High Isle's frustrating Warden changes are a disappointing step back.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Going into CP stuff, I like CP for the most part, being able to increase player power beyond lvl 50
However, a class should be good/complete without it. It should amp classes, not patch up design flaws.

Just my 2 cents on that subject.

I dislike that cp just goes for raw damage boosts. I really believe that they should make more cps for build types like they did with bash. like with frost dps or bow dps.

Mr_Stach

Increasing the numbers is just the easy path.

I mean look at Occult Overload, it's unique and people complain about it constantly

ESO_Nightingale

This entire pts cycle has been a huge bruh moment

Mr_Stach

Anti_Virus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Well for self healing fungal growth works well for me but yeah as a healer in a group it sucks for the most part.

I'm surprised you think it works fine as a self heal. Because it's akin to trying to spam self heal yourself with necro's enduring undeath which isn't hugely effective.

My tooltip heals are usually 14K not including crits, idk what you guys are doing to get low heal power from the skill but it can be effective

what are your numbers in no-cp?

About 11-12K

ESO_Nightingale

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Well for self healing fungal growth works well for me but yeah as a healer in a group it sucks for the most part.

I'm surprised you think it works fine as a self heal. Because it's akin to trying to spam self heal yourself with necro's enduring undeath which isn't hugely effective.

My tooltip heals are usually 14K not including crits, idk what you guys are doing to get low heal power from the skill but it can be effective

what are your numbers in no-cp?

About 11-12K

you must be using like order of diagna+heartland conqueror to be getting tooltips that large on shrooms of all things. i would know because i used that to get that tooltip on blessing of resto before it got buffed. your damage or sustain must really be suffering there

Wolfpaw

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Well for self healing fungal growth works well for me but yeah as a healer in a group it sucks for the most part.

I'm surprised you think it works fine as a self heal. Because it's akin to trying to spam self heal yourself with necro's enduring undeath which isn't hugely effective.

My tooltip heals are usually 14K not including crits, idk what you guys are doing to get low heal power from the skill but it can be effective

what are your numbers in no-cp?

About 11-12K

you must be using like order of diagna+heartland conqueror to be getting tooltips that large on shrooms of all things. i would know because i used that to get that tooltip on blessing of resto before it got buffed. your damage or sustain must really be suffering there

I don't see anywhere those numbers in GH CP PvP with the standard heal sets like goss, spc, rallycry, markyn, PA, and X monster set. Maybe depending setup, group buffs, and critical.

I also don't wear +heal sets at all, maybe that's it.

veznan5

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

ESO_Nightingale

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

that's way too powerful.

Aldoss

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Well for self healing fungal growth works well for me but yeah as a healer in a group it sucks for the most part.

I'm surprised you think it works fine as a self heal. Because it's akin to trying to spam self heal yourself with necro's enduring undeath which isn't hugely effective.

My tooltip heals are usually 14K not including crits, idk what you guys are doing to get low heal power from the skill but it can be effective

what are your numbers in no-cp?

About 11-12K

What are you using to get that? I don't want to call BS without letting you say, but I'm on a high spell dmg build and I don't get tooltips that high.

Here's a cmx from a no-cp battleground I just participated in with stats. Average heal before battle spirit debuff would be just under 9k. That's with major and minor courage getting 6700 spell dmg.

veznan5

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

that's way too powerful.

would minor heroism be too powerful?

ESO_Nightingale

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

that's way too powerful.

would minor heroism be too powerful?

yes. that's extremely powerful. if they gave it minor heroism they'd need to give it a fair cost to compensate. when currently it costs 0.

veznan5

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

that's way too powerful.

would minor heroism be too powerful?

yes. that's extremely powerful. if they gave it minor heroism they'd need to give it a fair cost to compensate. when currently it costs 0.

The only skill that gives minor heroism right now is heroic slash which costs about 3000 Stam at base, but around 2500 if you take the passives and lasts for 12 seconds. So thats the only reference point in the game.

What if the netch had a health cost to use? You take direct damage to activate the skill or maybe you get a dot effect while its active.

ESO_Nightingale

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

veznan5 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Also updating that I'm currently not using netch because of how prevalent PB is right now and no other class has to make a choice between running a skill that gives an arguably required buff for all the game's content, some much needed sustain, but also purges a random effect on a time frame that is impossible to plan for.

Warden is the only class who can bomb themselves, through no control of their own (except for dropping a class defining skill), simply because someone light attacked them and the warden was too close to too many people when their netch pulls the unlucky number.

Plars can choose to drop their purify or not on the fly, depending on the situation and can heads up move away from a group to drop it. Teammates can choose to not use the synergy.

