High Isle's frustrating Warden changes are a disappointing step back.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

But that does bring up an interesting point. What are Zos' stance on Fun vs Fantasy?

I feel like Templars and Dragonknights get to "have their cake and eat it too" , they get their class fantasy and be very effective in their Fantasy across all content.

Definitely feels like this in pvp. In pve it's thankfully not entirely like that as magplar is worse than magden. But magdk is definitely overtuned compared to most other classes.

ESO_Nightingale

Alright. This is probably our last chance. No-one should expect anything. But there's always a chance however small it may be.

Aldoss

Fighting some dks yesterday made me question the sheer imbalance between fire and ice.

Why do DKs get 3 insanely good spammables?
- whip
- flames of oblivion
- noxious

And two of them boost the primary spammable to deal 100% more damage. What other spammable in the game allows you to deal 20k+ dmg with such a low resource cost every 4 seconds?

The most infuriating strategy I've been exposed to thus far is the dk initiating combat with FoO, then embers, followed by a combo of talons, which forces you to roll dodge, yet you get hit by noxious because it can't be dodged, then they shattering rocks you, they get a burst heal for doing so AND get a free 10k+ hit on you after battle spirit.

If you don't die, they just start it again 4 seconds later.

It's a lot of pressure to defend against which leaves me here wondering what magdens have that even comes close to this.

Arctic is a lost cause. I have no faith that the nerf will be reversed. Arctic is a dead skill for magdens.

Winters Revenge costs too much, does too little damage, and is too small to be of much use. Winters should be given the ash cloud treatment. Let us move it and keep the cost ticking away. Have it deal a burst of frost dmg periodically, or for better identity vs the dk ah cloud, make it do considerably more dmg against chilled targets.

Birds.... Lol.

Deep fissure hits like a wet noodle even as a fully spec'd dps magden. Sometimes it will crit a weak target for 6k. An average hit is 3k.

The best pressure I've found as a magden this patch is in heavy dot proc sets, one of which comes from flame damage proccing burning, which just feels wrong as a magden.

Wardens deserve to be brought up to standard with these other classes. How long will we have to wait and fight this uphill losing battle?

Mr_Stach

Aldoss wrote: »

Fighting some dks yesterday made me question the sheer imbalance between fire and ice.

Why do DKs get 3 insanely good spammables?
- whip
- flames of oblivion
- noxious

And two of them boost the primary spammable to deal 100% more damage. What other spammable in the game allows you to deal 20k+ dmg with such a low resource cost every 4 seconds?

The most infuriating strategy I've been exposed to thus far is the dk initiating combat with FoO, then embers, followed by a combo of talons, which forces you to roll dodge, yet you get hit by noxious because it can't be dodged, then they shattering rocks you, they get a burst heal for doing so AND get a free 10k+ hit on you after battle spirit.

If you don't die, they just start it again 4 seconds later.

It's a lot of pressure to defend against which leaves me here wondering what magdens have that even comes close to this.

Arctic is a lost cause. I have no faith that the nerf will be reversed. Arctic is a dead skill for magdens.

Winters Revenge costs too much, does too little damage, and is too small to be of much use. Winters should be given the ash cloud treatment. Let us move it and keep the cost ticking away. Have it deal a burst of frost dmg periodically, or for better identity vs the dk ah cloud, make it do considerably more dmg against chilled targets.

Birds.... Lol.

Deep fissure hits like a wet noodle even as a fully spec'd dps magden. Sometimes it will crit a weak target for 6k. An average hit is 3k.

The best pressure I've found as a magden this patch is in heavy dot proc sets, one of which comes from flame damage proccing burning, which just feels wrong as a magden.

Wardens deserve to be brought up to standard with these other classes. How long will we have to wait and fight this uphill losing battle?

It seems like Zos has been focusing pretty hard on giving Stamden more of an Identity, which is great, don't get me wrong, but Magden has had an Identity Crisis for 5 Years. We need something.

Skjaldbjorn

Mr_Stach wrote: »

It seems like Zos has been focusing pretty hard on giving Stamden more of an Identity, which is great, don't get me wrong, but Magden has had an Identity Crisis for 5 Years. We need something.

