Oakensoul nerf

Gaisma · July 2022

I don't know how else to explain that I am not against nerfing it, nor do I think it's a balanced item. All I asked is a bit of understanding how it feels to be OP or me, or another player when something you paid for gets changed so much. Even if the change is good. I bought the chapter only because of the Oakensoul Ring.

I am not hysteric, I played ESO before this mythic and will play it after. But at this point, I think empathy is not a thing we can discuss as we will disagree. You keep missing my point and I guess I am missing yours. There is enough toxicity in this forum already, so I will let this go.

I do recommend learning to discuss things without insulting your opponent, their English, their partner, or their intelligence. It's hard to take you seriously when you do that.

xPoisin · July 2022

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Gaisma wrote: »

Show me another one-bar solo build that can give me good damage and survivability, and stamina recovery on mag character.

This ring let me get trifecta in Vateshran Hallow that I could never get even close to before. My best vitality was 6/15. Sure, you can say I got carried by the ring, and that is fair, but stop acting like anyone who is using this ring never did any effort to do other builds/setups.

Also, hilarious that if you open any of those Alcast's builds that you linked, they all have Oaknsoul: https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/alcast/42f197f1-885f-4a9e-92a0-d4d925a28587/powerful-one-bar-magicka-templar-build-for-eso-dps-pve

[snip] I must ask you to read my comment again. Did I mention Oakensoal ring alone or was it in conjunction with the upcoming "accessibility changes" to the entire game? I clearly mentioned how the entire game is being forced to a state where your "solo players" can clear content without the ring, then on top of that, people are complaining that the tool that enabled them when game wasn't watered down should stay in similar strength when entire game is pale?

For years, [snip] years, Plague Doctor Lightning Staff Pet Sorc was able to clear solo arenas without deaths easily so don't give me [snip] that only Oakensoal has provided that functionality.

Hilarious? [snip] I clearly said those Alcast one bar builds will parse above 60k even after Oakensoal nerfs which implies they do use it? [snip]

Your entire message can be explained in layman's terms using a simple example, you needed a bigger ladder to pluck apples. Now the tree was trimmed and the fruits are low hanging and still, you want the longer ladder. Ladder being the Oakensoal.

Idk why even want Trifecta when it is not the achievement anymore and just a completion. This is a game, not justice. People with higher skills should perform better, people with lower skill cap should not get certain titles.

[snip] let me attach you the meaning of Justice as well,

[snip]
[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

sorry for that misunderstnding, but I am a disabled person and play with my friends (also disabled) and we are not able to gather all the META equipment with onebar builds (without oaken), because I mainly use heavy attack magsorc build or templar, but I am not able to tick my thumbs with GCD (in good days I am on 60% )…
So for me and for my friends when we run mostly in crafted equipment (cause we are not getting to a groups to farm better / trial equipment because we cannot reach the DPS cap)… Oakensoul give us the chance to complete veteran vateshran (for me it took almost 2,5 hour) or go to some vet DLC dungs to get some equipment we wanted…
The only comunnity that is cryin over Oakensoul is PvP community, so take it away from PvP… In PvE it does not hurt anyone…

Einar_Hrafnarsson · July 2022

xPoisin wrote: »

RamiroCruzo wrote: »

Gaisma wrote: »

Show me another one-bar solo build that can give me good damage and survivability, and stamina recovery on mag character.

This ring let me get trifecta in Vateshran Hallow that I could never get even close to before. My best vitality was 6/15. Sure, you can say I got carried by the ring, and that is fair, but stop acting like anyone who is using this ring never did any effort to do other builds/setups.

Also, hilarious that if you open any of those Alcast's builds that you linked, they all have Oaknsoul: https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/alcast/42f197f1-885f-4a9e-92a0-d4d925a28587/powerful-one-bar-magicka-templar-build-for-eso-dps-pve

[snip] I must ask you to read my comment again. Did I mention Oakensoal ring alone or was it in conjunction with the upcoming "accessibility changes" to the entire game? I clearly mentioned how the entire game is being forced to a state where your "solo players" can clear content without the ring, then on top of that, people are complaining that the tool that enabled them when game wasn't watered down should stay in similar strength when entire game is pale?

For years, [snip] years, Plague Doctor Lightning Staff Pet Sorc was able to clear solo arenas without deaths easily so don't give me [snip] that only Oakensoal has provided that functionality.

Hilarious? [snip] I clearly said those Alcast one bar builds will parse above 60k even after Oakensoal nerfs which implies they do use it? [snip]

Your entire message can be explained in layman's terms using a simple example, you needed a bigger ladder to pluck apples. Now the tree was trimmed and the fruits are low hanging and still, you want the longer ladder. Ladder being the Oakensoal.

