What are you thoughts on having consequences upon death in ESO ?

rpa

No please, Here is why :

ESO is a MMO, not a PvP survival grinder. That genre interests rather limited audience.

Gnesnig

Yes please, Here is why:

JKorr wrote: »

No, and just in case, Oh HECK NO.

Want new players to run away screaming?

As a 51 year old newbie that started in March, first gaming experience on Atari Pong machines, nintendo 8-bit, c-64/128, sega 16 and so on, please don't think of me a little kid that is helpless, can't find his way and throws a hissy fit.

fred4

No please, Here is why :

Imagine this in PvP. How would you ever learn anything?

I had an issue or mental block, call it what you will, with the final boss in vMA. It took me 3 years to learn that arena. I was stuck on the final boss for a sizeable part of that. My DPS was not high. I could never experience much of the mechanics of the final part of the fight, after returning down from donut, before I died. Then I got reset to the beginning of the fight, not back to that phase. It was a nightmare. How much worse would it be with your rules?

With a game designed from the ground up around such rules I might feel differently. ESO is not that game.

essi2

No please, Here is why :

NO!

cynicalbutterfly

No please, Here is why :

No. It just isn't designed for it and nor should it be. This isn't Elden Ring or Dark Souls.

Gnesnig

Yes please, Here is why:

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

jaws343

No please, Here is why :

This might be the most cohesive this community has ever been lol.

TaSheen

No please, Here is why :

Gnesnig wrote: »

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

No thank you. The game is perfect for me the way it is. I have no interest in being forced to do harder content.

Gnesnig

Yes please, Here is why:

TaSheen wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

No thank you. The game is perfect for me the way it is. I have no interest in being forced to do harder content.

I guess you missed I added dolmens. They are not "hard" content by any means. Just spend an hour on prime time in Alik'r or Auridon and the hardest part about it is knowing the route and hitting a mob.

AcadianPaladin

No please, Here is why :

Flexibility that accounts for differing preferences and play styles is important in a large game. It much easier for those who want consequences to 'self-create' such consequences in a game that does not have them than for those who don't want consequences to deal with them if the game has them. Want consequences and the game doesn't have them? Carry a stack of 200 soul gems. If you use one, you have to destroy the other 199. Or, if you die, you must sell whatever head gear you are wearing to a merchant. Want to play full 'Iron Man'? If you die, delete your character. These are the kinds of things Oblivion and Skyrim players who did not have access to mods sometimes did.

xaraan

No please, Here is why :

No thanks.

First off half the players in pvp are already afraid to fight, it would just mean more people running from a challenge and only fighting a sure thing (and even more zerging). I mean, IC is a good peak into why this system doesn't work.

But mostly the game is designed with death in mind. There are some mechs in trials and dungeons that are impossible to figure out without dying and redoing it a bunch of times (unless someone else has done it already and made a guide).

Trolling would be an even bigger thing, even in PvE. You'd start seeing trolls do things like leaving people during world boss fights just to screw them over for a laugh. Or stuff like people sitting and watching until the end of a fight to jump in.

Tanking is pretty boring and at times annoying in the game as it is. You think more people will put their lives in the hands of others - healers healing, dps actually killing stuff, if they get more punishment for dying?

Most of the content in the game is already barely worth the reward, add in a punishment for doing it and it becomes a why bother proposition. It would definitely discourage players from trying harder content and pushing themselves to do more in the game.

Doing any kind of "activity" to return to life or recover gear sounds monotonous and boring after the first time.

And last but not least, you think people hate bugs now. Imagine when you are screwed over by the game not working right and causing a death. Happens more often that people think. And there are more and more things added to the game to "get" players that normally would know mechanics, like stuns you can't break out of, dots you can't purge, etc.

There is also nothing stopping a player from doing stuff themselves if they want a "hard mode" - delete your own character and start over every time you die if you want.

