Assassin's Will is balanced

cuddles_with_wroble

Yes balanced

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Are we playing the same game? Because I ate over 30 Assassin's Will's tonight and not once did I see or hear a single telegraph until it was too late.

It's also not emitted by the Lua api until the damage lands.

theoretically he is right and you can hear it, but you almost never will when your in cyro or bgs pre much most of what react said only applies to 1v1s since thats the only content he actually does

Yes I can hear the sound clear as day but there is no 500ms delay for me. The sound always plays when the damage lands.

I would love a magical 500ms so I can actually avoid Assassin's Will in melee range. I block abilities all the time. Dark Convergence, for example, rarely pulls me because I block it instantly out of habit. With Assassin's Will there's zero opportunity for me to avoid it.

I ping 50ms to PC NA and locked at 119 fps gsync.

yea its actually insanely hard to block or roll it when your not in a 1v1 scenario even when you do hear it. esp when theres more than 1 nbs in a bg or in cyro you kinda just have to pray that you pick the right one and dodge.

also i havent seen anyone mention that this skill can insta kill you if your out of stam or if someone else stuns you and you cant get away like if your rooted or something.

so yes there is counter play but thats only in a perfect situation where your only worry is the nb which isnt super often outside of 1v1s

Sergykid

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Factors other than being a nightblade are in play here. I play magblade in PVP, for 7 years, using mostly nightblade skills. I have never hit anyone in PVP with numbers like that, never. I feel lucky if it hits 10k, it's usually less and IF it lands. More often than not, it is dodged.

Also, I have never, in 7 years of Cyrodiil, been hit with those numbers from a spectral bow.

not being toxic but mate this is a personal issue, we all get hit by numbers like this consistently from high end pvp nightblade players

in 7 light armor pieces and with zero defenses? i don't remember ever getting hit by more than 12k which was few days ago, and that after incap by 25k hp nbs.

op might have been hit by some vamp toggle titanborn set with archer's mind set, bloodthirsty jewels, while him having half health or less and zero defenses.
in such a case it could have been anything like a frags or overload or even a boosted whip

cuddles_with_wroble

Yes balanced

Sergykid wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

Factors other than being a nightblade are in play here. I play magblade in PVP, for 7 years, using mostly nightblade skills. I have never hit anyone in PVP with numbers like that, never. I feel lucky if it hits 10k, it's usually less and IF it lands. More often than not, it is dodged.

Also, I have never, in 7 years of Cyrodiil, been hit with those numbers from a spectral bow.

not being toxic but mate this is a personal issue, we all get hit by numbers like this consistently from high end pvp nightblade players

in 7 light armor pieces and with zero defenses? i don't remember ever getting hit by more than 12k which was few days ago, and that after incap by 25k hp nbs.

op might have been hit by some vamp toggle titanborn set with archer's mind set, bloodthirsty jewels, while him having half health or less and zero defenses.
in such a case it could have been anything like a frags or overload or even a boosted whip

idk how it is on EU but on NA when you duel in the duel spot or que into high mmr bgs you very often get hit like the op did by a nb with 35k hp and 30k res who can brawl with you. there are many many many 20k + bow compilations of tanky nbs hitting other good players for over half their hp.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64l8Z8LyxCw

heres 1 for you

i have like 100 more clips i can link if you wanna see more. shoutout to reactfaster for the build and Rem ESO for the clips

axi

Is skill banalnced in itself? Yes. Is nb currently balanced as a class? No.

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64l8Z8LyxCw

heres 1 for you

These are great clips and highlight how it's nearly impossible to avoid the damage.



This one is particularly egregious.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam

OBJnoob

No not balanced

No not balanced. None of the explanations about how much penetration or crit modifiers or damage the attacker has matters. All of these stats must be assumed to be the same when we go from skill to skill comparing.

The fact is that it does more damage than ultimates and that's why it isn't balanced. I'd happily advocate for the travel time to be removed or lessened or for the light attack requirement to be made easier. I am not blind to the downsides.

But we'd be obtuse and negligent to act like it's fine just because it's easy to avoid in 1v1s with high skilled players. There are so many more aspects to pvp than that. We're talking about the one class in the game that can sneak attack anyone at any time. My experience with nightblades in cyrodiil is not that they want a fair 1v1. They'll happily build stacks and ulti on guards then invis and come gank somebody that was already involved in a 1v2.

