ESO+ just lost a significant amount of value

Deter1UK

BahometZ wrote: »

I think it's too early to draw conclusions about worth.

Exactly so.

All that's implied is that:

'ok guys, we've had a lot of feedback that the year long single story release is less popular than the way we did it with Morrowind Clockwork etc so we are going back to that which has advantages for us as well'

I have no idea how many people were complaining about lack of value then all I can say is thank god I'm not a game developer!

Turtle_Bot

Yes and no.

TBH it depends on if the future chapter releases have just as much content as the old chapter + dungeon + zone dlcs had in past years.

According to the letter, it seems likely that this will be the case for quests, stories and zones at least. So at most we should only really lose 2 dungeons, which isn't much of a loss considering how bloated the armor set pool currently is and how much people are asking for reworks to older sets instead of a bunch of new sets that will also become obsolete within 3 months.

Also, eso+ still gives you access to all past dlcs and most older chapters as well as the main reason for most who get it, that being the craft bag. So for the majority of players it is unlikely that it will have much less value, if any less at all.

Vrienda

I've had a subscription since the game required one. Only ever had it lapse due to a banking error way back in 2020 which lasted about 4 days. Never before has the value of my subscription felt less than the last two years given the DLC is handed out for free with chapters and I -loathe- dungeon DLC being part of my random rotation.

I have enough craftbag materials to last me decades. I'm not interested in housing. I couldn't care less about the crowns because the store is so damn oversaturated with stuff that even the 'cool' stuff seems less cool because of it.

We need something more. Give us the chapter for free right away. Let us have a discount on collector bundles. More free items in the store for ESO+ members. A treasure map/Survey bag. Heck, give us a writ bag too. Make it so we don't need soul gems to resurrect people so we can sell the 1000+ we've saved up. Let us opt out of the DLC dungeons.

And then find something else because even all this is still not too great.

Fingolfinn01

Its to early to call

Zodiarkslayer

The worth is an individual assessment of value and heavily dependent upon ones preferences, knowledge and expectations.

Since we have a dual payment method, everyone is free to decide which fits them best. Subscription or pay once.
Players should be aware what they are deciding.

Take me for example. After I understood just how detrimental the craft bag is for the economy, I decided ESOplus is just not worth it.

I think everybody should just decide for themselves. I am sure, that if a lot of players are unsubbing, because they feel they have less value, ZOS will probably adjust the ESOplus service.
Who kniws they might even decide to add something new as conpensation.🤷‍♂️

francesinhalover

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

I don't get it. people cry they want more quality and the game's issues to be fixed
And than we get people acting like this.

Maybe wait? no need to overreact. Personaly i couldn't care less about the dungeons. it's more vet no death rewards locked that i will never have.

Lugaldu

It doesn't matter to me, I have ESO plus primarily for housing. But I'm also frustrated this year that we didn't get a free house and there were only two crown houses (and one of them only available for a short time). And no house at all on Galen!

ghost_bg_ESO

as much as i'm opposed to segmenting eso+, can we skip a year and include eso+ without crowns in game pass ultimate to cover pc and xbox?

jcaceresw

The way I see, the "chapters" are DLC and should be included in my ESO+ subscription. But yeah, because of the terminology and legal voids ZOS is able to charge us nearly $60 for just a pretty small piece of land without much less content compared to the first 2 chapters (Morrowind and Summerset) or the vanilla game.

Agenericname

If nothing else changes, then I would agree. It seems a bit early to tell though.

Dungeons are probably the only reason that I sub. They are pretty important to me. I suppose we will have to see what their repeatable content for veterans is.

BlueRaven

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

I agree. This kinda felt like “We have content until Q2. Then, cya next year!”

DMuehlhausen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

Nah. 1,000,000% of the value is the crafting bag. They could get rid of everything else and as long as I have the crafting bag it's worth the cost.

DMuehlhausen

AzuraFan wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

It’s also widespread common knowledge #1 reason why people sub is craftbag - I doubt there is a single subscriber out there that explicitly does not use it. And since that is still there - for vast majority of subscribers I don’t think they will see this at all as any lost value. Probably happier about it.