Idk why even want Trifecta when it is not the achievement anymore and just a completion. This is a game, not justice. People with higher skills should perform better, people with lower skill cap should not get certain titles.

[snip] let me attach you the meaning of Justice as well,

[snip]
[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

sorry for that misunderstnding, but I am a disabled person and play with my friends (also disabled) and we are not able to gather all the META equipment with onebar builds (without oaken), because I mainly use heavy attack magsorc build or templar, but I am not able to tick my thumbs with GCD (in good days I am on 60% )…
So for me and for my friends when we run mostly in crafted equipment (cause we are not getting to a groups to farm better / trial equipment because we cannot reach the DPS cap)… Oakensoul give us the chance to complete veteran vateshran (for me it took almost 2,5 hour) or go to some vet DLC dungs to get some equipment we wanted…
The only comunnity that is cryin over Oakensoul is PvP community, so take it away from PvP… In PvE it does not hurt anyone…

I am really sorry especially for the disabled community. The Ring is strong, yes, but not OP. Removing major heroism would have been enough but instead they just outright stomp it to the ground.

First they finally include people with hindrances and now they kick you out again. I hope you find another way to enjoy the Game

RamiroCruzo · July 2022

xPoisin wrote: »

sorry for that misunderstnding, but I am a disabled person and play with my friends (also disabled) and we are not able to gather all the META equipment with onebar builds (without oaken), because I mainly use heavy attack magsorc build or templar, but I am not able to tick my thumbs with GCD (in good days I am on 60% )…
So for me and for my friends when we run mostly in crafted equipment (cause we are not getting to a groups to farm better / trial equipment because we cannot reach the DPS cap)… Oakensoul give us the chance to complete veteran vateshran (for me it took almost 2,5 hour) or go to some vet DLC dungs to get some equipment we wanted…
The only comunnity that is cryin over Oakensoul is PvP community, so take it away from PvP… In PvE it does not hurt anyone…

You don't need to be sorry, my original post was meant to be a check list. But Gaisma decided to skip first two questions and take it offensively. If you read it carefully it is just me explaining how even after nerfs you are gaining power. Devs are doing that for you people but people are misleading you saying no, that's not it.

Gaisma, seriously mate, next time try to start a discussion without quoting someone out of context to get proper reply. If you don't, don't pin it as person in front of you being toxic.

deathbytiki · July 2022

Marto wrote: »

Oakensoul before:
+10% Damage Done
+430 Wep/Spell Damage
+20% Wep Damage
+20% Spell Damage
+12% Crit Chance
+20% Crit Damage
-10% Damage Taken
+5948 Armor
+15% Health Regen
+15% Mag Regen
+15% Stam Regen
+3 Ultimate every 1.5s

Oakensoul after:
+5% Damage Done
+215 Wep/Spell Damage
+20% Wep Damage
+20% Spell Damage
+12% Crit Chance
+10% Crit Damage
-5% Damage Taken
+5948 Armor
+15% Health Regen
+15% Mag Regen
+15% Stam Regen
+1 Ultimate every 1.5s
+8% Healing Done

This doesn't really seem that bad, when you consider what the target audience for this ring is.

No way. To lose an entire bar... even with minor versions??? I get the cumulative effort but I'd find greater utility in Pale order than this ring; which is a shame. They can nerf heroism to minor but anything beyond that and you're better off with abilities that last 20s than this soon to be trash.

lronclaw · July 2022

It is honestly a horrendous item that shouldn't have existed in the first place and not needed at all for casual gameplay in any occasion. Destroying pvp and removing all the challenge and skill for a totally not needed crutch for casuals is a VERY BAD idea. You already literally cannot die in any casual content (the casual content being all normal dungeons and all overland content game has to offer) so long as you are able to left click once per every 5 second or even 10, how is this ring needed? And I am amazed by the community defending this anomaly of a thing, if you provide braindead items and expect competitive people to use skills when everyone is facerolling them with the braindead item be it pve or ovp content then I truly admire your logic and wonder what you are smoking. You are destroying all challenge and skill required for all sorts of content in the game, I understand that almost all of them are adjusted so everyone can enjoy them but all I ask is that you leave what little challenge game has to offer for players that enjoy them.. I hope this ring gets trashed so much that everyone will cringe even at the sight of its name until eventually it gets removed from the game. Give all personality and skins etc to everyone and name them pvp gods when they create their character but PLEASE stop destroying ALL challenge and promoting braindead gameplay, it will be better than this atrocity of an item. At least we will have some challenge to enjoy even without any rewards (arguably the rewards are already non existent since everyone and their ancestors sells every title and "achievement" thus all the rewards come with them anyways.). There are already more than enough button spam fiesta as it is. Please stop this madness.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 2022

This ring has made a real positive difference for me. I am differantly-abled and it helps me keep up with my daughter when we play together. We are both heartbroken that it will be taken away.