EnerG

No please, Here is why :

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

Those are the reasons most games die,or barely hang on.New players would quit as soon as they die and see a reset,or have to walk across map to get their 2 trash items,and hope to not die again.It could also bring in PKers,or people luring mobs to kill other players to loot em,if that was the option.The game is fine and fun as is,no need to completely revamp and kill it off.

Exactly why i quit wow classic, 2 days after my bf bought it for me, straight ick.

Necrotech_Master

No please, Here is why :

Gnesnig wrote: »

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

you already are given soul gems on WB, harrows, dolmens, and public dungeon bosses, virtually every boss in the game gives a soul gem when they die regardless if you had empty ones which is why they stack up so fast

in my 8 years of playing i have never ever bought soul gems from a merchant because they are so plentiful lol

SteamKitten01

No please, Here is why :

No Way. 90%+ of what I do in ESO these days is centered around vet dungeons and trials. We already have a shortage of tanks in this game. If this were implemented it would cause massive hostility to newer and less experienced tanks. All it can take is a single missed heavy and a tank can die and in a second a boss can turn and wipe a group. Now everyone in the trial has to pay for a single person's mistake. No one would want to take new players in their groups any more, afraid that the new person might kill them. Or worse, you get the trolls that purposefully go into groups to bomb them and kill everyone.

Gnesnig

Yes please, Here is why:

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Flexibility that accounts for differing preferences and play styles is important in a large game. It much easier for those who want consequences to 'self-create' such consequences in a game that does not have them than for those who don't want consequences to deal with them if the game has them. Want consequences and the game doesn't have them? Carry a stack of 200 soul gems. If you use one, you have to destroy the other 199. Or, if you die, you must sell whatever head gear you are wearing to a merchant. Want to play full 'Iron Man'? If you die, delete your character. These are the kinds of things Oblivion and Skyrim players who did not have access to mods sometimes did.

Sure, you could. Some would. But look at the overall picture. The game has become too simple, from reading the forums I gather because of the generalisation of skills and levels and the resulting power creep.

A for me current example is the Rivenspire quest line. There's tons of story painting Montclaire as this uber powerful vampire and he dies in a few seconds and my DK tank with only 450-ish CP never visibly lost any health. Ok, I brought Mirri (still wouldn't be a fight of several minutes). The same applies to The Hound in Malabal Tor, with my stam/warden and no companion. There are many examples to name here, where the final boss of the quest line is underwhelming.

Of course, adjusting things now to compensate for this, triggers our loss aversion.

TaSheen

No please, Here is why :

Gnesnig wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

No thank you. The game is perfect for me the way it is. I have no interest in being forced to do harder content.

I guess you missed I added dolmens. They are not "hard" content by any means. Just spend an hour on prime time in Alik'r or Auridon and the hardest part about it is knowing the route and hitting a mob.

I despise dolmens. Always have. I want my daily writs to stay just the way they are. Kind of sounds like you need to play a different game....

Danikat

I think permadeath as an optional challenge mode can be fun, but I wouldn't want it to be the only way to play in a game this big because most people would never get to most of the content. In a lot of games it's something players can do themselves if they want it (just delete the character if they die) but I've not done it in ESO because I think it would be relatively easy to get to level 50 and complete open-world and main story content without dying and in groups it needs everyone in the group to commit to it, otherwise it doesn't really work. If you're lucky they respect the challege but then are effectively carrying you - with everyone else going out of their way to make sure you don't die. If you're unlucky someone will troll you and try to get you killed. So to make it work in this game I think it would need a dedicated server where everyone is playing by the same rules.

The other options...I don't mind when games do that but I wouldn't say it adds anything for me, and I don't think it makes me more cautious or worried about dying either. Admittedly in Valheim I would perodically grind for a second set of equipment just so I could leave it at home in case I died, then use it to retrieve my main set, so it dragged the game out a bit longer, but I'm not sure that's a good thing. (Also it's only really necessary if you're playing solo, if it's a multiplayer game then someone else can escort you out to your body even if you're naked and unarmed, so it becomes nothing but a minor time sink.)

