Nunatak is an incredible disappointment 5 years in the making.

ESO_Nightingale

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

START OF WEEK 2

we can see some massive tooltip errors in the new tooltip.

Firstly, after the damage portion is listed it immediately cuts in with the name of the stack mechanic randomly, so it doesn't make any sense

and MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE IS NO LISTED COOLDOWN, IN THE LISTED COOLDOWN SECTION.



i'll test on the pts tonight, but i doubt anything has actually changed with the set other than this new janky tooltip.

OKAY, i just tested it:


Changes are:

nothing. it's the same set but with a worse tooltip lol.

same 15s cooldown, dmg, inability to work on dummies and bosses since they don't gain stacks and can't be immobilised.

it literally just got worse but only because of the tooltip.

Whiskey_JG

[snip]

In response to several comments above, I don't see Nunatak as a pure DPS set. Whilst any dps is welcome, its utility is far more important in helping the group.

As long as the proc condition is tied in to the snare and major brittle cannot be applied to bosses this set will not be usable.

I genuinely don't see the benefit of having major brittle in trash packs, also considering the fact that certain BIG trash enemies cannot be snared anyway. I'm not much of a pvper so i will refrain from commenting in that scenario.

Personally, I would remove the stacks altogether and just apply major brittle instantly. Brittle should not be linked to the snare condition.

[edited for bashing]

ESO_Nightingale

Whiskey_JG wrote: »

[snip]

In response to several comments above, I don't see Nunatak as a pure DPS set. Whilst any dps is welcome, its utility is far more important in helping the group.

As long as the proc condition is tied in to the snare and major brittle cannot be applied to bosses this set will not be usable.

I genuinely don't see the benefit of having major brittle in trash packs, also considering the fact that certain BIG trash enemies cannot be snared anyway. I'm not much of a pvper so i will refrain from commenting in that scenario.

Personally, I would remove the stacks altogether and just apply major brittle instantly. Brittle should not be linked to the snare condition.

i'd redesign it from the ground up to be honest. remove major brittle and put that on a controllable ultimate like icy rage or northern storm.

[edited to remove quote]

emilyhyoyeon

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

I say give nunatak 5% frost damage like encratis

And then give +10% scaling frost damage to winter's revenge like engulfing from DK. And +10% scaling shock damage on one morph of sorcerer's lightning splash

divnyi

^ are you guys forgetting that class skills are available to one class only, and the set is available to everyone?

Whiskey_JG

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

I say give nunatak 5% frost damage like encratis

And then give +10% scaling frost damage to winter's revenge like engulfing from DK. And +10% scaling shock damage on one morph of sorcerer's lightning splash

This is actually a good idea. That change to winter's revenge would also add a reason to make warden Off tanks.

Carbohydrate

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7).

Except nazaray just had it's duration buffed to 25 seconds. So that 7 second major brittle turns into 30+ lol

Necrotech_Master

Carbohydrate wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7).

Except nazaray just had it's duration buffed to 25 seconds. So that 7 second major brittle turns into 30+ lol

that still doesnt help the fact it cant be applied to the enemies that need to be affected by it lol

emilyhyoyeon

divnyi wrote: »

^ are you guys forgetting that class skills are available to one class only, and the set is available to everyone?

I don't know if this was directed at me specifically, but I brought in class skills because engulfing is relevant when we're talking about making the other two destruction elements viable.

We already have a fire monster helm in Encratis, so why not make a frost (and shock) one to complement it, since we have a good contender for frost on PTS right now?
Fire already has a class-specific debuff in DK Engulfing flames, so why not make a frost (warden) and shock (sorc) one to complement that as well?

Solariken

Just make the pool deal frost damage and each tick applies major brittle for 4 seconds. Let's not over-complicate it.

ESO_Nightingale

Solariken wrote: »

Just make the pool deal frost damage and each tick applies major brittle for 4 seconds. Let's not over-complicate it.

That would be infinitely better and people would use it.

Edit: but probably too busted to be balanced creating the opposite problem.

