High Isle's frustrating Warden changes are a disappointing step back.

ESO_Nightingale

Fizzyapple wrote: »

"Right now, this ability is offering too much offensive nature for the Warden, allowing them to line up their burst perfectly with Scorch to remove counter play."

I only play Warden and this is something I've never done nor seen in BGS and I play several games a day. The change doesn't bother me because its just not a very useful stun to begin with. The few times I've actually stunned anyone was because they were jammed up in a tunnel or something similar. I've adapted by utilizing a stun from a weapon skill line. Not ideal but works for me. I'm not going to complain about the other changes because I kind of like them.

The Bear changes are fine and much needed just take a look at esologs this patch. For those who don't understand how or why the Bear is useful in BGS or other pvp areas quoting things such as easy to dodge and easy to kill I ask you to think carefully about that for a second.

The bear changes would be fine if wild guardian's immense power was toned down and if eternal guardian had some niche that mattered enough.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Recorded another duel using both crys slab and arctic blast. this is probably the meanest i'm gonna be during this pts cycle, but these stuns are annoying as all hell to use for me because i can't properly control them, it's even worse than on live. We didn't ask for more reactive stuns. There is no reason to use arctic blast going forward because it's so damn slow. crys slab's stun is uncalled for. the skill is too one-sided and the reactiveness of it just keeps giving free cc immunity just like blast. Just because a skill can stun, doesn't mean the stun is good and especially not good for the game, these are 2 amazing examples of how not to implement stuns in ESO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2jiHm_u88

Oof, and the heal isn’t strong enough for a dps for be worth the cost. What a shame.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Recorded another duel using both crys slab and arctic blast. this is probably the meanest i'm gonna be during this pts cycle, but these stuns are annoying as all hell to use for me because i can't properly control them, it's even worse than on live. We didn't ask for more reactive stuns. There is no reason to use arctic blast going forward because it's so damn slow. crys slab's stun is uncalled for. the skill is too one-sided and the reactiveness of it just keeps giving free cc immunity just like blast. Just because a skill can stun, doesn't mean the stun is good and especially not good for the game, these are 2 amazing examples of how not to implement stuns in ESO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE2jiHm_u88

Oof, and the heal isn’t strong enough for a dps for be worth the cost. What a shame.

it's so awful now that i don't think anyone has any reason to use it in any form of content whatsoever. it does nothing well.

SEINTDARKNES

Will wardens have some love? Will see in a couple hours!

I'm afraid i have a bad feeling and we will get another of these changes no body ask, i hope I'm wrong:(

Daoin

can i just point out ever since the warden was introduced i have not created one as it did not appeal to me, so any changes in any form would atleast make me want to look again at the class !

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love? Will see in a couple hours!

I'm afraid i have a bad feeling and we will get another of these changes no body ask, i hope I'm wrong:(

While it's not impossible, i really doubt that we'll see any changes to warden during week 2. changes usually come week 3 and 4.

ESO_Nightingale

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

SEINTDARKNES

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

Make sure to use the /feedback function in-game on the pts. It's not often used but they have emphasised using it in the past as a way to submit feedback. It's best to submit one bug/feedback issue at a time though as the description you can write has a limited number of characters.

Mr_Stach

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

Make sure to use the /feedback function in-game on the pts. It's not often used but they have emphasised using it in the past as a way to submit feedback. It's best to submit one bug/feedback issue at a time though as the description you can write has a limited number of characters.

Can i ask you for something?

Do you believe the netch skill and morphs will need to be buffed?

Why i ask this? Well in the past netch skill was buffed and was stated that this skill was the only skill that have both major brutality and major sorcery but with the skill hybridization some skills have the same effect so the netch skill it's no longer unique and if we want these effects we have a lot of options to choose, right now the skill only work for sustain and an okeysh purge in pve and a bad purge in pvp.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

Make sure to use the /feedback function in-game on the pts. It's not often used but they have emphasised using it in the past as a way to submit feedback. It's best to submit one bug/feedback issue at a time though as the description you can write has a limited number of characters.

Can i ask you for something?

Do you believe the netch skill and morphs will need to be buffed?

Why i ask this? Well in the past netch skill was buffed and was stated that this skill was the only skill that have both major brutality and major sorcery but with the skill hybridization some skills have the same effect so the netch skill it's no longer unique and if we want these effects we have a lot of options to choose, right now the skill only work for sustain and an okeysh purge in pve and a bad purge in pvp.

Hmm. If I'm being honest, I'd rather them look at other skills first before betty. But if I'd want any changes to betty, I'd remove the auto purge function and just keep it to 1 purge on cast, along with increasing it's resource return a bit.

SEINTDARKNES

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

Make sure to use the /feedback function in-game on the pts. It's not often used but they have emphasised using it in the past as a way to submit feedback. It's best to submit one bug/feedback issue at a time though as the description you can write has a limited number of characters.

Can i ask you for something?

Do you believe the netch skill and morphs will need to be buffed?

