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One bar heavy attack builds attract hate ?

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  • CoachPower
    CoachPower
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Heelie wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    One bar builds are often NOT self-limiting or selfish, on the contrary, they expand what that player is capable of providing to a group. There are people who use to them to overcome physical limitations, for example.

    I did the highest vHoF, vMoL, vAS , vCR , vAA , vHRC, and vSO scores recorded at the time, "world record". At the time this were all the trials that were out. Some of them lasted 3 patch cycles, just playing with one hand. The idea that One Bar builds are for people that are dissabled or physically limited is wrong. It's mean to people with dissabilities to tell them that they can't play like anyone else.

    That's great for you, sincerely. That's really fantastic. But everyone's experience with disability is different. I play with some people who I know IRL, one of whom is disabled. He couldn't do a regular build and he tried for a very long time. He had help from some very good players. He just couldn't do it. It was too painful. The heavy attack build has greatly increased not only his enjoyment of the game, but his DPS numbers and types of content he can do in this game.

    He'd be limiting himself using something else. He's not interested in trial content so it's whatever. But he's happy to be able to do world bosses by himself and to be able to run vet dungeons without feeling like he's being carried.

    Pretty accurate tbh. I fully agree with what you said. And the same guy you're replying to is the same guy that made a video basically trashing Oakensoul, and in the video makes quite a few hilarious and contradictory "points".
    DC-EU-PC

    Coach-Power - Magicka Sorcerer with mediocre DPS - PvP/PvE
    Eternal-Envy - Magicka Templar - DD
    -Sookie Northman - Magicka Nightblade - DD
    Eva the Whipmistress - Magicka Dragonknight - DD
    Having-A-Bad-Time - Magicka Templar - Healer
    Lady Mormont - Stamina Dragonknight - Tank
  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    NeKryXe wrote: »
    I never seen anything like that, but I only started to use one bar heavy attack builds since a few weeks ago.

    I never cared for it because I wasn't aware that it could be good and I thought that I wouldn't enjoy playing an heavy attack build. Then I tried one on my necromancer and I started to enjoy that class for the first time. Now I have 4 characters with heavy attacks builds and I'm even starting to prefer to play those characters. I never saw anyone complaining, but I mostly do dungeons with random players and usually I end up doing above 70% of the damage with my heavy attack builds. I'm enjoying, I'm doing something for the group, so... who cares?

    I fully agree. My Necro was sitting for months without use... U35 trashing Templar made me step away from the game. Came back and decided to try Necro again. Then decided to try the Oakensoul ring and found the lack of stress constantly swapping bars (or trying to when many times it would fail to actually swap) while also focusing on the action... was such a relief with Oakensoul. So much so I decided to switch all my alt characters to 1-bar builds. Not necessarily HA focused builds, but 1-bar builds. I find myself enjoying the game more without the added stress of trying to juggle two bars and ten skills.
    CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~
  • JJMaxx1980
    JJMaxx1980
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    shaxigamingeb17_ESO wrote: »
    The trial thing may or may not be a Cloudrest thing thing if that's what you're looking to do. There is a mechanic on one of the side bosses that'll kill your group unless you barswap. That's why people don't want people who can't do anything but Oakensoul builds in their Cloudrest groups and see it as very selfish. For this reason, the trial guild I'm in recently decided to not accept parses with Oakensoul for DPS tags because it's too much work to make sure nobody runs it in Cloudrest every time.

    This has been proven to be untrue. If you do not have a weapon slotted on your backbar, you will not kill everyone in Cloudrest. ZOS specifically coded it that way.

  • Heelie
    Heelie
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    CoachPower wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Heelie wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    One bar builds are often NOT self-limiting or selfish, on the contrary, they expand what that player is capable of providing to a group. There are people who use to them to overcome physical limitations, for example.

    I did the highest vHoF, vMoL, vAS , vCR , vAA , vHRC, and vSO scores recorded at the time, "world record". At the time this were all the trials that were out. Some of them lasted 3 patch cycles, just playing with one hand. The idea that One Bar builds are for people that are dissabled or physically limited is wrong. It's mean to people with dissabilities to tell them that they can't play like anyone else.