I'm a subscriber and I see it as lost value. I'm not sure what it is about games that makes subscribers more willing to let the value of a subscription erode, when they wouldn't do so with another type of product. For example, if you got 10 perks as part of a subscription and were suddenly told that you're only going to get 6 but the price isn't going down, I'm sure most would have something to say about that. But not with ESO+.

Yes, the craft bag is probably the most valuable part of the subscription for most players. I also like the increased bank space, and I like the access to the DLCs. That's been enough for me to shell out for ESO+ what I could be spending on three AAA games, or many more non-AAA games, per year. And that's on top of the major chapter release each year.

Now the DLC access part is being considerably watered down going forward. One DLC, and a dungeon one at that.

Frankly I think as part of this new direction, ZOS should re-evaluate ESO+ and its benefits. Why should consumers keep paying for it when it's being watered down?

When you have a one-trick pony like the craft bag, the danger is that a motivated player can figure out how to do without it (as many have) and skip the subscription, or decide that yeah, they can't get along without the craft bag, but ESO+ is too expensive for just that, so bye-bye ESO.

Because not everyone views everything the same. Some probably subbed for the monthly crowns and as long as they get those it's worth it. Basically everyone subs for the crafting bag so it hasn't value to people. Not everyone views things the same.

Tornaad

You haven't even heard what all they are planning and you are already saying it has lost a significant amount of value. The Craft Bag alone is worth the price. I suspect they will be adding something to ESO plus to increase the value of ESO plus. At a minimum wait until the reveal event to make your decisions.

dcam86b14_ESO

No bc craft bag .

Tyralbin

It will still be worthwhile due to previous dlcs.

I haven't purchased them all so still having access to those makes it worthwhile.

Danikat

Some people paid for a subscription in the months between the switch to buy-to-play and Imperial City (the first DLC) being released when you got nothing for it except crowns and an XP bonus. The other bonuses like the craft bag, dying costumes etc. weren't included until later. I suspect ZOS is expecting something similar where some people will continue to pay regardless of what they get for it, and that others will like whatever we get instead of DLC enough to keep paying.

As several people have said it's up to each person to decide if it's worth the price for them, and I think it's important to remember that doesn't have to be a one-off absolute decision. You could let you subscription lapse at the end of the time you've paid for and then re-subscribe when there's something that makes it worthwhile for you. IMO it's a good idea to consider each time your sub is up for renewal whether it's worth paying for it again, it may only take a few seconds to ask yourself the question and it saves wasting money on something you're not really using.

(It's the same for non-subscribers too. I usually don't subscribe but about once a month I think about if I want it, usually when the crown store showcase announces the new freebie and discounts. Most of the time I don't want it, but it's still worth considering.)

SaffronCitrusflower

I think people need to realize ZOS is almost certainly sunsetting ESO. There is every indication that this is what's going on when you look at the bugs not fixed, the smaller content releases, the lack of any kind of communication, etc.....every indicator is that ZOS is pulling back from their investment in ESO.

This is part of why I cancelled my ESO+ sub after 8 years when U35 was on the PTS. Look around and see what's going on.

Juju_beans

ESO gives you a lot more for the sub price. Other games just give you server access and that's it.
I have no issues with ESO+ as I feel I do get a lot for the money vs playing for free.

me_ming

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Less content is less content. Would the year of Wrothgar have been as good if it didn't also include the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. Would Summerset have been as good of an entire year without Murkmire? The answer is no.