Eormenric

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

I say give nunatak 5% frost damage like encratis

And then give +10% scaling frost damage to winter's revenge like engulfing from DK. And +10% scaling shock damage on one morph of sorcerer's lightning splash

I love where your heart is for 10% shock and frost damage. But that leaves out Templar, Warden, and Necromancer. You could say Warden has the minor toughness (10% health), which would leave Templar to provide 10% magic, and Necromancer to provide 5% max magicka and stamina. I touch on this in my own thread, but that's for discussion there. All I can say is that DK's monopoly on a unique buff was just Major Endurance. I think Engulfing Flames 10% fire damage was meant to replace that. It might not be balanced to give the same to every other class.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

I say give nunatak 5% frost damage like encratis

And then give +10% scaling frost damage to winter's revenge like engulfing from DK. And +10% scaling shock damage on one morph of sorcerer's lightning splash

I love where your heart is for 10% shock and frost damage. But that leaves out Templar, Warden, and Necromancer. You could say Warden has the minor toughness (10% health), which would leave Templar to provide 10% magic, and Necromancer to provide 5% max magicka and stamina. I touch on this in my own thread, but that's for discussion there. All I can say is that DK's monopoly on a unique buff was just Major Endurance. I think Engulfing Flames 10% fire damage was meant to replace that. It might not be balanced to give the same to every other class.

Either every class gets it, or no class should. Because you get what we've had for years. A completely unequal distribution of damage types.

Eormenric

Carbohydrate wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7).

Except nazaray just had it's duration buffed to 25 seconds. So that 7 second major brittle turns into 30+ lol

Actually it only turns a 1 second Major Brittle into a 26 second one. That's why I said it applies Major Brittle for 1 second each second it damages. *taps head* I was thinkin' ahead. There's already sets/abilities that apply each second, so it's not a new concept.

You know, you could also lawl it up over Saxheel and Jorvuld for a 47sec long Major Force at 500 ultimate. Or a 70sec long Major Slayer with an offensive HoF set and Jorvuld. There will always be some combination of sets to make something seem really silly. Yes you sacrifice 2 (5) sets, but with this proposed change, you give up a whole weapon type, ultimate slot, and can't use an ultimate for any other reason. I do think, though, that tanks would have no issue making that "sacrifice"--same as healers wouldn't mind for the former example.

Eormenric

Solariken wrote: »

Just make the pool deal frost damage and each tick applies major brittle for 4 seconds. Let's not over-complicate it.

We're not over-complicating you; you're over-simplifying it.

We are making sure there is a balance between PvP and PvE use. An immediate, undodgeable 4 second Major Brittle would be overpowered. It would have people shifting to crit and impen where either someone gets blown up in 1 second or completely fine--actually not, since impen wouldn't do much with a 20% debuff... Your version would wide out a herd of people in Cyrodiil in <4 seconds.

Every other source of "Apply x debuff for x seconds" can be repeated nearly on CD and that's considered balanced right now: Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane, Affliction, Noble's Conquest, Bani's Torment, etc... The only big difference between application and cooldown is something like Lady Thorn (8s every 20s). How often do you see that set anywhere? I've seen it once. Therefore, Nunatak can't fall into the same trash heap with a 4s every 15s). It's not worth it. This is why we're saying scrap the whole Nunatak-Immob-Major Brittle thing and re-tailor it as a frost Encratis with Major Brittle on Icy Rage.

Why say, "Too complicated guys. Just do this." when you give no thought to the repercussions (read: inevitable complaints) in the future? We really don't need another Dark Convergence here.

ESO_Nightingale

Eormenric wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Just make the pool deal frost damage and each tick applies major brittle for 4 seconds. Let's not over-complicate it.

We're not over-complicating you; you're over-simplifying it.

We are making sure there is a balance between PvP and PvE use. An immediate, undodgeable 4 second Major Brittle would be overpowered. It would have people shifting to crit and impen where either someone gets blown up in 1 second or completely fine--actually not, since impen wouldn't do much with a 20% debuff... Your version would wide out a herd of people in Cyrodiil in <4 seconds.