    That's great for you, sincerely. That's really fantastic. But everyone's experience with disability is different. I play with some people who I know IRL, one of whom is disabled. He couldn't do a regular build and he tried for a very long time. He had help from some very good players. He just couldn't do it. It was too painful. The heavy attack build has greatly increased not only his enjoyment of the game, but his DPS numbers and types of content he can do in this game.

    He'd be limiting himself using something else. He's not interested in trial content so it's whatever. But he's happy to be able to do world bosses by himself and to be able to run vet dungeons without feeling like he's being carried.

    Pretty accurate tbh. I fully agree with what you said. And the same guy you're replying to is the same guy that made a video basically trashing Oakensoul, and in the video makes quite a few hilarious and contradictory "points".

    Great to know that people still hate watch my videos.
    Most OwOrated healer of all time
  • Jeejee
    Jeejee
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    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    They should nerf all DPS not only HA. Cuz, in my healer i cant make 70k its not fair. Just nerf DPS please

    And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?

    Don't worry soon there Will prolly be a mythic item for healers that does 70k dps and heals your group while you do nothing but hold down the left mouse button
    Edited by Jeejee on January 18, 2023 2:06PM
  • Lumenn
    Lumenn
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    Jeejee wrote: »
    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    They should nerf all DPS not only HA. Cuz, in my healer i cant make 70k its not fair. Just nerf DPS please

    And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?

    Don't worry soon there Will prolly be a mythic item for healers that does 70k dps and heals your group while you do nothing but hold down the left mouse button

    As one of the ones who HAS practiced and gotten "the dps" I'm PERFECTLY fine with it. Doesn't bother me personally one bit that I spent hrs perfecting a rotation and someone else doesn't have to suffer like I did. It's great progress!

    As someone who has physical limitations (and the longer I play the more pain involved) I'm THRILLED with it.

    And as someone who's always thought the endgame being gated behind great ping and a button mashing, twitch trigger, finger WALTZ was ridiculous and BORING I'm absolutely ECSTATIC that another option is out there. Maybe not as effective(especially if, as people consistently (purposely?) mislead by saying "one button" build) But still more options are ALWAYS good.


    Unless a monopoly is of course, the goal.

  • blue_peaceful_Manticore
    blue_peaceful_Manticore
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    Jeejee wrote: »
    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    They should nerf all DPS not only HA. Cuz, in my healer i cant make 70k its not fair. Just nerf DPS please

    And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?

    Don't worry soon there Will prolly be a mythic item for healers that does 70k dps and heals your group while you do nothing but hold down the left mouse button

    But ESO is a game for only some players or should be to all? You have time to practice, i have time to pratice, but many dont have. Why they should do less damage only cuz you have time to practice and they dont?
    Why should i have less damge, cuz i cant have same agility in fingers as you? And btw, All about rotation make use of bug. Animation cancel is one bug. Why should we (one bar players), have less damage then who make bug abuse?!

    but anyway... you dont like 1bar? great. Play with 2!!! Or you're other player who dont care at all about game and all you care about is someway to tell other: "I have more 40k damage then you".... and ?! If you have 40k more then me.... why do i care? lol! Be happy mate. Play your game, and join with others like you.

    I play with all who dont care about one bar or 2 bars. What's the problem?!
  • CGPsaint
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    All of the arguments that I'm seeing here basically boil down to people being upset that other people don't have to spent 24/7 playing the game and humping target dummies all day long in order to enjoy a video game. One bar/HA builds are in a good place and if you don't want to play with people who use those builds, then don't. It's really that simple.
  • Jeejee
    Jeejee
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    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    They should nerf all DPS not only HA. Cuz, in my healer i cant make 70k its not fair. Just nerf DPS please

    And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?

