Winged Twilight Rant

Auldwulfe

AlienSlof wrote: »

Honestly, how difficult could it be just to add a toggle so other players can turn off combat pets? A toggle doesn't interfere with those who like seeing them, and gives those who don't some measure of control over the flappy screen spam.

I hate the flappy things with a passion, both combat and non-combat ones. It's just endless, and a jaunt through town is becoming truly horrendous. I hate the things in dungeons and trials too. I often play healer and more often than not I have to just hope my heals are actually hitting the group, as all I can see in my view is a half-dozen flapping flaps.

And whatever happened to the 'special' category for pets? One bear recolour only. There's an untapped opportunity to make some cash if ever there was one.

Biggest issue is that U35 shoved Sorcs into being zookeepers.
Without the pets, you lose enough DPS to not be competitive.... in PVP, it's worse, as they are fragile, and you get locked into an interruptible summoning, trying to get them back.

The clanfear would be a decent option, if;
A: it's heal was on par with the matron, and
B: it wasn't even more fragile, than the matron....

For many of us sorcs.... it is annoying, too... but it is our only real option for a burst heal that we can also use to help our team... yes, Resolving Vigor is a thing... except it is self only, AND does not cover the DPS loss of the pets.
Echoing Vigor also doesn't cover the DPS loss... and it's NOT a burst heal .... so inadequate for filling in.

If you don't like the pets... and trust me, a lot of sorcs, don't either.... then get on ZOS about why they buffed Daedric Prey.... that was the final nail in the coffin..... even the much maligned oakensoul build gets a large chunk of it's DPS from that combo.... Daedric Prey, and the Pets.

And thanks to the way that ZOS is seeing sorcs..... you either travel with your zoo, or you are less effective than a low level 2nd edition bard, making pretty bubbles, while you get cut down.... the "all powerful" silence that ZOS says is our role, is basically making a bubble that stamina skills ignore, and that can be ignored by magicka, if cast outside the bubble... most of which are ranged, anyways...

Or, we can make our little tiny bubble shield, and hope it isn't bashed down too quickly.......maybe we'll get enough time to summon a pet to help.....
Sorc has always been a popular class.... it's sad that it is now so pigeon holed into being a zookeeper.

Auldwulfe

AlienSlof

Oh, I play sorcerers as well, as Oakensoul with just the scamp. I absolutely refuse to use the flapper as it gets in MY way as well as everyone else's. Thankfully, that's no big issue as I rarely do end-game hard mode stuff any more. Once I'm done with combat, the scamp - and bear if I'm on a warden - are de-summoned because they just get in my way.

However, a toggle on or off doesn't affect any sorcerers doing damage, it would just mean I wouldn't have my view filled with flapping wings and huge bears.

Or, they could use that 'special' category and make us some options for smaller pets, or more suitably themed pets.

Auldwulfe

AlienSlof wrote: »

Oh, I play sorcerers as well, as Oakensoul with just the scamp. I absolutely refuse to use the flapper as it gets in MY way as well as everyone else's. Thankfully, that's no big issue as I rarely do end-game hard mode stuff any more. Once I'm done with combat, the scamp - and bear if I'm on a warden - are de-summoned because they just get in my way.

However, a toggle on or off doesn't affect any sorcerers doing damage, it would just mean I wouldn't have my view filled with flapping wings and huge bears.

Or, they could use that 'special' category and make us some options for smaller pets, or more suitably themed pets.

Most sorcs would approve of those --- I have also asked for a smaller matron... and it's been ignored.
Until the sorc gets anything as good as the zookeeper build... though, all you are going to see is flapping wings..... it has become the best build in sorc....

It's become no different than the Warden's who want a staff build.... you can go with lightning or flame.... but then, you are choosing to do less damage..... as designed, the ice staff will out perform ... with sorc, you can choose to go without pets, as a magicka sorc.... but the pet build will out perform.

Many of us don't like it, at all... but I am also tired of my sorc, as he was my first character, and did all the researches, living in a craft hall, and never seeing the light of day.


Auldwulfe

LalMirchi

I ran a magic sorcerer as my first attempt at anything in this game.

Slowly but inexorably one grew tired of having to run pets while being "tied" to Necropotence set though I found other sets later but none that worked so good with pets.

Let me emphatically say the the Twilight Matriarch is a visual blight on the my poor eyes, who knows what she looks like in others eyes but the size and the floppy flappiness are not pretty to me, never were. (Perhaps it's just the frequency of the flap?). Nothing against the trusty Clanfear or the electric G*llum.

I tried out the new armoury making a stamsorc that's quite enjoyable atm.

Marcus684

LalMirchi wrote: »

I ran a magic sorcerer as my first attempt at anything in this game.

Slowly but inexorably one grew tired of having to run pets while being "tied" to Necropotence set though I found other sets later but none that worked so good with pets.

