Nunatak is an incredible disappointment 5 years in the making.

lQrukl

Who needs major brittle? 12ppl groups already have 125% critical damage, so they don't need that

Khajiit + Major Brittle + Axes + anything else = 16% from Malacath
(~175% crit damage - 50% ring = same 125% but with free +16% pure damage)
Cant wait new 150k parses
Imagine GS for 20 mins.

divnyi

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback on this set, everyone. Just wanted to make you aware that we've implemented a few changes to Nunatak in today's PTS patch, along with a Dev Comment so you have a better understanding of our vision for this set.

To bring Nunatak closer to its intended goal of a PvP mask focused on zone control, it has been updated to apply a debuff stack any time it deals damage, and to apply Major Brittle when the stack count reaches 4. The snare strength is still dictated by the stack count and can be negated by Snare Immunity, but standing in the area for the whole duration is no longer just a minor nuisance.

Saying from PvP perspective: no, this isn't gonna work as ground control. Major Brittle is a minor nuisance in PvP. All the crit builds you can do in PvP can't just stand and wait for 4s for something to happen. Something that is very easily avoidable. Most players however don't have any crit in PvP.

4th second needs some burst damage to be ground control. Or longer duration. Or shorter build-up (preferably).
Or this effect to happen around character instead of ground effect.

You intended to build PvP-related set, obtainable in PvP location.
It didn't hit the mark for both PvE and PvP.
You made a change that makes PvE players happy.
Did you forget about someone?

Excelsus

I wish magden had a solid pvp direction that wasnt just the buff *****. Magdks overwhelm with DoTs and received a blessing with plaguebreak which makes their dots deadly to purge. Magden pvp fantasy should be freezing an enemy with major and minor brittle then shattering them with boosted crits but that silly 1p armor bonus and wardens lack of reliable stun to enable Nuna to stack.... im hoping Night will figure out some magic use for this set because theres potential.

Eormenric

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback on this set, everyone. Just wanted to make you aware that we've implemented a few changes to Nunatak in today's PTS patch, along with a Dev Comment so you have a better understanding of our vision for this set.

First, thank you for the communication in this thread. Second, this is an improvement, but only a piece of what all of us here were theorycrafting for the set. Here's the issues:

a) By leaving the (1) as Armor and still basing the damage off Weapon and Spell Damage, this is forcing this set in a PvP environment when its uses could be--and want to be--used elsewhere, not only because of Major Brittle (which removing the immobilization allows PvE use--nice) but to aid frost dps. So Nunatak has gained PvE use without PvE applicable stats. At least max health would be the bare minimum stat here, though tri-stat is better.

b) If zone control is the intended goal, this isn't really it. All it does is force a few players to use dodge roll and resume what they were doing previously. Dark Convergence offers better control if you're looking to sporadically displace a large number of players.

c) By still allowing an AoE Major Brittle and now adding up to a 75% snare (the new highest in the game), you've just opened up a potentially very easy combo in PvP: Volcanic Rune>[deal frost damage; even an ice staff light attack]>players get knocked up and stunned for 3 seconds and must Break Free AND Dodge Roll to barely get away with 3 stacks. Waste a second and you're trapped. If they don't dodge roll, they are immobilized and all gain Major Brittle. (You know DKs are going to sub VR with Leap.) This doesn't give a lot of wiggle room. A Volcanic Rune>Ice LA/Frost Enchant Proc>Charge with Rush of Agony equipped is going to pool every nearby player and immobilize and major brittle them with passive frost damage. We're going to see this everywhere in Cyrodiil and probably BGs too. If the trend of releasing overpowered sets only to nerf them after a year remains, this set will see the most complaint threads until that happens.

ESO_Nightingale

divnyi wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback on this set, everyone. Just wanted to make you aware that we've implemented a few changes to Nunatak in today's PTS patch, along with a Dev Comment so you have a better understanding of our vision for this set.

To bring Nunatak closer to its intended goal of a PvP mask focused on zone control, it has been updated to apply a debuff stack any time it deals damage, and to apply Major Brittle when the stack count reaches 4. The snare strength is still dictated by the stack count and can be negated by Snare Immunity, but standing in the area for the whole duration is no longer just a minor nuisance.

Saying from PvP perspective: no, this isn't gonna work as ground control. Major Brittle is a minor nuisance in PvP. All the crit builds you can do in PvP can't just stand and wait for 4s for something to happen. Something that is very easily avoidable. Most players however don't have any crit in PvP.

4th second needs some burst damage to be ground control. Or longer duration. Or shorter build-up (preferably).
Or this effect to happen around character instead of ground effect.

