Nunatak is an incredible disappointment 5 years in the making.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine. But the aoe design limits its usage to pve.

My understanding was that Crit damage cap was for damage done. Not taken.

it's in general. at best major brittle could be used in-between major force from warhorns. but when it doesn't work on nuna AND is incredibly inconsistent, it wouldn't work right unless nuna was entirely re-designed or if major brittle was given to icy rage for easier control.

Why not just have Nuna have apply Major Crit immediately?

i don't know. ask ZOS, they're the ones who designed this abomination of a set.

MindOfTheSwarm

Have it apply Major Brittle on Chilled targets. Problem solved. The immobilisation can stay as a bonus effect. Alternatively, have Major Brittle proc after a target has been in the area for 4 seconds. This way it’s not tied to the CC but tied to how long an enemy has remained in the area.

MindOfTheSwarm

Just have it apply Major Brittle after 4 seconds and this alone would make it at least optional. Having Major Brittle tied to its cc effect is silly. As if they have cc immunity it will not proc and given that Icy Rage, Wall and a bunch of other skills Immobilze, it activating even against players is almost non-existent.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Have it apply Major Brittle on Chilled targets. Problem solved. The immobilisation can stay as a bonus effect. Alternatively, have Major Brittle proc after a target has been in the area for 4 seconds. This way it’s not tied to the CC but tied to how long an enemy has remained in the area.

the 4s wait is really bad for trash, pvp and isn't too good for bosses since if the cooldown is long and they need to be moved they won't get it. it's not a great solution. tbh it would be ideal if this set didn't even have major brittle, but instead icy rage or northern storm did.

Troodon80

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

My understanding was that Crit damage cap was for damage done. Not taken.

Slightly off-topic, but to clarify this point in case of confusion: it applies both ways. You can't pass the crit damage cap whether buffs apply to you (e.g. Major Force) or whether the debuffs apply to the enemy (e.g. Elemental Catalyst, Brittle). It's not like healing taken vs. healing done.

silvereyes

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

ESO_Nightingale

silvereyes wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

oh yeah. big time. almost everything about the set really is awful, i like the outfit style though.

silvereyes

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

oh yeah. big time. almost everything about the set really is awful, i like the outfit style though.

It's really sad too. Ever since Warden came out, I've been trying to make a frost DPS work. An entire skill line of frost, how could it not work?

Yet here we are, nearly five years later....

ESO_Nightingale

silvereyes wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

oh yeah. big time. almost everything about the set really is awful, i like the outfit style though.

It's really sad too. Ever since Warden came out, I've been trying to make a frost DPS work. An entire skill line of frost, how could it not work?

Yet here we are, nearly five years later....

I've been trying to get it buffed since 2018. Progress has been made but it's at a grueling pace. It doesn't help that zos made a set like this that no-one asked for. We asked for a frost dps helm. Not whatever the hell this abomination is.

Dagoth_Rac

silvereyes wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

oh yeah. big time. almost everything about the set really is awful, i like the outfit style though.

It's really sad too. Ever since Warden came out, I've been trying to make a frost DPS work. An entire skill line of frost, how could it not work?

Yet here we are, nearly five years later....

I expect that as long as ice staves have a bunch of tanky passives, ZOS will never make a really good frost DPS set. They are just too scared of tanky players doing competitive deeps.

While magicka-based tanking is a great idea on its own, I feel like shoehorning it into Destruction Staff was a bad idea. They should have shoehorned it into sword and board. Maybe a glyph or trait that only applies to shields and inverses resource used or something.

ESO_Nightingale

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

ZOS rea

silvereyes wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

After reading this, I went back up to the video thinking, "it can't be that bad".

I was wrong. It's that bad.

oh yeah. big time. almost everything about the set really is awful, i like the outfit style though.

It's really sad too. Ever since Warden came out, I've been trying to make a frost DPS work. An entire skill line of frost, how could it not work?

Yet here we are, nearly five years later....

I expect that as long as ice staves have a bunch of tanky passives, ZOS will never make a really good frost DPS set. They are just too scared of tanky players doing competitive deeps.

While magicka-based tanking is a great idea on its own, I feel like shoehorning it into Destruction Staff was a bad idea. They should have shoehorned it into sword and board. Maybe a glyph or trait that only applies to shields and inverses resource used or something.

Tbh i don't see a set being a problem whatsoever. but i don't see the ice staff getting any more passive buffs. They did also buff frost reach to be a really solid pure offensive morph, so seeing something like a desperately needed rework to unstable wall of frost wouldn't be impossible either.