This goes back to what I said before - Mag/Stam identification is dead. It's just a resource pool now. You're a Warden, just like me, just like every other Warden. DKs aren't different. They are effectively using all the same skills.

What we had before was "build" identity and precious little if any class identity for most. Now we are seeing a hard left turn away from build identity, with a focus on over-arching class identity. "Frost mage" is an aspect of Warden just like "Beastmaster" is, but neither is the focus.

The issue in this case isn't really design as much as it is player perception. If we stop using Mag/Stam terms, things make a hell of a lot more sense.

ESO_Nightingale

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright. This is probably our last chance. No-one should expect anything. But there's always a chance however small it may be.

Wow i love how they specifically ignored all of the abundant warden feedback this patch while adressing all other concerns. Enjoy arctic blast's destruction going live everyone.

Wolfpaw

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright. This is probably our last chance. No-one should expect anything. But there's always a chance however small it may be.

Wow i love how they specifically ignored all of the abundant warden feedback this patch while adressing all other concerns. Enjoy arctic blast's destruction going live everyone.

Card game and companions seems most of their time went into this latest pts notes. Glad I didn't preorder.

ESO_Nightingale

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright. This is probably our last chance. No-one should expect anything. But there's always a chance however small it may be.

Wow i love how they specifically ignored all of the abundant warden feedback this patch while adressing all other concerns. Enjoy arctic blast's destruction going live everyone.

Card game and companions seems most of their time went into this latest pts notes. Glad I didn't preorder.

I think the chapter content is fine. But the update that launches with it is yikes.

Mr_Stach

Arctic Going live will be a Dead skill. I still don't use Slab and adding a bad stun on it won't change it, unless they make it an "All Damage" instead of Ranged Damage.

Honestly, Stamden is looking Hella Good. Maybe that'll be my Main till Zos pulls their head out of the Sand.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Arctic Going live will be a Dead skill. I still don't use Slab and adding a bad stun on it won't change it, unless they make it an "All Damage" instead of Ranged Damage.

Honestly, Stamden is looking Hella Good. Maybe that'll be my Main till Zos pulls their head out of the Sand.

I bet they'll be wondering to themselves why wardens are annoyed next patch meanwhile they egregiously did nothing to listen to our feedback.

ESO_Nightingale

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Alright. This is probably our last chance. No-one should expect anything. But there's always a chance however small it may be.

Wow i love how they specifically ignored all of the abundant warden feedback this patch while adressing all other concerns. Enjoy arctic blast's destruction going live everyone.

Card game and companions seems most of their time went into this latest pts notes. Glad I didn't preorder.

i'm probably just going to play the card game next patch. pvp is still a ginormous joke for magicka warden solo players and it just got even worse because of zenimax's thoughtless changes.

Greystag

The Warden-focused PTS threads are getting really high view counts and activity and yet we keep getting radio silence.

Frustrating is really the best way to describe what it's been like for us recently.

Mr_Stach

Yeah we've been working pretty hard to remain relevant this PTS cycle, which makes the silence even worse. Maybe Zos has something planned for next week but I seriously doubt it.

Greystag

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Yeah we've been working pretty hard to remain relevant this PTS cycle, which makes the silence even worse. Maybe Zos has something planned for next week but I seriously doubt it.

That's what we've been hoping these past weeks, but ZoS keeps failing to deliver changes or, more importantly, communication.

LeHarrt91

If the main reason why Blast was nerfed again is because of the AoE potency of the stun..... make it single target.

Anti_Virus

TPishek wrote: »

All I want is an ice bear. And ice beetles. And to toss ice birds. Just make everything ice damage, that's what I'm getting at.

This should have been done a long time ago

Mr_Stach

Maybe turn Mag Shalks into this?

Mr_Stach

Also Warden doesn't really have a big burst Ult. What if we retooled Permafrost to be a Big Burst Damage with a Stun?

Greystag

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Maybe turn Mag Shalks into this?