React

Yes balanced

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Are we playing the same game? Because I ate over 30 Assassin's Will's tonight and not once did I see or hear a single telegraph until it was too late.

It's also not emitted by the Lua api until the damage lands.

theoretically he is right and you can hear it, but you almost never will when your in cyro or bgs pre much most of what react said only applies to 1v1s since thats the only content he actually does

Wow, you must really dislike me to keep spewing lies like that.

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Are we playing the same game? Because I ate over 30 Assassin's Will's tonight and not once did I see or hear a single telegraph until it was too late.

It's also not emitted by the Lua api until the damage lands.

theoretically he is right and you can hear it, but you almost never will when your in cyro or bgs pre much most of what react said only applies to 1v1s since thats the only content he actually does

Yes I can hear the sound clear as day but there is no 500ms delay for me. The sound always plays when the damage lands.

I would love a magical 500ms so I can actually avoid Assassin's Will in melee range. I block abilities all the time. Dark Convergence, for example, rarely pulls me because I block it instantly out of habit. With Assassin's Will there's zero opportunity for me to avoid it.

I ping 50ms to PC NA and locked at 119 fps gsync.

yea its actually insanely hard to block or roll it when your not in a 1v1 scenario even when you do hear it. esp when theres more than 1 nbs in a bg or in cyro you kinda just have to pray that you pick the right one and dodge.

also i havent seen anyone mention that this skill can insta kill you if your out of stam or if someone else stuns you and you cant get away like if your rooted or something.

so yes there is counter play but thats only in a perfect situation where your only worry is the nb which isnt super often outside of 1v1s

Invalid argument, everything in the game becomes more difficult to fight when you're outnumbered. The OP of this thread plays a proc-bash build for example that can't kill you alone, but does 5k+ DPS Xv1 and more or less guarantees your death.

"It hits hard if you run out of stam and can't counterplay it!". So don't run out of stam? That is your own fault.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/64l8Z8LyxCw

heres 1 for you

These are great clips and highlight how it's nearly impossible to avoid the damage.



This one is particularly egregious.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam

Every single spectral bow in that video could have been avoided. The targets failed to react completely to them.

OBJnoob wrote: »

No not balanced. None of the explanations about how much penetration or crit modifiers or damage the attacker has matters. All of these stats must be assumed to be the same when we go from skill to skill comparing.

What? That is the most illogical statement I have ever heard. No class has the same damage modifiers as others, you wouldn't draw direct comparisons in the tooltips of abilities while ignoring the things that increase them. Thought process like this is probably why the players in this thread think that the skill is what needs adjustment - they're ignoring the factors that cause it to hit that hard.

OBJnoob wrote: »

The fact is that it does more damage than ultimates and that's why it isn't balanced. I'd happily advocate for the travel time to be removed or lessened or for the light attack requirement to be made easier. I am not blind to the downsides.

Which ultimates? The ones that are AOE/undodgeable and hit multiple people?

Again, why change the ability when it never once had it damage increased? Its crazy how people just fail to ackwoeldge the fact that the ability was never buffed. It's fine to suggest that the class is overtuned, because it is, but scapegoating assasin's will as the issue just shows that people don't understand why it hits as hard as it does now.

OBJnoob wrote: »

But we'd be obtuse and negligent to act like it's fine just because it's easy to avoid in 1v1s with high skilled players. There are so many more aspects to pvp than that. We're talking about the one class in the game that can sneak attack anyone at any time. My experience with nightblades in cyrodiil is not that they want a fair 1v1. They'll happily build stacks and ulti on guards then invis and come gank somebody that was already involved in a 1v2.

So you think Assassin's will is too strong because it hits you hard Xv1? We can't exactly balance the game around Xv1 scenarios. By that logic - let's nerf the bow ult because the dot hits me too hard while I'm outnumbered. Let's nerf leap because the snare gets me killed while I'm outnumbered. Let's nerf all dot procs in the game, because they deal too much damage once I'm outnumbered. See where I'm going with this?

Also, the times a ganker is hitting you with an AW from stealth are probably very few and far between - they have to remain in combat to keep the stacks.

