So Where Are The mDK Nerfs?

jecks33

pvpers won again 👍

Mr_Stach

AuraNebula

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

Good. Because they were making Cyrodiil miserable. They kept it like this for so long because of PvE, so I don't feel sorry that all you guys have to do is switch up roster rolls.

PvE is more fun when there is more diversity too.

Dracane

AuraNebula wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

Good. Because they were making Cyrodiil miserable. They kept it like this for so long because of PvE so I don't feel sorry that all you guys have to do is switch up roster rolls.

PvE is more fun when there is more diversity too.

I doubt this will suffice to kick Dragonknight off its dps throne. Will probably be the same classes as always.

MashmalloMan

Dracane wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

Good. Because they were making Cyrodiil miserable. They kept it like this for so long because of PvE so I don't feel sorry that all you guys have to do is switch up roster rolls.

PvE is more fun when there is more diversity too.

I doubt this will suffice to kick Dragonknight off its dps throne. Will probably be the same classes as always.

The issue will never be resolved as long as ZOS doesn't provide every class and the roles within that class unique opportunities to improve their group.

They've made tiny attempts like Mag DK's giving burning damage taken, Stam DK's giving damage done taken, Stam Sorcs giving 1k pen..

But everything else is pretty easy and those unique buffs/debuffs aren't subject to stam or mag anymore. A tank shouldn't be able to provide what a DPS can provide or what a healer can provide. That is how you make unique build and team pve compositions, instead of 1 DK, 1 Sorc, 1 NB, 1 Templar, 1 Warden, a few Necros, then 4-6 of the strongest DPS class from any given meta.

It's pointless to care about until ZOS tackles the root of the issue.

Succuby

Why mag DK have to be nerfed ? I did not see Sorcs and NB nerfs yet.

Invis work - streak work ? So no nerf for mDK.

olsborg

Succuby wrote: »

Why mag DK have to be nerfed ? I did not see Sorcs and NB nerfs yet.

Invis work - streak work ? So no nerf for mDK.

Well in your world i would bet corrosive and molten whip probably deserved a buff.

Dracane

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

Good. Because they were making Cyrodiil miserable. They kept it like this for so long because of PvE so I don't feel sorry that all you guys have to do is switch up roster rolls.

PvE is more fun when there is more diversity too.

I doubt this will suffice to kick Dragonknight off its dps throne. Will probably be the same classes as always.

The issue will never be resolved as long as ZOS doesn't provide every class and the roles within that class unique opportunities to improve their group.

They've made tiny attempts like Mag DK's giving burning damage taken, Stam DK's giving damage done taken, Stam Sorcs giving 1k pen..

But everything else is pretty easy and those unique buffs/debuffs aren't subject to stam or mag anymore. A tank shouldn't be able to provide what a DPS can provide or what a healer can provide. That is how you make unique build and team pve compositions, instead of 1 DK, 1 Sorc, 1 NB, 1 Templar, 1 Warden, a few Necros, then 4-6 of the strongest DPS class from any given meta.

It's pointless to care about until ZOS tackles the root of the issue.

I agree. I just think it can't even be fixed. One class will always have more dps than others. Right now the difference are massive, but even if they were small, people like to min max. The only thing they could do, is to include trial mechanics that only classes belonging to a certain class can perform. Like a mechanic where a player needs to spam cloak to remain continuously undetected and disable a mechanic or another needs to streak over gaps to do it.

Though that will never happen and would be stupid probably.

BlossomDead

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

Mr_Stach

Yes.

WHERE ARE THE TEMPLAR NERFS?

GOD DAYUM JABS AND JAVELINS

I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL PINCUSHION

I hope that helps

MashmalloMan

BlossomDead wrote: »

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

I'd argue they were less potent than DK, runner up for most op for sure, but not as strong, the Bubble nerf is a pretty large blow to their staying power.

Maybe with the DK changes they'll take DKs space, but they've always had easy telegraphs and way less sustain.

Step through or away from their jab spam, prepare for their 6s burst window. DK had nowhere near the same counterplay.

Bl4ckR3alm93

Grooveliker wrote: »

the patch notes are a disaster! Dragonknight is way too strong and they just don't see it because they don't play pvp themselves! The new Mhystic item (ring) is so OP that we will get a werewolf again in addition to the dragon knight problem in the next patch! The developers don't see that either because they don't know their own game! Eso stay the biggest bunch... in PvP!

What ZoS needs to do is separately balance PVE and PVP. ASAP!

TPishek

Dracane wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

Good. Because they were making Cyrodiil miserable. They kept it like this for so long because of PvE so I don't feel sorry that all you guys have to do is switch up roster rolls.

