Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
Why should ZoS nerf onebar damage? They should fix animation cancelling bug. That will solve the problem too!
colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »[snip]
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Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate but some people are definitely salty, myself included. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
That's like saying "I manage 125k DPS with a difficult dynamic rotation. Why should an easier static rotation be able to reach 115k?"
Reducing the dps difference means if everyone can't do good dps, no one should be allowed to. So you are basically saying it's unfair that some are able to do better dps than others in this game. There needs to be a fair dps difference that rewards skill, effort and practice, but currently HA builds are way too rewarding compared to any other build and that's why majority of players are switching to HA builds. That's proof enough those are the builds that need the nerf
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate but some people are definitely salty, myself included. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
I don't want to sound like a jerk or for this comment to be received as bashing but have You tried to reach 110k+ DPS on a ranged dynamic two bar setup? Because it sounds like You didn't if You think that rotations on one bar heavy attack setups are demanding in any way. If You would actually try to reach that 110k+ on a ranged setup You would understand why for some people think that one bar heavy attack rotations require zero effort.
And just to be clear my comment is not a hate towards one bar heavy attack setups, I think they have their place. It's just calling them demanding that seems a little silly for me. The whole idea behind them is to not be demanding.
It's not free of effort. There are some people who can't even break 70k with a HA build. The average HA user is about 80k to 90s. I know this bc I read parses all the time.And its fair that some people actually practiced and spent lots of effort to reach that dps but now there's a 1 button build for those who didn't bother, that gives you the dps completely free of effort?
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
JJMaxx1980 wrote: »What skill? [...] Crystal Frags?
Yes.
If a magsorc can't cast frags, there's no reason to bring a sorc specifically in the first place. It procs minor prophecy (assuming your group is going that route over weapon power/crit) and it gives reliable ranged ST damage - the other reason why magsorcs are brought into some trials.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »JJMaxx1980 wrote: »What skill? [...] Crystal Frags?
Yes.
If a magsorc can't cast frags, there's no reason to bring a sorc specifically in the first place. It procs minor prophecy (assuming your group is going that route over weapon power/crit) and it gives reliable ranged ST damage - the other reason why magsorcs are brought into some trials.
So actually they have a legitimate point here. While we are talking about maximized groups here it does stand. Another good example of this is NB. Debilitate is a subpar dot however it does provide minor mag steal to the group which if no one else is running that buff is very useful. If I'm running a one bar build I would not be able to run it. As I mentioned though, this is really only pertinent to a maximized trial group.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »JJMaxx1980 wrote: »What skill? [...] Crystal Frags?
Yes.
If a magsorc can't cast frags, there's no reason to bring a sorc specifically in the first place. It procs minor prophecy (assuming your group is going that route over weapon power/crit) and it gives reliable ranged ST damage - the other reason why magsorcs are brought into some trials.
So actually they have a legitimate point here. While we are talking about maximized groups here it does stand. Another good example of this is NB. Debilitate is a subpar dot however it does provide minor mag steal to the group which if no one else is running that buff is very useful. If I'm running a one bar build I would not be able to run it. As I mentioned though, this is really only pertinent to a maximized trial group.
JJMaxx1980 wrote: »I don't want to sound like a jerk or for this comment to be received as bashing but have You tried to reach 110k+ DPS on a ranged dynamic two bar setup? Because it sounds like You didn't if You think that rotations on one bar heavy attack setups are demanding in any way. If You would actually try to reach that 110k+ on a ranged setup You would understand why for some people think that one bar heavy attack rotations require zero effort.
And just to be clear my comment is not a hate towards one bar heavy attack setups, I think they have their place. It's just calling them demanding that seems a little silly for me. The whole idea behind them is to not be demanding.
