High Isle's frustrating Warden changes are a disappointing step back.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

It's kinda funny when you look at end game tank setups that ultimately only use like 1-2 skills from the Warden "Tanking Tree". Hopefully we can add some new perspectives for some changes sooner rather than later

i just wish they'd communicate with us on what they're doing. or y'know. do some changes or something.

Pretty please but they say they will but they don't, i saw a video where was from a recent stream of zos and they were penalizing ppl for type pvp or pvp related stuff, I don't think they care anymore.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

It's kinda funny when you look at end game tank setups that ultimately only use like 1-2 skills from the Warden "Tanking Tree". Hopefully we can add some new perspectives for some changes sooner rather than later

i just wish they'd communicate with us on what they're doing. or y'know. do some changes or something.

Pretty please but they say they will but they don't, i saw a video where was from a recent stream of zos and they were penalizing ppl for type pvp or pvp related stuff, I don't think they care anymore.

Well i know about that situation, but it's not really related to us.

Mr_Stach

There's a large breadth of feedback that could improve the game. But there's definitely a vetting that is most likely happening. They need to sift through general complaints, non-feedback (Just yelling that something is bad without any kind of structured examples), Feedback with suggestions. There's just a bunch.

I feel we have provided a lot of Feedback with suggestions, which is more actionable, but there's also things that take time, Full Rework of skills doesn't happen overnight, but I would at least want to know if they're considering it,

Greystag

ZoS's actions lately have been downright upsetting. They seemed to be headed in a good direction with the Frost Reach changes. Especially with the Dev comments on Frostbite (and the set's implementation in the first place), and the lack of frost damage in the game.

Everything since has been either silence or things like Nunatak, which felt like a slap to the Frost Warden community. Even Glacial Guardian.

Now we get a frost-themed trial damage set (yay!) but it feels like a step back regardless. Our community has proposed so many creative ways to update these skills, just to be met with silence once again. I understand these changes take time to implement, but I also firmly believe that this exposes the Dev team's lack of communication (even despite saying that they would communicate more several times in the past) which is in my honest opinion one of the biggest reasons why this game continues to do worse. They focus on attracting players while the endgame community's size dwindles.

Mr_Stach

Yeah Nunatak is pretty abysmal. They are laser focused on these effects for Warden that require Build Up, Build up to Stun, Slow, apply Brittle. It makes Frost Warden feel sluggish when mDK gets to have all the class fantasy on demand, you get to be a Fire Breathin' Flame Lashin Dragon Man. And I want to have that same feeling on Warden.

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Yeah Nunatak is pretty abysmal. They are laser focused on these effects for Warden that require Build Up, Build up to Stun, Slow, apply Brittle. It makes Frost Warden feel sluggish when mDK gets to have all the class fantasy on demand, you get to be a Fire Breathin' Flame Lashin Dragon Man. And I want to have that same feeling on Warden.

Wardens lack of class identity, everything feels the same and rn with the hybridization even worse because we will use the morphs that are more useful and adapt the build around them.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Yeah Nunatak is pretty abysmal. They are laser focused on these effects for Warden that require Build Up, Build up to Stun, Slow, apply Brittle. It makes Frost Warden feel sluggish when mDK gets to have all the class fantasy on demand, you get to be a Fire Breathin' Flame Lashin Dragon Man. And I want to have that same feeling on Warden.

I'm glad that they made it potentially have a use. But it's still got an awful uptime.

Wolfpaw

Probably not something most would like, but I wish ZOS would take one of the bear ultimates in WoW's Druid direction.

Fuse with/or become a Bear, new one bar skills (like WW). Either a short duration burst high damage, or a on command transform unique support (not healer) role.

Mr_Stach

I mean, we can already transform into a WW, but if they added different Were-Skins, I would 1000% Be A Werebear.

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean, we can already transform into a WW, but if they added different Were-Skins, I would 1000% Be A Werebear.

I would love this on my Warden, I thought for sure I would be put on the forum firing squad for posting that idea lol.

Mr_Stach

Well I'm not sure Warden having a Ult turning into a werebear when WW still exists, but if they added different skins like says Werebear or Wereshark?

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well I'm not sure Warden having a Ult turning into a werebear when WW still exists, but if they added different skins like says Werebear or Wereshark?

Hey I'm for it all.

I originally meant the actual Bear like WoW did with its own skill bar. Tired of Bear ultimate being worthless in PvP, pathing, speed, & always dying.

SEINTDARKNES

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Probably not something most would like, but I wish ZOS would take one of the bear ultimates in WoW's Druid direction.

Fuse with/or become a Bear, new one bar skills (like WW). Either a short duration burst high damage, or a on command transform unique support (not healer) role.

