Nunatak is an incredible disappointment 5 years in the making.

ESO_Nightingale

Nunatak is the first frost based monster helmet set since the introduction of Iceheart back in 2016. Since then there have been many flame and magic damage monster helmets, but none for frost. Frost and Shock based sets had recieved very little love until finally last year @ZOS_Liforce stated that they would be introducing more frost and shock based sets in future patches. ZOS has absolutely kept their word on this front, with the frost based examples including the solid Frostbite set, the controversial Hrothgar's Chill and this patch the new glacial guardian set, which brings us to Nunatak. I was well aware that this boss's set would be coming eventually, and even made a suggestion for it as seen in this post due to my excitement: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/587571/frost-dps-based-set-ideas/p1. I had figured that finally, as it has been so incredibly long since we had recieved a frost based monster helm, that we would receive a new and solid frost based helm when nunatak was finally brought into the game. One that was able to be capitalised on by frost based damage dealers.

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but, alas, it was not to be, for this is what we recieved:

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For such a pretty outfit, Nunatak is awful. Not even in the sense that it's awful as a frost damage dealer set. I quite literally mean in general It does not do anything well.

It wouldn't seem like that makes any sense! Nunatak hosts a new buff completely unique to it, that being the fearsome Major Brittle. This buff is naturally the more powerful version of the frost staff's minor brittle, a huge +20% critical damage taken effect that is applied to enemies. Another source that can, or could, help the group to reach the critical damage cap.

Nunatak also provides a very small frost damage tick along with a stacking snare that immobilises at 4 stacks! so how can it be so bad when it has so many strong effects?

Just look at it in action. Here is the kicker that really kills the set:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn3tTfHYMJA

Immunity to immobilisation of any form means that major brittle will not proc. but not only that, it's easily walked out of by players, not even running which would do the job a lot faster

Here is the set used in a dungeon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udjnYZVoZBQ
This was @Whiskey_JG and i running through part of Veteran Wayrest Sewers 1. for a 4 second duration until the major brittle procs, it's not going to help at all for trash packs in a lot of dungeons, the only benefit you get from it is the small damage tick. Later on in the video, you can see that against a boss like slimecraw, that is immune to immobilisations, major brittle does not proc a single time. So it's useless against bosses and some bigger elite adds. Why would you even bother using this against trial trash packs or even at all when there are so many better options in the first place anyway?

Here are 2 seperate parses from @Whiskey_JG and @Tannus15 respectively, looking at the damage % of nuna, it's damage is not looking good either, but with an uptime and a tooltip like that, that should be expected. a couple of different settups were tried in Whiskey's case, and this was still the highest result that nunatak got.

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What are some other things that could happen to increase it's viability?

1. if the set was made into single target instead of AOE it would likely see use, but the snare remaining as is is incredibly toxic and unfun to fight against. the major brittle effect would be nice for frost dps in pvp to use though.
2. the immobilize proc condition for major brittle means that the major brittle is just genuinely useless unless fighting weak trash mobs that die really fast anyway. it should absolutely be removed. even if this set remains tank focused, this is the biggest problem outside of it's really weak uptime.
3. The set could be entirely redesigned from the ground up, there are some fun ideas i've suggested in a previous thread that could act as inspiration.(https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/587571/frost-dps-based-set-ideas/p1)

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TL:DR

Nunatak has several problems which will be listed

1. The Immobilise is the proc condition for the major brittle meaning it doesn't work on powerful enemies like bosses. This has been changed to instead proc from damage ticks instead as of week 4
2. The Major Brittle proc condition takes too long
3. The Area of Effect animation is genuinely awful to look at and doesn't even look completed
4. The set's Area of Effect stacking snare design makes it useless in pvp even though it is an IC set.
5. The damage is pitiful and but also it's only decent quality
6. the 1pc armor bonus doesn't do anything for dps.
7. The Major Brittle uptime is a bit too low even if everything does manage to proc correctly
8. As of Week 2 the tooltip does not list the cooldown of the proc dispite having the line for it. It also does not make sense after it talks about dealing damage since it immediately cuts in with the proc name. -This has been fully fixed as of week 4.

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Closing Remarks

Zenimax, it's taken 5 years to get a new frost monster helm, and while you have shown that you are indeed creating more frost and shock sets, some have definitely not hit the mark. Nunatak is absolutely one of the biggest examples i can think of in recent memory. Is @ZOS_Liforce or @ZOS_Gilliam (or any set team member) able to confirm their intentions with this set? As it seems like it is currently trying to do too many things at once. Is it supposed to be a frost dps monster helm like the frost dps community has been hoping for? Or is it supposed to be mostly tank based? The frost dps community has been holding out for a new and powerful frost dps based helmet and/or mythic item(since greymoor) that can help them stand out from a normal damage dealer for years now. Nunatak definitely is not it.

