Male Companions

Lugaldu

Looking at this thread, I have a feeling that at the current pace of companion releases, it won't be 10 years until everyone is somehow happy. I'm also extremely unhappy that we now have three female companions and only one male, but even if we get two male companions next year (gosh, that's a long time!), what are they supposed to be like? An old wizard, a flirty muscleman, an Argonian shadowscale... I had originally thought that we would get more companions more quickly and hope that something will change here. On the other hand, the quality shouldn't suffer either, so the companions shouldn't have less text in favor of a faster release. Very difficult....

TPishek

I would actually love a companion from the House of Reveries, since none of the current people can wear head gear. Having one we never see the face of would be interesting and mix it up a bit.

barney2525

Its a companion.

Who cares what it looks like as long as it does its job ?

Cosmetics won't help you beat the boss.

Abelon

barney2525 wrote: »

Its a companion.

Who cares what it looks like as long as it does its job ?

Cosmetics won't help you beat the boss.

Most of this game is so easy, who cares how a companion does it's job as long as it looks nice?

Different people want different things from those companions. And either way it's clear that the devs try to balance companion combat and appearance/personality.

Syldras

When reading this thread, two things come to my mind:

1st, it's interesting how most people define appealing characters by their look only, but there's rarely a word about character traits (except for "flirty"). So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb that he can't count to 5 would be your dream companion? I doubt it. Of course looks may also count, but, I, personally, think that it's more interesting to ask who a new companion should be (a Dunmer scholar, a traditionally raised Redguard swordsman, a Baandari Khajiit, thoughtful, happy-go-lucky, honourful,...) than to debate about his hair length. People often said they were disappointed about how shallow and random most companion lines are, rarely something specific to their personality, so there seems to be interest in interesting personalities after all.

2nd, the huge amount of normativity here. Some people seem to forget that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. I'm sure there will be excuses now, "Of course I'm only speaking of my personal taste" - but for that, there are quite a lot of phrases like "Who would like...?!", "No one likes...!", "...is ugly!", "WE want...!" (which goes for this thread and all other companions thread lately, including the one about Isobel and Ember and the one about Bastian that has already been closed). It's funny, really; nature has made people individuals, not two human beings look alike, but mainstream beauty standards basically tell people that there's only one type of guy/girl being attractive - and everyone has to twist themself to fit into the stencil (and a lot of people try to, fail, feel flawed and get depressive about it, which wouldn't be necessary at all if people were just accepted the way they naturally are). I really wish everyone would realize that the world is diverse and that many different things can be beautiful or attractive to people. Or likeable, when it comes to character traits. I hope this diversity will also be reflected in future companion releases and chapters.

I know there's a "mainstream" opinion, and that that one will be catered to first, of course, that's fine with me, but I really hope that all others won't be forgotten. Personally speaking, I didn't find most fan favorites appealing (Naryu, Razum-dar, Darien), as I perceived them as awfully brash, encroaching, superficial and snooty. I know some people seem to like "flirting" and getting compliments the whole time, even seem to consider that a neccessary part of entertainment - I don't. That's one thing that really bothered me about High Isle actually, there's basically someone hitting on me, using innuendo or wanting to "spend the evening with me" at every corner. If you're not the type of person to find that "exciting" or "entertaining", it's nothing but a nuisance. And I'm probably not the only person, as I know there are people who are annoyed by getting hit on agressively in real life, and don't want to have that continued while gaming (especially if they play to forget about reality for a while).

I know there are people who like all that flirting, of course, and they can have a flirty companion if they wish, it's none of my business. I just really hope that not every single character will become like that now (the excessiveness of that kind of npcs in High Isle is really making me worried - is it just a chapter thing or ESO's general new direction?), and that ZOS will consider that there are people who really dislike that, even if they're maybe (I don't know) a minority here. And that goes for random npcs as well as companions.

TaSheen

@Syldras - I'd give you a million awesomes if I could!