Eormenric

I know your influence when it comes to all things frost, @ESO_Nightingale. I agree that Nunatak is lackluster. I disagree that it should be pigeonholed into a dps role.

I would swap your critical chance for maximum health--a relatively neutral stat choice, though tri-stat could also work like with Baron Zaudrus.

Only 2 stacks to apply Major Brittle for 6 seconds leaves no wiggle room for avoiding it. I agree that the snare and immobilization is likely negated in PvP, but you can't have this set be a guarantee Major Brittle for anyone unlucky to be chosen as the target.

I would change your version to Major Brittle for 1 second with each stack, up to 6 stacks. Keep the AoE damage as more reason to escape, but drop the burst application. This way, someone is going to get Major Brittle for at least 1 second, maybe 2, but if they are quick to escape, their survival is rewarded. The Nunatak user still benefits from Major Brittle but for only so many seconds because they failed to trap their opponent with snares or CC. Any role can contribute to trapping the opponent, making it fair game.

Your version is a guaranteed win button right now. That's not balanced.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

I know your influence when it comes to all things frost, @ESO_Nightingale. I agree that Nunatak is lackluster. I disagree that it should be pigeonholed into a dps role.

I would swap your critical chance for maximum health--a relatively neutral stat choice, though tri-stat could also work like with Baron Zaudrus.

Only 2 stacks to apply Major Brittle for 6 seconds leaves no wiggle room for avoiding it. I agree that the snare and immobilization is likely negated in PvP, but you can't have this set be a guarantee Major Brittle for anyone unlucky to be chosen as the target.

I would change your version to Major Brittle for 1 second with each stack, up to 6 stacks. Keep the AoE damage as more reason to escape, but drop the burst application. This way, someone is going to get Major Brittle for at least 1 second, maybe 2, but if they are quick to escape, their survival is rewarded. The Nunatak user still benefits from Major Brittle but for only so many seconds because they failed to trap their opponent with snares or CC. Any role can contribute to trapping the opponent, making it fair game.

Your version is a guaranteed win button right now. That's not balanced.

My idea probably wasn't balanced. Like i said i made it quickly. And it was based on what i want to see. A frost damage dealer monster helmet. At this point i don't care what nunatak turns into. But it's gotta be something better than this. Even if it's for tanking or pvp exclusively, whatever. Atm it doesn't know what it wants and i can't even tell what it's supposed to be.

We need a new frost damage dealer monster helmet that can be as powerful as something like my crown mythic idea. That's why i latched onto the first new frost based monster helmet I've seen in 5 years. Because it should have been that, at the very least my post and the comments here should make that clear to ZOS.

ESO_Nightingale

Troodon80 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

My understanding was that Crit damage cap was for damage done. Not taken.

Slightly off-topic, but to clarify this point in case of confusion: it applies both ways. You can't pass the crit damage cap whether buffs apply to you (e.g. Major Force) or whether the debuffs apply to the enemy (e.g. Elemental Catalyst, Brittle). It's not like healing taken vs. healing done.

yep, and because this is the case, in serious raiding content the best major brittle could do is be used on trash packs and in-between horns to keep crit damage at the cap.

ESO_Nightingale

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Seems like damage should be 5000 and start with a snare to have any use.

If they keep every element that currently exists on the set and buff it i think that'd make it over budgeted, the snare, if it was easier to apply would become toxic in pvp.

LeHarrt91

Eormenric wrote: »

I know your influence when it comes to all things frost, @ESO_Nightingale. I agree that Nunatak is lackluster. I disagree that it should be pigeonholed into a dps role.

I would swap your critical chance for maximum health--a relatively neutral stat choice, though tri-stat could also work like with Baron Zaudrus.

Only 2 stacks to apply Major Brittle for 6 seconds leaves no wiggle room for avoiding it. I agree that the snare and immobilization is likely negated in PvP, but you can't have this set be a guarantee Major Brittle for anyone unlucky to be chosen as the target.

I would change your version to Major Brittle for 1 second with each stack, up to 6 stacks. Keep the AoE damage as more reason to escape, but drop the burst application. This way, someone is going to get Major Brittle for at least 1 second, maybe 2, but if they are quick to escape, their survival is rewarded. The Nunatak user still benefits from Major Brittle but for only so many seconds because they failed to trap their opponent with snares or CC. Any role can contribute to trapping the opponent, making it fair game.