Let me emphatically say the the Twilight Matriarch is a visual blight on the my poor eyes, who knows what she looks like in others eyes but the size and the floppy flappiness are not pretty to me, never were. (Perhaps it's just the frequency of the flap?). Nothing against the trusty Clanfear or the electric G*llum.

I tried out the new armoury making a stamsorc that's quite enjoyable atm.

For me, the issue is the size of the flappy and the fact that it never stops flapping! If the damn thing were smaller and it would land and stop flapping I could cope with it, but as it is I just can't.

Auldwulfe

Marcus684 wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

I ran a magic sorcerer as my first attempt at anything in this game.

Slowly but inexorably one grew tired of having to run pets while being "tied" to Necropotence set though I found other sets later but none that worked so good with pets.

Let me emphatically say the the Twilight Matriarch is a visual blight on the my poor eyes, who knows what she looks like in others eyes but the size and the floppy flappiness are not pretty to me, never were. (Perhaps it's just the frequency of the flap?). Nothing against the trusty Clanfear or the electric G*llum.

I tried out the new armoury making a stamsorc that's quite enjoyable atm.

For me, the issue is the size of the flappy and the fact that it never stops flapping! If the damn thing were smaller and it would land and stop flapping I could cope with it, but as it is I just can't.

I would, absolutely, love for it to be the size of the undead dragon pet, or the cliff racer pet..... that would work fine...... if we have to have it.

I would dearly love for it to be an actual skill..... burst heal, instead of having to have the pet out... give sorcs a skill on the pet line that channels daedric energy through the sorc... you have a purple haze, sort of like Ember gives.... and it gives you the DPS that the matron would give, along with a heal.. with it being limited to not being able to be slotted if a matron is slotted....

Just taking the pets away from sorcs, though, would destroy what is left of their identity...... they are not spell casters, as any fool can pick up a branch and wiggle it to get spells in ESO.......... and their lightning spells have already been nerfed to tickles.... with the rest being colored bubbles..... this is pretty much what they have left.

Auldwulfe

SilverBride

Just give us a toggle to turn off other player's pets. That won't affect anyone else an no one will even know who is using it or not. At the very least let us completely hide them in town.

Auldwulfe

SilverBride wrote: »

Just give us a toggle to turn off other player's pets. That won't affect anyone else an no one will even know who is using it or not. At the very least let us completely hide them in town.

I would happily agree with that, too ... or allow them to just disappear when in town, same as our cosmetic pets and companions disappear in Cyrodiil, or our houses... reappearing when we leave.

Auldwulfe

Turtle_Bot

Expect to see a whole lot more of the flappy flappys fluttering around towns/banks/wayshrines/crafting stations next patch.

With Mara's balm getting substantially nerfed next patch (cooldown on the cleanse/burst heal proc is getting doubled from 15s to 30s), the few sorcs that were starting to appear in Cyro again, thanks to Mara's carrying their healing enough that the improved shields were usable again, will be right back to their crafting table homes again.

Until the mandatory defensive tool (burst heal) is untied from the matriarch, the flappys will never disappear. Having a proper heal is just too important in any game that has combat.
It doesn't help that the pets have become the only way to play the class ever since U35 completely gutted every other option on sorc (even stamsorcs were running pets + prey).

Anifaas

Summoning daedric pets in towns should get the same treatment as summoning undead minions. That would solve the problem.

BlueRaven

Anifaas wrote: »

Summoning daedric pets in towns should get the same treatment as summoning undead minions. That would solve the problem.

Also just a reminder to all deadric pets are not unlawful at this point in the Elder Scrolls timeline. There are several quests involving deadric creatures in towns in the vanilla areas. There is even at least one vendor who is a deadric entity located inside a town as well.

Marcus684

BlueRaven wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

Summoning daedric pets in towns should get the same treatment as summoning undead minions. That would solve the problem.

Also just a reminder to all deadric pets are not unlawful at this point in the Elder Scrolls timeline. There are several quests involving deadric creatures in towns in the vanilla areas. There is even at least one vendor who is a deadric entity located inside a town as well.

Maybe the vendor has permission from the city for it. I'd love to see guards run up to the sorc that summons their pet, "Hey! You gotta a permit for that thing?"

BlueRaven

Marcus684 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

Summoning daedric pets in towns should get the same treatment as summoning undead minions. That would solve the problem.

Also just a reminder to all deadric pets are not unlawful at this point in the Elder Scrolls timeline. There are several quests involving deadric creatures in towns in the vanilla areas. There is even at least one vendor who is a deadric entity located inside a town as well.

Maybe the vendor has permission from the city for it. I'd love to see guards run up to the sorc that summons their pet, "Hey! You gotta a permit for that thing?"