The one exception I can think of is when I died in Ultima Online and my pet unicorn apparently went on a ramage through the bandit fortress I'd been attacking (because it was no longer under my control it reverted to wild and hostile to everything) and almost took down the boss before being killed. Even then I'm just sorry I missed it and had to hear about it from other people because I was busy running back to my body.

Jaimeh

No please, Here is why :

I think these are more suited for single player games. It would be problematic for trials, dungeons, Cyro, etc., to have any of these consequences; people put a lot of hours into their characters and are very attached to them, so deletion would be game-breaking for the majority of players; CP is a huge grind and taking away CP/XP wouldn't sit well with new players especially; equipment does break down and you do need to walk a bit if you die in a trial or dungeon depending on which part it happens, plus, you need soulgems to rez, and deaths also ruin no-death achievements, so there are some consequences in place.

Nestor

No please, Here is why :

Having to Resurrect or be Resurrected is enough of a penalty. The small loss of armor condition is ignorable.

Any of the suggestions in the OP would be enough for me to uninstall the game.

endgamesmug

No please, Here is why :

Is my logic wrong here could well be, but wouldnt everyone be a tank so theyd avoid that dying consequence youre talking about? If ive got that right itd be super boring gameplay in my opinion 😆

DagenHawk

No please, Here is why :

I had a friend who plays the tabletop game Warhammer 40k, his favorite army was the Blood Angels chapter of the Space Marines...he was very dedicated to his army and he believed in consequences...when any of his space marines died, he buried them in his back yard and "Role-played their funerals.....

Okay now translate what I just wrote in 4chan gamer speak...and think of what that type of an opinion on the statement would be.

Then you have my thoughts...

Aislinna

No please, Here is why :

Gnesnig wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

No, and just in case, Oh HECK NO.

Want new players to run away screaming?

As a 51 year old newbie that started in March, first gaming experience on Atari Pong machines, nintendo 8-bit, c-64/128, sega 16 and so on, please don't think of me a little kid that is helpless, can't find his way and throws a hissy fit.

Just WOW that you took so much insult from a general question, not directed to you specifically, about new players.

AcadianPaladin

No please, Here is why :

@Gnesnig it sounds like you are concerned about difficulty of overland content/quest bosses. Though I don't share that particular concern, I can appreciate that many do. I've long felt a difficulty slider is the answer. The game already buffs up characters below L50 so they can operate in a CP160 world. A difficulty slider would simply do the same thing: buff up or debuff characters based on their selection with no need to adjust the world itself. This way, folks that struggle with some quests (and there are those that do) can still complete quests while those looking for more challenge can adjust to get that as well.

WiseSky

Gnesnig wrote: »

There is no real cost for death in the game. Couple that with underwhelming bosses for 99% of the solo content, makes the game seem too easy.

It shouldn't be frustrating, but the way things are now is far too easy and because of the scaling, everything seems generic. At present, I'd say the self life for me is six months as I'm already dreading certain repetative tasks and seeing the same patterns applied in all story lines.

A more stringent penalty for death isn't going to fix all that, but it's a good step towards that.

Your response makes the whole "Harder Overland Feedback" turned on it's head.

I saw lots of comments about how they wish that ESO had an Impactful Overland where people wanted adventures being engaging instead of boring content. Questing and exploring to actually feel exciting because of the difficulty.

But I wondered how truly engaging is it if all your actions have no consequences.

Games like Everquest, Tibia, Asherons call an other typically older MMOs had the feeling of true exploration and compelling overland Mobs as each new area with mobs and each new step was risky as death had consequences.

It's a very small minority of players that have experienced those feelings as they are majorly present in older MMOs and as this poll suggest these are very Unpopular mechanics for a very large population.

In present time we seam to be playing live service games who's main goal is to hook players to stay with making content as accessible for everyone and not make people rage quit once they lose their level and gear due to lag

WiseSky

Gnesnig wrote: »

The suggestions made, I'd also say no.