Why i ask this? Well in the past netch skill was buffed and was stated that this skill was the only skill that have both major brutality and major sorcery but with the skill hybridization some skills have the same effect so the netch skill it's no longer unique and if we want these effects we have a lot of options to choose, right now the skill only work for sustain and an okeysh purge in pve and a bad purge in pvp.

Hmm. If I'm being honest, I'd rather them look at other skills first before betty. But if I'd want any changes to betty, I'd remove the auto purge function and just keep it to 1 purge on cast, along with increasing it's resource return a bit.

Yes i think it's better if we get some buffs in other more important skills and I'm glad that ppl are discussing the artic blast change because i never seeing so many interactions from wardens in the past. Keep the feedback going!

Mr_Stach

So while I was writing my post/rant about stuff, I realized that Arctic Wind is now a simply worse Time Freeze. So that's super cool.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

So while I was writing my post/rant about stuff, I realized that Arctic Wind is now a simply worse Time Freeze. So that's super cool.

yeah that's pretty bad. Blast is in such an awful state that even time freeze stuns faster than it lol.

ESO_Nightingale

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SEINTDARKNES wrote: »

Will wardens have some love

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Yeah, no changes, but they did at least fix the whorl of the depths issue when the target dies. So there's that at least.

Yes i saw that I'm glad it was fix, now i hope we get some nice buffs to our less used skills and get that sweet artic blast change.

Make sure to use the /feedback function in-game on the pts. It's not often used but they have emphasised using it in the past as a way to submit feedback. It's best to submit one bug/feedback issue at a time though as the description you can write has a limited number of characters.

Can i ask you for something?

Do you believe the netch skill and morphs will need to be buffed?

Why i ask this? Well in the past netch skill was buffed and was stated that this skill was the only skill that have both major brutality and major sorcery but with the skill hybridization some skills have the same effect so the netch skill it's no longer unique and if we want these effects we have a lot of options to choose, right now the skill only work for sustain and an okeysh purge in pve and a bad purge in pvp.

Hmm. If I'm being honest, I'd rather them look at other skills first before betty. But if I'd want any changes to betty, I'd remove the auto purge function and just keep it to 1 purge on cast, along with increasing it's resource return a bit.

Yes i think it's better if we get some buffs in other more important skills and I'm glad that ppl are discussing the artic blast change because i never seeing so many interactions from wardens in the past. Keep the feedback going!

I've never seen our community this active. it's great that everyone is talking.

MashmalloMan

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

ESO_Nightingale

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

Yeah i think templar or nightblade deserves to have the mag damage passive instead, bleed bonuses on piercing cold would be great, but even still there's just so little representation of frost damage in warden's kit anyway. making some or all of the mag morphs of animal companions still wouldn't be enough. we need another frost damage skill on warden's base kit in winter's embrace, and arctic is the perfect candidate for such a thing.

Runefang

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

Yeah i think templar or nightblade deserves to have the mag damage passive instead, bleed bonuses on piercing cold would be great, but even still there's just so little representation of frost damage in warden's kit anyway. making some or all of the mag morphs of animal companions still wouldn't be enough. we need another frost damage skill on warden's base kit in winter's embrace, and arctic is the perfect candidate for such a thing.

I’d take frozen gate as a frost version of scalding rune even.

ESO_Nightingale

Runefang wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

Yeah i think templar or nightblade deserves to have the mag damage passive instead, bleed bonuses on piercing cold would be great, but even still there's just so little representation of frost damage in warden's kit anyway. making some or all of the mag morphs of animal companions still wouldn't be enough. we need another frost damage skill on warden's base kit in winter's embrace, and arctic is the perfect candidate for such a thing.

I’d take frozen gate as a frost version of scalding rune even.

As stupendously boring as that is, it's still infinitely better than frozen retreat remaining as awful as it is. It's practically useless.

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

Yeah i think templar or nightblade deserves to have the mag damage passive instead, bleed bonuses on piercing cold would be great, but even still there's just so little representation of frost damage in warden's kit anyway. making some or all of the mag morphs of animal companions still wouldn't be enough. we need another frost damage skill on warden's base kit in winter's embrace, and arctic is the perfect candidate for such a thing.

I’d take frozen gate as a frost version of scalding rune even.

As stupendously boring as that is, it's still infinitely better than frozen retreat remaining as awful as it is. It's practically useless.

The only situation that i have seen Frozen retreat used is when someone is stuck in a rock or something and the warden uses it to get them out.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Just gonna toss in my thoughts here while we're brainstorming on Warden. Typically on classes there will be something that increases their unique damage type, like Sorc has Shock and Physical, DK has Fire & Poison. Warden has 2 magicka based buffs, Magic & Frost, while Stam doesn't get any cool buffs.

So to the meat, what if we were to remove the Magic Damage bit and replace it with Bleed Damage, bam Stamden gets something.

Now to come full circle, Remove all magic damage from Warden and switch it to Frost Damage. Bam Frost Warden gets it's kit filled with frost, everyone is happy.

I've suggested this too. It seems like a no brainer, yeah Warden loses some damage on skills like orbs, degen or.. well not much, but Stamden needs a bit more class identity too.

Funny enough, Stamden has more bleed skills than frostens frost skills.

