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2023 New Feature Speculation
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The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »It comes down to how SpellCrafting would be implemented. If there are 1000 possible combinations of spells craftable... it will be a balancing nightmare and will overshadow all the other Skills that are restrictive and ridged. If there aren't enough possible combinations of spells, then how would it be different than 1 or 2 new skill lines with 5-6 Skills, 2 morphs each, and 4-5 passives?
SpellCrafting would have to be large enough to warrant being its own unique thing, but not too large. Players SAY they want 1000 possible craftable spells, but you do realize that only 5% would be viable, right? Bloating out the game like that would be a terrible idea and it would be a design nightmare.
They would have to add 2-3 spells for each school of magic on the first patch to ensure balance is met, then 1-2 every following patch. Each of the base spells would be adjustable, using the same system already in place that’s being used currently on abilities, the more the ability does, the less effective it is at everything.
In example, let’s use the spell Fireball
8,000 damage, instant cast time, single target
10,000 damage, 1.8 second cast time, single target
6,500 damage, instant cast time, AoE
9,000 damage, 1.8 second cast time, AoE
Imagine balance as an pentagon with the center value being zero, and the further the sides are out, the higher the value…
What would happen if you squeezed it? Some sides would be more skewed, more powerful, others would be pulled into the center, less so.
That is the system that balance is fundamentally built upon, for EVERYTHING, not just ESO, the more variables, the more sides you add to the diagram.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on December 16, 2022 5:26AM2 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, if spellcrafting works, fantastic. I just don't want to have to deal with dozens of changing metas and dozens of nerfs every few months.4 -
Billium813✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it funny how ZOS's track record so far has been releasing broken mythics each set, releasing broken PvP sets, making "arbitrary" changes to Skills every patch, overly nerfing and buffing. I mean, they can't even make a change without breaking Blocking. And you want to trust ZOS to implement an intricate balancing act like SpellCrafting?
@The_Titan_Tim
That's a nice picture and all, but that isn't code; it's only a concept (and completely vague)The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Billium813 wrote: »It comes down to how SpellCrafting would be implemented. If there are 1000 possible combinations of spells craftable... it will be a balancing nightmare and will overshadow all the other Skills that are restrictive and ridged. If there aren't enough possible combinations of spells, then how would it be different than 1 or 2 new skill lines with 5-6 Skills, 2 morphs each, and 4-5 passives?
SpellCrafting would have to be large enough to warrant being its own unique thing, but not too large. Players SAY they want 1000 possible craftable spells, but you do realize that only 5% would be viable, right? Bloating out the game like that would be a terrible idea and it would be a design nightmare.
They would have to add 2-3 spells for each school of magic on the first patch to ensure balance is met, then 1-2 every following patch. Each of the base spells would be adjustable, using the same system already in place that’s being used currently on abilities, the more the ability does, the less effective it is at everything.
In example, let’s use the spell Fireball
8,000 damage, instant cast time, single target
10,000 damage, 1.8 second cast time, single target
6,500 damage, instant cast time, AoE
9,000 damage, 1.8 second cast time, AoE
How did you arrive at these values? How do you know they are correct? And this is just Fireball! What about Invisibility, Frost, Buffs/Debuffs, Lightning, Agility Spells (like Bolt Escape), Healing, Summons? Or how all of these play with existing Skills and Armor Sets?
I'm not saying it can't be done. But the possibility of breaking things because there are some spell combinations that are busted (like AOE invisibility?) and balancing would be a NIGHTMARE. We would see 100x more changes to existing Skills, passives, Sets every single patch as they balancing it all out. SpellCrafting would be like dropping a freight train into a lake, the ripples it would cause would destabilize the game for years to come. You want that? Just look at how much players complain about changing Jabs animation! No, SpellCrafting is too much of a risk imo.7 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »i think it's a mini-game. something to do in taverns and with other players
So... tales of tribute?
Also it's supposedly a thing many of us have been asking for. I don't know anyone asking for thatPush Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.5 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »It will not be underwater swimming and I can tell you why right now
Argonians, they can breathe underwater, the other races cannot, that would cause a massive balance shift in their favor, then you have the crowd who believes Vampires should also beable to, for them it would be very immersion breaking if they couldn't.
They could totally get around that by saying the Vestige gains the spell waterbreathing. It's a mid level alteration spell and we have slain molag bal among others so that's not a issue. Or we could get a Tool like a ring of water breathing or something. Hell I'd be fine with a breath system, let the argonians have that advantage.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »It will not be underwater swimming and I can tell you why right now
Argonians, they can breathe underwater, the other races cannot, that would cause a massive balance shift in their favor, then you have the crowd who believes Vampires should also beable to, for them it would be very immersion breaking if they couldn't.