You intended to build PvP-related set, obtainable in PvP location.
It didn't hit the mark for both PvE and PvP.
You made a change that makes PvE players happy.
Did you forget about someone?

i don't think this'll ever work as a balanced pvp set in it's current direction, it's certainly better for pve with it's current design because you can keep enemies still for 4 seconds. but in pvp unless this thing has double the radius it's not going to pull it off. and if it was that large it'd be incredibly toxic since it snares. they'd have to re-do the set from the ground up for that to happen.

Excelsus

divnyi wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback on this set, everyone. Just wanted to make you aware that we've implemented a few changes to Nunatak in today's PTS patch, along with a Dev Comment so you have a better understanding of our vision for this set.

To bring Nunatak closer to its intended goal of a PvP mask focused on zone control, it has been updated to apply a debuff stack any time it deals damage, and to apply Major Brittle when the stack count reaches 4. The snare strength is still dictated by the stack count and can be negated by Snare Immunity, but standing in the area for the whole duration is no longer just a minor nuisance.

Saying from PvP perspective: no, this isn't gonna work as ground control. Major Brittle is a minor nuisance in PvP. All the crit builds you can do in PvP can't just stand and wait for 4s for something to happen. Something that is very easily avoidable. Most players however don't have any crit in PvP.

4th second needs some burst damage to be ground control. Or longer duration. Or shorter build-up (preferably).
Or this effect to happen around character instead of ground effect.

You intended to build PvP-related set, obtainable in PvP location.
It didn't hit the mark for both PvE and PvP.
You made a change that makes PvE players happy.
Did you forget about someone?

This. The only way this would work in pvp is if crit builds were more threatening. Perhaps a reverse malacath mythic. And major brittle would have to apply faster. 4 seconds is death in pvp for a burst spec.

ESO_Nightingale

Excelsus wrote: »

I wish magden had a solid pvp direction that wasnt just the buff *****. Magdks overwhelm with DoTs and received a blessing with plaguebreak which makes their dots deadly to purge. Magden pvp fantasy should be freezing an enemy with major and minor brittle then shattering them with boosted crits but that silly 1p armor bonus and wardens lack of reliable stun to enable Nuna to stack.... im hoping Night will figure out some magic use for this set because theres potential.

oh, no i'm not doing anything yet since i'm like 10 hours away from being able to test, but there's already talk of experimenting with the malacath mythic on the ESOU discord if you were to stack full crit dmg. seems pretty gimicky at this stage.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback on this set, everyone. Just wanted to make you aware that we've implemented a few changes to Nunatak in today's PTS patch, along with a Dev Comment so you have a better understanding of our vision for this set.

First, thank you for the communication in this thread. Second, this is an improvement, but only a piece of what all of us here were theorycrafting for the set. Here's the issues:

a) By leaving the (1) as Armor and still basing the damage off Weapon and Spell Damage, this is forcing this set in a PvP environment when its uses could be--and want to be--used elsewhere, not only because of Major Brittle (which removing the immobilization allows PvE use--nice) but to aid frost dps. So Nunatak has gained PvE use without PvE applicable stats. At least max health would be the bare minimum stat here, though tri-stat is better.

b) If zone control is the intended goal, this isn't really it. All it does is force a few players to use dodge roll and resume what they were doing previously. Dark Convergence offers better control if you're looking to sporadically displace a large number of players.

c) By still allowing an AoE Major Brittle and now adding up to a 75% snare (the new highest in the game), you've just opened up a potentially very easy combo in PvP: Volcanic Rune>[deal frost damage; even an ice staff light attack]>players get knocked up and stunned for 3 seconds and must Break Free AND Dodge Roll to barely get away with 3 stacks. Waste a second and you're trapped. If they don't dodge roll, they are immobilized and all gain Major Brittle. (You know DKs are going to sub VR with Leap.) This doesn't give a lot of wiggle room. A Volcanic Rune>Ice LA/Frost Enchant Proc>Charge with Rush of Agony equipped is going to pool every nearby player and immobilize and major brittle them with passive frost damage. We're going to see this everywhere in Cyrodiil and probably BGs too. If the trend of releasing overpowered sets only to nerf them after a year remains, this set will see the most complaint threads until that happens.

a: absolutely. armor is one of the worst bonuses for this type of set. if we're going for crit damage it'd make most sense for it to drop with crit chance instead, or at least weapon/spell damage. if it's for tanking then tri stat is probably the next best thing.

b: yeah it's not a great pvp set with a 4 second stack mechanic in a smallish aoe. it just isn't ever really going to be great in this regard based on this design

c: you'd have to test this but it actually sounds like a hugely niche settup that isn't really overpowered.

divnyi

Eormenric wrote: »

now adding up to a 75% snare (the new highest in the game)

Ash Cloud is 70% without any build-up.

potentially very easy combo in PvP: Volcanic Rune>[deal frost damage; even an ice staff light attack]>players get knocked up and stunned

Rune takes 2 seconds to arm.