I really like this because i think the warden need a burst dmg ultimate and i like too the werebear idea because right now we have some transformations like vamp ult, necro ult and ww so i think a werebear is not that bad idea.

Wolfpaw

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Probably not something most would like, but I wish ZOS would take one of the bear ultimates in WoW's Druid direction.

Fuse with/or become a Bear, new one bar skills (like WW). Either a short duration burst high damage, or a on command transform unique support (not healer) role.

I really like this because i think the warden need a burst dmg ultimate and i like too the werebear idea because right now we have some transformations like vamp ult, necro ult and ww so i think a werebear is not that bad idea.

Nice, got to give credit to @Mr_Stach for the Werebear. My idea was just a bear like our ultimate/WoW druid, I also like Werebear more though.

@zos_michaelzenke apologies if the tag is wrong, @zos window of tags not showing new lore master name when typed.

Lore friendly warden werebear or warden taking bear form? Hey its worth a shot

ESO_Nightingale

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well I'm not sure Warden having a Ult turning into a werebear when WW still exists, but if they added different skins like says Werebear or Wereshark?

Hey I'm for it all.

I originally meant the actual Bear like WoW did with its own skill bar. Tired of Bear ultimate being worthless in PvP, pathing, speed, & always dying.

They wouldn't do another ww-type form because 1: ww already exists and 2: it doesn't make sense for warden thematically. Since werewolves have origins with daedra. Specifically hircine. Y'ffre is warden's thing.

Mr_Stach

But if they added WW Skins similar to the Bear skin, that would be super rad.

Wolfpaw

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well I'm not sure Warden having a Ult turning into a werebear when WW still exists, but if they added different skins like says Werebear or Wereshark?

Hey I'm for it all.

I originally meant the actual Bear like WoW did with its own skill bar. Tired of Bear ultimate being worthless in PvP, pathing, speed, & always dying.

They wouldn't do another ww-type form because 1: ww already exists and 2: it doesn't make sense for warden thematically. Since werewolves have origins with daedra. Specifically hircine. Y'ffre is warden's thing.

What about actually fuse/shape shift into a bear, like current bear ultimate form? Can the warden (magic lore) make that possible?

Mr_Stach

The Warden is a Magical Story Teller that creates magical constructs. He's not say a Druid or anything like that.

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

The Warden is a Magical Story Teller that creates magical constructs. He's not say a Druid or anything like that.

Gotcha, thanks for the lore insight. Hopefully ZOS can do something, outside of a dummy parse bear ultimate is terrible. I would even be for making pets untargetable in pvp, even with the loss body blocking.

One morph for damage and one morph that does some aoe support buff/heal.

Mr_Stach

I mean Bear Ult is the best that Warden has for damage, it's consistent and cheap. And it's great for using with Master Architect, that's a consistent upkeep of Major Slayer.

Now Wild Guardian will also be great with Hemorrhage Upkeep along with this Set if you choose.

Eternal Guardian being able to respawn is weak, we've suggested making it do Frost Damage, but it will still be weaken than Wild I think without a really nice effect such as doing bonus damage to Chilled Targets or something.

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean Bear Ult is the best that Warden has for damage, it's consistent and cheap. And it's great for using with Master Architect, that's a consistent upkeep of Major Slayer.

Now Wild Guardian will also be great with Hemorrhage Upkeep along with this Set if you choose.

Eternal Guardian being able to respawn is weak, we've suggested making it do Frost Damage, but it will still be weaken than Wild I think without a really nice effect such as doing bonus damage to Chilled Targets or something.

Consistent on a stationary target, far to slow for pvp, ends up a bear rug within minutes. I don't run trials, how do you keep it.from dying constantly?

Mr_Stach

It never dies in Group Content, you should probably use something else for PvP. Permafrost is decent. Dawnbreaker or Ice Comet. Bear just dies in PvP.

Wolfpaw

Mr_Stach wrote: »

It never dies in Group Content, you should probably use something else for PvP. Permafrost is decent. Dawnbreaker or Ice Comet. Bear just dies in PvP.

Yup, I haven't had the bear out in PvP since release. Well here's hoping zos does something someday.

Aldoss

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean Bear Ult is the best that Warden has for damage, it's consistent and cheap. And it's great for using with Master Architect, that's a consistent upkeep of Major Slayer.

Now Wild Guardian will also be great with Hemorrhage Upkeep along with this Set if you choose.

Eternal Guardian being able to respawn is weak, we've suggested making it do Frost Damage, but it will still be weaken than Wild I think without a really nice effect such as doing bonus damage to Chilled Targets or something.

Consistent on a stationary target, far to slow for pvp, ends up a bear rug within minutes. I don't run trials, how do you keep it.from dying constantly?