Trixterion

Just a friendly reminder: you can have 100% uptime on Major Brittle with the most op set Right Now on week one in AoE(you cannotdo this solo though), the set was clearly made as a support set for static fight, but your points are still valid

Trixterion

Besides, I cannot imagine a monster set that will outperform Master's Staves with frost spammable

ESO_Nightingale

Trixterion wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder: you can have 100% uptime on Major Brittle with the most op set Right Now on week one in AoE(you cannotdo this solo though), the set was clearly made as a support set for static fight, but your points are still valid

Balance doesn't generally matter anymore if that goes live anyway.

Whiskey_JG

Trixterion wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder: you can have 100% uptime on Major Brittle with the most op set Right Now on week one in AoE(you cannotdo this solo though), the set was clearly made as a support set for static fight, but your points are still valid

100% uptimes doesnt matter if you can only use it on trash

Whiskey_JG

I would say the set is a good start but needs more work to make it usable.

While testing the set with @ESO_Nightingale certain issues became really apparent.

1) since it takes 4 stacks to apply the immobilize, you can literally walk out of it . the snare wont get you in time. And if it does get you, a simple roll dodge solves the problem. So for pvp purposes the immobilize condition is useless.

2) The immobilize condition makes the set very niche, since you can only use it on trashpacks (and not all of them). Furthermore since the major brittle takes some time to build up, this set assumes that your trash fight will last longer than 6 seconds. In good optimized groups trash doesn't last long so you're not going to benefit much from major brittle.

3) After testing it out on a warden it was also clear that its damage output was lacking. The dps should at equal Iceheart.

4) If this was intended as support on an off-tank/healer, then stacking mechanism should be removed and major brittle applied instantly. The set already has a long cooldown so the stacking feels unnecessary.

So IMO,

-remove immobilze so it can be used on bosses
-reduce or remove stacks needed to apply major brittle
-aoe could use some more dps (even with frostbite the dps less than 2%)
-make 1pc into Crit chance (for dps) OR Mag recovery (for tanks/healers)
-aoe effect could be nicer...but im nitpicking

divnyi

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

ESO_Nightingale

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine. But the aoe design limits its usage to pve.

divnyi

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

ESO_Nightingale

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

Not when the uptime is so short. Zos have also not declared their intentions with this set. If the immobilize condition is intentional for pvp, then why is it an aoe that has to tick 4 times? The set design is so baffling that i can't tell what it really aims to achieve.

divnyi

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

Not when the uptime is so short.

You can wear it on many players and coordinate. Frost damage is very ez trigger.

ESO_Nightingale

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

Not when the uptime is so short.

You can wear it on many players and coordinate. Frost damage is very ez trigger.

In it's current state that means having 4 members use the set which seems like a loss if you want to have near perfect uptime. And not only that, but it's also awkward since it's 4 seconds until the proc happens. So you'll need to coordinate that. Doesn't seem worth. Also the immob condition would need to go.

redspecter23

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

Not when the uptime is so short.

You can wear it on many players and coordinate. Frost damage is very ez trigger.

In it's current state that means having 4 members use the set which seems like a loss if you want to have near perfect uptime. And not only that, but it's also awkward since it's 4 seconds until the proc happens. So you'll need to coordinate that. Doesn't seem worth. Also the immob condition would need to go.

You'd be surprised what sweaty groups will do for 100% uptime on major brittle.

Thecompton73

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

ESO_Nightingale

redspecter23 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

Not when the uptime is so short.

You can wear it on many players and coordinate. Frost damage is very ez trigger.

In it's current state that means having 4 members use the set which seems like a loss if you want to have near perfect uptime. And not only that, but it's also awkward since it's 4 seconds until the proc happens. So you'll need to coordinate that. Doesn't seem worth. Also the immob condition would need to go.

You'd be surprised what sweaty groups will do for 100% uptime on major brittle.

I wouldn't really be surprised. I also don't think it's really a problem if they have to sacrifice so many 2 pc slots on multiple people and then have to coordinate it from there. But that's not going to happen in it's current state as the set has no idea what it wants to do or what content its even for. So we'll see if zos does.

ESO_Nightingale

Thecompton73 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

XomRhoK wrote: »

Such a horrible and cheap proc animation. Like it were made by student from built in presets of the engine.

It really does look awful.

Nah, it just needs a disco ball to appear up above and some appropriate music to play when it procs.

Basically. Some clown music would fit it rather well given it's current state.

Tannus15

divnyi wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

I don't think they intended this to work in PvE. You would be able to stack way too much crit dmg via support characters.