Actually the answer is YES. IC was released Aug 2015, Orsinium on Nov 2015. those were the ONLY DLCs we had as ESO+ subs. TG, DB and Shadows of the Hist on 2016. Morrowind (the first Chapter), Horns of the Reach and Clockwork City on 2017. Summerset, Dragon Bones, Wolfhunter and Murkmire on 2018... and then they started doing that year-long story thing with Elswyer. So you see, ESO+ started with 2 DLCs, and IC only had 2 dungeons + a new zone, on 2015 we didn't even get a Chapter (granted Orsinium is way better than the last 2 Chapters), but the first year of ESO+ we got 2 dungeons, 2 new zones and 1 arena, and that's it. No new trials, no new DLC system/feature. DLC dungeons weren't really a thing until Shadows of the Hist. Actually to be more accurate, ESO+ started with only base game updates. DLCs followed shortly after. And it did well, because of the crafting bag space, more than any thing.

You're not loosing your ESO+ value because you're not loosing access to any of the DLCs from the past. Having ESO+ is not a guarantee that you will have the same content every year, because they can change how they release content. Having ESO+ is making sure you get access to those content.

Heartrage

Honestly, I can’t care less. I’ve been a suscriber for years and this game already has enough quantity, it needs more quality. The release rhythm of 2 dungeon dlc, 1 chapter, 1 small zone dlc every year is tiring and has become bland. Just think about it, since summerset, the daily quests from new zones hasn’t changed and the only change summerset brought was adding a "dolmen" daily.

luen79rwb17_ESO

No need to point fingers when there's literally no information about 2023's monetization proposal.

Amottica

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I figured someone would suggest ESO+ just lost value.

I will point out that getting four dungeons and two zones a year is extremely heavy on the dungeon side. I know I am tired of getting so many dungeons a year.
'
Even then,we do not know how the DLCs will turn out. We may get more in the three releases a year. Even then, I have not seen the slightest clue offered to suggest what the Q4 offering will be. It may be a great offering to the game.

As such, we only know that things will get different and that it is premature to suggest we will get less value. Zenimax knows content is a big driver to keeping players in the game. So yes, it is very hasty to suggest any facts based on the vague information we have received.

They stated the Q4 DLC will be the big system, and it's gonna be a tentpole type thing. It sounds like they've moved the big new system from being part of the chapter DLC to a standalone thing in Q4. We'll probably still get a Trial in the chapter though, as they said the chapter will be full featured. It will be interesting to see what they can do with more time to polish it.

I know what they said.

So yes, we do not have the slightest clue what that system will be, and how much it will add to the game. As such it is extremely premature to suggest ESO+ has lost value.

wolfie1.0.

Zos has given out 4 dlcs for free. Murkmire (as a daily login reward) imperial city (still free). Then deadlands and firesong.

Along with that ESO+ still gives you access to all previous chapters and all dlcs

Zos never guaranteed that they would continue their release schedule. There may or may not be perks related to new systems in play here.

Personally, I would prefer they skip the Q1 dlc as well and work on bug fixes and QoL items. Those things have more impact on my sub status than dlcs right now.

That said, I wouldn't cry loss of benefits just yet until ZOS gives us more details on exactly what is going on next year. It's entirely possible that they add benefits to whatever new thing they add for plus members

spartaxoxo

Amottica wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I figured someone would suggest ESO+ just lost value.

I will point out that getting four dungeons and two zones a year is extremely heavy on the dungeon side. I know I am tired of getting so many dungeons a year.
'
Even then,we do not know how the DLCs will turn out. We may get more in the three releases a year. Even then, I have not seen the slightest clue offered to suggest what the Q4 offering will be. It may be a great offering to the game.

As such, we only know that things will get different and that it is premature to suggest we will get less value. Zenimax knows content is a big driver to keeping players in the game. So yes, it is very hasty to suggest any facts based on the vague information we have received.

They stated the Q4 DLC will be the big system, and it's gonna be a tentpole type thing. It sounds like they've moved the big new system from being part of the chapter DLC to a standalone thing in Q4. We'll probably still get a Trial in the chapter though, as they said the chapter will be full featured. It will be interesting to see what they can do with more time to polish it.

I know what they said.

So yes, we do not have the slightest clue what that system will be, and how much it will add to the game. As such it is extremely premature to suggest ESO+ has lost value.

We may not know what the system will be, but we don't need to in order to know that having a system is not new. It is a standard part of the offering. Good systems are not new.