Rush of Agony

Can make much more potent things than just apply brittle on everyone inside if you did good pull with Rush.

If the trend of releasing overpowered sets only to nerf them after a year

This set is not OP in PvP.
I doubt it will be used outside of occasional tests to confirm that it doesn't do anything.

Eormenric

divnyi wrote: »

Ash Cloud is 70% without any build-up.

Div, you know not everyone is a DK, right? I know that's how PvP looks right now, but...

Rune takes 2 seconds to arm.

Which is exactly enough time to set up the combo I said.

Can make much more potent things than just apply brittle on everyone inside if you did good pull with Rush.

I've yet to see a good RoA used. They usually dart in and die from no other CC or supportive damage.

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

LeHarrt91

Glad to see the change to make the set perform better.

Eormenric

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

TPishek

Beyond underwhelming set for any application, even after changes.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

not everyone has the time to block all day.

BronzeCaiman

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

not everyone has the time to block all day.

GG buff block.

But seriously, dark convergence is fine where it's at, pulling people off walls is valid, better than a keep never getting captured. Besides, how else are we going to catch the Nightblades who keep jumping off the keep wall only to shadow image back up?

ESO_Nightingale

BlackArgonian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

not everyone has the time to block all day.

GG buff block.

But seriously, dark convergence is fine where it's at, pulling people off walls is valid, better than a keep never getting captured. Besides, how else are we going to catch the Nightblades who keep jumping off the keep wall only to shadow image back up?

I think DC is frustrating but it's an example of an incredibly good zoning set while nunatak is not because it's not immediately powerful or annoying enough to feel punishing.

Excelsus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

not everyone has the time to block all day.

GG buff block.

But seriously, dark convergence is fine where it's at, pulling people off walls is valid, better than a keep never getting captured. Besides, how else are we going to catch the Nightblades who keep jumping off the keep wall only to shadow image back up?

I think DC is frustrating but it's an example of an incredibly good zoning set while nunatak is not because it's not immediately powerful or annoying enough to feel punishing.

Agreed. DC forces you to nake concessions, block and dodge out or take massive damage and be left open to follow up. Nunatak as a pvp focused monster set should at least approach this level of danger. Stacks should either do escalating damage or the major brittle should be applied at stack 2 if this is to be a zoning tool. Nunatak (the boss) leaves deadly ice patches on the ground that will quickly kill you. The set should emulate that sense of urgency.

BronzeCaiman

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

You both think it's niche and not strong? That's surprising. I feel the same way about Dark Convergence yet people think that set is overpowered. I've never died with DC being a factor, but I have nuked a bunch of people with it. I could totally see the same use for this set. If it does release like this, my warden bomb will be returning for some easy group kills. We'll see how they handle this set. I'll be honestly shocked and hopeful for the future of ESO feedback if they change it again.

the problem with DC is the pull. this set doesn't pull in.

But you can block the pull and go about your day. I don't think we should try and make this a frost DC set. I think there's room for other forms of herd pressure. They just need to read this entire thread instead of a few comments and go, "Oooooh. You didn't like the immobili--well why didn't you say so? Fixed."

not everyone has the time to block all day.

GG buff block.

But seriously, dark convergence is fine where it's at, pulling people off walls is valid, better than a keep never getting captured. Besides, how else are we going to catch the Nightblades who keep jumping off the keep wall only to shadow image back up?

I think DC is frustrating but it's an example of an incredibly good zoning set while nunatak is not because it's not immediately powerful or annoying enough to feel punishing.

What if it had heal absorption added to each stack, or was that mechanic useless/forgotten?

Excelsus

The real question though, is the animation fixed?

ESO_Nightingale

Excelsus wrote: »

The real question though, is the animation fixed?

It is not.

Contraptions

At least they untied the brittle from the immobilize so there's still some hope for PVE use I guess.

Animation still looks silly though. See Weeping Woman in DOM for nice frost AOEs. I was hoping it would be like a frost version of DK standard with shards of ice coming out of the ground instead of rocks.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

lQrukl wrote: »

Who needs major brittle? 12ppl groups already have 125% critical damage, so they don't need that

Khajiit + Major Brittle + Axes + anything else = 16% from Malacath
(~175% crit damage - 50% ring = same 125% but with free +16% pure damage)
Cant wait new 150k parses
Imagine GS for 20 mins.