The_Dude · July 2022

And again i will suffer in in PVE because of PVP balancing. .... How many times more???

iaminc · July 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

jaws343 · July 2022

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

BlueRaven · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

jaws343 · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

Secondly, my point around PVE/PVP complaints, is that the only thing PVE players complain about in regards to sets is if they are adjusted. They don't care if the set is too strong as long as they get to use it. Even if the set had explicit purposes, like DC. Oakensoul's purpose is pretty irrelevant to its overall balance. It's intention is irrelevant when it becomes the defacto best in slot for PVP content. That makes it broken. But PVE only players who crutch on it aren't going to complain about it. PVP players who are forced to use it to stay competitive are.

BlueRaven · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

Secondly, my point around PVE/PVP complaints, is that the only thing PVE players complain about in regards to sets is if they are adjusted. They don't care if the set is too strong as long as they get to use it. Even if the set had explicit purposes, like DC. Oakensoul's purpose is pretty irrelevant to its overall balance. It's intention is irrelevant when it becomes the defacto best in slot for PVP content. That makes it broken. But PVE only players who crutch on it aren't going to complain about it. PVP players who are forced to use it to stay competitive are.

Are YOU not allowed to use oaken soul or any other “broken” set for some reason? Because if it’s so good maybe you should just use it and then there will be no imbalance.

And pve players can’t complain about nerfs, but pvp players can complain about anything they wish to. Got it.

jaws343 · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

Secondly, my point around PVE/PVP complaints, is that the only thing PVE players complain about in regards to sets is if they are adjusted. They don't care if the set is too strong as long as they get to use it. Even if the set had explicit purposes, like DC. Oakensoul's purpose is pretty irrelevant to its overall balance. It's intention is irrelevant when it becomes the defacto best in slot for PVP content. That makes it broken. But PVE only players who crutch on it aren't going to complain about it. PVP players who are forced to use it to stay competitive are.

Are YOU not allowed to use oaken soul or any other “broken” set for some reason? Because if it’s so good maybe you should just use it and then there will be no imbalance.

And pve players can’t complain about nerfs, but pvp players can complain about anything they wish to. Got it.

I mean, you can continue to miss the point to inflect your own biases here.

BlueRaven · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

Secondly, my point around PVE/PVP complaints, is that the only thing PVE players complain about in regards to sets is if they are adjusted. They don't care if the set is too strong as long as they get to use it. Even if the set had explicit purposes, like DC. Oakensoul's purpose is pretty irrelevant to its overall balance. It's intention is irrelevant when it becomes the defacto best in slot for PVP content. That makes it broken. But PVE only players who crutch on it aren't going to complain about it. PVP players who are forced to use it to stay competitive are.

Are YOU not allowed to use oaken soul or any other “broken” set for some reason? Because if it’s so good maybe you should just use it and then there will be no imbalance.

And pve players can’t complain about nerfs, but pvp players can complain about anything they wish to. Got it.

I mean, you can continue to miss the point to inflect your own biases here.

No I think I got it.

PvE concerns can be dismissed because pvp concerns are apparently more important.

PvE complaints about gear nerfs can be ignored, because all gear is pvp regardless of its source. Meanwhile, some gear can only be talked only by pvp players BECAUSE of its source.

And pve players are not allowed to complain about nerf threads, because pvp concerns are more important.

Did I get it right?

BlueRaven · July 2022

And finally…

jaws343 wrote: »

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

“You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.”

So what does this mean?
Are dungeon bosses too easy because of the gear? Are too many players fighting them? Are bosses too accessible?

Moloch1514 · July 2022

Bait and switch. Shame on me for falling for it and not waiting until a sale to get this overpriced chapter.

jaws343 · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

The logic here is completely busted.

The PVP community is far more vocal about issues with sets because the PVP community literally has to play against players using these sets.

You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.

A perfect example, using a hypothetical:

ZOS introduces a set that does 100K DPS, by just activating a shield. You hit a shield skill once every second and your target takes 100K damage.

PVP (and PVP/PVE) players will outright revolt, because that set is unreasonably strong in both PVP and PVE.

PVE only players, who defend sets at all cost, will complain that PVP players want to ruin their fun new set.

I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.

Its ridiculous. And it is why no one cares if you enjoyed using Oakensoul. Oakensoul was extremely broken and needed to be adjusted.

Are you claiming the ring made pve content too accessible?

“I mean, we literally have PVE players defending Dark Convergence (an explicitly made PVP set, acquired from PVP only activities, and designed to combat PVP problems) because it is useful to them in dungeons. And then whenever it may finally get adjusted, those same players will come here and complain that PVPers ruined their set.”

So pvp complaints did nerf it for pve then?