In Auridon you rescue (retrieve) a scamp for a mage in Skywatch. A mage who displays it outdoors openly to the public upon quest completion.

The main quest has Abnur Tharn “discretely” contacts the player with a scamp in a major town (determined by faction) and no guard bats an eye.

Wrothgar has huge shrines to Malacath.

In the the story line of Stormhaven it is revealed that the king himself allows the open worship of Azura.

And the vendor, to which I was referring to, is in Craglorn.

••••

The relationship between the citizens of nirn and the deadric princes is complicated. I think the main issue on these forums is that many posters appear to correlate deadric creatures with Cold Harbour, and I don’t think the lore really establishes where sorcs get their pets from.
This vagueness might be for RP purposes so a player can claim to be a worshipper of Meridia or something.
It’s also possible that the sorc gets their creatures from a minor prince from one of the lesser planes.

Anyway, at this point in Elder Scrolls history summoning deadric creatures is not an automatic crime in upon itself.

I_killed_Vivec

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I would dearly love for it to be an actual skill..... burst heal, instead of having to have the pet out... give sorcs a skill on the pet line that channels daedric energy through the sorc... you have a purple haze, sort of like Ember gives.... and it gives you the DPS that the matron would give, along with a heal..

Any other classes that have a single skill giving burst multi-player heals and permanent DPS for free?

No wonder the Oakensorc, HA lighting staff, pet build (also known as "left mouse button" build) is so popular

thedocbwarren

Must admit I wish pets were not visible in cities. Too many of them and it's annoying. Winged pets especially. I assume it's so people can show them off and zos will hope you buy something. Obviously there are ways to craft without the city, which I do as well, just not as convenient.

SilverBride

[snip]

That isn't how it reads to me.

The OP makes a suggestion that would remove something that a lot of other players, even some Sorcerer's themselves, find irritating and that takes away from their enjoyment of the game.

[removed quote]

VampirateV

@ZOS_Kevin

This thread might seem like it's addressing a cosmetic preference, but I'd like to point something out, as a player with accessibility needs. The link between ADHD and gaming has been well established, as gaming is one of top preferred dopamine suppliers for folks like us. A huge chunk of your playerbase is likely neurodivergent, even if only dealing with sensory issues. And fyi, most people with ADHD have at least one sensory issue. I, for one, struggle with the flappies for multiple reasons:

- In group content, especially during stacking mechs, the birds are just big enough and at just wrong height to obstruct everyone else's view of enemies. We literally just end up using muscle memory for our rotations and just hope that it's working. Being unable to see the boss and just mashing buttons is seriously immersion breaking and reduces the satisfaction of the win.

- It isn't just about the boss; the birds also get in the way when trying to target a player to resurrect. Literally took me three tries to res someone in a trial a couple days ago, because someone's stupid bird kept flapping around me and interrupting my targeting.

- In any content, the bird is eye-catching, which isn't necessarily a good thing for people who have difficulty processing too many mobile visual elements. For instance, I might have a plan to do my writs, turn in a quest in my queue, and run surveys. First task goes fine until I go to turn in writs, and find the dropoff covered in birds, bears, and companions. The area is so visually cluttered, that by the time I finish turning in my writs, I've forgotten (again) to turn that one quest in afterward. Because my brain struggles to determine which visuals are most relevant at any moment, I have to devote conscious attention to my current task, which ends up distracting from what I had planned. This is a very common and frustrating type of issue for neurodivergent folk.

- The combo of multiple wings flapping at different rhythms and their asynchronous sounds is an absolute nightmare for sensory processing.

- Trying to interact with NPCs in towns (bankers, merchants, etc.) is an exercise in frustration when there's more than two birds nearby and it's a busy time on the server

I can only speak for myself of course, but if you read between the lines of most of the comments here, it's clear that a LOT of people struggle with the accessibility of the game due to the twilight's design. Dyslexia is another common disorder that affects visual processing; my husband wanted to play, but the motion and lighting/coloring of the birds was too triggering for his eyes and ended up giving him a headache. I'm not even touching on the likelihood of visually impaired and/or epileptic players having their own challenges.

If you want your game to be accessible- which in turn broadens your customer base- there has to be genuine consideration taken for what we need. Tbh I'm still dismayed that an accessibility menu was finally created, but it doesn't have what I would consider to be a basic feature: ability to enlarge the text in our Options menu, inventory, quest dialogues, HUD chat, etc. The point is, you have a lot of current and potential customers who want to play your game, but can't really commit because certain design elements make the game challenging in an unfun way. I know you all must have a UX side, and it would be greatly appreciated by many of us if we could submit accessibility suggestions/needs.

AnduinTryggva

I really cannot understand why we still have this nuisance in towns and even worse inside houses. They should simply disappear or made invisible to all other players more generally. They are just visual pollution.