Treselegant

Some people seem to forget that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder

Exactly. While everyone has their opinions on appearance it's ultimately a pointless exercise. My main concern throughout all of this has been that trying pleasing loud minorites could result in less diverse content. The new companions being female and being so super agreeable to the point of contradicting their own characterisation at times suggest this is already happening to some extent.

It is a concern that we're all going to be locked into a dance where the developers release new companions and we get a flurry of very subjective opinions about appearance and appeal until eventually we have companions released that are barely characters at all that are bland and boring as to not offend anyones sensibilities.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

When reading this thread, two things come to my mind:

1st, it's interesting how most people define appealing characters by their look only, but there's rarely a word about character traits (except for "flirty"). So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb he that can't count to 5 would be your dream companion? I doubt it. Of course looks may also count, but, I, personally, think that it's more interesting to ask who a new companion should be (a Dunmer scholar, a traditionally raised Redguard swordsman, a Baandari Khajiit, thoughful, happy-go-lucky, honourful,...) than to debate about his hair length. People often said they were disappointed about how shallow and random most companion lines are, rarely something specific to their personality, so there seems to be interest in interesting personalities after all.

2nd, the huge amount of normativity here. Some people seem to forget that beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. I'm sure there will be excuses now, "Of course I'm only speaking of my personal taste" - but for that, there are quite a lot of phrases like "Who would like...?!", "No one likes...!", "...is ugly!", "WE want...!" (which goes for this thread and all other companions thread lately, including the only about Isobel and Ember and the one about Bastian that has already been closed). It's funny, really; nature has made people individuals, not two human beings look alike, but mainstream beauty standards basically tell people that there's only one type of guy/girl being attractive - and everyone has to twist themself to fit into the stencil (and a lot of people try to, fail, feel flawed and get depressive about it, which wouldn't be necessary at all if people were just accepted the way they naturally are). I really wish everyone would realize that the world is diverse and that many different things can be beautiful or attractive to people. Or likeable, when it comes to character traits. I hope this diversity will also be reflected in future companion releases and chapters.

I know there's a "mainstream" opinion, and that that one will be catered to first, of course, that's fine with me, but I really hope that all others won't be forgotten. Personally speaking, I didn't find most fan favorites appealing (Naryu, Razum-dar, Darien), as I perceived them as awfully brash, encroaching, superficial and snooty. I know some people seem to like "flirting" and getting compliments the whole time, even seem to consider that a neccessary part of entertainment - I don't. That's one thing that really bothered me about High Isle actually, there's basically someone hitting on me, using innuendo or wanting to "spend the evening with me" at every corner. If you're not the type of person to find that "exciting" or "entertaining", it's nothing but a nuisance. And I'm probably not the only person, as I know there are people who are annoyed by getting hit on agressively in real life, and don't want to have that continued while gaming (especially if they play to forget about reality for a while).

I know there are people who like all that flirting, of course, and they can have a flirty companion if they wish, it's none of my business. I just really hope that not every single character will become like that now (the excessiveness of that kind of npcs in High Isle is really making me worried - is it just a chapter thing or ESO's general new direction?), and that ZOS will consider that there are people you really dislike that, even if they're maybe (I don't know) a minority here. And that goes for random npcs as well as companions.

Couldn't agree more. I've also been quite uncomfortable with the appearance focused comments the companions have recieved. Some aimed towards Isobel especially so. Every companion has so far gotten some complaint about their appearance because it doesn't fit some lookism ideal.

ADarklore

As for appearance... I just want more MALE Companions... period. I think Bastian is attractive, but most of that has to do with his personality and voice... and the red hair is awesome too.

Mirri... I am very OK with Mirri for the most part. Although the whole, "don't pick butterflies" gets old... but I like that I can collect Thieves Troves and she doesn't get mad. What I don't like is her abhorrence to the Dark Brotherhood, so even entering their Sanctuary nets a negative rapport.

Isobel... my ONLY complaint about her is, she had a very pleasant, happy facial appearance during her quest-line, but then as OUR Companion, she has a 'resting Isobel face', which totally does not match her personality.