And by that logic, since the ring is purely gotten through pve only activities, and defined to combat pve rotational issues, do pvp players not get a say in how it affects them? Since it’s “purely” a pve ring?

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

Secondly, my point around PVE/PVP complaints, is that the only thing PVE players complain about in regards to sets is if they are adjusted. They don't care if the set is too strong as long as they get to use it. Even if the set had explicit purposes, like DC. Oakensoul's purpose is pretty irrelevant to its overall balance. It's intention is irrelevant when it becomes the defacto best in slot for PVP content. That makes it broken. But PVE only players who crutch on it aren't going to complain about it. PVP players who are forced to use it to stay competitive are.

Are YOU not allowed to use oaken soul or any other “broken” set for some reason? Because if it’s so good maybe you should just use it and then there will be no imbalance.

And pve players can’t complain about nerfs, but pvp players can complain about anything they wish to. Got it.

I mean, you can continue to miss the point to inflect your own biases here.

No I think I got it.

PvE concerns can be dismissed because pvp concerns are apparently more important.

PvE complaints about gear nerfs can be ignored, because all gear is pvp regardless of its source. Meanwhile, some gear can only be talked only by pvp players BECAUSE of its source.

And pve players are not allowed to complain about nerf threads, because pvp concerns are more important.

Did I get it right?

BlueRaven wrote: »

And finally…

jaws343 wrote: »

Firstly, I made zero attempt at even alluding to a claim that the ring made PVE content too accessible. Not even sure where I implied that or even bordered on that at all in my comment.

“You know who cannot come to the forums and complain about sets? PVE bosses or mobs.”

So what does this mean?
Are dungeon bosses too easy because of the gear? Are too many players fighting them? Are bosses too accessible?

Let me clear this up.

The person I responded to said that the only complaints about the ring were from PVPers.

MY COMMENT was to that. And that, of course only PVPers will complain, because PVE enemies literally cannot do so. And, as a general occurrence here, PVE players don't complain that they are too strong.

So the idea that just because only PVPers are complaining about a set must mean it isn't a problem in PVE is an outright fallacy.

Not only that, but the comment I replied to mentioned that PVPers wanted players at the bottom of the food chain so they could win against them. But, those PVPers will literally call out a set as too strong, a set that they will use to beat up on lesser experienced players, way prior to that set being introduced to the live servers.

VERY VERY Vocally, over the last year PVPers have said they would use the following sets very effectively and that they should be nerfed to avoid them becoming extremely oppressive:

Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak, Oakensoul, Hrothgar's Chill, Nocturnal's Ploy

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

Quethrosar · July 2022

simple solution to PVP, give everyone the same stuff when in PVP land. Let it be about their leet skills and not equipment.
They can stay in pvp land and leave PVE people alone.
PVP can't even be a big thing in the game considering you can run around c and i without seeing anyone.

Casul · July 2022

Good nerf, but honestly I would rather just have no Mythics in PvP.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 2022

iaminc wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

But it wasn't nerfed because of PvP

Yes it was.

The only complaints/nerf threads about the ring we’re all PvP , it’s always that part of the community begging for nerfs on anything that remotely stops them being too of the food chain and farming new pvpers for free AP.

Yes Oakensoul, DKs, Radiating Regeneration, and lightening/restoration staff all those nerfs are for PVP. Not sure about the 10% ranged damage nerf.

BlueRaven · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

None! I am not sure if you’ve noticed but the amount of people who can do modern dungeons and trials keeps getting smaller and smaller because the dps requirements keep going up. Meanwhile the common player keeps getting nerfed, nerfs that pvp players cheer for.

If you are fighting someone, and the problem is they have better gear, GO GET THAT GEAR! Oaken soul required no trial or dungeon to run. If it’s so powerful just go and wear it. It’s not like you even need to change classes or it favored range or anything. It could be used for every class and spec.

To me it’s like someone complaining that someone else is using a glove to play baseball, if you need a glove go get a glove. Don’t complain that someone else on the opposing team is using them.

Pve is pass/fail. If you don’t have the dps then that’s it. And there is very little desirable items players can get on their own. So yeah, no one is going to complain, because everyone needs every advantage they can get.

If in pvp someone is wearing a piece of op gear, like you claim oaken soul is, then go get it. It’s not like you have to run a vet dungeon. All pvp gear can be acquired from just playing. I don’t know of any gear that say requires a player to be emperor for example. Pve is not that straight forward. And the places for lower end pve players to get gear is becoming scarcer with each patch.

Next time you want to cheer for a pvp nerf, how about figuring out a way to make sure it’s a pvp ONLY nerf. And leave pve out of it. Players there need all the help they can get.

kuldar1994 · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

None! I am not sure if you’ve noticed but the amount of people who can do modern dungeons and trials keeps getting smaller and smaller because the dps requirements keep going up. Meanwhile the common player keeps getting nerfed, nerfs that pvp players cheer for.

