PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

deleted221106-002999

peacenote wrote: »

...

Kind of a small thing that I'm curious about. If I recall correctly it used to be a nice little benefit that if your character had never beaten a delve before, the boss would appear right away, the first time you walked up - even if it had just been killed. Does this still work or was that tracked through achievements too? Anyone try that?....

It was one of the first broken things I and others noticed; you'll wait 5+ minutes on a new character for the delve boss to spawn if any character has previously completed it and logged in (edit: i.e. the account-wide acheivement has been marked as done).

The only reason to visit a delve post update is for the skyshard - but that's kind of broken, too, because you can no longer see from the map which delves your character has not done. The skyshard achievements are account-wide so it's not like you can just check that list to see which ones in a zone a character might need either - you know, like we've been able to do with convenient ease for years.

Kelinmiriel

All of you on PC who love your characters, PLEASE check this out before U33 goes live!

You can download the addon, sign on to your characters, upload their info to the website, and they will stay archived there.

Just don't sign on to them after U33 goes live with the addon active (or if you do, don't re-upload the data). The addon author is aware of the U33 changes and has tested it, but hasn't changed it, so it would overwrite character achievements with account-wide ones (from the game, of course) if you do.

[snip]
[edited for advertising]

Ugh_Tech

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

All of you on PC who love your characters, PLEASE check this out before U33 goes live!

You can download the addon, sign on to your characters, upload their info to the website, and they will stay archived there.

Just don't sign on to them after U33 goes live with the addon active (or if you do, don't re-upload the data). The addon author is aware of the U33 changes and has tested it, but hasn't changed it, so it would overwrite character achievements with account-wide ones (from the game, of course) if you do.

[snip]
[edited for advertising]

Thanks for highlighting this, I stumbled over that site myself a few days ago - but I haven't found any information so far if that data will be preserved after U33 even if I don't use the addon after the release.
If that is adapted at any time, the data will be lost anyway (except you keep the export files and/or safe the web-documents displaying your char's data).

I'm still wondering if it makes any sense to use this for some kind of nostalgic feelings or if it just increases the pain, anger and dispair I feel over this Update.

Varana

Was going to post this as well.

I have contacted the author, and this is what he said (translated from German):

"I have tested the addon on the PTS.

Because the addon is exporting achievements per character, there is an automatic archive effect. ... When processing the data, (the site) checks whether an achievement already exists in the database for this character. If yes, nothing happens and the entry is simply skipped. This would be good for alts because data from before the patch is kept."

This means that the site can be used to store the old data even going forward because it simply skips updating the achievement when a character already has it, so it doesn't overwrite it with the new account-wide ones.
.
.
.
So what I'll do immediately before the patch drops, is the following:
Create the database file from the addon and make a backup.
Upload the data for all my characters to the site.
Delete the addon and its data, and reinstall it.
After the patch drops, upload a test character. If the old achievement data is indeed retained, I'll go through the whole process and upload all data.
If it's not retained for some reason, I'll delete the characters in the database and re-upload them from my backup. And stop using the addon.

HeroOfNone

Account wide achievements is a mixed bag for me.

I like to track things like when I first clear a handmade achievement or a trial achievement. But I hate having to do the same content over and over just to get undaunted up or to get certain rewards. I imagine there will be some addons to track things they are removing, but it won't be the same.

On the positive side the new undaunted experience boost will be easier to level up for characters that still need to finish up skill point quests and when farming keys.

I think it would have been better to give many of the character rewards tied to achiements to all characters and then disassociate certain level up skills with alternative routes like we have for the undaunted line.

Ugh_Tech

Varana wrote: »

Was going to post this as well.

I have contacted the author, and this is what he said (translated from German):

Great! Maybe it's worth being posted in the German thread aswell? Can't hurt to spread the news.

alberichtano

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

So that's it?

Update 33 PTS is done, and this is how its going live with maybe some untested changes?

Over a week and still total silence from ZoS.
Even if they can actually fix ALL thats wrong with AwA, I am not playing as much just because of the lost respect and faith I had in ZoS.
2500+ responses, 84 pages in less than 5 weeks, and you cant talk to us?
Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

I have already found myself not wanting to log in and UD isn't even live yet.
The AwA in it's current form is bad enough, but this eternal silence is what is killing my love of TES.

Made me think of Father Stack. (at 1:50-ish)

https://youtu.be/ZeqhsOlCDtA?t=114

Runefang

I love this change as an end-game PvEer, I can play the meta class each patch but not worry that my main misses out on achievements just because it's a non-meta class. One of the best changes ever.

tmbrinks

As an end-game PvEer, I hate this change. "meta" in this game literally only matters if you are score-pushing (which is not an achievement). You can get all achievements on all classes (short of maybe Planesbreaker). I mean I got my True Genius (arguably the hardest 4 man trifecta title), on a Templar Tank (as a non-tank main), DEFINITELY not "meta" (in the patch it was released, so no "power creep" carrying either)

If we're removing all character individualization and homogenizing our entire accounts to accommodate the meta-chasing crowd...