If you want to go by the numbers I can provide that. I have the CMX info for the following:
A 127k 2-Bar MagSorc Parse:
Time: 2:45
Light Attacks: 161
Abilities: 162
Total Actions: 323
A 105k 1-Bar OakenSorc Parse:
Time: 3:19
Heavy Attacks: 80
Abilities: 55
Total Actions: 135
However, the Heavy Attack is never re-pressed, so technically all 80 attacks are a single action, bringing the total Actions to 56.
I will say that if you calculate the actions per second of the 2 bar parse, you’ll see that it’s roughly 2 APS. That means that in order to achieve that kind of result, you need to be able to press the exact correct button every 0.5 seconds for an entire fight, all while avoiding damage and following mechanics. This is the reason ZOS specifically stated that it is unfair to expect a large majority of players to do this. It’s great for those who can do it but for the rest of us, Heavy Attack builds are the perfect balance where we do have to weave correctly, but only at a slower pace. We have less overall damage, but we aren’t locked out of any content, regular or vet.
Again, so many bis sets demand LA to proc, they has to re-balance the game. I say the US should convert to the metric system first 😺Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
Why should ZoS nerf onebar damage? They should fix animation cancelling bug. That will solve the problem too!
I haven't seen anybody getting hate [snip]. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
This thread is circling. Basically,
Angry pitchfork claim: "you only push one button!"
Response: in fact I'm pushing 5, plus ult between a longer HA instead of 10 between a short LA.
Angry pitchfork again: less work for the same damage!
Response again: in fact my top dmg is about 25%- 30% less than your top end with less burst and block.
Pitchfork again: you only push one button!
Response: smh
JJMaxx1980 wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »JJMaxx1980 wrote: »What skill? [...] Crystal Frags?
Yes.
If a magsorc can't cast frags, there's no reason to bring a sorc specifically in the first place. It procs minor prophecy (assuming your group is going that route over weapon power/crit) and it gives reliable ranged ST damage - the other reason why magsorcs are brought into some trials.
So actually they have a legitimate point here. While we are talking about maximized groups here it does stand. Another good example of this is NB. Debilitate is a subpar dot however it does provide minor mag steal to the group which if no one else is running that buff is very useful. If I'm running a one bar build I would not be able to run it. As I mentioned though, this is really only pertinent to a maximized trial group.boi_anachronism_ wrote: »JJMaxx1980 wrote: »What skill? [...] Crystal Frags?
Yes.
If a magsorc can't cast frags, there's no reason to bring a sorc specifically in the first place. It procs minor prophecy (assuming your group is going that route over weapon power/crit) and it gives reliable ranged ST damage - the other reason why magsorcs are brought into some trials.
So actually they have a legitimate point here. While we are talking about maximized groups here it does stand. Another good example of this is NB. Debilitate is a subpar dot however it does provide minor mag steal to the group which if no one else is running that buff is very useful. If I'm running a one bar build I would not be able to run it. As I mentioned though, this is really only pertinent to a maximized trial group.
This is correct. However, you’re only gonna get this sweaty for HM Trials, Trifectas and score pushing and no one-bar build is arguing that they would be a good fit for that content. However, there’s some in this thread arguing that one-bar builds are unacceptable for any group content and that’s just ignorant.
JJMaxx1980 wrote: »Reducing the dps difference means if everyone can't do good dps, no one should be allowed to. So you are basically saying it's unfair that some are able to do better dps than others in this game. There needs to be a fair dps difference that rewards skill, effort and practice, but currently HA builds are way too rewarding compared to any other build and that's why majority of players are switching to HA builds. That's proof enough those are the builds that need the nerf
There is a difference and it’s around 30% less damage with a HA build. That’s the balance. Yes it’s an easier rotation but you’re still significantly behind even a sub-par 2 bar player.
Why would they nerf a play style that is 30% less powerful than any other build, especially when they made the most recent changes to shrink the gap between those same players. They did exactly what they wanted to do. Now you have a high-skill, high reward play style and a lower-skill, lower reward play style but now both groups are able to enjoy all the games content.
