged Magicka Nightblade" is not a class it is a spec, MagBlade is a class, choosing to play it ranged is a choice you can make, one that unfortunately doesn't work well but all classes can't be expected to be good at all specs. MagSorc as a whole doesn't have good options.

I can make the same counterargument as yours. Post hybridization, Shield Stacking Magsorc is no longer a class, but a spec. You literally have options to fix your spec's weakness (Vigor, stamina weapons for better stats if playing melee, etc.), so whether you decide to utilize them or not is your choice.

You can't possibly argue that Magsorc is the weakest class when it's actually just your old-school shield stacking spec that's underperforming. Magsorc's damage has never been bad, and hybridization gives access to heals to fix weaknesses. If you refuse to use them and simultaneously complain that the "class" is bad when it's just your specific shield stacking spec, then I think it's a bit disingenuous of an argument.

There is no such thing as Mag sorc if you are trying to use an optimal setup

Mag Sorc’s main dps skill is crystal weapon

Mag Sorc’s main heal is vigor

Both are stamina skills

because frag is garbage and shield as well. Curse hits for as much as a force pulse

StaticWave

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I don't consider buffs to others to be nerfs to anything.

streak was the ONLY reason to play sorcerer.
sorc is the rarest and the weakest class in the game, after the patch there will be no more sorcs.
ofc, unless ZoS decide to buff it to be on the same level as other classes (for example +20% damage while holding lightning staff, major berserk on streak, major protection and major evasion on dark conversion, invulnerable pets and major+minor breach on haunting curse - this would be enough to place sorcerer #4 or even #3 in pvp class tier list)

Wow, drama much? Sorc is by no means the rarest or weakest class in the game and never has been. Like seriously, come on.

Which class is the rarest and which is the weakest currently?

Ranged magicka nightblade. Not Concealed Weapon NB. Pure ranged magicka nightblade with Swallow Soul for spammable.

I think he meant worst class abilities - because ZOS dev bias towards Stam Sorcs is blatantly shown.

He did ask which class is the weakest and rarest. It's ranged magicka nightblade. That spec is so bad nobody plays it except for a few OG mains.

"Ranged Magicka Nightblade" is not a class it is a spec, MagBlade is a class, choosing to play it ranged is a choice you can make, one that unfortunately doesn't work well but all classes can't be expected to be good at all specs. MagSorc as a whole doesn't have good options.

I can make the same counterargument as yours. Post hybridization, Shield Stacking Magsorc is no longer a class, but a spec. You literally have options to fix your spec's weakness (Vigor, stamina weapons for better stats if playing melee, etc.), so whether you decide to utilize them or not is your choice.

You can't possibly argue that Magsorc is the weakest class when it's actually just your old-school shield stacking spec that's underperforming. Magsorc's damage has never been bad, and hybridization gives access to heals to fix weaknesses. If you refuse to use them and simultaneously complain that the "class" is bad when it's just your specific shield stacking spec, then I think it's a bit disingenuous of an argument.

There is no such thing as Mag sorc if you are trying to use an optimal setup

Mag Sorc’s main dps skill is crystal weapon

Mag Sorc’s main heal is vigor

Both are stamina skills

because frag is garbage and shield as well. Curse hits for as much as a force pulse

It's mathematically impossible for Curse to hits for as much as force pulse though. Curse's tooltip is equivalent to Dizzying Swing. I use Curse on my 2h stamsorc and both of them deal the same amount of damage.

Yes, both are stamina skills, just like how most stamina players are now using magicka heals. Hybridization is where its at, and once we get a class burst heal, sorc will be fine.