Male Companions

BretonMage

Syldras wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I think it's not a bad idea to design a more easygoing character next year, but I would not like to see a womanising personality like Darien or Jakarn. This has associations with unpleasant real world issues and would leave a very sour taste in my mouth. Razum Dar? Sure.

There's a quest in Elsweyr that's basically about Razum-dar being in trouble because he had an affair with three young sisters, promised each of them marriage and then just dumped them. There's even a crown store pet jokingly implying that his affairs often get pregnant, want him to care for the children - but he just sells them:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Ja'khajiit_Raz

Et tu, Razum-dar. Yikes.

TaSheen

@Lady Titania

Lady_Titania wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Well.... I find Verandis, Rian Liore, and Jakarn totally awful. All of them. Eww. Though I do have to say Rian Liore is just not attractive, and not over-intelligent.

Verandis is ugly, and a vampire. Jakarn is a simpering womanizer. Just UGH.

I am interested in hearing other players opinions of liked/loved NPC's we've encountered in ESO. Debating about it is just silly. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I love Verandis, and completely understand that others will find him distasteful. If there is an NPC in ESO that you personally liked/loved during your adventures, I'd love to hear your opinions.

Elam Drals.

AzuraFan

Curious how most in the thread assume that male players want female companions, and female players want male companions. If it's about eye candy, that would only apply to straight folks. From what I've seen, there are plenty of LGB folks who play the game. Also, not everyone sees the companions as eye candy or potential romantic/flirty partners. Some don't see them as anything except an extra pair of hands in a fight, or perhaps as an adventuring buddy.

I'm female and I prefer female companions. I've seen some male players (both straight and gay) say they prefer males. As for the card game, why would females be less inclined to like the card game? I know plenty of women who play cards.

I don't think the gender of the companions or the card game is a male vs. female thing (I'm sure ZOS knows lots of females play ESO). I expect the genders of the companions will be balanced out at some point.

Lady_Titania

AzuraFan wrote: »

Curious how most in the thread assume that male players want female companions, and female players want male companions. If it's about eye candy, that would only apply to straight folks. From what I've seen, there are plenty of LGB folks who play the game. Also, not everyone sees the companions as eye candy or potential romantic/flirty partners. Some don't see them as anything except an extra pair of hands in a fight, or perhaps as an adventuring buddy.

I'm female and I prefer female companions. I've seen some male players (both straight and gay) say they prefer males. As for the card game, why would females be less inclined to like the card game? I know plenty of women who play cards.

I don't think the gender of the companions or the card game is a male vs. female thing (I'm sure ZOS knows lots of females play ESO). I expect the genders of the companions will be balanced out at some point.

Within the thread, there are opinions from a variety of players indicating why they too would like a male companion, and they've expressed their preferences, weather its for eye candy, possible romance, having a battle buddy, etc. We also had people, who like you, enjoy having female companions, and agree that there should still be a balance between males and females

As a side note, I find ToT really fun so I too don't get the whole "females less inclined to like the card game" comment. That's going off topic though as this thread is about the lack of male companions.

Syldras

Treselegant wrote: »

Yes, I think a nod is about the level we got with this one. Even the one male companion we have has less comments and less care with his integration into the world than the others. It's hard not to feel a little like an after thought. As for cards, well, there maybe many female card players out there but I do not doubt for a second they are vastly outnumbered by their male counterparts.

I'm male, by the way, but, if it's any consolation, I'm not that happy with High Isle either, obviously. The story content seems okay, the landscape is nice, so is the music, and I like that there are some new little details they developed to make the world seem more alive (like moving ships, people riding horses, or that you actually hand your map to questgivers, so they can mark locations). I don't care for famous voice actors, though, I prefer male companions (especially if they really include romance somewhen in future), I like some card games (I loved TES Legends, by the way) - but not this one. And what I dislike most, as I said, is the excessive flirting (without any way to stop it), no matter if it comes from male or female NPCs. It's so obtrusive. And all thoses innuendos, that bawdiness everywhere... It's just not what I like. And I especially find it unfortunate that they didn't consider that all this aggressive "flirting" would be really uncomfortable for some people (mostly women) because of "real world issues", as @BretonMage worded it. Even considering romance, I would very much prefer a highly intelligent, eloquent and thoughtful guy over someone who screams "Hey handsome!" at my face every two minutes, or offers me to spend the night although we've just met a minute ago. I'm wondering if ZOS can't imagine romance/flirting without tacky dialogues? Then I'm worried how companion romance will turn out, really.

So, in the end, I wouldn't say High Isle was marketed towards men, but rather towards a certain type of man. Or not only men, even, as there are also women who like excessive flirting and innuendo. Well, actually I'm not sure what they were thinking; the only thing I can say is that I'm obviously not part of the target demographic.