    Don't worry soon there Will prolly be a mythic item for healers that does 70k dps and heals your group while you do nothing but hold down the left mouse button

    But ESO is a game for only some players or should be to all? You have time to practice, i have time to pratice, but many dont have. Why they should do less damage only cuz you have time to practice and they dont?
    Why should i have less damge, cuz i cant have same agility in fingers as you? And btw, All about rotation make use of bug. Animation cancel is one bug. Why should we (one bar players), have less damage then who make bug abuse?!

    but anyway... you dont like 1bar? great. Play with 2!!! Or you're other player who dont care at all about game and all you care about is someway to tell other: "I have more 40k damage then you".... and ?! If you have 40k more then me.... why do i care? lol! Be happy mate. Play your game, and join with others like you.

    I play with all who dont care about one bar or 2 bars. What's the problem?!

    Lmao the "bug" that's been in game for almost 10 years and is given as a tip during loading screens :D

    By the logic that some people don't have time to practice and should therefore be rewarded with a build that needs no practice, yeah I don't have time to play dungeons or trials so I deserve to get all the rewards from those mailed to me for free with no effort spent, otherwise unfair because I don't have time
  • blue_peaceful_Manticore
    blue_peaceful_Manticore
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    Jeejee wrote: »
    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    EnKor wrote: »
    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    They should nerf all DPS not only HA. Cuz, in my healer i cant make 70k its not fair. Just nerf DPS please

    And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?

    Don't worry soon there Will prolly be a mythic item for healers that does 70k dps and heals your group while you do nothing but hold down the left mouse button

    But ESO is a game for only some players or should be to all? You have time to practice, i have time to pratice, but many dont have. Why they should do less damage only cuz you have time to practice and they dont?
    Why should i have less damge, cuz i cant have same agility in fingers as you? And btw, All about rotation make use of bug. Animation cancel is one bug. Why should we (one bar players), have less damage then who make bug abuse?!

    but anyway... you dont like 1bar? great. Play with 2!!! Or you're other player who dont care at all about game and all you care about is someway to tell other: "I have more 40k damage then you".... and ?! If you have 40k more then me.... why do i care? lol! Be happy mate. Play your game, and join with others like you.

    I play with all who dont care about one bar or 2 bars. What's the problem?!

    Lmao the "bug" that's been in game for almost 10 years and is given as a tip during loading screens :D

    By the logic that some people don't have time to practice and should therefore be rewarded with a build that needs no practice, yeah I don't have time to play dungeons or trials so I deserve to get all the rewards from those mailed to me for free with no effort spent, otherwise unfair because I don't have time

    Why onebar player with 100k in dummy are bad for same trial\Dungeon as you are in?
    (as long all in there, know mechs and avoid AOE and stay in pack etc...)
    Edited by blue_peaceful_Manticore on January 18, 2023 5:03PM
  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    Why onebar player with 100k in dummy are bad for same trial\Dungeon as you are in?

    Why do you care? If people don't want to play with you for whatever reason, it is their decision. Why do you think that other people are obliged to accept you into their group when you are openly accusing them of bug abuse? "Play how you want" applies to everyone, not just to you when it fits your agenda.
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
  • CrashTest
    CrashTest
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    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    I think HA builds are fine where they are bc it opens up vet trials to more players.

    Also, HA builds aren't used only by disabled or elderly players. A lot of dps who aren't disabled or elderly simply can't get the hang of a traditional 2 bar light attack rotation no matter how long they practice, so it's a good thing that they have another option to get into vet trials besides learning to tank or heal, which sucks if your fav thing is dps.
    Edited by CrashTest on January 18, 2023 5:20PM
  • blue_peaceful_Manticore
    blue_peaceful_Manticore
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    thorwyn wrote: »
    Why onebar player with 100k in dummy are bad for same trial\Dungeon as you are in?