But what if we take away all filled soul gem rewards, take it away from merchant also. Drastically increase price of empty soul gem. Take empty soul gems and repair kits from crafting writs, and only reward them on WB, harrowstorms, dolmens and public dungeon group event bosses. Just kick it up a notch.

My post was not really a suggestion but more of wanting to know the thoughts of some of these core mechanics being apart of ESO.

If the devs implemented all the ideas I listed, Molag Bal would have his wish finally come true, the end of Tamriel as we know it.

spartaxoxo

No please, Here is why :

WiseSky wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

There is no real cost for death in the game. Couple that with underwhelming bosses for 99% of the solo content, makes the game seem too easy.

It shouldn't be frustrating, but the way things are now is far too easy and because of the scaling, everything seems generic. At present, I'd say the self life for me is six months as I'm already dreading certain repetative tasks and seeing the same patterns applied in all story lines.

A more stringent penalty for death isn't going to fix all that, but it's a good step towards that.

Your response makes the whole "Harder Overland Feedback" turned on it's head.

No. Not really. A big reason for the lack of interest in questing is the lack of risk death as it already exists in vet content. You lose progress on the particular fight when you die, and that's enough. The game doesn't have to be extremely punishing to have a challenge. The vet content in this game is generally well done. It manages to be challenging instead of punishing

MasterSpatula

No please, Here is why :

Even the question feels like an assault. Not just no, but Hell no. Instant unsub and uninstall if it happened. Possible unsub and unstall if I even thought they were thinking of it. No. If I wasn't passionate about the characters I've created, I wouldn't be here in the first place.

TaSheen

No please, Here is why :

WiseSky wrote: »

In present time we seam to be playing live service games who's main goal is to hook players to stay with making content as accessible for everyone and not make people rage quit once they lose their level and gear due to lag

I played a couple of those games - EQ and UO. For about half a day - because there is NOTHING fun about dying before you can figure out what the hell is going on. And then finding out you might not be able to even FIND your corpse as you have no facility with the map, and you don't know anyone who plays the stupid game so you have no one to ask.

ESO forever the way it is RIGHT NOW!! (But I do think a slider for overland difficulty would be a wonderful thing. Not for me - I'm happy the way it is now - but for those who crave some extra hard stuff.)

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Even the question feels like an assault. Not just no, but Hell no. Instant unsub and uninstall if it happened. Possible unsub and unstall if I even thought they were thinking of it. No. If I wasn't passionate about the characters I've created, I wouldn't be here in the first place.

Right there with you. I'd be gone in a hot minute.

KMarble

No please, Here is why :

Some time ago I found a streamer who was doing a permadeath series on his stream. He plays a game that is very similar to ESO. This guy is an extremely good player with very deep knowledge of the game he plays and all the classes available. He never got to the equivalent of CP level on any of the characters he created. None.

Over time both him and his audience became tired of characters being deleted and the story never getting completed. Mind you, that game offers many more different starting stories than ESO.

I suggest that you, OP, do some permadeath runs. To make it closer to the suggestions you gave, you cannot use any CP points until the char reaches 50, no gold other than what that char gets through playing and no gear that wasn't acquired through playing that char.
Once your char dies, you'll have to delete it and everything that is in the char's body/inventory.

Please let me know how long you last before going back to playing how the game was designed.

Kiralyn2000

No please, Here is why :

Losing gear/progress/etc doesn't make the game "harder", "more complex", or "more engaging". It just adds more wasted time of grinding & farming. Overland doesn't become harder if there's a penalty for the rare accidental death. It's still "too easy" for the pros.

(Just like it wouldn't make a game harder if, when you die, you break a finger. The game's still easy, you just have to wait a few weeks until you could play again.)


This also makes the game miserable for people who aren't as uber as you are. Or who have issues with bugs, or disconnects, or laggy internet, or... (oh, yeah, wouldn't that be great - do a vet dungeon, get DC'd at the boss, and log back in to find yourself outside the dungeon, having lost all your gear inside it.)