Oakensoul nerf

Weisstag

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Toxic_Hemlock

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot, nor do I want to compete, with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Edit to add the damage nerf bothers me less than the protection loss TBH.

Alchimiste1

The nerf is fine. I don't think the ring was ever intended to truly compete and, in some situation, just be better than 2 bar builds. If 80% + of the current cyrodiil population is using the ring then I think it's doing more than just allowing people with disabilities to enjoy the game.

From my perspective these changes are acceptable.

Weisstag

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot nor do I want to compete with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Don't you see the problem here? If I take the ring, I become God... I will whip players for 15-20k on average while not taking any damage essentially, I will Incap people for 10-15k, I will get 100k+ DPS parse on dummy with minimal effort every single time... it's not like other people can't use it man. The item is still very usable for casual content. You saying 5% locks you out of content is your own factually wrong bias. I'm sorry but let's just agree to disagree here.

Toxic_Hemlock

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot nor do I want to compete with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Don't you see the problem here? If I take the ring, I become God... I will whip players for 15-20k on average while not taking any damage essentially, I will Incap people for 10-15k, I will get 100k+ DPS parse on dummy with minimal effort every single time... it's not like other people can't use it man. The item is still very usable for casual content. You saying 5% locks you out of content is your own factually wrong bias. I'm sorry but let's just agree to disagree here.

Ah finally the meat of the problem...

I don't attack PLAYERS, hence I will never do a whip on another player!

If your beef with it is in PvP then the devs need to just turn it off or reduce the power of it in PvP and we will both be happy it seems.

FENGRUSH

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot, nor do I want to compete, with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Edit to add the damage nerf bothers me less than the protection loss TBH.

Uber Elite players are ones that dont continue to stand in the red? People that stand in the red are the target audience? People reacting to the mechanics of the dungeon are not the target audience?

Toxic_Hemlock

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot, nor do I want to compete, with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Edit to add the damage nerf bothers me less than the protection loss TBH.

Uber Elite players are ones that dont continue to stand in the red? People that stand in the red are the target audience? People reacting to the mechanics of the dungeon are not the target audience?

I don't get your arguments here. I was saying that I, in no way, want to even try to compete with the elites in the game, that I can only assume never stand in the red. It would be nice to do some vet content eventually from my point of view though. And yes people that make mistakes in combat are the target audience IMO, and those that have a hard time changing bars etc.

FrankonPC

Good changes. Mythic is still very strong imo, but if it's an accessibility mythic as everyone claims it is, it also shouldn't double down as the best dmg in the game...which is what it was doing.

FrankonPC

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Exactly

ccfeeling

Just like Thrassian Stranglers and Ring of the Pale Order, nerf until no one use it.

Dev, mine your big data, how many sets you destroyed in game.

I don't wanna chase Meta, but I don't see many choices.

Alchimiste1

ccfeeling wrote: »

Just like Thrassian Stranglers and Ring of the Pale Order, nerf until no one use it.

Dev, mine your big data, how many sets you destroyed in game.

I don't wanna chase Meta, but I don't see many choices.

? I know some very good players that use both lol.

merpins

Lapin_Logic

Remathilis wrote: »

Oakensoul: This set now grants the Minor versions of Courage, Berserk, Force, Protection, and Heroism, rather than the Major versions. This set now also grants Minor Mending.

Is that good enough for the PvP crowd or do we need to drag it down to Adept Rider status?

Methinks this was probably the buff list it was meant to have and someone's finger slipped, they can keep it the old way if they give it away in even bags and at the Impressario cos I'm done with farming 3 month relevancy sets, Bring on the new True balance, at least everyone else will be hitting as hard as me.

BlueRaven

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Weisstag wrote: »

For everyone who feels like this nerf isn't justified - this ring is supposed to be an accessibility tool for people with disabilities, older players who can't play as effectively and casual players who don't aim to be competitive.
These group of players will still be able to complete same content as they were participating in up until now.
This item isn't supposed to be an easy mode for both pve and pvp. If you can't understand this, your opinion isn't valid.
Oakensoul will still let players do 70-80% of the dps you get when playing with 2 bars.
This item is supposed to let groups of previously mentioned people not be left in the dust, it's not supposed to let you compete with high end sweatty player parses. It's not supposed to let you one shot players with molten whip in pvp. It's not supposed to make you stronger than everyone who is not using it.
This was never supposed to be a "one ring to rule them all"... it's an accessibility tool.