    Why do you care? If people don't want to play with you for whatever reason, it is their decision. Why do you think that other people are obliged to accept you into their group when you are openly accusing them of bug abuse? "Play how you want" applies to everyone, not just to you when it fits your agenda.

    and i 100% agree with you.
    There's alot of people i avoid to play with for many reasons too. And i have ignore them, or i know who they are and i have my list :P
    But that is not a reply for this kind of topic. Love\hate HA. I wanna understand, why people hate so much HA users. Thats all.
    Like i say, if one HA player have 100k in dummy and know mechs why people hate him?!
  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    Hate and love... such strong words. There is a large area between the two extremes love/hate and it's not helpful to reduce the discussion to those extremes. Ironically, when you are reading those 5 pages of comments, you will find quite an amount of "hate", spite, disdain towards 2 bar users. And your signature does not really help to support your claim that you "don't care" about weaving either.

    I think the amount of people who really "hate" HA players is pretty small. In my case: I certainly do not "hate" HA users or oakensoul users. I couldn't care less what other people are playing in PUG and random dungeons. If they are happy with what they are doing, fine!
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.
    Edited by thorwyn on January 18, 2023 6:03PM
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
  • JJMaxx1980
    JJMaxx1980
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    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.

    No only that but he's assuming a one-bar HA build precludes a group-friendly ultimate.

    Heck I even slot Twilight Matriarch in my one-bar magsorc build which is one of the best "oh shoot" heals in the game so I bring off-heals to groups which is probably much more valuable than anything a non-HA buffing set gives.
  • Heelie
    Heelie
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    Iselin wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.

    No only that but he's assuming a one-bar HA build precludes a group-friendly ultimate.

    Heck I even slot Twilight Matriarch in my one-bar magsorc build which is one of the best "oh shoot" heals in the game so I bring off-heals to groups which is probably much more valuable than anything a non-HA buffing set gives.

    You think a burst heal once in a while is more than 15% crit damage?
    Most OwOrated healer of all time
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    Heelie wrote: »
    Iselin wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.

    No only that but he's assuming a one-bar HA build precludes a group-friendly ultimate.

    Heck I even slot Twilight Matriarch in my one-bar magsorc build which is one of the best "oh shoot" heals in the game so I bring off-heals to groups which is probably much more valuable than anything a non-HA buffing set gives.

    You think a burst heal once in a while is more than 15% crit damage?

    Dead players don't crit.
  • Heelie
    Heelie
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    Iselin wrote: »
    Heelie wrote: »
    Iselin wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.

    No only that but he's assuming a one-bar HA build precludes a group-friendly ultimate.

    Heck I even slot Twilight Matriarch in my one-bar magsorc build which is one of the best "oh shoot" heals in the game so I bring off-heals to groups which is probably much more valuable than anything a non-HA buffing set gives.

    You think a burst heal once in a while is more than 15% crit damage?

    Dead players don't crit.

    dead bosses don't do damage
    Most OwOrated healer of all time
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    Heelie wrote: »
    Iselin wrote: »
    Heelie wrote: »
    Iselin wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    thorwyn wrote: »
    However, I think it is disrespectful to use oakensoul in organized group play. Healers and tanks are making an effort to gear up properly, coordinate their sets and provide group buffs with decent uptimes and ignoring that effort is pretty rude in my books. That's why I prefer to avoid oakensoul users in my progress groups.

    Once again you state this as a fact with absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up. We’re not talking about support roles, HA builds are damage dealers, and as such are there to be supported, not to support. So please either explain what you are talking about or stop excluding people from your groups based off a false assumption.

    No only that but he's assuming a one-bar HA build precludes a group-friendly ultimate.

    Heck I even slot Twilight Matriarch in my one-bar magsorc build which is one of the best "oh shoot" heals in the game so I bring off-heals to groups which is probably much more valuable than anything a non-HA buffing set gives.

    You think a burst heal once in a while is more than 15% crit damage?