Every other source of "Apply x debuff for x seconds" can be repeated nearly on CD and that's considered balanced right now: Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane, Affliction, Noble's Conquest, Bani's Torment, etc... The only big difference between application and cooldown is something like Lady Thorn (8s every 20s). How often do you see that set anywhere? I've seen it once. Therefore, Nunatak can't fall into the same trash heap with a 4s every 15s). It's not worth it. This is why we're saying scrap the whole Nunatak-Immob-Major Brittle thing and re-tailor it as a frost Encratis with Major Brittle on Icy Rage.

Why say, "Too complicated guys. Just do this." when you give no thought to the repercussions (read: inevitable complaints) in the future? We really don't need another Dark Convergence here.

The idea would definitely work if the major brittle duration was shorter but applied every second. But that is still probably a bad idea. You're right. Would make it far better for pve but still. But even then major brittle, a snare and damage just isn't a good monster helmet design regardless since it's either hugely powerful or useless because of it's proc conditions. frost encratis is definitely a better idea. Major Brittle should just be on icy rage.

ESO_Nightingale

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Carbohydrate wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7).

Except nazaray just had it's duration buffed to 25 seconds. So that 7 second major brittle turns into 30+ lol

that still doesnt help the fact it cant be applied to the enemies that need to be affected by it lol

Yep. Doesn't matter if it applies major brittle for 4 hours. Trash doesn't matter.

Contraptions

Yeah, I have no idea why they tied the major brittle to immobilize. It's as if they don't want this set to be useful in PVE boss fights at all.

I really hope one day we have an actually good frost dps setup. My magwarden will wait in storage until then. Keep fighting the fight OP.

emilyhyoyeon

Eormenric wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Eormenric wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What if Nunatak ditched Major Brittle entirely, and received a debuff similar to Encratis Behemoth for Frost Damage? Maybe 10-15% more damage taken by Frost abilities with high uptime. Think of it like the Morag Tong set, but only for one uncommon damage type. I'm not sure if it would end up on a Frost DPS build or a support, but it would go a long way toward closing the gap between Fire and Ice DPS in optimized groups.

that would be so much better i'd cry with happiness if it was in, could put major brittle on icy rage instead of that awful and redundant immobilize.

Duuuude! Yes!

ZOS LISTEN UP:

Nunatak = Frost version of Encratis (but 10% instead of 5%, because it's lowly frost damage)

Icy Rage = Applies Major Brittle for 1 seconds to enemies that take damage from this ultimate (therefore, it could last as little as 1 seconds or as many as 7)

This brings frost damage into a really good place and makes everyone happy without being crazy overpowered or never used.

Look, we REALLY need supportive ultimates other than horn (and barrier). A change like this to Icy Rage would really shift things up.

I say give nunatak 5% frost damage like encratis

And then give +10% scaling frost damage to winter's revenge like engulfing from DK. And +10% scaling shock damage on one morph of sorcerer's lightning splash

I love where your heart is for 10% shock and frost damage. But that leaves out Templar, Warden, and Necromancer. You could say Warden has the minor toughness (10% health), which would leave Templar to provide 10% magic, and Necromancer to provide 5% max magicka and stamina. I touch on this in my own thread, but that's for discussion there. All I can say is that DK's monopoly on a unique buff was just Major Endurance. I think Engulfing Flames 10% fire damage was meant to replace that. It might not be balanced to give the same to every other class.

I don't really know why templar, necromancer, and nightblade (not sure why you're mentioning warden) need to not be ''left out'' here. I'm not against them getting buffs added as well but I don't really see the urgency. DK offers a lot more than just engulfing in a way that I don't think warden and sorcerer each getting a reflective elemental buff will substantially break any balance.

I mean that genuinely, I don't really know what the issue with an ''engulfing frost'' or an ''engulfing shock'' is. Necromancers will be useful as long as flesh atronach stays as it is, and they are a very useful class otherwise with minor vuln and protection, major protection, unique damage reduction, empower, strong ult gen, and more. I think templar and nightblade could use a bit more to add to groups.