BretonMage wrote: »

Et tu, Razum-dar. Yikes.

It's awful, isn't it? Especially as they obviously think of it as "humouristic". I'm not sure how someone could think that that's an appropriate joke.

Treselegant

As a side note, I find ToT really fun so I too don't get the whole "females less inclined to like the card game" comment. That's going off topic though as this thread is about the lack of male companions.

Another poster mentioned that they felt some of the games features, ie. companions were being aimed at male players. I agreed and mentioned I had that feeling overall in regards High Isle. So it makes sense in regards to the rest of the conversation whether you agree or not.

Lady_Titania

Treselegant wrote: »

As a side note, I find ToT really fun so I too don't get the whole "females less inclined to like the card game" comment. That's going off topic though as this thread is about the lack of male companions.

Another poster mentioned that they felt some of the games features, ie. companions were being aimed at male players. I agreed and mentioned I had that feeling overall in regards High Isle. So it makes sense in regards to the rest of the conversation whether you agree or not.

There was some discussion, somewhere at the start of the tread, that it may have been that a poll indicated that players preferred Mirri over Bastion, and ZOS may have believe that this was because she was female.

Lugaldu

As for the card game... not sure if this discussion relates to my comment, but it was generally about the percentage of male versus female Patrons in the decks, not about the question if women like playing cards less than men (which would be an absurd assumption). I don't know if the ESO Patrons refer to the Roman patronage or to a patron saint in general - in the latter case there could have been female patrons as well.

AzuraFan

Lady_Titania wrote: »

Within the thread, there are opinions from a variety of players indicating why they too would like a male companion, and they've expressed their preferences, weather its for eye candy, possible romance, having a battle buddy, etc. We also had people, who like you, enjoy having female companions, and agree that there should still be a balance between males and females

Er, yeah, that's exactly what I said in my post. Not sure why you felt the need to repeat it lol.

I was making the point that I don't think ZOS added two female companions to cater to male players. Hopefully that's clear enough that you won't feel the need to repeat it.

As for ToT, it's okay. I'll play it enough to complete most achievements. I'm not a big card player myself, but I know plenty of women who are. Only brought it up because someone mentioned it in the thread as another reason they thought High Isle caters to male players.

Treselegant

So, in the end, I wouldn't say High Isle was marketed towards men, but rather towards a certain type of man. Or not only men, even, as there are also women who like excessive flirting and innuendo. Well, actually I'm not sure what they were thinking; the only thing I can say is that I'm obviously not part of the target demographic.

True enough, I have been a bit broad with my strokes but I agree with "a certain type of man". Obviously, I'm not every woman but it's the impression I've been getting. The flirting definitely hasn't been done well across new the npcs. At least in the past there were dialogue choices available where you could turn down such advances, for example with Darien. Its a lot more awkward and in your face than it used to be.

Lady_Titania

AzuraFan wrote: »

Lady_Titania wrote: »

Within the thread, there are opinions from a variety of players indicating why they too would like a male companion, and they've expressed their preferences, weather its for eye candy, possible romance, having a battle buddy, etc. We also had people, who like you, enjoy having female companions, and agree that there should still be a balance between males and females

Er, yeah, that's exactly what I said in my post. Not sure why you felt the need to repeat it lol.

I was making the point that I don't think ZOS added two female companions to cater to male players. Hopefully that's clear enough that you won't feel the need to repeat it.

As for ToT, it's okay. I'll play it enough to complete most achievements. I'm not a big card player myself, but I know plenty of women who are. Only brought it up because someone mentioned it in the thread as another reason they thought High Isle caters to male players.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Curious how most in the thread assume that male players want female companions, and female players want male companions. If it's about eye candy, that would only apply to straight folks. From what I've seen, there are plenty of LGB folks who play the game. Also, not everyone sees the companions as eye candy or potential romantic/flirty partners. Some don't see them as anything except an extra pair of hands in a fight, or perhaps as an adventuring buddy.

Apologies, I was commenting on the part that males wanted females and females wanted males. In this regard, I only meant to clarify that assuming the above stated was not entirely correct, as there are various opinions on the matter within the thread. Thank you for clearing that up.

AzuraFan

Lady_Titania wrote: »

Apologies, I was commenting on the part that males wanted females and females wanted males. In this regard, I only meant to clarify that assuming the above stated was not entirely correct, as there are various opinions on the matter within the thread. Thank you for clearing that up.