Ember... she is TOO child-like, not only in her whining voice but her personality. If it wasn't for the fact that she is OK with nefarious game-play, I probably wouldn't even bother leveling her.

So I wouldn't say they have made Companions to appease one group or another... they are quite diverse in many respects. I think many people criticize attractiveness because remember, they said at one point they may be adding a romance option... which from what I've seen... I do NOT see that ever happening. They'd have to go back and record new dialogue, quests, etc... and considering we are already four Companions in... I just don't see them putting in the effort to add it, especially as divisive as 'appearance' has already become.

Remember, this is an RPG, and many people do play it exactly that way... they think of each Companion as an IRL person, which is how ZOS marketed them actually... so certain things would be important to them in that regard. Now, most people don't pick their 'friends' based on appearance... but if you're looking at them as more of a 'relationship' RPG aspect, then sure, appearance would be important to many people for that reason.

Syldras

TaSheen wrote: »

@Syldras - I'd give you a million awesomes if I could!

Thank you!

Treselegant wrote: »

Exactly. While everyone has their opinions on appearance it's ultimately a pointless exercise. My main concern throughout all of this has been that trying pleasing loud minorites could result in less diverse content.

Yes. I'm afraid that then all male companions will basically resemble the cover pictures of those trashy "historical romance" pulp novels you can buy at the station. Bland bare-chested muscle guys with flowing hair - all looking the same.

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I've also been quite uncomfortable with the appearance focused comments the companions have recieved. Some aimed towards Isobel especially so. Every companion has so far gotten some complaint about their appearance because it doesn't fit some lookism ideal.

Ah, yes, I remember that thread about Isobel's walk. And then there was one solely about the question whether Bastian was attractive or not. And I can also remember a comment somewhere where someone wrote she hoped to get a "cute male companion", just to get lectured that "no one likes cute guys" and that it was "even worse than pretty guys". Some people really seem to think they're the hub of the world.

Syldras

ADarklore wrote: »

I think many people criticize attractiveness because remember, they said at one point they may be adding a romance option... (...) Remember, this is an RPG, and many people do play it exactly that way... they think of each Companion as an IRL person, which is how ZOS marketed them actually... so certain things would be important to them in that regard. Now, most people don't pick their 'friends' based on appearance... but if you're looking at them as more of a 'relationship' RPG aspect, then sure, appearance would be important to many people for that reason.

I understand that the way a character looks is important in that regard for many people. But how does it help to "critize" existing companions for the way they are designed to look? You even wrote that they are designed to be diverse and to be like real life persons, each having their own individuality in terms of appearance, character traits, interests, likes and dislikes. If people complain about, for example, the way Isobel walks, what are they expecting? That ZOS changes her accordingly? Do they do the same in real life and tell a potential partner: "Hey, you look nice, but your walk isn't feminine enough, I would find you attractive if it was different - please change it for me!"?

For me, it's totally clear: Companions are, like real persons, (designed to be) individuals. They are the way they are. Either I like it, or I don't - and if I don't, well, bad luck, but I'm not forced to use them, and maybe I've got more luck with the next ones. That said, it's totally fine to make suggestions what companions you would like to see in the next chapter. It's possible without complaining about the existing ones. I, for example, don't care about Bastian that much, but I see how other people can find him appealing. Why would I whine about him? I'm happy for the people who like him and just hope that there will be one that's more appealing to my personal taste the next time. Or rather many different, diverse companions, so that there's an agreeable companion for everyone sooner or later.

Treselegant

they said at one point they may be adding a romance option... which from what I've seen... I do NOT see that ever happening

I am hoping you are wrong on this. I bought Blackwood because I was interested in the idea of companions and the possibility of more content being added for them. I've always played ESO for the story more than the combat but the last two expansion stories didn't really engage me so all I've had for my money is the companion system.

SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

...it's interesting how most people define appealing characters by their look only, but there's rarely a word about character traits (except for "flirty"). So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb that he can't count to 5 would be your dream companion?

Being good looking and flirty does not equal being an unintelligent muscle bound woman hater.