4s trigger for PvP is disturbing. Maybe same trigger, but this area is around the caster? This would make it PvP-viable instantly.

The existance of the crit cap makes the debuff no longer too scary to balance. It's fine.

On the contrary, it is exactly the reason not to allow more sources of support crit dmg in PvE.

Minor+Major force = +30%
Minor+Major brittle = +30%

150+60 = 210, out of 225% cap. Means everyone will sit at the cap effortlessly.

with 4 seconds uptime and 11 seconds downtime and with no way to control when it procs it's never going to be worth running on more than 1 character for major brittle, and it's not worth being 20% under the crit damage cap just so you can get 24% at the cap. This means at best major brittle will be used to fill gaps between major force uptime, but with sets like sax-heel major force is pretty easy to maintain

most groups that want to sit effortlessly at cap will just run EC for significantly easier uptimes.

Araneae6537

What IS that visual even??? Some generic frost effect would be infinitely better than those weird disco lights! O.o I would rather it be generally less powerful (perhaps minor instead of major brittle?) and not be completely useless both in boss fights and PvP — in other words, completely useless.

ESO_Nightingale

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What IS that visual even??? Some generic frost effect would be infinitely better than those weird disco lights! O.o I would rather it be generally less powerful (perhaps minor instead of major brittle?) and not be completely useless both in boss fights and PvP — in other words, completely useless.

Minor brittle is unique to ice staves. I don't want to take that away since it'd probably half-kill frost dps viability. But yeah, the visual effect is horrid.

Dragonredux

I want to say being immoblize immune is probably an oversight or bug but knowing ZoS track record...probably not.

I don't understand the point of this set at current. Regular trash die before the effect really shines. Elite Adds and Bosses are immune to it which is really the only reason to use it. Useless in PvP because people just walk out of it assuming they don't use an immovable pot.

The effect looks like someone copy and pasted a .png image ona 4x4 grid.

Also it's another frost tank set. Can we please have an actual frost damage/proc set that's not just x frost damage is stronger now.

Zekka

Yeah, I agree it's really bad.
I don't even know what ZOS tried to do with it, a frost dps set for PvE? with an armor 1st line and very weak damage output, a weird PvE tank support set? with a slow debuff application and low uptime, a PvP set? with again a very low damage output and very easily avoidable proc.
Also, holy [snip] the visuals look bad. Like babby's first attempt at making something with Unity's particle system.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ESO_Nightingale

Dragonredux wrote: »

I want to say being immoblize immune is probably an oversight or bug but knowing ZoS track record...probably not.

I don't understand the point of this set at current. Regular trash die before the effect really shines. Elite Adds and Bosses are immune to it which is really the only reason to use it. Useless in PvP because people just walk out of it assuming they don't use an immovable pot.

The effect looks like someone copy and pasted a .png image ona 4x4 grid.

Also it's another frost tank set. Can we please have an actual frost damage/proc set that's not just x frost damage is stronger now.

i hope that they announce their plans for future frost dps sets. a frost damage mythic would be huge. but if they keep making directionless disasters like nuna i have no hope, it's not like there aren't set ideas out there to capitalize on for niche playstyles that need the support.

LeHarrt91

Yes I am disappointed by this set.

It would be nice for this set to get a frost damage buff, i know that they intend it to be a support/ tank set but Frost Damage needs another good option we only have Iceheart.
In terms of this version of the set, im quite surprised they let it go to PTS like that. needs a lot of work.
Buff the damage and improve the usage of the set.

Tannus15

honestly it looks like they don't know what they want to do with set so they are doing everything really really badly.

it's not a dps set with 1pc armour and low dps
it's not a support set when it's primary debuff won't proc on bosses
it's not a pvp set when it has a large, very obvious aoe that you can easily move out of.

so what is it meant to be? i can't work it out.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

honestly it looks like they don't know what they want to do with set so they are doing everything really really badly.

it's not a dps set with 1pc armour and low dps
it's not a support set when it's primary debuff won't proc on bosses
it's not a pvp set when it has a large, very obvious aoe that you can easily move out of.

so what is it meant to be? i can't work it out.

same, it's absolutely baffling to me that i can't work out what it's trying to do because it's so genuinely bad at the several things it does do.

ESO_Nightingale

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Yes I am disappointed by this set.

It would be nice for this set to get a frost damage buff, i know that they intend it to be a support/ tank set but Frost Damage needs another good option we only have Iceheart.
In terms of this version of the set, im quite surprised they let it go to PTS like that. needs a lot of work.
Buff the damage and improve the usage of the set.

the funny thing is that we don't even know if it was intended to be a support/tank set due to the crit cap's relation with major brittle with the damage and snare, it could probably be intended for frost based dps in pvp. but it could also be so many other things at the same time with the kicker being that it has catastrophically bad design flaws that kill it in both pve and pvp.