I don't agree at all here. As the target audience it wasn't that I could not do the content I was already doing, as it still remains the same. The ring allowed me to step outside of my comfort zone and try harder content. Now it just gives me a way to do the stuff I was already doing, so meh, not exactly the direction I wanted to see it go in.

so what you are saying is that by losing:
5% damage done, 5% damage reduction, 200 weapon/spell damage and 10% critical damage
you can't participate in harder content? how does that make sense? you will lose about 10% dps on this specific item compared to last patch, that's doesn't stop you from doing veteran content.

Want I am saying is that those abilities gave me MORE of a cushion for when I accidently stood in red for too long or ran face first into a bad encounter.

I cannot, nor do I want to compete, with the uber-elites, but any advantage means I might be better at some content I don't do normally.

So yes that 5% damage and protection DOES make a difference to ME, if it does not to you, then you are NOT the target audience.

Edit to add the damage nerf bothers me less than the protection loss TBH.

I agree.

For the first time I felt brave enough to do some types of content I would never have dared try before.

Now, after the nerf to class abilities, AND the nerf to the oak ring… Well it’s back to just doing overland dailies and a bit of housing.

At least it was fun while it lasted.

Arcanasx

It was inevitable that they were going to take the one mythic to rule them all and throw it into the fires of Mt. Nerf. No surprise here.

Prospero_ESO

Why are we even arguing, it´s the same procedure as every year James. ZOS wants to sell their DLC/Addons, introduce intentionally something obviously broken, when they made their money, nerfs incoming. Warden, Necromancer, Oakensoul, the story continues. It is so boring, disgusting, shameless, and disingenuous it just wants to make me throw up.

Holycannoli

Shiggorath wrote: »

ZOS. just turn the stupid ring off for pvp. This ring gives solo causal players the opportunity to have fun with all your content. I refuse to waste more money on this game of which I have bought so many 21000 crown packs. I just will not do it and play for free. You’ll make no money and be forced to shut down when your bottom line drops. I have petitioned so many times to buy houses and items using real cash. Now I see the mistake. I wish you luck filling out unemployment papers. I wish you would just turn the ring off or add a warning to remove it to go to pvp like you turn off champion points. Problem solved. Use your heads for once. Otherwise I and many others will find the next mmorpg as there are so many to choose from. Good luck with your seriously flawed business model.

I used to agree with this but it's painfully obvious that Oakensoul wasn't nerfed solely because of PvP.

They gutted damage almost across the board and that's not because of PvP.

They don't want people doing as much damage and yet they want to make vet and endgame content more accessible for the average player. You can't make this stuff up lol.

TechMaybeHic

I'm sure it will make content easier for the player by nerfing the player.

Holycannoli

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I'm sure it will make content easier for the player by nerfing the player.

Now you're thinking like a dev.

Wuuffyy

divnyi wrote: »

They had to remove Heroism and leave the rest. It's now dead for PvP.

Crazy balancing. I’m requesting a refund.

ManDraKE

some people actually thought that this ring wouldn't get nerfed? LOL

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Holycannoli

ManDraKE wrote: »

some people actually thought that this ring wouldn't get nerfed? LOL

[snip]

The crazy thing is it already was nerfed, to what we got.

And this nerf is no big deal. It does affect some classes more than others, who could stack minor buffs on top of the major ones that got nerfed. But overall compared to the rest of those patch notes this is no big deal.

[edited to remove quote]

Twohothardware

The only thing Oakensoul needed to lose was the Ultimate regen. That’s it. You’re literally giving up your entire back bar of skills and back bar weapon to run this.

These swath of nerfs just means no one’s going to use it now which is a shame because Oakensoul at least patches the Cyrodiil bug where your bar never swaps in ZOS’s 10000 ping combat.

Wuuffyy

Twohothardware wrote: »

The only thing Oakensoul needed to lose was the Ultimate regen. That’s it. You’re literally giving up your entire back bar of skills and back bar weapon to run this.

These swath of nerfs just means no one’s going to use it now which is a shame because Oakensoul at least patches the Cyrodiil bug where your bar never swaps in ZOS’s 10000 ping combat.

Very much agree with this. And I’m a competent player and only liked it for that reason, being able to compete when in cyrodill with more than 2 alliance bars.

Stx

I like how everyone assumes the only reason to use oakensoul was because you weren't good enough to weapon swap..