Verandis Ravenwatch has a very desirable appearance to me but I also see him as intelligent and noble.

Captain Rian Liore is very handsome in my opinion, but also intelligent, no nonsense and a strong leader.

I find Jakarn cute and flirty and playful and he knows how to get the job done. He is also a lot of fun to go on missions with.

Bastian on the other hand, I find homely with a goofy look on his face, and too big a goody two shoes to be any fun.

ellmarie

I just want a male companion because I prefer their company. I'm not as concerned about looks. I could have any race, just want male. A J'zargo like character would be nice! I have Bastion because he's a good aggro for me. I'm not crazy for his or Mirri's commentary though. I'm on console, so I haven't played with the new ones yet. I am excited to have a companion that will look the other way when opening thieves' troves, rather than having to dismiss them. Too bad we can't create our own! Hopefully someday.

Cadbury

Syldras wrote: »

Yes. I'm afraid that then all male companions will basically resemble the cover pictures of those trashy "historical romance" pulp novels you can buy at the station. Bland bare-chested muscle guys with flowing hair - all looking the same.

Syldras

SilverBride wrote: »

Being good looking and flirty does not equal being an unintelligent muscle bound woman hater.

I never wrote that. I said that it's weird to focus on looks only, while not writing a single line about character traits. As character is as important (if not even more). What's the use of a handsome guy if he's an idiot?

SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Being good looking and flirty does not equal being an unintelligent muscle bound woman hater.

I never wrote that. I said that it's weird to focus on looks only, while not writing a single line about character traits. As character is as important (if not even more). What's the use of a handsome guy if he's an idiot?

Syldras wrote: »

So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb that he can't count to 5 would be your dream companion?

That statement is making the assumption that unless it is stated otherwise all good looking men are dumb muscle bound woman haters and that is what women who want a good looking companion are looking for.

Syldras

@SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

it's interesting how most people define appealing characters by their look only, but there's rarely a word about character traits (except for "flirty"). So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb that he can't count to 5 would be your dream companion? I doubt it. Of course looks may also count, but, I, personally, think that it's more interesting to ask who a new companion should be (a Dunmer scholar, a traditionally raised Redguard swordsman, a Baandari Khajiit, thoughtful, happy-go-lucky, honourful,...) than to debate about his hair length

You have to take a look at context, you know?

SilverBride

Cadbury wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Yes. I'm afraid that then all male companions will basically resemble the cover pictures of those trashy "historical romance" pulp novels you can buy at the station. Bland bare-chested muscle guys with flowing hair - all looking the same.

I met him once. He looked incredible in person.

Syldras

SilverBride wrote: »

That statement is making the assumption that unless it is stated otherwise all good looking men are dumb muscle bound woman haters and that is what women who want a good looking companion are looking for.

No, it's making the statement that it's completely irrelevant if someone is considered handsome if he has a bad character. So it's strange that most people here don't mention what character they would like their ideal companion to have and only focus on looks.

Had I meant that all muscular guys were woman haters (which is nonsense as looks and characters don't correlate), I would have written it that way.

SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

@SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

it's interesting how most people define appealing characters by their look only, but there's rarely a word about character traits (except for "flirty"). So a flirty muscle hunk who is a misogynist and so dumb that he can't count to 5 would be your dream companion? I doubt it. Of course looks may also count, but, I, personally, think that it's more interesting to ask who a new companion should be (a Dunmer scholar, a traditionally raised Redguard swordsman, a Baandari Khajiit, thoughtful, happy-go-lucky, honourful,...) than to debate about his hair length

You have to take a look at context, you know?

I read the context and stand by my opinion.

But to clarify, there is nothing wrong with wanting a companion we find physically attractive. That is the first consideration for me, to start with a pleasing character model, then add desirable traits. The fact that we didn't mention the traits first does not lessen their importance in creating the total package.

Syldras

SilverBride wrote: »

I read the context and stand by my opinion.