If you are fighting someone, and the problem is they have better gear, GO GET THAT GEAR! Oaken soul required no trial or dungeon to run. If it’s so powerful just go and wear it. It’s not like you even need to change classes or it favored range or anything. It could be used for every class and spec.

To me it’s like someone complaining that someone else is using a glove to play baseball, if you need a glove go get a glove. Don’t complain that someone else on the opposing team is using them.

Pve is pass/fail. If you don’t have the dps then that’s it. And there is very little desirable items players can get on their own. So yeah, no one is going to complain, because everyone needs every advantage they can get.

If in pvp someone is wearing a piece of op gear, like you claim oaken soul is, then go get it. It’s not like you have to run a vet dungeon. All pvp gear can be acquired from just playing. I don’t know of any gear that say requires a player to be emperor for example. Pve is not that straight forward. And the places for lower end pve players to get gear is becoming scarcer with each patch.

Next time you want to cheer for a pvp nerf, how about figuring out a way to make sure it’s a pvp ONLY nerf. And leave pve out of it. Players there need all the help they can get.

That is very biased opinion. There shouldn't be items in game that are required in order to do PVE/PVP...
Oakensoul in live currently is gamebreaking OP.

For example I don't want to buy this chapter to be able to do content or compete with other players. (Thats literally p2w)

Sets should be different and yes ofc some are more powerful but we re after balance here and oakensoul is strongest item ever existed in eso, which is as far from balance as something can be.

I hope devs will do more testing next time before releasing such abomination to live servers.

Dawnblade · July 2022

kuldar1994 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

None! I am not sure if you’ve noticed but the amount of people who can do modern dungeons and trials keeps getting smaller and smaller because the dps requirements keep going up. Meanwhile the common player keeps getting nerfed, nerfs that pvp players cheer for.

If you are fighting someone, and the problem is they have better gear, GO GET THAT GEAR! Oaken soul required no trial or dungeon to run. If it’s so powerful just go and wear it. It’s not like you even need to change classes or it favored range or anything. It could be used for every class and spec.

To me it’s like someone complaining that someone else is using a glove to play baseball, if you need a glove go get a glove. Don’t complain that someone else on the opposing team is using them.

Pve is pass/fail. If you don’t have the dps then that’s it. And there is very little desirable items players can get on their own. So yeah, no one is going to complain, because everyone needs every advantage they can get.

If in pvp someone is wearing a piece of op gear, like you claim oaken soul is, then go get it. It’s not like you have to run a vet dungeon. All pvp gear can be acquired from just playing. I don’t know of any gear that say requires a player to be emperor for example. Pve is not that straight forward. And the places for lower end pve players to get gear is becoming scarcer with each patch.

Next time you want to cheer for a pvp nerf, how about figuring out a way to make sure it’s a pvp ONLY nerf. And leave pve out of it. Players there need all the help they can get.

That is very biased opinion. There shouldn't be items in game that are required in order to do PVE/PVP...
Oakensoul in live currently is gamebreaking OP.

For example I don't want to buy this chapter to be able to do content or compete with other players. (Thats literally p2w)

Sets should be different and yes ofc some are more powerful but we re after balance here and oakensoul is strongest item ever existed in eso, which is as far from balance as something can be.

I hope devs will do more testing next time before releasing such abomination to live servers.

They shouldn't release ANYTHING (set, item, skill, etc) that gets nerfed so significantly weeks later - I mean that just screams design failure, or bait and switch, or maybe a bit of both.

Outside of that, as others have pointed out, it isn't as OP as you seem to make it out to be, not OP enough for anyone competent running group content to use it over a better-optimized gear setup with 2 bars of skills.

Beyond the P2W / bait and switch arguments, the rest sounds like 'I used to be able to curb stomp casuals with my leet skills (a large part of which was my gear & such, but let's not talk about that), and now those casuals can put up a fight because of this item, which isn't fair.'

To which I come back to the 'then maybe they should normalize everyone in PVP (same base stats / same choices for gear / skills / etc), and let skill alone be the deciding factor on who wins and who loses.'

jaws343 · July 2022

Dawnblade wrote: »

kuldar1994 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

None! I am not sure if you’ve noticed but the amount of people who can do modern dungeons and trials keeps getting smaller and smaller because the dps requirements keep going up. Meanwhile the common player keeps getting nerfed, nerfs that pvp players cheer for.

If you are fighting someone, and the problem is they have better gear, GO GET THAT GEAR! Oaken soul required no trial or dungeon to run. If it’s so powerful just go and wear it. It’s not like you even need to change classes or it favored range or anything. It could be used for every class and spec.

To me it’s like someone complaining that someone else is using a glove to play baseball, if you need a glove go get a glove. Don’t complain that someone else on the opposing team is using them.