Nerfing this play style would revert the game state back to excluding a large portion of the player base from game content, something they literally just changed.
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »I haven't seen anybody getting hate but some people are definitely salty, myself included. I'm not a top dps but not the floor either. I've worked hard to farm sets, learning rotation and weaving and got my parse up to 105k. That's enough for me to do any vet content except some HMs and trifectas, which I'm not interested anyways. But now with Oakensoul HA builds, people who couldn't hit 50k, are now hitting as much as me. They put in 0 effort. My best HA parse is 96k so I'm using that now aswell. Why get all sweaty for extra 10k? This is not healthy for the game. Unless you're hitting 130k there's no point using anything but Oakensoul HA. Good aoe, decent st and great survivability on top. I can definetly see nerf hammer dropping next patch.
I dont get where the 0 effort comes from ? It is still demanding to hit 100k on a heavy attack build only difference is less weaving between skills and not 2 bars? I would class the builds a average to learn as it still requires good timing and rotation of skills if ur bad with it will not give you op dps it would drop to like 75k. Same with a light attack build poorly executed ud prob get 85k with optimal gear and 125k plus with good rotation.
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
I dont want to sound like a jerk or for this comment to be recived as bashing but have You tried to reach 110k+ DPS on a ranged dynamic two bar setup? Because it sounds like You didn't if You think that rotations on one bar heavy attack setups are demanding in any way. If You would actually try to reach that 110k+ on a ranged setup You would understand why for some people think that one bar heavy attack rotations require zero effort.
And just to be clear my comment is not a hate towards one bar heavy attack setups, I think they have their place. It's just calling them demanding that seems a little silly for me. The whole idea behind them is to not be demanding.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
That's a dangerous statement. You would change actions that are already too difficult and clunky for many players, and make them more difficult and clunky to spite those that have learned them? How does raising the difficulty of 2 bar rotations help anyone? The ceiling will still master the method, and players in the middle will feel the effects.
It's good that a variety of builds are viable currently, but nobody pressing 4 buttons in 10s is entitled to similar results as someone pressing 12-14 in the same 10s. Fair is a funny choice of word.
All of the arguments continue to boil down to people being upset that other people "aren't putting in as much effort" and quite frankly that's a weak argument. This game is hemorrhaging end-game players so I'm all for whatever brings more players to the game and makes it easier for them to engage in all types of content. Stop worrying about what other players are using and if you're trying to get sweating and push trial scores then by all means you can build your trial team to your specifications, but for everything else, give it a rest.
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »
I really cant see any problem with the current state of both dps options. And if it is nerfed next patch then they should also have a delay bar swapping and prevent animation cancelling to reduce too much of a dps difference. Thats fair
That's a dangerous statement. You would change actions that are already too difficult and clunky for many players, and make them more difficult and clunky to spite those that have learned them? How does raising the difficulty of 2 bar rotations help anyone? The ceiling will still master the method, and players in the middle will feel the effects.
It's good that a variety of builds are viable currently, but nobody pressing 4 buttons in 10s is entitled to similar results as someone pressing 12-14 in the same 10s. Fair is a funny choice of word.
Yes very dangerous RIP ESO and i only said lower 2 bar dps if they lower 1 bar setups. If toxic endgamers get their way and heavy on bar builds are killed off so is a large portion of the dps average playerbase and potional players. Would you rather 10 dps queuing who have heavy attsck builds that do good damage or 2 dps that are top tier with and having less to go around. If u have 2 opposing options the fair thing to do is nerf both not 1
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »If toxic endgamers get their way [...]
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »He prob annoyed coz he pull 10k higher with sweaty 2 bar 90 skill build lol [...]
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »Is it only elitist toxic players that have a problem with them ? Is it a threat to their sweaty complex 2 bar light attack rotations that only pull 20percent more dps?
Hyperdeathstalker wrote: »[...] the hate comes from them, all one bar players do is retaliate as they get upset seeing threatening dps numbers creeping towards their parses.