Klingenlied

No not balanced

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

No ability should hit this hard in PvP. It's nearly the same damage as pre-nerf Oakensoul Corrosive heavy attacks. But let's pretend that ~30k crits are perfectly fine.



Screenshot taken in Cyrodiil with 32k armor, 2209 crit resist, 6% damage reduction.

The issue is actually not with the skill. This post is just one of the reasons PvP will not be fun for a long, long time I guess.

In my opinion, ESO PvP meta being what it is, is largely due to having one extreme outlier in regards to design - Nightblade. Nightblade is the supposed burst dps stealth class. The way Nightblade stealth works in PvP won't see us moving away from the bad meta we have right now. Your "issue" is not that the skill is too strong. It is too weak actually. It is that your opponent did outplay you or just managed for the stars to align - thus got some real damage in.

I would love a PvP where you got skills that can one-shot people, especially if it is ultimates or skills that have some form of buildup. However, this will never work when you have one class that has build-in stealth and gameplay elements around it - and all others have not. Initiate and the element of surprise will always be a large advantage in any form of faster paced PvP. If large advantages do not come with large disadvantages, balance won't work.

That means there is two parts to my answer. For one, I think it is bad that people complain about oneshots right now. We generally need a faster paced PvP. Tank meta is boring.
On the other hand, there is the reason PvP meta is so hard to fix: allowing for faster kills will make people complain and the lower the time to kill, the more we will see complains focused around the Nightblade.

This is btw by no means a call to nerf Nightblades. It is just a general, personal assessment in regards to current and longterm PvP balancing issues in ESO that goes far beyond a single class.

xylena_lazarow

Yes balanced

Worst tank meta ever. Lowest PvP population ever.

And somehow we still have two pages of arguments with players who demand yet more damage nerfs.

This is why we can't have nice things.

OBJnoob

No not balanced

@React I understand that nightblades have class specific buffs but it isn't "illogical," or whatever you said to expect these class specific buffs to be taken into consideration when balancing the classes or the skills they use. It is even more logical still to consider non-class specific things... It's basically a fundamental scientific necessity.

You can't say "well it only hits so hard because they're fully penetrating the target," and fail to recognize that other classes can also use high penetration+balorghs to fully penetrate a target and they still do less damage with their skills because assassin's will just literally has a higher tooltip. Period.

What ultimates you ask? Uh, EVERY bursty direct damage ultimate. Does DLeap hit harder? Meteor? I'll admit I'm not 100% sure, but I think assassin's will is the single most single target direct damage in the game, regular skill or ultimate.

For that reason I feel it needs balancing. I don't find any of your explanations to be on topic, much less persuasive. The only thing you could do to make me think otherwise is tell me there are abilities that hit harder.

The fact that it's on a class that can guarantee crits and high damage modifiers (20% incap, 10% concealed,) makes it worse not better.

TechMaybeHic

OBJnoob wrote: »

@React I understand that nightblades have class specific buffs but it isn't "illogical," or whatever you said to expect these class specific buffs to be taken into consideration when balancing the classes or the skills they use. It is even more logical still to consider non-class specific things... It's basically a fundamental scientific necessity.

You can't say "well it only hits so hard because they're fully penetrating the target," and fail to recognize that other classes can also use high penetration+balorghs to fully penetrate a target and they still do less damage with their skills because assassin's will just literally has a higher tooltip. Period.

What ultimates you ask? Uh, EVERY bursty direct damage ultimate. Does DLeap hit harder? Meteor? I'll admit I'm not 100% sure, but I think assassin's will is the single most single target direct damage in the game, regular skill or ultimate.

For that reason I feel it needs balancing. I don't find any of your explanations to be on topic, much less persuasive. The only thing you could do to make me think otherwise is tell me there are abilities that hit harder.

The fact that it's on a class that can guarantee crits and high damage modifiers (20% incap, 10% concealed,) makes it worse not better.

The modifiers are out of line but I feel we are stuck In a tank meta because the only other class that can punch through and do this damage I actually feel is needed, is DK whipping with corrosive armor. And even they gave massive down time by comparison yet also get God mode defense when they do it.

More classes should have something, but not be as loaded beyond damage with healing, defense and buffs. Yet they just keep nerfing the others. OP is basically asking for more the same by only looking at the damage numbers

cuddles_with_wroble

Yes balanced

I think the main point of this thread is slightly off topic. We seem to have alot of people in here who are either new to the game or just not ver experienced.