No worries. I thought I'd covered it by stating "most" but that might not be an accurate reflection of the thread. Just something that sets my teeth on edge (when it's assumed that all female players want some hunk that flirts with them), so I probably notice it more.

chessalavakia_ESO

Treselegant wrote: »

As a side note, I find ToT really fun so I too don't get the whole "females less inclined to like the card game" comment. That's going off topic though as this thread is about the lack of male companions.

Another poster mentioned that they felt some of the games features, ie. companions were being aimed at male players. I agreed and mentioned I had that feeling overall in regards High Isle. So it makes sense in regards to the rest of the conversation whether you agree or not.

I think it'd be interesting to see who the various demographics thought High Isle content was created to appeal towards.

I'm curious if it's a case where you've got a demographic where High Isle was a real hit or if it's a case where everybody thinks content was made for someone else either because the developers were trying to appeal to everyone and kind of didn't hit that well/were aiming at what they personally wanted.

Personally, as a straight male I had assumed the person that made Ember/Isobel either wasn't aiming at straight males or hit challenges in doing so.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Jusey1 wrote: »

If the Necromancer ends up being male and Argonian, I am going to be so happy.

They could hit several checks in one and make him a Shadowscale who is fine with Blade of Woeing. More companions who are fine with that is wanted by a lot of people.

I just love argonians, and want an interesting one as companion who could hopefully also give us some morsels of lore. Especially about Shadowscales....and is hopefully not too cliché necromancer.

Sevalaricgirl

We need a badass dude who doesn't care if we steal, pillage and plunder. Bastian has to go. I don't like Mirri much either. I really like Isobel though, the voice actress did a good job and Ember is with 2 of my thieving, pillaging and plundering Khajiit.

Deter1UK

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Alright next male companion needs to be old, scruffy beard, with an overflowing belly, and the drunk personality.

Oh, Falstaff!

Oh yes please!

Treselegant

I'm curious if it's a case where you've got a demographic where High Isle was a real hit or if it's a case where everybody thinks content was made for someone else either because the developers were trying to appeal to everyone and kind of didn't hit that well/were aiming at what they personally wanted.

Quite possible. I was personally frustrated by the companions being majority female because it seemed an odd choice and it made me consider that perhaps there is this belief that female companions sell better. Coupled with the increase in "bikini armours" in game it made me suspicious that this might behind the lack of new male companions.

Lugaldu

Treselegant wrote: »

I was personally frustrated by the companions being majority female because it seemed an odd choice and it made me consider that perhaps there is this belief that female companions sell better. Coupled with the increase in "bikini armours" in game it made me suspicious that this might behind the lack of new male companions.

Nice, I thought I am the only one who is bothered by this accumulation of "bikini armor". Its probably not very senseful to go into battle with a shirtless belly (apart from bare-chested gladiators, but it didn't matter if they survived anyway).

Syldras

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

Personally, as a straight male I had assumed the person that made Ember/Isobel either wasn't aiming at straight males or hit challenges in doing so.

Well, considering how "flirty" many other NPCs are, it's almost astonishing that the two companions didn't become like that, especially if they were aimed at straight male players. Isobel seems to be more interested in women anyway (I have the impression that she's in love with her friend Aurelia, and she also seems to be somehow fascinated by Lyris), and Ember - well, she's a destructive kitten. Are women supposed to like cats more than men do?

Then, there are a few quests that remind me of romance novels typically marketed towards women (think of the Stibbons quest for example). Plus all that stupid flirting from Jakarn. Interestingly, there were also flirty women, but I guess that neither the elderly Lady Arabelle nor that scarred captain at the shipyard would be the ideal love interest for most male players.

Generally, I think it's really hard to say which aspects might be considered to cater to female players, which ones to male players. In the end, it's mostly about stereotypes (as people are individuals and have individuals likes and dislikes, no matter their gender), also, there are many cultural differences. The only thing that's relatively clear to me is that flirty female NPCs would, generally speaking, cater to male players, and flirty male NPCs to female (as straight people are the majority).

So I, personally, wouldn't want to make it a gender thing. I have the impression that this chapter is marketed towards people (regardless of gender) who find that trope about the European Middle Ages being completely vulgar and shameless appealing. You know, the stereotypical tavern where people are brazenly sexual, everyone flirts shamelessly, the bard sings bawdy songs, people belch and fart, drunkenly vomit on the floor, spill their drinks and throw food at other people (although it is toned down in High Isle, but you probably know what stereotype I mean; and yes, it's a stereotype, it's not historically accurate).

Treselegant

Well, considering how "flirty" many other NPCs are, it's almost astonishing that the two companions didn't become like that, especially if they were aimed at straight male players.

A great deal of people seem to be running around with both Ember and Isobel in very skimpy outfits, skimpy armour etc. For those people, the personality and lore of those characters is less interesting than how they look. That they are female and can be dragged about in their knickers is as deep as it goes.