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

Dagoth_Rac

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis? If seems like even if frost DPS was improved, you are unlikely to have all frost groups. In which case min/max groups will want 1 player to wear Fire Encratis and the rest of group do fire DPS. Or if Frost Encratis was good enough, you would have 1 player in Frost Encratis and rest of group do frost DPS. I guess I am just not a fan of group buff/support sets that only help one kind of damage/build. They always end up pushing groups towards homogeneous DPS builds.

ESO_Nightingale

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis? If seems like even if frost DPS was improved, you are unlikely to have all frost groups. In which case min/max groups will want 1 player to wear Fire Encratis and the rest of group do fire DPS. Or if Frost Encratis was good enough, you would have 1 player in Frost Encratis and rest of group do frost DPS. I guess I am just not a fan of group buff/support sets that only help one kind of damage/build. They always end up pushing groups towards homogeneous DPS builds.

As it stands, in a group pve situation a frost encratis would mean buffing these sources:

Frost Staff Light attacks
Frost touch (and morphs)
Wall of Frost(and morphs)
Impaling Shards(and morphs)
Boneyard(and morphs, also includes grave robber)
Ice Comet
Frost impulse (and morphs)
Ice Storm(and morphs)
Force shock(and morphs, but frost damage part specifically)
Glacial Collosus
Iceheart
Artic Wind(and morphs)
Frost Enchantments
Chilled Status effect

Realistically speaking there's really not too much here that is used for dps hence why so many people have been up in arms about getting a new frost damage skill. Necro and warden have their ground aoes, you have the frost staff light attacks, walls, taunt and reach, along with 1/3 of force shock. Some people use iceheart. Ice Comet isn't a bad morph. If you have a warden tank their polar will do a tiny bit more damage (i guess). Glacial Collosus probably won't be used anymore. Frost pulsar on tanks would do a tiny bit more. And ice storm is incredibly rare. frost enchants aren't used on even frost dps anymore since flame is better, this could actually change with frost encratis but only supports use this as far as i've seen. chilled status effect ticks usually account for 2% of my damage but i run charged. We need more sources of frost damage that aren't subpar.

emilyhyoyeon

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis?

Probably no META group will as long as ancient knowledge remains in its current state and the only elemental buff is the fire one from DK. I don't really think it not becoming the new meta is a reason to not make it a certain way though

ESO_Nightingale

Contraptions wrote: »

Keep fighting the fight OP.

I try.

WrathOfInnos

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis? If seems like even if frost DPS was improved, you are unlikely to have all frost groups. In which case min/max groups will want 1 player to wear Fire Encratis and the rest of group do fire DPS. Or if Frost Encratis was good enough, you would have 1 player in Frost Encratis and rest of group do frost DPS. I guess I am just not a fan of group buff/support sets that only help one kind of damage/build. They always end up pushing groups towards homogeneous DPS builds.

@Dagoth_Rac Depends on the group, but in trials one Brittleden usually does 20-40% of their damage as Frost and 2-3 Magcros 10-15%. That means about 5-10% of group DPS is frost. If the set gave 5% increase that is 0.25-0.5% group DPS and certainly not worth using. I think it would need to be more like a 15% boost to Frost damage (3X Encratis, but with no defensive buff) which would give 0.75-1.5% group DPS. Even at 10% it would be questionable unless a group was stacking Necros and Wardens.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis? If seems like even if frost DPS was improved, you are unlikely to have all frost groups. In which case min/max groups will want 1 player to wear Fire Encratis and the rest of group do fire DPS. Or if Frost Encratis was good enough, you would have 1 player in Frost Encratis and rest of group do frost DPS. I guess I am just not a fan of group buff/support sets that only help one kind of damage/build. They always end up pushing groups towards homogeneous DPS builds.

@Dagoth_Rac Depends on the group, but in trials one Brittleden usually does 20-40% of their damage as Frost and 2-3 Magcros 10-15%. That means about 5-10% of group DPS is frost. If the set gave 5% increase that is 0.25-0.5% group DPS and certainly not worth using. I think it would need to be more like a 15% boost to Frost damage (3X Encratis, but with no defensive buff) which would give 0.75-1.5% group DPS. Even at 10% it would be questionable unless a group was stacking Necros and Wardens.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I don't want to really derail the thread since it's about nunatak specifically. I think they ought to make nunatak the frost version of encratis (and worry about major brittle later).