They could totally get around that by saying the Vestige gains the spell waterbreathing. It's a mid level alteration spell and we have slain molag bal among others so that's not a issue. Or we could get a Tool like a ring of water breathing or something. Hell I'd be fine with a breath system, let the argonians have that advantage.
Yes, that wouldn't be an issue. ZOS has no problem creating lore out of thin air. Immersion simply has to be suspended.
Pretend you're in a Lewis Carroll rough draft where anything goes.RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.3 -
johnjetau✭✭✭I hope the new feature is Furniture Recycling.
Finally allow us to break down all that old furniture that we no longer need and get some mats along the way.5 -
fizzylu✭✭✭✭✭
✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Here's what I remember as "most requested".- New Class
- Trial Finder
- Story Mode Dungeons
- Hide Shoulders and/or Crotch Flaps
- Group Duels
- Underwater Swimming
- Companion Duels
- Battlespire Dungeon (PvPvE)
- PvP Arenas (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc)
- Housing Battlegrounds
- New Battleground set in theme of new Chapter
Someone might have already said this.... but some (if not most) of these should not be considered a "new feature" that is the selling point of a new chapter. Some are even worse than the card game being the main feature of High Isle. I'll honestly die from laughing if the new feature is a trial finder.... something that could easily be implemented at any time. The hiding shoulders thing would extra have me dead on the floor.
Also, this is not me saying they shouldn't add these things.... just that they shouldn't be considered an expansions selling feature. Like WoW with Dragonflight, they added QoL updates like a new UI and merging your bag slots.... but were those things the shiny new feature(s)? No, a new race/class and dragon riding was.... the rest were just a bonus. And I'd say new weapons are more in demand than a lot of these things too.Edited by fizzylu on December 18, 2022 12:19AM7 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭I just love how I found these from a Dragon I killed in Southern Elsweyr. Based on the 2014 Quakecon Spellcrafting presentation, it would appear the NPC who got swallowed by that dragon was a Spellcrafter, must have been on his way to telling us how.
Edited by The_Titan_Tim on December 18, 2022 3:16AM3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Spellcrafting in single-player games, yes but in MMO how would they balance it?
I wonder why nobody seems to have issues with any other crafting. It's only ever spellcrafting that is rejected on principle.
What, you want people to be able to craft different kinds of weapons with a dozen traits and hundreds of sets!? How would you ever balance such a thing!? It can't be done! And hundreds of styles, too? That's way too much development time!
The real overpowered crazyness in single player games like Morrowind didn't even come from spellcrafting, but Alchemy and Enchanting, which we've had in ESO from day 1 without any objection.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Spellcrafting in single-player games, yes but in MMO how would they balance it?
I wonder why nobody seems to have issues with any other crafting. It's only ever spellcrafting that is rejected on principle.
What, you want people to be able to craft different kinds of weapons with a dozen traits and hundreds of sets!? How would you ever balance such a thing!? It can't be done! And hundreds of styles, too? That's way too much development time!
The real overpowered crazyness in single player games like Morrowind didn't even come from spellcrafting, but Alchemy and Enchanting, which we've had in ESO from day 1 without any objection.
The obvious answer is that crafted spells would be boring, like crafted weapons. Crafting weapons is just to complete some set bonus, and the power is capped by the set bonus. Gear crafting in this game is mainly just a leveling activity that turns into a grind. It is an albatross that served a purpose at launch and is just around today because the grind is popular.
This is the legacy that birthed Jewelry Crafting and will birth Spell Crafting. We need to look no further than Jewelry Crafting to see what Spell Crafting will be like. It will be implemented as a grindy, boring, system that lacks any real power compared to what we have today. Primarily a cosmetic and customization thing, it will serve little purpose other than to occupy time leveling and provide some manner of end game grinding.
Edited by Elsonso on December 18, 2022 1:57PM5 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Spellcrafting in single-player games, yes but in MMO how would they balance it?
I wonder why nobody seems to have issues with any other crafting. It's only ever spellcrafting that is rejected on principle.
What, you want people to be able to craft different kinds of weapons with a dozen traits and hundreds of sets!? How would you ever balance such a thing!? It can't be done! And hundreds of styles, too? That's way too much development time!
The real overpowered crazyness in single player games like Morrowind didn't even come from spellcrafting, but Alchemy and Enchanting, which we've had in ESO from day 1 without any objection.
So do you want spell crafting to essentially just be a new skill line you have to gather resources for to make? Because thats what item sets are.