All that could be accommodated by an account overview for those players, not taking away from many others

heaven13

tmbrinks wrote: »

As an end-game PvEer, I hate this change. "meta" in this game literally only matters if you are score-pushing (which is not an achievement). You can get all achievements on all classes (short of maybe Planesbreaker). I mean I got my True Genius (arguably the hardest 4 man trifecta title), on a Templar Tank (as a non-tank main), DEFINITELY not "meta" (in the patch it was released, so no "power creep" carrying either)

If we're removing all character individualization and homogenizing our entire accounts to accommodate the meta-chasing crowd...

All that could be accommodated by an account overview for those players, not taking away from many others

Wish I could give 100 agrees to this.

deleted221106-002999

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

kringled_1

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

ArchangelIsraphel

tmbrinks wrote: »

As an end-game PvEer, I hate this change. "meta" in this game literally only matters if you are score-pushing (which is not an achievement). You can get all achievements on all classes (short of maybe Planesbreaker). I mean I got my True Genius (arguably the hardest 4 man trifecta title), on a Templar Tank (as a non-tank main), DEFINITELY not "meta" (in the patch it was released, so no "power creep" carrying either)

If we're removing all character individualization and homogenizing our entire accounts to accommodate the meta-chasing crowd...

All that could be accommodated by an account overview for those players, not taking away from many others

Agreed 100%

What makes this even worse is the feeling that ZOS assumes this is the way everyone plays, or that we can be assimilated into playing this way.

I feel like they've lost their vision for this game. They're utterly blind to the actual magic of what it once offered. People were using the game not just as a game, but as an artistic tool. But it feels as though the company is turning it into something quite soulless.

As many before me have said, it's the blindness, and the silence, and the lack of effort put into fixing anything that hurts the most at this point.

SilverBride

kringled_1 wrote: »

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

How can skyshards be done this way when they are one way we earn skill points?

Jaraal

It’s interesting that they are doing an all day patch on the test server this Wednesday, after the “final” patch has already been released. Of course, they aren’t telling us why…. so we can only speculate. Could it possibly be that they are setting aside a day to “zerg” all these new bugs before U33 goes live? If not, what else could it be? Do we dare hope that they finally realized what a nightmare this will be for many, and are actually going to hold off on the implementation?

TPishek

Jaraal wrote: »

It’s interesting that they are doing an all day patch on the test server this Wednesday, after the “final” patch has already been released. Of course, they aren’t telling us why…. so we can only speculate. Could it possibly be that they are setting aside a day to “zerg” all these new bugs before U33 goes live? If not, what else could it be? Do we dare hope that they finally realized what a nightmare this will be for many, and are actually going to hold off on the implementation?

Pretty sure they do this reset maintenance every single update.

Jaraal

TPishek wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It’s interesting that they are doing an all day patch on the test server this Wednesday, after the “final” patch has already been released. Of course, they aren’t telling us why…. so we can only speculate. Could it possibly be that they are setting aside a day to “zerg” all these new bugs before U33 goes live? If not, what else could it be? Do we dare hope that they finally realized what a nightmare this will be for many, and are actually going to hold off on the implementation?

Pretty sure they do this reset maintenance every single update.

Not in my experience.

Dojohoda

Remember, they are doing this for the game's future which, at this moment in time, seems a bit ironic to me. They are taking one of the large data footprints and pruning it down a lot. It is a data footprint that benefits our gameplay; it is one that we like very much and causes our zone maps to make sense. I guess it could have been worse. Hopefully they are already pruning the massive amount of messages. I'm glad they didn't decide to reduce our inventory by 50%. Imagine an inventory nerf? Maybe the game will run better? I hope so.

I like this game and appreciate those who do the work on it. That said, I might play less because I might not know what to do. AWA will make a short to-do list for me and I am not interested in everything on that list.

Now fix Cyrodiil and BG queue and I will always have something in this game to do.

=== from Q&A ===

Q: Why switch to Account Wide Achievements?

A: We decided to move to Account Wide Achievements for two main reasons. First, this has been a requested feature by players for years and is a nice quality of life improvement. It gives players a lot more freedom to explore the world on any character, without the fear of missing out on getting achievements or making incremental progress on their “main” character. Second, as mentioned in the intro, this change will result long term maintainable database stability and performance. By reducing the amount of data we have to store, the database doesn’t have to work as hard so the time it takes to search, load and save data will be sped up, leading to a more consistent user experience as the years go by and more data is added to the database.

"As ESO continues to grow and evolve, we need to be proactive and find ways to ensure the data will always be available in real time."

"As noted above, one of the big reasons why we decided to move to Account Wide Achievements is the performance gains we get on the backend."

alberichtano

SilverBride wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

How can skyshards be done this way when they are one way we earn skill points?

This way, if that problem is real, you will find it much easier to just buy the skyshards with crowns.

ezmaye

Might be a silly question, but does this apply to all characters on your account, even if you have some NA characters and EU characters?