You're not wrong, but I primarily use the bear in both cyro and bg environments and do like it better than other ult combos. Obviously the ai can be silly and its frustrating that it can't break free when I break free. I think that alone needs a ticket, because no other ult in the game can be countered in such a manner.

But when it does work, that dude is invaluable as a meat shield and a source of much needed burst simply because he doesn't always hit instantly. I think a polar bear with extra damage against chilled enemies is more than fair given its short comings.

Wolfpaw

Aldoss wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I mean Bear Ult is the best that Warden has for damage, it's consistent and cheap. And it's great for using with Master Architect, that's a consistent upkeep of Major Slayer.

Now Wild Guardian will also be great with Hemorrhage Upkeep along with this Set if you choose.

Eternal Guardian being able to respawn is weak, we've suggested making it do Frost Damage, but it will still be weaken than Wild I think without a really nice effect such as doing bonus damage to Chilled Targets or something.

Consistent on a stationary target, far to slow for pvp, ends up a bear rug within minutes. I don't run trials, how do you keep it.from dying constantly?

You're not wrong, but I primarily use the bear in both cyro and bg environments and do like it better than other ult combos. Obviously the ai can be silly and its frustrating that it can't break free when I break free. I think that alone needs a ticket, because no other ult in the game can be countered in such a manner.

But when it does work, that dude is invaluable as a meat shield and a source of much needed burst simply because he doesn't always hit instantly. I think a polar bear with extra damage against chilled enemies is more than fair given its short comings.

WoW had the same issues, like speed in pvp, long time ago when I played (stopped playing end of wotlk).

The solution I remember, Blizzard added a charge>stun to close the gap and stick to the enemy..I also remember the pet had some sort of enrage ability increasing damage output for X amount of time. This also made a great escape mechanic (if you had a target) for your pet to quickly leave a hot combat area.

This changed everything, & the beast master playstyle was brutal and fun.

1morph stay as is for pve (magic or frost damage)
1morph charge>stun pvp

Not sure if the eso pve and pvp community/devs can get behind something like this.

ESO_Nightingale

Wolfpaw wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Well I'm not sure Warden having a Ult turning into a werebear when WW still exists, but if they added different skins like says Werebear or Wereshark?

Hey I'm for it all.

I originally meant the actual Bear like WoW did with its own skill bar. Tired of Bear ultimate being worthless in PvP, pathing, speed, & always dying.

They wouldn't do another ww-type form because 1: ww already exists and 2: it doesn't make sense for warden thematically. Since werewolves have origins with daedra. Specifically hircine. Y'ffre is warden's thing.

What about actually fuse/shape shift into a bear, like current bear ultimate form? Can the warden (magic lore) make that possible?

I cant remember the lore exactly but i think(?) shape shifting is against y'ffre's whole thing unless the wild hunt is concerned

Mr_Stach

Y'ffre is basically the first Warden: "Y'ffre is strongly associated with songs and stories, as a mythical expression of his role in shaping the story of nature."

Also I don't think Hircine would much like Wardens and extend his "gift" to them.

"In older traditions, Nirni chose Y'ffer over Hircine as her mate after Y'ffer created the first flower for her and fathered many of her children. Heartbroken, Hircine slew the Graht-Elk, champion of Y'ffer, and took to wearing its head as a trophy."

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Y'ffre is basically the first Warden: "Y'ffre is strongly associated with songs and stories, as a mythical expression of his role in shaping the story of nature."

Also I don't think Hircine would much like Wardens and extend his "gift" to them.

"In older traditions, Nirni chose Y'ffer over Hircine as her mate after Y'ffer created the first flower for her and fathered many of her children. Heartbroken, Hircine slew the Graht-Elk, champion of Y'ffer, and took to wearing its head as a trophy."

Hmm. That's kinda weird that wardens can be werewolves then. Maybe hircine cares more that you'd be willing to do his bidding despite the fact that you may revere someone he despises.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Y'ffre is basically the first Warden: "Y'ffre is strongly associated with songs and stories, as a mythical expression of his role in shaping the story of nature."

Also I don't think Hircine would much like Wardens and extend his "gift" to them.

"In older traditions, Nirni chose Y'ffer over Hircine as her mate after Y'ffer created the first flower for her and fathered many of her children. Heartbroken, Hircine slew the Graht-Elk, champion of Y'ffer, and took to wearing its head as a trophy."

Hmm. That's kinda weird that wardens can be werewolves then. Maybe hircine cares more that you'd be willing to do his bidding despite the fact that you may revere someone he despises.

It's probably more from a gameplay standpoint, fun vs lore. Making Wardens unable to interact with WW would basically be Pay to Lose.

Mr_Stach

But that does bring up an interesting point. What are Zos' stance on Fun vs Fantasy?

I feel like Templars and Dragonknights get to "have their cake and eat it too" , they get their class fantasy and be very effective in their Fantasy across all content.