The main point is that nightblade is broken and does too much damage with almost no trade off. They have insane burst heals and are tanky enough to brawl with other classes all while having the damage to 1 shot you for a single failed block or roll.

Some earlier said this is a tank meta which is just plain wrong. People are just building tankier Bcs you get so much damage for free these days since ever set is overloaded with stats. Sea serp coil is another huge issue just like mala was back a few patches ago. Massive amounts of free damage with little to no trade off.

The main factors contributing to what makes it feel like a tank meta, even tho everyone is in double damage sets, is that burst heals as a whole are overturned and over performing. Building high hp and res is easy and free now since sustain doesn’t really matter with hybrid changes on most classes. And the fact that things like sea serp and rally cry overload you with every stat and buff you could ever want for free while building tanky still.

cuddles_with_wroble

Yes balanced

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing. I think you have some good opinions and some obv biased opinions but who doesn’t really.

React

Yes balanced

OBJnoob wrote: »

@React I understand that nightblades have class specific buffs but it isn't "illogical," or whatever you said to expect these class specific buffs to be taken into consideration when balancing the classes or the skills they use. It is even more logical still to consider non-class specific things... It's basically a fundamental scientific necessity.

No. You do not need to standardize everything in the game, and you definitely shouldn't ignore the class factors that play into these numbers.

OBJnoob wrote: »

You can't say "well it only hits so hard because they're fully penetrating the target," and fail to recognize that other classes can also use high penetration+balorghs to fully penetrate a target and they still do less damage with their skills because assassin's will just literally has a higher tooltip. Period.

That tooltip is being boosted by over 30% from some of the overperforming factors that I mentioned in the above post. Other classes don't have these offensive passives, which explains why their abilities don't hit for the same numbers.

OBJnoob wrote: »

What ultimates you ask? Uh, EVERY bursty direct damage ultimate. Does DLeap hit harder? Meteor? I'll admit I'm not 100% sure, but I think assassin's will is the single most single target direct damage in the game, regular skill or ultimate.

Obviously those abilities won't hit as hard, they're undodgeable AOEs. You're comparing apples to oranges. It's worth also mentioning that these numbers people are seeing (at least in the case of a 20k+ proc against a player wearing a real build) are post incap. I don't know how you can make the argument that the skill is OP, by your words based exclusively on the tooltip, while ignoring factors like incap and concealed.

OBJnoob wrote: »

For that reason I feel it needs balancing. I don't find any of your explanations to be on topic, much less persuasive. The only thing you could do to make me think otherwise is tell me there are abilities that hit harder.

Well, if you're convinced that none of the factors outside of the skill matter, then there is no point in continuing to debate.

OBJnoob wrote: »

The fact that it's on a class that can guarantee crits and high damage modifiers (20% incap, 10% concealed,) makes it worse not better.

Ending your post by citing the things you keep saying we shouldn't consider when looking at the damage. Extremely contradictory.

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

React wrote: »

Every single spectral bow in that video could have been avoided. The targets failed to react completely to them.

Avoidability is clearly not a factor that is considered when determining damage. If that was the case, then Ice Comet would crit for 50k+ and Scavenging Maw would crit for 100k+. Because both of those are substantially easier to avoid than Assassin's Will.

React

Yes balanced

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing. I think you have some good opinions and some obv biased opinions but who doesn’t really.

So you've never interacted with me, but somehow you know that " you're known for 1v1s and not much else. That's kinda your thing". You literally cited my 1vX build in an earlier post

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

shoutout to reactfaster for the build

Obviously I'm going to presume that you've seen my content, since you're citing it. So why are you lying about the "content that I do" when my content consists of 1vX videos and solo PVP streams 2-3 times a week? Seems like you're just trying to discredit my opinion.

OBJnoob

No not balanced

[snip] I said that you must consider it. You must consider the other tools in a class kit that augment the skill in question. And I also said that as part of fundamental scientific necessity you must consider that other classes, with their kits, can't achieve the same thing. Then I said that the contributing factors in the nightblades class kit that other classes don't have make it worse not better.

And the between the lines message here is that even without the +30% damage done which other classes don't have, other classes' skills still don't hit the high mark of assassin's will. The 30% shows up on recaps but not tooltips.