1 system
1 chapter
4 dungeons
1 story dlc

became

1 system
1 chapter
2 dungeons
0 story dlc

It might be higher quality, but they already told us the plan is to reduce the number of quests in favor of something repeatable and to stop releasing content each quarter. Because now they want to do quality control a quarter. Less stuff for the same price is a reduction in value.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

. There may or may not be perks related to new systems in play here.

Yes, this is what I want to know. I want to know if changing up plus a bit is planned to accommodate these changes.

ETA

We are not talking about this content schedule being around just next year, after all. We used to get new content every quarter, so those that subbed for a year would have something new to do every quarter, and now we're not. If the content is still pushed out on the same months that means after the chapter release around Jun, nothing will be added until November. That's not an insignificant time period to get nothing new out of your sub.

GreatGildersleeve

Prior to U35, I was an ESO+ sub for years (4, maybe 5?) and I only ever took it as: craft bag and some crowns.

The 10% xp buff is useless when you max out your toons… even more so with a double xp event as often as they happen now. The zone access didn’t matter… that’s what I used my crowns on since I’m not a pet/costume collector. It is what you choose to take out of it.

Edit: I completely forgot the ESO+ housing/bank limit buff which says a lot really. To some, important. To me? No.

spartaxoxo

Actually on thinking of it, this new pricing structure is even more significant than I thought.

The current chapters are NOT a part of plus. So unless the new system in Q4 will be added to base game, that means that you now have to pay a separate price for a system you used to get as part of the chapter.

If the new system is DLC, then plus will at least get the new system a year earlier. If it's base game, then the only new content plus gets will be 2 dungeons. While they'll also get High Isle and that will be a good value for people who didn't buy the chapter, I would imagine most plus subscribers buy the chapters as they come out. So that it won't be new to them.

AzuraFan

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

Prior to U35, I was an ESO+ sub for years (4, maybe 5?) and I only ever took it as: craft bag and some crowns.

I no longer see the crowns as a benefit. I don't really have anything to spend them on. I have all the non-combat pets I need, I'm happy with the outfit my main is wearing, I get enough potions and experience scrolls and other stuff through playing and login rewards.

There are a couple of houses I'd like, but it's crazy that you have to wait months, even years, for a house you want to be available for purchase again.

So the crowns I get through ESO+ are just accumulating, waiting for something to show up in the crown store that I want. To me it's a useless benefit at this point, unless I spend some of them on the couple of story DLCs I don't own because I intend to cancel my sub.

(aside: As many have suggested, I'll wait and see what they announce in January and then evaluate for myself whether ESO+ is still worth it. I hope they say something about ESO+ in the reveal, even if it's to confirm that nothing will be added to it. That will be good to know, too.)

BlueRaven

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They probably won't lower the price, because these corporations rarely do. But no matter what the chapter content turns out to be, the fact of the matter is we just lost 2 dungeons and a story dlc zone. In the final one, we didn't even get an arena. And this year also includes NO coin homes (not inns), an unprecedented decision.

Will plus subscribers get anything that represents this lost value? A house, a dungeon dlc, and a story dlc are just gone.

Nah. 1,000,000% of the value is the crafting bag. They could get rid of everything else and as long as I have the crafting bag it's worth the cost.

This is a not a great argument.

If I am bored and stop playing. It’s not like I lost everything in that bag. And the bag alone is not holding my interest in the game. (I don’t log in, excited to look at my bag.) I can just stop eso+ (and stop playing) and then resume later on, if I wish, with my bag perfectly fine.
The danger there is of course another game meantime may get my full attention then I never come back.

Faulgor

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

They routinely gave away the Q4 DLC for free the last couple of years, so I don't think it's a huge diminishment.

Besides, we don't know yet if the new system released in Q4 will be free/included in the base game.

Twice is not a routine or a trend.

Is thrice? I have gotten Murkmire, Deadlands and Galen.
Dragonhold and Markarth were not given away IIRC, at least I don't have them.