I really hope they do. The assets are already in the game if you think about it.

lonnml

So ZOS just isn’t going to address any of the feedback given on warden’s patch notes? What’s the point of a public test server in the first place if they’re just going to ignore their player base

ESO_Nightingale

lonnml wrote: »

So ZOS just isn’t going to address any of the feedback given on warden’s patch notes? What’s the point of a public test server in the first place if they’re just going to ignore their player base

seems like they adressed every other major issue brought up, or at least attempted it. Meanwhile wardens get given this stuff we didn't need or even ask for and then get ignored once again.

Thecompton73

So I browsed through the whole thread and I was surprised no on pointed out that at a 10:1 SD/WD to max stat ratio the change to Northern Storm from 15% max magic to 300 SD/WD means that the damage is actually being nerfed for anyone with more than 20K max magic. If you're running with 30K max magic you're losing the equivalent of 150 SD. If you're running 40K, which isn't that hard to hit on Warden, you lose 50% of the effective damage buff with the PTS version compared to live. If they want to stick with it giving SD/WD it should be more like 500.

ESO_Nightingale

Thecompton73 wrote: »

So I browsed through the whole thread and I was surprised no on pointed out that at a 10:1 SD/WD to max stat ratio the change to Northern Storm from 15% max magic to 300 SD/WD means that the damage is actually being nerfed for anyone with more than 20K max magic. If you're running with 30K max magic you're losing the equivalent of 150 SD. If you're running 40K, which isn't that hard to hit on Warden, you lose 50% of the effective damage buff with the PTS version compared to live.

well, it wouldn't matter too much if they actually just made the ultimate worth casting in the first place, and no-one really is using it atm anyway.

Mr_Stach

Thecompton73 wrote: »

So I browsed through the whole thread and I was surprised no on pointed out that at a 10:1 SD/WD to max stat ratio the change to Northern Storm from 15% max magic to 300 SD/WD means that the damage is actually being nerfed for anyone with more than 20K max magic. If you're running with 30K max magic you're losing the equivalent of 150 SD. If you're running 40K, which isn't that hard to hit on Warden, you lose 50% of the effective damage buff with the PTS version compared to live.

That's an Excellent Point. Personally I would prefer them to just increase the damage and adding in Major Brittle. Or they could add a self-synergy to do a secondary slam for some extra damage.

Thecompton73

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

So I browsed through the whole thread and I was surprised no on pointed out that at a 10:1 SD/WD to max stat ratio the change to Northern Storm from 15% max magic to 300 SD/WD means that the damage is actually being nerfed for anyone with more than 20K max magic. If you're running with 30K max magic you're losing the equivalent of 150 SD. If you're running 40K, which isn't that hard to hit on Warden, you lose 50% of the effective damage buff with the PTS version compared to live.

well, it wouldn't matter too much if they actually just made the ultimate worth casting in the first place, and no-one really is using it atm anyway.

That's my point, it's a bad change because it's actually making an under-used Ulti skill even weaker for nearly all Warden builds. If the change was to make it more viable and worth using they totally missed the mark at just 300 SD/WD. The amount of SD/WD should be much higher, at least 500, but I'd go even further and say 800 SD/WD but for only 15-20 seconds.

Mr_Stach

Just want to reiterate my Idea of adding a slam at the end of the Blizzard or as a Self Synergy to buff up the damage potential.

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Maybe turn Mag Shalks into this?

100% this would be great change.

I have never liked the look of shalks, just weird looking.

Mr_Stach

I mean I don't mind Shalks. but there is basically no difference between Stam and Mag, it all looks identical when you play.

I think Zos needs to work on the Distinction between setups, yes Hybridization is here, but there should still be a difference between a Mag & Stam setup.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean I don't mind Shalks. but there is basically no difference between Stam and Mag, it all looks identical when you play.

I think Zos needs to work on the Distinction between setups, yes Hybridization is here, but there should still be a difference between a Mag & Stam setup.

well, i don't think it looks entirely identical, the poison shalks look way weirder on a frost build than the blue spectral shalks from deep fissure. it'd be nice if they were differently designed from eachother like how crystal frags/crystal weapon are.

Mr_Stach

I think the Reworks in general for Stam Sorc were great and they should take that kind of approach with more skills across all classes