Pve is pass/fail. If you don’t have the dps then that’s it. And there is very little desirable items players can get on their own. So yeah, no one is going to complain, because everyone needs every advantage they can get.

If in pvp someone is wearing a piece of op gear, like you claim oaken soul is, then go get it. It’s not like you have to run a vet dungeon. All pvp gear can be acquired from just playing. I don’t know of any gear that say requires a player to be emperor for example. Pve is not that straight forward. And the places for lower end pve players to get gear is becoming scarcer with each patch.

Next time you want to cheer for a pvp nerf, how about figuring out a way to make sure it’s a pvp ONLY nerf. And leave pve out of it. Players there need all the help they can get.

That is very biased opinion. There shouldn't be items in game that are required in order to do PVE/PVP...
Oakensoul in live currently is gamebreaking OP.

For example I don't want to buy this chapter to be able to do content or compete with other players. (Thats literally p2w)

Sets should be different and yes ofc some are more powerful but we re after balance here and oakensoul is strongest item ever existed in eso, which is as far from balance as something can be.

I hope devs will do more testing next time before releasing such abomination to live servers.

They shouldn't release ANYTHING (set, item, skill, etc) that gets nerfed so significantly weeks later - I mean that just screams design failure, or bait and switch, or maybe a bit of both.

Outside of that, as others have pointed out, it isn't as OP as you seem to make it out to be, not OP enough for anyone competent running group content to use it over a better-optimized gear setup with 2 bars of skills.

Beyond the P2W / bait and switch arguments, the rest sounds like 'I used to be able to curb stomp casuals with my leet skills (a large part of which was my gear & such, but let's not talk about that), and now those casuals can put up a fight because of this item, which isn't fair.'

To which I come back to the 'then maybe they should normalize everyone in PVP (same base stats / same choices for gear / skills / etc), and let skill alone be the deciding factor on who wins and who loses.'

"Significantly"...

Major Protection to Minor Protection: 10% damage reduction to 5%. And, you can not easily slot a skill to get Major protection and have 15% reduction. Something you couldn't do before.

Major Heroism to Minor Heroism: 3 ult every 1.5 seconds to 1 ult every 1.5 seconds. Major Heroism was incredibly broken. With builds that could chain ults together and not lose any tooltip damage. I had a build put together than dropped a meteor every 14 seconds and the meteor had the same damage as if I were full glass cannon two bar build, and I was running full ult gen sets.

Major Berserk to Minor Berserk: 10% damage done to 5% damage done. Firstly, Major berserk was stupidly strong, and only really available through Ult synergies or with specific conditions from sets/skills. So, still available with a gear set and now stacks with Minor. 5% damage done is still pretty strong.

Major Force to Minor Force: 20% crit damage to 10% crit damage. Still a lot. 10% crit damage is a lot. Also another Major buff that is incredibly difficult to have good uptime on. And the minor version can still stack with Major, and is the one most two bar builds have by slotting a skill.

Major Courage to Minor Courage: 430 WD/SD to 215 WD/SD. This is nothing. And, now you get even more power because your healer in a group can give you Major Courage to stack.

None of these changes are in any way significant. And all of the changes allow you to buff yourself more by now being able to stack the major version with the minor versions. So, not only are the changes barely anything, you can make even more powerful builds with a little creativity and group synergy.

BlueRaven · July 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

kuldar1994 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Please now, tell me what sets that PVE players have called out as too strong for them over the last year. Called out enough to request those sets be nerfed before they went live as they knew that their power was overtuned.

None! I am not sure if you’ve noticed but the amount of people who can do modern dungeons and trials keeps getting smaller and smaller because the dps requirements keep going up. Meanwhile the common player keeps getting nerfed, nerfs that pvp players cheer for.

If you are fighting someone, and the problem is they have better gear, GO GET THAT GEAR! Oaken soul required no trial or dungeon to run. If it’s so powerful just go and wear it. It’s not like you even need to change classes or it favored range or anything. It could be used for every class and spec.

To me it’s like someone complaining that someone else is using a glove to play baseball, if you need a glove go get a glove. Don’t complain that someone else on the opposing team is using them.

Pve is pass/fail. If you don’t have the dps then that’s it. And there is very little desirable items players can get on their own. So yeah, no one is going to complain, because everyone needs every advantage they can get.

If in pvp someone is wearing a piece of op gear, like you claim oaken soul is, then go get it. It’s not like you have to run a vet dungeon. All pvp gear can be acquired from just playing. I don’t know of any gear that say requires a player to be emperor for example. Pve is not that straight forward. And the places for lower end pve players to get gear is becoming scarcer with each patch.

Next time you want to cheer for a pvp nerf, how about figuring out a way to make sure it’s a pvp ONLY nerf. And leave pve out of it. Players there need all the help they can get.