PvE is more fun when there is more diversity too.

I doubt this will suffice to kick Dragonknight off its dps throne. Will probably be the same classes as always.

^
All this does is make the game more unpleasant to play, I don't understand why ZOS doesn't understand that. Just tweak numbers down a bit if you want to balance things, don't slash sustain and make gameplay painful.

BlossomDead

MashmalloMan wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

I'd argue they were less potent than DK, runner up for most op for sure, but not as strong, the Bubble nerf is a pretty large blow to their staying power.

Maybe with the DK changes they'll take DKs space, but they've always had easy telegraphs and way less sustain.

Step through or away from their jab spam, prepare for their 6s burst window. DK had nowhere near the same counterplay.

Funnily enough I die far less to DKs than to templars, because it's just literally impossible to get them off your back while they jab you to death. Throw in a heal or two for that extra speed and there's no way for you to go.

Decimus

BlossomDead wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

I'd argue they were less potent than DK, runner up for most op for sure, but not as strong, the Bubble nerf is a pretty large blow to their staying power.

Maybe with the DK changes they'll take DKs space, but they've always had easy telegraphs and way less sustain.

Step through or away from their jab spam, prepare for their 6s burst window. DK had nowhere near the same counterplay.

Funnily enough I die far less to DKs than to templars, because it's just literally impossible to get them off your back while they jab you to death. Throw in a heal or two for that extra speed and there's no way for you to go.

While not the topic of this thread, a very simple counter to templar is keeping up your snare/root immunity at all times & CC break->sprint+heal->sprint+heal/LOS - Toppling Charge alone is not going to kill you and a templar who can't stack up their Purifying Light is not a danger.

The people I see dying to templars are typically ones that stand in the jabs and then have a fully stacked Purifying Light go off on them.

The main issue on Live is templars being way too tanky sometimes, I'm hoping the already announced nerf to Living Dark (down from up to 8k heal/0,5s tooltip to 2k/0,5s) is going to fix that.

taugrim

BlossomDead wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

I'd argue they were less potent than DK, runner up for most op for sure, but not as strong, the Bubble nerf is a pretty large blow to their staying power.

Maybe with the DK changes they'll take DKs space, but they've always had easy telegraphs and way less sustain.

Step through or away from their jab spam, prepare for their 6s burst window. DK had nowhere near the same counterplay.

Funnily enough I die far less to DKs than to templars, because it's just literally impossible to get them off your back while they jab you to death. Throw in a heal or two for that extra speed and there's no way for you to go.

If you wear 5-pc medium, Elude offsets the snare from jabs spam.

taugrim

Succuby wrote: »

Why mag DK have to be nerfed ? I did not see Sorcs and NB nerfs yet.

Invis work - streak work ? So no nerf for mDK.

Why would Sorc and NB need to be nerfed?

What in your opinion makes them imbalanced — I mean explained in more than 4 words. I'm legit curious.

Aldoss

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

Grooveliker wrote: »

the patch notes are a disaster! Dragonknight is way too strong and they just don't see it because they don't play pvp themselves! The new Mhystic item (ring) is so OP that we will get a werewolf again in addition to the dragon knight problem in the next patch! The developers don't see that either because they don't know their own game! Eso stay the biggest bunch... in PvP!

What ZoS needs to do is separately balance PVE and PVP. ASAP!

They do this. Why do you think they don't do this?

Go zone into cyrodiil and look at your buff sheet. The truth has been in front of you all along.

PvP_Exploiter

Once every 3s may have been a slight over-nerf.

Although anyone saying its over a 100% nerf can't do maths and should not be listened to.

axi

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

In typical ZOS fashion, the change made to help DK sustain has been removed in such a way that their sustain is now worse than before it got fixed initially.

Good because if the DK class is going to have as much Tankiness and Damage as it does then it should only beable to sustain that power for a short time.

Thing is with such big nerf to combustion DK class is not going to have as much tankiness and damage. ZoS as always made horrible decision and instead of changing completly overbuffed charged trait they destroyed unique class passive that was benefiting from status effects.

prof_doom

Aldoss wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

Grooveliker wrote: »

the patch notes are a disaster! Dragonknight is way too strong and they just don't see it because they don't play pvp themselves! The new Mhystic item (ring) is so OP that we will get a werewolf again in addition to the dragon knight problem in the next patch! The developers don't see that either because they don't know their own game! Eso stay the biggest bunch... in PvP!

What ZoS needs to do is separately balance PVE and PVP. ASAP!

They do this. Why do you think they don't do this?