Deter1UK

Syldras wrote: »

, the stereotypical tavern where people are brazenly sexual, everyone flirts shamelessly, the bard sings bawdy songs, people belch and fart, drunkenly vomit on the floor, spill their drinks and throw food at other people it's not historically accurate).

That's a standard Friday night out for me and the wife me old love!

Mind you, the Scrumpy in our part of Somerset will do that to you!

Cadbury

Syldras wrote: »

I have the impression that this chapter is marketed towards people (regardless of gender) who find that trope about the European Middle Ages being completely vulgar and shameless appealing. You know, the stereotypical tavern where people are brazenly sexual, everyone flirts shamelessly, the bard sings bawdy songs, people belch and fart, drunkenly vomit on the floor, spill their drinks and throw food at other people (although it is toned down in High Isle, but you probably know what stereotype I mean; and yes, it's a stereotype, it's not historically accurate).

Wha...??

Ballermfrau

I would like to see a bloodthirsty Ork or a drunk Nord.

With the Nord you could implement the interaction to get drunk together which makes you deal 30% less damage but you gain more loot or XP for e.g. 2 hours. Similar to Isobel (but more rewarding due to the debuff) and many would be glad to not blow through overland content with there geared out chars.

Syldras

Treselegant wrote: »

A great deal of people seem to be running around with both Ember and Isobel in very skimpy outfits, skimpy armour etc. For those people, the personality and lore of those characters is less interesting than how they look. That they are female and can be dragged about in their knickers is as deep as it goes.

Sadly, you're probably right. But then every female npc could be seen as catering to straight men, and there will always be men who find her "romantically" appealing, whether you can dress her in ridiculously impractical skimpy armor or not.

Deter1UK wrote: »

That's a standard Friday night out for me and the wife me old love!

Why do you throw food? I'd rather eat it!

Cadbury wrote: »

Wha...??

You won't believe how many people think that what they see in "historical" movies or tv series was a realistic depiction of older times.

Deter1UK

Syldras wrote: »

Deter1UK wrote: »

That's a standard Friday night out for me and the wife me old love!

Why do you throw food? I'd rather eat it!

Because a stale baguette delivered to the back of the head by my wife’s right arm ensures the Bard sings in tune well he will when he wakes up!

You’ve never been on a proper night out have you.

Syldras

Deter1UK wrote: »

Because a stale baguette delivered to the back of the head by my wife’s right arm ensures the Bard sings in tune well he will when he wakes up!
You’ve never been on a proper night out have you.

If he wakes up, that is... I killed a bard in Gnisis once. Not with a baguette though. And it was an accident, I swear!

Karivaa

I would love to have a hot guy for a companion.

Faulgor

Haven't read through the thread, but I wanted to bring up that I was kinda disappointed with the Druids in High Isle.
Mainly that most Druids we interact with are female, which seemed like an odd choice to me given the Wyrd on the mainland. One of the NPCs even mentions that the Wyrd are gender-exclusive, while Druids welcome everybody - yet still virtually all Druids we encounter are female.

Which brings me to say that, if the Warden companion could be an old, male Druid, I would be so happy.
Would be great to travel with a wise, supportive grandpa figure. Not really interested in any more youngsters yearning for adventuring.

Am vanilla male btw, if that informs your discussion.

Syldras

Faulgor wrote: »

Haven't read through the thread, but I wanted to bring up that I was kinda disappointed with the Druids in High Isle.
Mainly that most Druids we interact with are female, which seemed like an odd choice to me given the Wyrd on the mainland. One of the NPCs even mentions that the Wyrd are gender-exclusive, while Druids welcome everybody - yet still virtually all Druids we encounter are female.

There are a few male druids in the Stonelore village (only a minority though, I agree). But, both druid elders there are male.

Kallykat

Syldras wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

A great deal of people seem to be running around with both Ember and Isobel in very skimpy outfits, skimpy armour etc. For those people, the personality and lore of those characters is less interesting than how they look. That they are female and can be dragged about in their knickers is as deep as it goes.

Sadly, you're probably right. But then every female npc could be seen as catering to straight men, and there will always be men who find her "romantically" appealing, whether you can dress her in ridiculously impractical skimpy armor or not.

While I agree that there are a lot of people who put female characters in skimpy armor for the physical appeal, that's not always the case. I'm a straight female with all female characters, and some of them wear skimpy armor. I don't imagine them as flirty, and I don't care to see people in real life in skimpy clothing, but it makes sense to me for some of my characters' stories. It's also the only way to show off body markings you really like, which is one of the reasons people requested skimpier outfits in the first place. (Yes, other reasons were as you mentioned.)