But would groups want a Frost Encratis? If seems like even if frost DPS was improved, you are unlikely to have all frost groups. In which case min/max groups will want 1 player to wear Fire Encratis and the rest of group do fire DPS. Or if Frost Encratis was good enough, you would have 1 player in Frost Encratis and rest of group do frost DPS. I guess I am just not a fan of group buff/support sets that only help one kind of damage/build. They always end up pushing groups towards homogeneous DPS builds.

@Dagoth_Rac Depends on the group, but in trials one Brittleden usually does 20-40% of their damage as Frost and 2-3 Magcros 10-15%. That means about 5-10% of group DPS is frost. If the set gave 5% increase that is 0.25-0.5% group DPS and certainly not worth using. I think it would need to be more like a 15% boost to Frost damage (3X Encratis, but with no defensive buff) which would give 0.75-1.5% group DPS. Even at 10% it would be questionable unless a group was stacking Necros and Wardens.

would still prove to be more useful than current nunatak that's for damn sure. if not now then in the future.

ESO_Nightingale

I just edited the first page post to remove the suggestion as i no longer believe it is a good idea given the discussion we've had in here recently, it was also slapped together when i usually put a lot of thought into my suggestions. i don't even think it should do major brittle anymore.

Contraptions

They should just make the Major Brittle come first, make the set reward investing into frost. Then the snares and other effects come later. Something like:

When you deal direct Frost damage with a Frost staff equipped, apply Major Brittle to a target for X seconds. Dealing Frost damage to targets with Major Brittle applies a stack of Chilling Bite for W seconds, causing them to emit a frozen area that snares all enemies in the area by 25% and deals Y Frost damage per second. On gaining 4 stacks, all enemies in the area are immobilized for Z seconds. You can only apply Major Brittle once every V seconds.

In PVE, this makes the set useful for both trash and boss fights. The single target Major Brittle debuff is now the main draw to incentivise inclusion of frost staff users/frost damage in groups for boss fights, with additional cleave damage and soft CC added in for trash pulls. While I think some people may see this as a support set instead of a dps set, it's better than nothing. The uptime for Major Brittle can be controlled by changing the set cooldown.

In PVP, this could be something like a ranged harassment set than allows you to snare clumps of tightly grouped players, with a AOE immobilize bomb that goes off after 4 secs if they don't cleanse. Although with Plaguebreak I dunno how people will respond to yet another set that encourages purging.

ESO_Nightingale

Contraptions wrote: »

They should just make the Major Brittle come first, make the set reward investing into frost. Then the snares and other effects come later. Something like:

When you deal direct Frost damage with a Frost staff equipped, apply Major Brittle to a target for X seconds. Dealing Frost damage to targets with Major Brittle applies a stack of Chilling Bite for W seconds, causing them to emit a frozen area that snares all enemies in the area by 25% and deals Y Frost damage per second. On gaining 4 stacks, all enemies in the area are immobilized for Z seconds. You can only apply Major Brittle once every V seconds.

In PVE, this makes the set useful for both trash and boss fights. The single target Major Brittle debuff is now the main draw to incentivise inclusion of frost staff users/frost damage in groups for boss fights, with additional cleave damage and soft CC added in for trash pulls. While I think some people may see this as a support set instead of a dps set, it's better than nothing. The uptime for Major Brittle can be controlled by changing the set cooldown.

In PVP, this could be something like a ranged harassment set than allows you to snare clumps of tightly grouped players, with a AOE immobilize bomb that goes off after 4 secs if they don't cleanse. Although with Plaguebreak I dunno how people will respond to yet another set that encourages purging.

could be good. but even if this becomes the reality, the patch still just feels like:

LeHarrt91

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Contraptions wrote: »

They should just make the Major Brittle come first, make the set reward investing into frost. Then the snares and other effects come later. Something like:

When you deal direct Frost damage with a Frost staff equipped, apply Major Brittle to a target for X seconds. Dealing Frost damage to targets with Major Brittle applies a stack of Chilling Bite for W seconds, causing them to emit a frozen area that snares all enemies in the area by 25% and deals Y Frost damage per second. On gaining 4 stacks, all enemies in the area are immobilized for Z seconds. You can only apply Major Brittle once every V seconds.