That is very biased opinion. There shouldn't be items in game that are required in order to do PVE/PVP...
Oakensoul in live currently is gamebreaking OP.

For example I don't want to buy this chapter to be able to do content or compete with other players. (Thats literally p2w)

Sets should be different and yes ofc some are more powerful but we re after balance here and oakensoul is strongest item ever existed in eso, which is as far from balance as something can be.

I hope devs will do more testing next time before releasing such abomination to live servers.

They shouldn't release ANYTHING (set, item, skill, etc) that gets nerfed so significantly weeks later - I mean that just screams design failure, or bait and switch, or maybe a bit of both.

Outside of that, as others have pointed out, it isn't as OP as you seem to make it out to be, not OP enough for anyone competent running group content to use it over a better-optimized gear setup with 2 bars of skills.

Beyond the P2W / bait and switch arguments, the rest sounds like 'I used to be able to curb stomp casuals with my leet skills (a large part of which was my gear & such, but let's not talk about that), and now those casuals can put up a fight because of this item, which isn't fair.'

To which I come back to the 'then maybe they should normalize everyone in PVP (same base stats / same choices for gear / skills / etc), and let skill alone be the deciding factor on who wins and who loses.'

"Significantly"...

Major Protection to Minor Protection: 10% damage reduction to 5%. And, you can not easily slot a skill to get Major protection and have 15% reduction. Something you couldn't do before.

Major Heroism to Minor Heroism: 3 ult every 1.5 seconds to 1 ult every 1.5 seconds. Major Heroism was incredibly broken. With builds that could chain ults together and not lose any tooltip damage. I had a build put together than dropped a meteor every 14 seconds and the meteor had the same damage as if I were full glass cannon two bar build, and I was running full ult gen sets.

Major Berserk to Minor Berserk: 10% damage done to 5% damage done. Firstly, Major berserk was stupidly strong, and only really available through Ult synergies or with specific conditions from sets/skills. So, still available with a gear set and now stacks with Minor. 5% damage done is still pretty strong.

Major Force to Minor Force: 20% crit damage to 10% crit damage. Still a lot. 10% crit damage is a lot. Also another Major buff that is incredibly difficult to have good uptime on. And the minor version can still stack with Major, and is the one most two bar builds have by slotting a skill.

Major Courage to Minor Courage: 430 WD/SD to 215 WD/SD. This is nothing. And, now you get even more power because your healer in a group can give you Major Courage to stack.

None of these changes are in any way significant. And all of the changes allow you to buff yourself more by now being able to stack the major version with the minor versions. So, not only are the changes barely anything, you can make even more powerful builds with a little creativity and group synergy.

Every little bit counts for pve, especially for the lower end dps players.

Do you think pugs have synergy?

Do you think low level players have the ability or facility to get “creative” with their available gear?

And if it is not “significant”, then why change it at all?

BlueRaven · July 2022

Just to add;

In pvp you get gear and currency, even if your faction gets completely destroyed. You can lose all your keeps, scrolls, etc. and pvp players still have access to get all pvp gear regardless of rank. Pvp players even receive currency to get monster helms and shoulders. And pvp players can go solo or be in a group to get these rewards.

There is no equivalent in pve, there is no “well you were completely ineffectual but here is a participation prize” waiting for them in the dungeon. There is no “well you failed but here is some currency for a fancy monster helm”. There is maybe a few sets, amoung the myriad of dud sets, that can be crafted to help, but pvp players have the same resources.

Look at these forums, how many threads complaint of sub 10k dps, meanwhile some pvp player who loses a 1vx complains about gear being op while they refuse to upgrade their own. They would rather suck the life out of some commonly acquired gear then just adapt and get it for themselves.

Casul · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

Just to add;

In pvp you get gear and currency, even if your faction gets completely destroyed. You can lose all your keeps, scrolls, etc. and pvp players still have access to get all pvp gear regardless of rank. Pvp players even receive currency to get monster helms and shoulders. And pvp players can go solo or be in a group to get these rewards.

There is no equivalent in pve, there is no “well you were completely ineffectual but here is a participation prize” waiting for them in the dungeon. There is no “well you failed but here is some currency for a fancy monster helm”. There is maybe a few sets, amoung the myriad of dud sets, that can be crafted to help, but pvp players have the same resources.

Look at these forums, how many threads complaint of sub 10k dps, meanwhile some pvp player who loses a 1vx complains about gear being op while they refuse to upgrade their own. They would rather suck the life out of some commonly acquired gear then just adapt and get it for themselves.

When PvE is allowed 2 random monster sets per week you can make those comparisons.