Of course you can still stand by your opinion, while I have already clarified several times that this seems to be a misunderstanding; that I used a common example for handsomeness to write that, in my opinion, being good-looking is useless if the character is awful; and that character and looks don't correlate. Do as you wish. Other people seem to have understood my comment the way I intended (if I look at the many positive reactions I got), that's sufficient for me.

SilverBride

Syldras wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I read the context and stand by my opinion.

Of course you can still stand by your opinion, while I have already clarified several times that this seems to be a misunderstanding; that I used a common example for handsomeness to write that, in my opinion, being good-looking is useless if the character is awful; and that character and looks don't correlate. Do as you wish. Other people seem to have understood my comment the way I intended (if I look at the many positive reactions I got), that's sufficient for me.

Thank you for clarifying your intentions. Let's just agree that we were looking at this from different angles and move forward from here.

Lucidilusions

Let's all be real here, the true question is when are we going to get a Dog companion! I know what some of you are thinking, but Lucid if they give us a Dog companion then they have to give us a cat companion to keep it balanced... But we already have a cat companion, Ember!

So let's put our difference behind us and all come together to get the Dog Companion created! Oh Crap, but what about dog breed.... uhhhhhh I might have just started a whole new issues. Sorry!

SydneyGrey

There just needs to be MORE companions to choose from. Two a year isn't enough.

Also, we need an Orc companion. Either male or female, I don't care.

MrGhosty

I'm fine with them doing whatever they want for each year's chapter but to give us the ability to buy a "companion token" that lets us setup our alts as NPC companions coupled with the ability to also convert them into houseguests in the same way we can with the current companions. They could easily repurpose some standard combat barks to give our characters a voice but we wouldn't need a lot of voice lines.

ADarklore

Treselegant wrote: »

they said at one point they may be adding a romance option... which from what I've seen... I do NOT see that ever happening

I am hoping you are wrong on this. I bought Blackwood because I was interested in the idea of companions and the possibility of more content being added for them. I've always played ESO for the story more than the combat but the last two expansion stories didn't really engage me so all I've had for my money is the companion system.

Yeah, I'm hoping I'm wrong too... but since prior to Blackwood launch, they have never once brought up the romance point again, and even when they brought it up before Blackwood, it was like, "we may consider adding a romance option in the future", there was nothing definite. As long as all the voice actors are constantly available, this shouldn't be a problem... but could be a problem the longer they wait without implementing it.

Treselegant

Yeah, I'm hoping I'm wrong too... but since prior to Blackwood launch, they have never once brought up the romance point again

It's very frustrating. I've seen a good amount of people asking over and over when this is going to be happening and there is no news to share. Bethesda games where there is optional romance with companions tend to have a lot of long term engagement from fans so it's a good idea to boost retention from that kind of crowd. The longer it goes without news the more I feel I have been 'sold a pup' as the saying goes.

Sailor_Palutena

Kusto wrote: »

Zos caters to majority. And the majority of playerbase is male. Males generally prefer female companions. Alot even female characters. Look around the zones. I would say most of the characters are female.

I see a lot of players with male characters walking around with Bastian Hallix.

FlopsyPrince

Lugaldu wrote: »

Looking at this thread, I have a feeling that at the current pace of companion releases, it won't be 10 years until everyone is somehow happy. I'm also extremely unhappy that we now have three female companions and only one male, but even if we get two male companions next year (gosh, that's a long time!), what are they supposed to be like? An old wizard, a flirty muscleman, an Argonian shadowscale... I had originally thought that we would get more companions more quickly and hope that something will change here. On the other hand, the quality shouldn't suffer either, so the companions shouldn't have less text in favor of a faster release. Very difficult....

No way to make everyone happy with companions, though making a male and female version of the same companion MIGHT be a better approach.

I certainly do not want a "flirty" male companion, though I am sure others do. I would rather run with a female companion myself, as I noted, but I am sure others would not. I would hope they did some thought about this when creating new companions, but I really hope I don't get the "perfect otherwise" flirty male companion. That would be like the card game that is being forced on me.

That is why a male and female version of each, which would require a bit more design of course, would be a far better approach.