Necros can make the same decision on the fly and purge on their terms.

Wardens have 0 control over this and can sometimes suffer upwards of 6-10k damage with no opponent nearby, simply from an opponent light attacking them and their netch cleansing the effect during a moment when their team was stacked near them.

If magdens aren't allowed to be near their team because of this set, then we need some better direction and more tools that actually help the class stay alive on their own. There's a reason why most of the 1vx'ers are on dks, plars, or stamblades at the moment.

After maining stamden most of last patch, I'd argue that this one experience is not as prevalent on that flavor of warden. Stamdens are typically near the front of the battle, actually making some use out of their only good class stun (or dswinging for the bleachers) and are in a pretty good spot in this meta.

Does this need to be addressed immediately? No. This isn't some rage quit complaint or anything. I'm more than content to remove it and run pots to do almost what netch does, but without that one draw back. Yet, it just seems to add to this very extensive list of things that make magden seem so wrong and consistently fighting this uphill battle against the ZOS combat development team.

We're getting left behind and it's so tragic.

I'd like to see autopurge removed too in order to see more resource return or something.

Maybe heroism instead of the debuff purge? it'd have usability to both mag and Stam builds even in pre-morph

that's way too powerful.

would minor heroism be too powerful?

yes. that's extremely powerful. if they gave it minor heroism they'd need to give it a fair cost to compensate. when currently it costs 0.

The only skill that gives minor heroism right now is heroic slash which costs about 3000 Stam at base, but around 2500 if you take the passives and lasts for 12 seconds. So thats the only reference point in the game.

What if the netch had a health cost to use? You take direct damage to activate the skill or maybe you get a dot effect while its active.

It doesn't need that or to harm self.

Mr_Stach

So as a Side note, an interesting idea would be to add the purge effect onto soothing spores (instead of the range thing) but increase the negative effects removed. That would allow Betty to just give back more resources.

Win-win in my book.

Anti_Virus

Aldoss wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Well for self healing fungal growth works well for me but yeah as a healer in a group it sucks for the most part.

I'm surprised you think it works fine as a self heal. Because it's akin to trying to spam self heal yourself with necro's enduring undeath which isn't hugely effective.

My tooltip heals are usually 14K not including crits, idk what you guys are doing to get low heal power from the skill but it can be effective

what are your numbers in no-cp?

About 11-12K

What are you using to get that? I don't want to call BS without letting you say, but I'm on a high spell dmg build and I don't get tooltips that high.

Here's a cmx from a no-cp battleground I just participated in with stats. Average heal before battle spirit debuff would be just under 9k. That's with major and minor courage getting 6700 spell dmg.

I play my warden with maximum stamina(27k)and weapon damage(7400)

Keep in mind you passively gain major mending too when you drop below 40%

Aldoss

So, not magden. Not that this thread is solely about magden, but it's relatively common knowledge that stamden is in a good place right now. It's good that they can get good use out of fungal, but it's still frustrating that as a magden, this burst heal does 3-4k less with the same gear, same buffs, as a magplar, magcro, or magsorc.

Is the tooltip you're boasting with or without major mending?

Mr_Stach

Zos has been working on making Stamden good for a while and it's paid off. Still has more to go, I would still like some addition to a Stam based Damage Passive. Bleed would make sense

ESO_Nightingale

I suppose we should echo the same points we had here again at a later point. I'm going to solely focus on blast when the time comes because it is imperative that that skill changes asap.

Anti_Virus

Aldoss wrote: »

So, not magden. Not that this thread is solely about magden, but it's relatively common knowledge that stamden is in a good place right now. It's good that they can get good use out of fungal, but it's still frustrating that as a magden, this burst heal does 3-4k less with the same gear, same buffs, as a magplar, magcro, or magsorc.

Is the tooltip you're boasting with or without major mending?

Magden/ stamden don’t really exist anymore its just warden now, you could achieve the stats I got by wearing the same gear and stacking weapon damage

Mr_Stach

Different Playstyles still 100% Exist. Hybridization did not remove Stam and Magicka, and in most cases Hybridization improved Stamina Setups across the board while Magicka Setups are for the most part unchanged.

So with that Said, Stamina Warden is fine and has gotten better, while Magden is stale and needs changes.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Different Playstyles still 100% Exist. Hybridization did not remove Stam and Magicka, and in most cases Hybridization improved Stamina Setups across the board while Magicka Setups are for the most part unchanged.

So with that Said, Stamina Warden is fine and has gotten better, while Magden is stale and needs changes.

I swear, every time magden gets any buffs stamden gets more out of it

ESO_Nightingale

i can't believe they let this go live. but at the same time, i can, because it's zos.