Where is this discord group at? because by golly I thought of this immediately and I need to get incorporated into fellow theory crafters who think like this. Malacath will be top tier and so surprised I didn't see more comments about it earlier on here, especially with a 45 second Major Force uptime from a Saxhleel's Champion + Jorvuld's Guidance + New Monster debuff extension set using a Barrier after a Necromancer hits the boss with Goliath. G-freaking-G.

I had 276% CRIT damage, full medium, Khajiit - totally forgot about possibility of axes freaking increased critical damage (I would use Daggers every time due to the crazy critical damage output). Mathematically speaking, even hitting only 200% crit damage multiplier after Malacath would still put out more damage due to that 16% damage translating to 32% damage with that
200% CRIT modifier, having 7% MORE damage when comparing to 25% crit damage difference moving from 200% to the 225% CRIT max. So even only hitting 200% CRIT damage with Malacath still gives excellent damage boost, but it's so easy to hit CRIT max anyway.

Critical Damage Boosts:

Constant: Base 50%, Backstabber CP 15%, Precision CP 10%, Minor Force 10%, Major Force 20%, Minor Brittle 10%, Major Brittle 20%, Elemental Catalyst 15%, Medium Armor 0-14%,

Optional: Nightblade/Templar 10%, Khajiit 12%, Axe 6-12%, Shadow Mundus 11% base

Sets: Sul-Xan's Torment 12%, Senche's Bite 14%, Archer's Mind 8/16%, True-Sworn Fury 4-16%...

Consistent:
1) 250-264% anyone can hit, regardless of Race, Class, or Weapon.
1A) 200-214% for any Malacath user

Optional:
1) 272-286% for a Khajiit Nightblade/Templar
2) 295-309%+ for a Khajiit Nightblade/Templar using
Dual Axes with Shadow Mundus... Way overkill, but presented to show as an example to work from.
1A) 222-236% for a Khajiit Nightblade/Templar using Malacath
2A) 245%-259%+ for the above (2) extreme example using Malacath

Sets:
Can supplement critical damage sets in if wanted for other races and class combinations to make up for the passives Khajiit, Nightblade, and and Templar receive inherently.

With a very coordinated trial team, I'd be excited to see the possibilities with Malacath. It'd be insanely beautiful thing a theory crafter could see... Like when I experienced causing a 118k Gravity Crush synergy with a small group of friends in before throwing that in some sneaky small group Cyrodiil pvp before Harmony was nerfed 😆

EDIT to include Critical Damage Boost sources.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Oh well another cool cosmetic undaunted set oh wait...

Winstonshead

lQrukl wrote: »

Who needs major brittle? 12ppl groups already have 125% critical damage, so they don't need that

Khajiit + Major Brittle + Axes + anything else = 16% from Malacath
(~175% crit damage - 50% ring = same 125% but with free +16% pure damage)
Cant wait new 150k parses
Imagine GS for 20 mins.

With 20% uptime of major brittle? Lol

lQrukl

With 20% uptime of major brittle? Lol

Nazaray.
Someone can support tank with Nunatak, just by using ult with 180 points every ~16-19 seconds, for necro offtank/healer it's not a big problem -> ez 100% uptime

ESO_Nightingale

lQrukl wrote: »

With 20% uptime of major brittle? Lol

Nazaray.
Someone can support tank with Nunatak, just by using ult with 180 points every ~16-19 seconds, for necro offtank/healer it's not a big problem -> ez 100% uptime

yeah nazaray is definitely going to be used with it no doubt. that set is insane.

Excelsus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

With 20% uptime of major brittle? Lol

Nazaray.
Someone can support tank with Nunatak, just by using ult with 180 points every ~16-19 seconds, for necro offtank/healer it's not a big problem -> ez 100% uptime

yeah nazaray is definitely going to be used with it no doubt. that set is insane.

Tbf Nazaray is the new siricha, we gonna be putting that sauce on errythang.

ESO_Nightingale

Excelsus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

With 20% uptime of major brittle? Lol

Nazaray.
Someone can support tank with Nunatak, just by using ult with 180 points every ~16-19 seconds, for necro offtank/healer it's not a big problem -> ez 100% uptime

yeah nazaray is definitely going to be used with it no doubt. that set is insane.

Tbf Nazaray is the new siricha, we gonna be putting that sauce on errythang.

the question is, when is it going to be nerfed?

Sun7dance

Is it acutally known that Nunatak doesn't proc by a frost glyph?