DrSlaughtr · July 2022

BlueRaven wrote: »

Just to add;

In pvp you get gear and currency, even if your faction gets completely destroyed. You can lose all your keeps, scrolls, etc. and pvp players still have access to get all pvp gear regardless of rank. Pvp players even receive currency to get monster helms and shoulders. And pvp players can go solo or be in a group to get these rewards.

There is no equivalent in pve, there is no “well you were completely ineffectual but here is a participation prize” waiting for them in the dungeon. There is no “well you failed but here is some currency for a fancy monster helm”. There is maybe a few sets, amoung the myriad of dud sets, that can be crafted to help, but pvp players have the same resources.

Look at these forums, how many threads complaint of sub 10k dps, meanwhile some pvp player who loses a 1vx complains about gear being op while they refuse to upgrade their own. They would rather suck the life out of some commonly acquired gear then just adapt and get it for themselves.

Hold up.

You're only getting purple gear for getting tier 1, which still requires you to earn AP. It's also only pvp gear jewelry, most pieces of which are not useful.

99% of the monster sets in the game are useless for PVP which means 99% of the time the golden is useless.

It's absolutely more efficient to run a vet dungeon for a helm than wait months+ for it to be available in golden. They should allow normal dungeons to drop blue helms though, and keys should let you buy the exact shoulder you want.

As far as the golden gold gear you can buy, the lineup is also 99% of you time useless but when it's a good set that's bind on equip, it actually helps people who don't pvp or can't farm gold jewelry, because you can buy in traders.

Any time a single set completely overtakes the game, that is the perfect indicated that it is overperforming. You've already bullied people who didn't want to abandon 2 bars to switch to oak in order to compete. Most of the people being honest about it's power level actually are using the ring because if you don't, you are severely behind the competition on most builds.

BlueRaven · July 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Just to add;

In pvp you get gear and currency, even if your faction gets completely destroyed. You can lose all your keeps, scrolls, etc. and pvp players still have access to get all pvp gear regardless of rank. Pvp players even receive currency to get monster helms and shoulders. And pvp players can go solo or be in a group to get these rewards.

There is no equivalent in pve, there is no “well you were completely ineffectual but here is a participation prize” waiting for them in the dungeon. There is no “well you failed but here is some currency for a fancy monster helm”. There is maybe a few sets, amoung the myriad of dud sets, that can be crafted to help, but pvp players have the same resources.

Look at these forums, how many threads complaint of sub 10k dps, meanwhile some pvp player who loses a 1vx complains about gear being op while they refuse to upgrade their own. They would rather suck the life out of some commonly acquired gear then just adapt and get it for themselves.

Hold up.

You're only getting purple gear for getting tier 1, which still requires you to earn AP. It's also only pvp gear jewelry, most pieces of which are not useful.

99% of the monster sets in the game are useless for PVP which means 99% of the time the golden is useless.

It's absolutely more efficient to run a vet dungeon for a helm than wait months+ for it to be available in golden. They should allow normal dungeons to drop blue helms though, and keys should let you buy the exact shoulder you want.

As far as the golden gold gear you can buy, the lineup is also 99% of you time useless but when it's a good set that's bind on equip, it actually helps people who don't pvp or can't farm gold jewelry, because you can buy in traders.

Any time a single set completely overtakes the game, that is the perfect indicated that it is overperforming. You've already bullied people who didn't want to abandon 2 bars to switch to oak in order to compete. Most of the people being honest about it's power level actually are using the ring because if you don't, you are severely behind the competition on most builds.

Well you can't just change other aspects of the game, and you can't just assume a low end player has access to vet dungeon rewards. There is no avenue for it other then the golden vendor for 100k(?) in gold, and even then they may not be able to redo the trait as there access to the gear change currency is severely limited. There has been many threads pointing out that cyrodiil gives out that currency much faster then pve sources.

Saying that the pvp gear is bad... Are you saying ALL pvp gear is bad? If not they pvp players have access to it. I don't even think it is bind to account right? So they can buy it from a guild vendor? Unlike dungeon sets which are locked behind the dungeons themselves. The self same dungeons the player may not have the dps for.

And we are not talking about a set here, it is one item that does not require any type of group content to get.

If everyone gets the ring, that levels the playing field in pvp right? Is this a bad thing? Is pvp dependent on gear inequality? A new player is already thrown in with the sharks to learn how to swim. Will a nerw player even know the difference if they don't have the ring yet?

I get steam rolled all the time in pvp, I have never wrote a thread asking for nerfs. I could not tell if they had the ring or not, and quite frankly I don't care. It's just the way pvp is. In a fight, one side will most likely get killed. But as a poster up above puts it:

"the rest sounds like 'I used to be able to curb stomp casuals with my leet skills (a large part of which was my gear & such, but let's not talk about that), and now those casuals can put up a fight because of this item, which isn't fair.'"

My personal view of pvp complaints is like seeing scissors saying "Nerf rock, paper is fine."