    Dead players don't crit.

    dead bosses don't do damage

    A DPS-fest player and a group player walk into a bar...
  • Hyperdeathstalker
    Hyperdeathstalker
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    Some people will never accept oakensoul or heavy attack builds , ive one barred on a tank , and a healer and comepleted all vet dungeons and im gonna one bar a dps aswell , let people be salty , they know one bar / heavy attack builds took over the general player base. They cant accept change or anything new. If they want be crybabies about it let em cry the one bar heavy attack builds will just keep eating into their already minimal dps gains from double barring

    105k is possible already the elite gap is closing my friends
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Since you seem so knowledgeable on one-bar builds, perhaps you could enlighten us on what ‘group utility’ a standard Magicka Sorcerer brings that a One Bar MagSorc doesn’t? So as a trial leader, you bring your four support roles which bring their buffs to help the group, then you bring maybe an EC Cro? A DK Zens? Then what? You’ve got 6 more DPS slots to fill. Last I checked the meta MagSorc build is what, Whorl/Nirn? Relequen? Pretty sure those sets only help the Sorc player and offer nothing to help ‘the group’. Oh well, you said his backbar abilities help the group? What skill? Elemental Weapon? Crystal Frags? Mages Wrath?

    You bring up another important point: Sorcerer is not necessary since the hybridization update, we simply get the minor savagery from a Nightblade healer and do not need prophecy.

    For those that do still choose to bring Sorcerers, their responsibilities include:
    - Any Dark Magic skill every 20s (so builds like Magden or Magplar don't need to double bar camo hunter)
    - Storm Atronach on cooldown for group Major Berserk synergy (which means they also need to cast Daedric Prey every 6s or their ult becomes weak)
    - Lightning Flood every 10s for the Conduit synergy, dealing damage and helping with Alkosh uptime
    - Ideally Crystal Weapon every 5s for the 1000 armor debuff on bosses, although most are unwilling and choose the frags morph
    - Sometimes Empowered Ward for the Minor Intellect (often a Warden or Nightblade healer does this, but Sorc has an easier time in mobile fights like vAS)
    - Streak for various mechanics

    I don't know how many of these can be handled by a one-bar heavy attack build, but I'd guess not all. Not a huge issue because, again, groups are perfectly fine with zero Sorcs. These are just the few perks remaining that may justify bringing one.
  • robwolf666
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    Whoa... well, this got a bit heated since my first comment. :o
  • devriesmerwb17_ESO
    devriesmerwb17_ESO
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    @Heelie, can you link your videos you do
  • ssewallb14_ESO
    ssewallb14_ESO
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    A 100k build can bring exploitation, crystal weapon, and Atro. An additional flex slot is about a 5k dps loss. Not highly optimal but hardly selfish.
    Edited by ssewallb14_ESO on January 19, 2023 3:25AM
  • MidniteOwl1913
    MidniteOwl1913
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    Jeejee wrote: »
    CrashTest wrote: »
    JJMaxx1980 wrote: »
    Again, it’s just about damage. If you want 120k minimum in your trial group then that is going to exclude a lot of players, not just one bar builds. That would at least be an honest argument and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you.
    Exactly.

    Based on the replies in here and this forum in general, I don't think people realize that 120k+ DPS are not the norm, so it's amusing to me when people keep using that as a standard.

    From my experience reading and vetting a ton of parse submissions, the vast majority of dps are sub 100k. Among those over 100k, most are below 110k. Among those over 110k, most are below 120k.

    This is why heavy attack builds are way too strong compared to the average 2bar dps and need a massive nerf. It's not like 95% of eso players have disabilities.

    How do you get that from what you quoted? Because honestly what you said doesn't make any sense to me.
    PS5/NA
  • endgamesmug
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    I dont have anything against heavy attack builds or oakensoul, i only do dungeons so cant comment on trials. I tried it for a bit because of frustrations with my connection, i got bored and ive gone back to light weave on a 2bar despite the issues. It was good to try it out ill still use it from time to time i imagine, it all boils down to,If youve got the damage sounds good to me 😁.
  • Heelie
    Heelie
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    devriesmerwb17_ESO wrote: »
    @Heelie, can you link your videos you do

    Last time one of my videos was linked on the forums my adress was doxxed and I received death threats so no thank you.
    Most OwOrated healer of all time
  • Kusto
    Kusto
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    I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2023 7:06PM
  • Hyperdeathstalker
    Hyperdeathstalker
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    Kusto wrote: »
    I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.

    I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.

    I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on January 20, 2023 7:07PM
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