But I honestly think you see my point very well you're just beating around the bush for whoever else is reading. If you wanted to dissuade me you would've just told me that other abilities hit harder. You say "no noob you're wrong because of x,y,z," but I made it very clear what my reasons were and you intentionally avoid the actual point I made.

Okay DLeap is AoE. Bad comparison. Good one-- you got me. Now name a single target ability that hits harder than assassin's will. And if you can't do that, then explain to me how it's balanced to put the hardest hitting ability in the entire game on a class that can go invisible, guarantee crits, and do 30% more damage through unnamed stackable class passives that don't even include other modifiers that they (and others,) can also get.

It makes perfect sense. Disagree if you want to-- suggest you'd nerf different pain points instead if that's you're preferred method-- but please don't act as though there's no logic to what I'm saying. My self esteem is plenty high.... You're undermining yourself in my eyes, not making me question myself.

[edited for bait]

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

Here's a brilliant idea.

Lower Assassin's Will's damage to the same as Scavenging Maw and Ice Comet. This means 8-10k crits all the way up to 14-16k with max buffs and a fully debuffed target. If that means changing some other skill that lowers the impact of Assassin's Will, then go for it. It doesn't matter as long as the final damage is brought back in line with the rest of the game.

React

Yes balanced

OBJnoob wrote: »

And the between the lines message here is that even without the +30% damage done which other classes don't have, other classes' skills still don't hit the high mark of assassin's will. The 30% shows up on recaps but not tooltips.

The other class skills don't have the prerequisite conditions and ample counterplay that AW has. Some of the other classes have delayed bursts that can stack into the same GCD, nightblade doesn't. Some of the other classes have dot pressure that overlaps their bursts, nightblade doesn't (unless you're using debilitate). The tooltip should be higher, even without considering the other factors boosting it - it isn't a skill you can use whenever you please that lacks counterplay.

OBJnoob wrote: »

But I honestly think you see my point very well you're just beating around the bush for whoever else is reading.

I see your point, and think that it is incorrect. That's why I've debated it. I guess this one comes down to a difference of opinion, so I'm going to leave it there.

xylena_lazarow

Yes balanced

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing.

This is simply incorrect. Your brain should've filtered out anything after "I have never interacted with you."

Hey @SkaraMinoc was that 27k bow the result of being zerged down, or in a 1v1? Just curious.

React

Yes balanced

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing.

This is simply incorrect. Your brain should've filtered out anything after "I have never interacted with you."

Hey @SkaraMinoc was that 27k bow the result of being zerged down, or in a 1v1? Just curious.

I'm curious about this too, or whether he was in the presence of guards. The guard puncture is something like a 20-30% damage taken debuff, and the guard chain effect is a 10% damage taken debuff as well iirc.

I'd just like to see who that person was or what they were wearing. To hit that number in a 1v1, assuming that was the scenario since the screenshot provides no context at all, they'd have to be in something like this;

5x Gourmand, 5x rallying, balorgh, serpent coil, shadow mundus, all damage enchants w/bloodthirsty, 3-4 damage cps, damage race (khaj, orc, high elf), elemental susceptibility on a backbar ice staff, dual wield frontbar nirn/sharp axes.

This is a realistic "solo" or "1vX" build that would have everything it needed for the "brawler" playstyle - you can certainly go higher by dropping more of the defense or using more niche sets such as titanborn/truesworn/coral riptide/ET.

This build as a khajiit would be about 128% crit damage, 6.9k WD (pre balorgh, pre continuous, pre bloodthirsty), 18k pen (pre balorgh), 24k mag, and about 50% in flat ability/status sourced modifiers (10% concealed, 20% incap, 10% coil, 5% berserk on camo hunter, 5% vuln from susceptibility).

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hey @SkaraMinoc was that 27k bow the result of being zerged down, or in a 1v1? Just curious.

I was fighting a Warden 1v1 in a Cyrodiil keep and a random Nightblade opened with Incapacitating Strike + Assassin's Will. They must have gotten the stacks from a nearby fight. The Assassin's Will sound effect started playing on death and there was no visual telegraph.

Contrary to what @React stated, there was no possible way to avoid this damage. My break frees are near instant. But let's accuse me of a "failed to counterplay" issue despite my actions per minute (APM) being some of the highest on PC NA.