How about because its MORE FUN to play with it? I much prefer having only 5 slots for skills as long as those 5 skills can be active attacks or heals, rather than 10 slots where 3 or 4 of those slots are mandatory buffs. Re-casting buffs in combat is boring and tedious. Oakensoul was just a huge quality of life item that made the game more fun to me.

With these nerfs, I think it will still be worth running on some classes, but not others. Which to me is a poor design. On my templar, I have very easy access to minor protection and minor mending, so this devalues the ring heavily. I don't think I would ever run this on a templar as it currently is. Minor force and berserk are too easy to get as well, and minor courage doesn't make up for a backbar weapon damage glyph. Not to mention you can run another mythic like serpents or pale order.

BlueRaven

Stx wrote: »

I like how everyone assumes the only reason to use oakensoul was because you weren't good enough to weapon swap..

How about because its MORE FUN to play with it? I much prefer having only 5 slots for skills as long as those 5 skills can be active attacks or heals, rather than 10 slots where 3 or 4 of those slots are mandatory buffs. Re-casting buffs in combat is boring and tedious. Oakensoul was just a huge quality of life item that made the game more fun to me.

With these nerfs, I think it will still be worth running on some classes, but not others. Which to me is a poor design. On my templar, I have very easy access to minor protection and minor mending, so this devalues the ring heavily. I don't think I would ever run this on a templar as it currently is. Minor force and berserk are too easy to get as well, and minor courage doesn't make up for a backbar weapon damage glyph. Not to mention you can run another mythic like serpents or pale order.

Totally agree. I like the single bar playstyle so much more.

karekiz

Remove heroism entirely.

TechMaybeHic

Stx wrote: »

I like how everyone assumes the only reason to use oakensoul was because you weren't good enough to weapon swap..

How about because its MORE FUN to play with it? I much prefer having only 5 slots for skills as long as those 5 skills can be active attacks or heals, rather than 10 slots where 3 or 4 of those slots are mandatory buffs. Re-casting buffs in combat is boring and tedious. Oakensoul was just a huge quality of life item that made the game more fun to me.

With these nerfs, I think it will still be worth running on some classes, but not others. Which to me is a poor design. On my templar, I have very easy access to minor protection and minor mending, so this devalues the ring heavily. I don't think I would ever run this on a templar as it currently is. Minor force and berserk are too easy to get as well, and minor courage doesn't make up for a backbar weapon damage glyph. Not to mention you can run another mythic like serpents or pale order.

They literally said in the PTS notes the intention of the ring was accessibility. Sure; it has some merit of fun to not have to worry about it, but that was not their intended reason.

I still think they could have just got rid of major heroism and berserk completely and left the rest alone and it would have been neutral enough. But it should not have been meta

Wildbloom

Stx wrote: »

I like how everyone assumes the only reason to use oakensoul was because you weren't good enough to weapon swap..

How about because its MORE FUN to play with it? I much prefer having only 5 slots for skills as long as those 5 skills can be active attacks or heals, rather than 10 slots where 3 or 4 of those slots are mandatory buffs. Re-casting buffs in combat is boring and tedious. Oakensoul was just a huge quality of life item that made the game more fun to me.

I really hate to admit that I fell into the category of "buy the expansion for Oakensoul", but that's exactly what I did.

I quit in 2019 because I realized I hated the combat. Swapping weapons to juggle a handful of DoTs and buffs was not fun to me at all anymore. So when I saw there was an item that could make me viable while making it so I only needed to use one weapon, I was immediately sold. I was so convinced that this would fix the combat and make the game fun again.

And I was right!

I love this thing. Being a powerhouse while also only using 6 skills is a blessing. I can finally enjoy my favorite MMO without the combat holding back my enjoyment. Yes, I was able to weapon swap and still do great damage. The two-bar playstyle was absolutely accessible to me. But it was so un-fun that I quit the game entierly.

That said, the nerfs aren't enough to get me to quit using it. I don't do content that requires min-maxing (vet dungeons at most), and it still provides a landslide of strong buffs, just now a few of those are weaker versions. As long as it's remotely viable, I'll keep using it.

Yarcanine

The ring became OP on certain classes when they moved away from giving it buffs normally run on the backbar and instead gave it very powerful ones like Major Heroism and Force. This nerf is a bit heavy handed though, I still don't think heroism belongs on it even minor. Everything should be kept as is except Major Heroism/Force should be replaced with Major Expedition and Minor Force as a replacement for Race Against Time.