On one hand; I could see it as a new option rather than introduce crafted sets all the time and trying to find what's not already been done. On the other; I think about how they did jewelry crafting mats and I'd rather not have to have the equivalent gold upgrades just to use a spell at it's theoretically balanced potential. Not that having it Temper supply would be great either. Just sounds like a lot of work to use a spell that ultimately will need to be balanced with ones I just levelEdited by TechMaybeHic on December 18, 2022 2:11PM0 -
FelisCatus✭✭✭✭✭SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »What is the obsession people have with spellcrafting? Cannot fathom how it would work in an mmo - would not everyone end up using the same few spells, like they do with armour sets now.
And if no content dlc in Q4, they had better up the rewards for ESO+.
Watch the below vid (it only lasts about 5 mins and starts exactly at the Spellcrafting part). This will show you why there has been hype about Spellcrafting for years. And that hype came from ZOS themselves.
I have only been playing for a little over 3 years now myself, so this is all new to me too and I was once where you are at now - thinking, "Spellcrafting, what's the big deal/hype?". Until I saw this video and had my mind blown.
Having said all that - my vote is def Spellcrafting, they were so close to releasing it 8 years ago so surely the time is right now.
Edit - if for some reason the vid starts at the beginning, jump ahead to 53:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LkeMacg-b0&t=3194s
Okay, now I want spellcrafting.
This seems awesome shame they never added it.2 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭It will be something ZOS can use as a selling point but will allow them to shift more and more developers to the 200+ they already have working on their new IP (whatever that may be)Edited by Casdha on December 18, 2022 5:23PMProud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Spellcrafting in single-player games, yes but in MMO how would they balance it?
I wonder why nobody seems to have issues with any other crafting. It's only ever spellcrafting that is rejected on principle.
What, you want people to be able to craft different kinds of weapons with a dozen traits and hundreds of sets!? How would you ever balance such a thing!? It can't be done! And hundreds of styles, too? That's way too much development time!
The real overpowered crazyness in single player games like Morrowind didn't even come from spellcrafting, but Alchemy and Enchanting, which we've had in ESO from day 1 without any objection.
The obvious answer is that crafted spells would be boring, like crafted weapons. Crafting weapons is just to complete some set bonus, and the power is capped by the set bonus. Gear crafting in this game is mainly just a leveling activity that turns into a grind. It is an albatross that served a purpose at launch and is just around today because the grind is popular.
This is the legacy that birthed Jewelry Crafting and will birth Spell Crafting. We need to look no further than Jewelry Crafting to see what Spell Crafting will be like. It will be implemented as a grindy, boring, system that lacks any real power compared to what we have today. Primarily a cosmetic and customization thing, it will serve little purpose other than to occupy time leveling and provide some manner of end game grinding.
Souinds like an MMO in a nutshell to me.
But seriously, how would you change crafting to not make it less "boring"? Because it's not like Morrowind's spreadsheet spellcrafting was an incredibly engaging endeavour either. Would we have to play minigames to fiddle the yarn through the eye of the needle when crafting clothes? I'm not asking to be facetious, I've just never seen crafting, in principle, any other way than it is in ESO or even the single player games. Acquisition of materials and recipes is probably the only variance, but in the end, you gather materials to combine them into a new item, and that's it.
If the problem is that the resulting items are not much more than stat sticks - well, that's in part due to the backlash against anything that would rock the balance boat, and one of the prime arguments launched against spell crafting: That the resulting spells would be too good, not too boring.
I'm all for making any part of the character system - gear, skills, champion passives, consumables, enchanting, etc - more unique and interesting, but when the most common objection to spellcrafting is its inherent imbalance, I just had to point out that this is not the case for any other crafting profession.TechMaybeHic wrote: »Spellcrafting in single-player games, yes but in MMO how would they balance it?
I wonder why nobody seems to have issues with any other crafting. It's only ever spellcrafting that is rejected on principle.
What, you want people to be able to craft different kinds of weapons with a dozen traits and hundreds of sets!? How would you ever balance such a thing!? It can't be done! And hundreds of styles, too? That's way too much development time!
The real overpowered crazyness in single player games like Morrowind didn't even come from spellcrafting, but Alchemy and Enchanting, which we've had in ESO from day 1 without any objection.
So do you want spell crafting to essentially just be a new skill line you have to gather resources for to make? Because thats what item sets are.
"Just be a new skill line". You make it sound so mundane when the only time this game has seen a handful of new skills was with Summerset over 4 years ago! Compare that to the number of new item sets we have seen since then.
But yes, I'd be fine with that, because that's essentially what the demo showed 7 years ago.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
Ishtarknows✭✭✭✭✭Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »IMO, the new feature will be nothing more than companion romance (Rated G).