Go zone into cyrodiil and look at your buff sheet. The truth has been in front of you all along.

That's not what this discussion is about and you know it. This is about active and passive skills. They currently function 100% the same in PVP and PVE.

axi

jecks33 wrote: »

pvpers won again 👍

To be honest the issue was also present in PvE but it wasn't combustion it was charged trait.

axi

taugrim wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

I think we need a 'where are the templar nerfs' thread as well.

I'd argue they were less potent than DK, runner up for most op for sure, but not as strong, the Bubble nerf is a pretty large blow to their staying power.

Maybe with the DK changes they'll take DKs space, but they've always had easy telegraphs and way less sustain.

Step through or away from their jab spam, prepare for their 6s burst window. DK had nowhere near the same counterplay.

Funnily enough I die far less to DKs than to templars, because it's just literally impossible to get them off your back while they jab you to death. Throw in a heal or two for that extra speed and there's no way for you to go.

If you wear 5-pc medium, Elude offsets the snare from jabs spam.

That is a big "if".

Mr_Stach

Battle Spirit does not equal separate balance between PvE & PvP. It affects everyone equally meaning everything is still exactly the same. Skills in PvP need different tuning than in PvE. Like the Combustion Nerf. If that was like that only in PvP (probably still too much of a nerf tbh), there would be less of a stink about it maybe.

axi

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Battle Spirit does not equal separate balance between PvE & PvP. It affects everyone equally meaning everything is still exactly the same. Skills in PvP need different tuning than in PvE. Like the Combustion Nerf. If that was like that only in PvP (probably still too much of a nerf tbh), there would be less of a stink about it maybe.

"Less of a stink" still doesnt mean thing is balanced. Combustion atm is overperforming in both PvE and PvP but the fault for that is mainly on the side of overbuffed charged trait. Instead of tuning down or tweaking that trait they decided to overnerf unique DK passive. Separate balance for PvE and PvP won't change much if combat dev team will continue to make questionable balance decisions.

Mr_Stach

I mean we all know how Zos Works, Every over-buff means there's an even larger over-nerf on the backswing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

taugrim wrote: »

Succuby wrote: »

Why mag DK have to be nerfed ? I did not see Sorcs and NB nerfs yet.

Invis work - streak work ? So no nerf for mDK.

Why would Sorc and NB need to be nerfed?

What in your opinion makes them imbalanced — I mean explained in more than 4 words. I'm legit curious.

@taugrim
I actually just dropped in to see if this had turned into a Nerf Sorc thread yet, and it did not disappoint. I know you are curious, but you wont get answers that make any sense, I promise. Likely something about how streak and cloak can one shot you. Its nonsense.

DK is pretty darn OP at the moment, hard to deny it. I hate calling for nerfs to probably my favorite class, but its easy mode in both PVP and PVE right now.

Dracane

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Once every 3s may have been a slight over-nerf.

Although anyone saying its over a 100% nerf can't do maths and should not be listened to.

I also found this funny, because it's an about 80% nerf, not 600%. It's 6 times less, true, but still 20% of what it was. 80% doesn't sound as dramatic as 600%, does it? DK Community, love them.

taugrim

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Succuby wrote: »

Why mag DK have to be nerfed ? I did not see Sorcs and NB nerfs yet.

Invis work - streak work ? So no nerf for mDK.

Why would Sorc and NB need to be nerfed?

What in your opinion makes them imbalanced — I mean explained in more than 4 words. I'm legit curious.

@taugrim
I actually just dropped in to see if this had turned into a Nerf Sorc thread yet, and it did not disappoint. I know you are curious, but you wont get answers that make any sense, I promise. Likely something about how streak and cloak can one shot you. Its nonsense.

DK is pretty darn OP at the moment, hard to deny it. I hate calling for nerfs to probably my favorite class, but its easy mode in both PVP and PVE right now.

Yea I asked because I don't see Sorcs or NB as needing nerfs based on live.

Nerfs to Streak and Cloak are simply not merited.

Streak is the Sorc's class-defining ability. It's not broken. It's just an excellent tool.

Cloak is definitely not broken. There are plenty of counters to stealth that any build can slot. Anyone who thinks it's broken should play a NB at CP160. It is by far the highest-finesse class, which is why the majority of people are underwhelming with it and the most-skilled can do amazing things with it.

Yes, NBs can gank. But those gank builds over struggle mightily in any kind of protracted brawling or larger fights.

Mr_Stach

I mean if we're being honest, I'm less afraid of a NB hopping around a corner and stabbing me vs a DK Leaping down from Orbit and bursting me down in a Nano Second.... Just Sayin