I had Major Breach and Minor Brittle only. Regardless, the context doesn't matter even if React thinks it does. Damage should never reach that high for a single ability in PvP.

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

React wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing.

This is simply incorrect. Your brain should've filtered out anything after "I have never interacted with you."

Hey @SkaraMinoc was that 27k bow the result of being zerged down, or in a 1v1? Just curious.

I'm curious about this too, or whether he was in the presence of guards. The guard puncture is something like a 20-30% damage taken debuff, and the guard chain effect is a 10% damage taken debuff as well iirc.

I'd just like to see who that person was or what they were wearing. To hit that number in a 1v1, assuming that was the scenario since the screenshot provides no context at all, they'd have to be in something like this;

I sent you a DM with the player @name. The fight was up on the ramparts and no guards involved (maybe there was a guard). I know I had Breach and Minor Brittle for sure.

blktauna

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

React wrote: »

Every single spectral bow in that video could have been avoided. The targets failed to react completely to them.

Avoidability is clearly not a factor that is considered when determining damage. If that was the case, then Ice Comet would crit for 50k+ and Scavenging Maw would crit for 100k+. Because both of those are substantially easier to avoid than Assassin's Will.

Give them time....

React

Yes balanced

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hey @SkaraMinoc was that 27k bow the result of being zerged down, or in a 1v1? Just curious.

I was fighting a Warden 1v1 in a Cyrodiil keep and a random Nightblade opened with Incapacitating Strike + Assassin's Will. They must have gotten the stacks from a nearby fight. The Assassin's Will sound effect started playing on death and there was no visual telegraph.

Contrary to what @React stated, there was no possible way to avoid this damage. My break frees are near instant. But let's accuse me of a "failed to counterplay" issue despite my actions per minute (APM) being some of the highest on PC NA.

I had Major Breach and Minor Brittle only. Regardless, the context doesn't matter even if React thinks it does. Damage should never reach that high for a single ability in PvP.

So you were in a keep, and quite possibly could have had a 30% guard puncture debuff or a 10% guard chain debuff on you. You were also engaged with a warden, who applied major + minor breach (9k pen, from deep fissure) and brittle (+10% crit damage taken) to you.

Honestly skara, let's just duel sometime soon and see what kind of damage I do to you in a real scenario. We'll just use our normal open world setups so we can see what the damage looks like on both ends.

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

SkaraMinoc

No not balanced

React wrote: »

So you were in a keep, and quite possibly could have had a 30% guard puncture debuff or a 10% guard chain debuff on you.

I didn't know this was a thing. I play mostly Battlegrounds and only recently Cyrodiil.

ZOS_Exile

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xylena_lazarow

Yes balanced

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I was fighting a Warden 1v1 in a Cyrodiil keep and a random Nightblade opened with Incapacitating Strike + Assassin's Will. They must have gotten the stacks from a nearby fight. The Assassin's Will sound effect started playing on death and there was no visual telegraph.

So you got 2v1 ganked while Cyro performance was its usual terrible self.

They way lag interacts with NB cast times and travel delays is truly horrible for both the NB and their opponent.

This is not the fault of NB damage. This horrible meta is the result of only ever nerfing damage. Also lag.

cuddles_with_wroble

Yes balanced

React wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

And also react no I do not dislike you, in fact I have never interacted with you. However I do know that you mostly do or are known for 1v1s and not much else. That’s kinda your thing. I think you have some good opinions and some obv biased opinions but who doesn’t really.

So you've never interacted with me, but somehow you know that " you're known for 1v1s and not much else. That's kinda your thing". You literally cited my 1vX build in an earlier post

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

shoutout to reactfaster for the build

Obviously I'm going to presume that you've seen my content, since you're citing it. So why are you lying about the "content that I do" when my content consists of 1vX videos and solo PVP streams 2-3 times a week? Seems like you're just trying to discredit my opinion.

I don’t really wanna argue with you on the forums. However I in fact have not seen your content. The meta night blade build that my friend is running is legit called the “react build” so I felt I should give you credit. [snip]

So my bad if I gave a wrong take on your content but in reality I don’t know who you are and like I said, I don’t really care to sit here and argue with you.

[edited for baiting]