Your version is a guaranteed win button right now. That's not balanced.

having the one piece as a max stat bonus would be fine, whether it be Max Health, Tri Stat, Mag/Stam or Recoveries.

WrathOfInnos

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

LeHarrt91

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

Yeah it would be nice to get some other elemental group buffs.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

I know your influence when it comes to all things frost, @ESO_Nightingale. I agree that Nunatak is lackluster. I disagree that it should be pigeonholed into a dps role.

I would swap your critical chance for maximum health--a relatively neutral stat choice, though tri-stat could also work like with Baron Zaudrus.

Only 2 stacks to apply Major Brittle for 6 seconds leaves no wiggle room for avoiding it. I agree that the snare and immobilization is likely negated in PvP, but you can't have this set be a guarantee Major Brittle for anyone unlucky to be chosen as the target.

I would change your version to Major Brittle for 1 second with each stack, up to 6 stacks. Keep the AoE damage as more reason to escape, but drop the burst application. This way, someone is going to get Major Brittle for at least 1 second, maybe 2, but if they are quick to escape, their survival is rewarded. The Nunatak user still benefits from Major Brittle but for only so many seconds because they failed to trap their opponent with snares or CC. Any role can contribute to trapping the opponent, making it fair game.

Your version is a guaranteed win button right now. That's not balanced.

having the one piece as a max stat bonus would be fine, whether it be Max Health, Tri Stat, Mag/Stam or Recoveries.

mag recovery or max magicka would be pretty nice.

ESO_Nightingale

one additional thing i have to do this pts cycle is test out glacial guardian. so much focus has been on disastertak that i've not tested out frozen watcher: 2 electric boogaloo. i swear, that set is just the same thing but better.

Eormenric

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

The only issue i have with it is that on frost warden we still use bear since it parses higher. But if skinnycheeks' bear idea was done that'd be really solid (one morph can be single barred but the bear does a lot less damage) could use it without worrying much.

Eormenric

And now that I think about it, another issue about asking Nunatak to become equivalent to a PvE set is that someone in development is going to have so much pride and not listen to us. They will see Nunatak as a PvP focused set because that's where it originates and its effect must remain within that scope. Like, I don't think Encratis is making its way into PvP.

Maybe someone can give me some hope otherwise by showing an example where a set clearly fell within one playstyle and was shifted to a different one during PTS. Or if they've seen Encratis in Cyrodiil.

The Nunatak set may very well remain a disappointment, niche except when paired with yet another AoE explosion build for PvP.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

And now that I think about it, another issue about asking Nunatak to become equivalent to a PvE set is that someone in development is going to have so much pride and not listen to us. They will see Nunatak as a PvP focused set because that's where it originates and its effect must remain within that scope. Like, I don't think Encratis is making its way into PvP.

Maybe someone can give me some hope otherwise by showing an example where a set clearly fell within one playstyle and was shifted to a different one during PTS. Or if they've seen Encratis in Cyrodiil.

The Nunatak set may very well remain a disappointment, niche except when paired with yet another AoE explosion build for PvP.

I don't think it'll ever see legitimate use when it requires standing in the small square aoe for 4s. This set and nazaray have been so incredibly conceptually bad as set designs there's really no way to fix them properly without completely changing how they work.

LeHarrt91

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

Yes more sets that buff other elemental types would be nice and making Icy Rage a useful ultimate would be great, might have to remove the immobilize though.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

Yes more sets that buff other elemental types would be nice and making Icy Rage a useful ultimate would be great, might have to remove the immobilize though.

yeah, it's mostly redundant because of wall and would be much better off with major brittle, especially given the cost and competitor's effects.

ESO_Nightingale

START OF WEEK 2

we can see some massive tooltip errors in the new tooltip.

Firstly, after the damage portion is listed it immediately cuts in with the name of the stack mechanic randomly, so it doesn't make any sense

and MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE IS NO LISTED COOLDOWN, IN THE LISTED COOLDOWN SECTION.



i'll test on the pts tonight, but i doubt anything has actually changed with the set other than this new janky tooltip.

divnyi

6s instead of 4s of effect now
edit: disregard that, it was 6s before

ESO_Nightingale

divnyi wrote: »

6s instead of 4s of effect now
edit: disregard that, it was 6s before

i don't think any of the numbers that we can see have changed. it was always a 6s ground aoe that applied a stack that stacks up to 4 times and applies a 4s immob, and then 4s major brittle if that works.