MashmalloMan

Apreciate the write up, completely agree. The physical/shock monster set is also incredibly disapointing, but at least we have Stormfist and Ilambris to an extent.... but ...

....

....

....


[snip] is with that visual. Looks like someone copy pasted a static image and is actively sliding it out from the middle as you play. Sheesh.

[edited for profanity bypass]

ESO_Nightingale

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Apreciate the write up, completely agree. The physical/shock monster set is also incredibly disapointing, but at least we have Stormfist and Ilambris to an extent.... but ...

....

....

....


[snip] is with that visual. Looks like someone copy pasted a static image and is actively sliding it out from the middle as you play. Sheesh.

the only time i've spent on the pts so far was testing out nuna so i don't quite know how bad most other sets are except for storm cursed since that's apparently even worse dps than nuna according to a parse tannus gave. in regards to the nuna visual it is incredibly confusing to me how this was even included in week 1 as this looks like a genuine placeholder. i can probably make particles look like this in unity in a couple of minutes.

[edited to remove quote]

tomofhyrule

I know most of the IC Monster helms have been more geared towards PvP, but the idea of being able to access Major Brittle (or any Brittle without a frost staff) was enticing for PvE supports.

...but do bosses not get hit by Brittle here? The way I read the tooltip, it would apply Brittle and immo after four seconds, so a boss should be immune to immo but still get hit by the Brittle debuff. If it's not going, that sounds like a major flaw. But based on those parses, I guess not.

Welp, guess that's one set I don't need to deal with unless it gets fixed.

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Apreciate the write up, completely agree. The physical/shock monster set is also incredibly disapointing, but at least we have Stormfist and Ilambris to an extent.... but ...

....

....

....


[snip] is with that visual. Looks like someone copy pasted a static image and is actively sliding it out from the middle as you play. Sheesh.

the only time i've spent on the pts so far was testing out nuna so i don't quite know how bad most other sets are except for storm cursed since that's apparently even worse dps than nuna according to a parse tannus gave. in regards to the nuna visual it is incredibly confusing to me how this was even included in week 1 as this looks like a genuine placeholder. i can probably make particles look like this in unity in a couple of minutes.

So true.. [snip] This is real bad.

The new monster set is clearly designed for utility first, like this set, for the 10% cost reduction which leaves the aoe dot doing about 1-1.5k combined dps while it's up. Feels pretty pointless, the damage is just there to proc anything else that has a "damage done" condition. It's like chucking pennies at a millionaire.

The shock 5 piece with 15%? Yeah, super bad too. In theory, the % chance and no CD implies that you're meant to go ALL in on shock damage to get insane dps out of it.. in reality. It barely scratched 3-4k DPS in my tests, and thats with the rest of my damage gutted because I had every crappy shock skill slotted. Shame. Until shock staves are addressed, shock sorcs won't really be a thing.

[edited for conspiracy theory & to remove quote]

ESO_Nightingale

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Apreciate the write up, completely agree. The physical/shock monster set is also incredibly disapointing, but at least we have Stormfist and Ilambris to an extent.... but ...

....

....

....


[snip] is with that visual. Looks like someone copy pasted a static image and is actively sliding it out from the middle as you play. Sheesh.

the only time i've spent on the pts so far was testing out nuna so i don't quite know how bad most other sets are except for storm cursed since that's apparently even worse dps than nuna according to a parse tannus gave. in regards to the nuna visual it is incredibly confusing to me how this was even included in week 1 as this looks like a genuine placeholder. i can probably make particles look like this in unity in a couple of minutes.

So true.. [snip] This is real bad.

The new monster set is clearly designed for utility first, like this set, for the 10% cost reduction which leaves the aoe dot doing about 1-1.5k combined dps while it's up. Feels pretty pointless, the damage is just there to proc anything else that has a "damage done" condition. It's like chucking pennies at a millionaire.

The shock 5 piece with 15%? Yeah, super bad too. In theory, the % chance and no CD implies that you're meant to go ALL in on shock damage to get insane dps out of it.. in reality. It barely scratched 3-4k DPS in my tests, and thats with the rest of my damage gutted because I had every crappy shock skill slotted. Shame. Until shock staves are addressed, shock sorcs won't really be a thing.

nah don't assume they were let go. it's more than likely 1 of 2 things, 1, they forgot to update/haven't finished the visual effects and will or 2, think that this is an acceptable effect to publish. my money is on the former since i've never seen any effect that looks this bad in the live game.

[edited to remove quote]