I really hope not. The "big features" of the past two years have been companions, more companions and a card game. How about something a bit more exciting - a new 2 man arena or we know PVP really needs some love so something for the pvpers would be the most appropriate0 -
Treselegant✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ishtarknows wrote: »Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »IMO, the new feature will be nothing more than companion romance (Rated G).
I really hope not. The "big features" of the past two years have been companions, more companions and a card game. How about something a bit more exciting - a new 2 man arena or we know PVP really needs some love so something for the pvpers would be the most appropriate
They introduced companions in the last few years but they haven't really fleshed them out or given them the attention they deserve during that time. The system is not what it could be (like a lot things right now). The coming year would probably be a good opportunity for the devs to add the new content and general polish that was promised back with Blackwood. Companion romance in particular was touted as " definitely somewhere we want to get to" (RL Jan 21) and it has remained a frequently asked for feature ever since.
But...I do get the frustration. There are so many areas in game that need attention and everyone has their corner. We're all hoping and waiting for improvements for the things we love about the game. The change in direction away from the year long story formula will hopefully allow some breathing room to address the problems that have been building up but I suspect players expecting big changes in the next year are going to be disappointed. I might be totally wrong though, so here's hoping!3 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is the legacy that birthed Jewelry Crafting and will birth Spell Crafting. We need to look no further than Jewelry Crafting to see what Spell Crafting will be like. It will be implemented as a grindy, boring, system that lacks any real power compared to what we have today. Primarily a cosmetic and customization thing, it will serve little purpose other than to occupy time leveling and provide some manner of end game grinding.
Souinds like an MMO in a nutshell to me.
But seriously, how would you change crafting to not make it less "boring"? Because it's not like Morrowind's spreadsheet spellcrafting was an incredibly engaging endeavour either. Would we have to play minigames to fiddle the yarn through the eye of the needle when crafting clothes? I'm not asking to be facetious, I've just never seen crafting, in principle, any other way than it is in ESO or even the single player games. Acquisition of materials and recipes is probably the only variance, but in the end, you gather materials to combine them into a new item, and that's it.
Not my job, and ZOS has said they don't want solutions, just problems. The problem I see is that what they roll out will be boring, grindy, and pointless. Their job is to find a solution, not that I expect them to to do that. If they do Spell Crafting, I think the most important feature will be that it is called "Spell Crafting" so that the Chapter/DLC it is in sells.
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TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hmph. That would be the last thing I'd buy a chapter or dlc for.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spellcrafting should be boring, tbh, because if not, it is likely to be OP and yet another balance nightmare. It's also possible that they would give it the Oakensoul Treatment - OP at launch, nerfed within weeks.
My favourite suggestion so far has been a NG+ with vet difficulty.0 -
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭How do people think of things like hide shoulders as a "new system"? That's very weird to say the least.PC|EU9 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭themaddaedra wrote: »How do people think of things like hide shoulders as a "new system"? That's very weird to say the least.
Expectations are indeed seem low lol. But probably people are confusing words like feature as zos were using it for every smallest addition and qol to sell the idea of it being something grander than it actually is.5 -
ALAEACUS✭✭✭1. Give me Companion helmets.
2. Bring back the old Templar Jabs animation (get rid of the vampire staff copy paste).
3. Fix your **** servers.
4. Stop reducing Endeavor payouts. You introduced this to be compliant with anti-gambling laws, and now you steadily reducing the Endeavor payouts over time hoping authorities won't notice.5 -
LukosCreyden✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My massive tinfoil hat theories:
Spellcrafting, but not as you know it:
Instead of crafting whole new abilities, you craft new aesthetics for abilities. Turn your cliff racer into an ice wraith! Turn your bear into a spriggan! The custom gathering animations were merely a test for this.
Farming! You can now by gardening plots for your house. Grow alchemy ingredients! Cross-breed them for rare ones with extra powerful properties!
Global auction house! All the guild leaders who charge their members a tax are in complete shambles!
Abolish classes! Yolo, game balance is hard, lets throw caution to the wind and crack this game wide open!
New races! Maormer. Maybe also something else.
Abolish racial passives! Turn them into something else that are selectable that you spec in to!
Horse racing! Melt the game engine and explode the servers!
Whatever will be in Q2, it'll be substantial enough to warrant the price of a chapter. Some of the tinfoily things I have already mentioned, along with vet overland and hide shoulders, seem more like Q4 type things.Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.3 -
Dovershark✭✭✭Allow us to kill any flying pet that flaps it's wings in your face. Grrr, bloody annoying.3
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luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭My takes:
Spellcrafting
A new class
A new race
Racial customization feature
A new weapon, pref magica based
A pokemon-like Atronach catch-em-all with Atronach stadiums and PVP
A Nereid and Globin companionsPC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuUjWzC7cps