In PVE, this makes the set useful for both trash and boss fights. The single target Major Brittle debuff is now the main draw to incentivise inclusion of frost staff users/frost damage in groups for boss fights, with additional cleave damage and soft CC added in for trash pulls. While I think some people may see this as a support set instead of a dps set, it's better than nothing. The uptime for Major Brittle can be controlled by changing the set cooldown.

In PVP, this could be something like a ranged harassment set than allows you to snare clumps of tightly grouped players, with a AOE immobilize bomb that goes off after 4 secs if they don't cleanse. Although with Plaguebreak I dunno how people will respond to yet another set that encourages purging.

could be good. but even if this becomes the reality, the patch still just feels like:

Yes it always seems to be the way, it would be nice to get some new DPS frost sets.

Eormenric

Contraptions wrote: »

They should just make the Major Brittle come first, make the set reward investing into frost. Then the snares and other effects come later. Something like:

When you deal direct Frost damage with a Frost staff equipped, apply Major Brittle to a target for X seconds. Dealing Frost damage to targets with Major Brittle applies a stack of Chilling Bite for W seconds, causing them to emit a frozen area that snares all enemies in the area by 25% and deals Y Frost damage per second. On gaining 4 stacks, all enemies in the area are immobilized for Z seconds. You can only apply Major Brittle once every V seconds.

In PVE, this makes the set useful for both trash and boss fights. The single target Major Brittle debuff is now the main draw to incentivise inclusion of frost staff users/frost damage in groups for boss fights, with additional cleave damage and soft CC added in for trash pulls. While I think some people may see this as a support set instead of a dps set, it's better than nothing. The uptime for Major Brittle can be controlled by changing the set cooldown.

In PVP, this could be something like a ranged harassment set than allows you to snare clumps of tightly grouped players, with a AOE immobilize bomb that goes off after 4 secs if they don't cleanse. Although with Plaguebreak I dunno how people will respond to yet another set that encourages purging.

Your idea is furthest inline with what they originally wanted out of the set--and I like it! The goal of splintering a PvP group while still having a big presence in PvE is brilliant! Though, current convention says it can't require a Frost Staff as that would be a Weapon Set 2.0 (coming soon! Since they already ran through all generic weapon skills...). At first I'd say change it to "When you deal damage with a single target frost attack", hoping that "frost attack" could be considered something different than plain "dealing frost damage". But if creating that new category isn't possible, let Frost Enchants apply Minor Brittle and have the set be this:

When you deal damage with a single target frost attack attempt to apply Minor Brittle, apply a stack of Chilling Bite for 8 seconds which deals 259 frost damage per second to nearby enemies within 8m and apply Major Brittle which increases critical damage taken by 20% to the enemy for 1 second per stack, up to 4 stacks. At 2 stacks, nearby enemies are snared for 50%. At 4 stacks, nearby enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds. The damage scales off the higher of your Maximum Stamina or Maximum Magicka. An enemy within 3m of you receives double stacks per Chilling Bite. An enemy that has reached 4 stacks cannot be inflicted with Chilling Bite for 10 seconds.

This way, it targets Ice Staves (and we'll probably see Frost Asylum Staves), Frost Enchants, Crystallized Slab, and Frozen Device--all things that deserve more use. I wanted melee to be represented as well, allowing this set to be used on Tanks, Dps, or Healers. Due to the expertise necessary to fully utilize this set, a 10 second CD seems appropriate--and per enemy due to the slow build up, but removing the per enemy may also be fine. Thoughts?

If Nunatak does remain holding Major Brittle, Icy Rage still needs to be part of the conversation. Hell, I'd even be okay with Icy Rage "Chilling the Air", causing all damaged enemies to take 4% increased frost damage for 4 seconds, stacking up to 5 times--and remove the immobilize effect.