What's even weirder is that Warden's Piercing Cold passive use to give a buff to Frost Damage and Physical Damage during the PTS. For whatever reason they changed it. At the time, Bleed damage wasn't it's own thing, it was a sub damage type of Physical, so maybe ZOS didn't want to step on Sorc toes. Nowadays, a Bleed passive would make much more sense.

It's much more interesting for class diversity.

Plus, magicka damage is more common on Templar. They may not have a passive for it, but it fits their class theme of using holy light way more than a Warden.

Yeah i think templar or nightblade deserves to have the mag damage passive instead, bleed bonuses on piercing cold would be great, but even still there's just so little representation of frost damage in warden's kit anyway. making some or all of the mag morphs of animal companions still wouldn't be enough. we need another frost damage skill on warden's base kit in winter's embrace, and arctic is the perfect candidate for such a thing.

I’d take frozen gate as a frost version of scalding rune even.

As stupendously boring as that is, it's still infinitely better than frozen retreat remaining as awful as it is. It's practically useless.

The only situation that i have seen Frozen retreat used is when someone is stuck in a rock or something and the warden uses it to get them out.

its fun to use in towns because literally no-one has ever seen the morph used before and are completely enamored by the synergy lol.

SEINTDARKNES

The only situation that i have seen Frozen retreat used is when someone is stuck in a rock or something and the warden uses it to get them out

The only time i use frozen gate i knew it was a bad skill, it's slow takes time to arm the portal and doesn't pull more than 1 enemy at the same time and it's some difficult to use at large distances that's why i use silver leash because it's faster i have the warranty that i will pull the enemy i want to pull and i dont have any problems with the distance of the skill because if you are off of the distance the skill cannot be use.

Maybe if frozen gate doesn't have time to arm the portal and pull more than 3 enemies at the same time will be better.

Frozen retreat is bad in every way, im really surprised because no one use this morph and i think it's time to get a rework.

Kartalin

One time we actually found Frozen gate useful: in Cyrodiil the hammer carrier was pounding on the front door, we threw down frozen gate from inside so that it partially went under the door and managed to pull the guy in, kill him and take the hammer while he was still confused about what happened, and then repair the door.

I think they fixed it so you couldn’t pull people through doors since then, not sure.

Mr_Stach

Kartalin wrote: »

One time we actually found Frozen gate useful: in Cyrodiil the hammer carrier was pounding on the front door, we threw down frozen gate from inside so that it partially went under the door and managed to pull the guy in, kill him and take the hammer while he was still confused about what happened, and then repair the door.

I think they fixed it so you couldn’t pull people through doors since then, not sure.

I think it's really cool to have an experience like this, but it kind of falls back to the idea, would you like to have a skill with really Niche uses? Or a skill that you can use in a variety of situations.

The Idea of Frozen Gate is interesting, but I'd much prefer some more consistent uses for it, maybe an Ice Rune that does an AoE Snap Freeze.

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

One time we actually found Frozen gate useful: in Cyrodiil the hammer carrier was pounding on the front door, we threw down frozen gate from inside so that it partially went under the door and managed to pull the guy in, kill him and take the hammer while he was still confused about what happened, and then repair the door.

I think they fixed it so you couldn’t pull people through doors since then, not sure.

I think it's really cool to have an experience like this, but it kind of falls back to the idea, would you like to have a skill with really Niche uses? Or a skill that you can use in a variety of situations.

The Idea of Frozen Gate is interesting, but I'd much prefer some more consistent uses for it, maybe an Ice Rune that does an AoE Snap Freeze.

That's essentially the quick temporary solution i suggested to zos in this thread so they could put some more time into and really get an actual on-demand offensive stun right.

Kartalin

True, the fact we only found one niche use after however many years is disappointing regardless. I'd be up for literally any change here, but moving towards a more frost oriented class would be good (magdk is fire, magsorc is lightning, so....).

Love the Mahouka clip (for real, turn northern storm into niflheim lol)

Mr_Stach

Kartalin wrote: »

True, the fact we only found one niche use after however many years is disappointing regardless. I'd be up for literally any change here, but moving towards a more frost oriented class would be good (magdk is fire, magsorc is lightning, so....).

Love the Mahouka clip (for real, turn northern storm into niflheim lol)

Definitely, there's so many great examples in media of fantastical uses of Ice Magic, but we got the disney approach of chilly wind and slippy floor, there could be so many cool things.

Mr_Stach

With Wild Guardian being all bleedy with Hemorrhage, Eternal Guardian is VERY Bland now. So in efforts to alleviate that, here's the Arctic Guardian, refocusing the damage to Frost Damage and dealing extra damage to chilled targets with the Maul ability.

SEINTDARKNES

Mr_Stach wrote: »

With Wild Guardian being all bleedy with Hemorrhage, Eternal Guardian is VERY Bland now. So in efforts to alleviate that, here's the Arctic Guardian, refocusing the damage to Frost Damage and dealing extra damage to chilled targets with the Maul ability.

I think this is the a great option to make the magicka morph more viable since the buff for stamina morph will be always better and magicka morph will be forgotten into the oblivion like stamina morph was until the buff in the pts week 1