So essentially any achievements I have on my NA character will also be accessible by my EU character?

silvereyes

ezmaye wrote: »

Might be a silly question, but does this apply to all characters on your account, even if you have some NA characters and EU characters?

So essentially any achievements I have on my NA character will also be accessible by my EU character?

No. The achievements aren’t really account wide in that sense. They are still server specific. NA and EU are independent.

WiseSky

Can we please stop this Idea, At least give use the Chance to MUTE NPCS Related to ACHIVEMENTS!!!!

Hymzir

So that's it then... Silence of ZOS is deafening.

What a surprise. Well, not really, no.

Once this thing goes live, and the majority of players (who do not hang around the forums) get a rude awakening with the changes, there will be a huge public outcry of "WHY?!?!?! THIS SUCKS!!! THIS IS REALLY BAD!!!!!" Probably a lot of bug reports on how "the world is broken" from people who do not realize it is workign as intended. I'm sure we will get the usual platitudes on how ZOS will work hard to improve communication, and that they do listen to us and that our feedback matters. They wont of course. They never do. Nothing we say matters. It never does.

Oh well, whatever...

The fact that character identity and history is lost, due to the way world interactions are tied to achievements and not the character itself, means this game loses even the last vestige of being a roleplaying game, and with that it loses my interest in continuing playing it. For some people it might not matter, but for me it is an integral quality.

I do not care about achievements, and it saddens me that we are losing narrative cohesion for the sake of some supposed convenience for an arbitrary list of artificial "things to do." And what is it that we are supposed to receive in exchange for this loss? Some possible theoretical performance boost that even ZOS can't really quantify?

Right... I'll just say it straight up then: This change is stupid, and the way it is implemented is bad. But ZOS will, as they always do, keep pushing ahead regardless of the the consequences.

However, for me at least, the consequences of this change is that one bridge too far. So be it. It was a decent enough a ride while it lasted, but looks like it's time to pick up something else to while away the hours, between bouts of modding. Luckily for me, Elden Ring just released, and is looking mighty fine, and I've been seriously thinking of picking that thing up. Should give me plenty of entertainment to tide me over 'till Starfield is released. Was planning on spending the summer months on High Isles, but guess not.

I can't say how many others are in a similar situation, nor how many will drop the game due to these changes. For me at least, this change is a deal breaker. IF ZOS fixes this in the future I might pick ESO up again, or not. Since once you stop playing actively, the chances of returning go down as new games offering fresh content get released. I suppose I might check-in from time to time, maybe log on during a free-period to do some new story content or something. In any case, I just can't continue playing this in any sort of active capacity with this change.

Guess I'll do some story content this weekend, finish up couple of zones that I never got around to, and generally tidy up some loose end, before I park this thing into slumber mode for good. One last bout of ESO for the road.

And no, you can't have my stuff. Go get your own. I'm not a charity.

old_scopie1945

kringled_1 wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

Or buy them in the Crown Store. The plan is coming together. 😒

Lord_Ninka

Removing the ability to track earned achievements per character would be really bad.

Account wide achievements is great if and only if we can still keep track of which characters have earned what.

McTaterskins

kind_hero wrote: »

what has been proven to work.

But it hasn't though...

Seravi

So after reading tons of posts, etc I want to make sure I understand AWA. If I have a character that hasn't completed EP zone quests and I have one that has, after AWA both show a completed EP Zone and maps? Even though the map shows completed for the one that hasn't completed EP I can still do all the quests in that zone?

It seems silly to lock us out of places we haven't been with other characters. Auto completing the map is a bad idea as well cause I am not sure how one would keep track of all the quests at that point trying to complete a zone they haven't been in with a different character.

Zezin

Seravi wrote: »

So after reading tons of posts, etc I want to make sure I understand AWA. If I have a character that hasn't completed EP zone quests and I have one that has, after AWA both show a completed EP Zone and maps? Even though the map shows completed for the one that hasn't completed EP I can still do all the quests in that zone?

It seems silly to lock us out of places we haven't been with other characters. Auto completing the map is a bad idea as well cause I am not sure how one would keep track of all the quests at that point trying to complete a zone they haven't been in with a different character.

You can still do the quests even though the zone guide will say some things are completed, I don't remember if the main story tracker shows as completed or not though.

SilverBride

Lord_Ninka wrote: »

Removing the ability to track earned achievements per character would be really bad.

Account wide achievements is great if and only if we can still keep track of which characters have earned what.

Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening. Other games that have account wide achievements track both, but our individual characters histories are just being wiped out.

They say that "It gives players a lot more freedom to explore the world on any character, without the fear of missing out on getting achievements or making incremental progress on their “main” character." But what if you don't have a main? What if all your characters are all individuals, each as important as the other? What about being able to play the complete game on them? What about our freedom to explore the world the way we like to play?

This change completely destroys the only way I play and I am devastated.

AlnilamE

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

kringled_1 wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

I think you can see which skyshards you are missing on a character if you go into the actual Zone Guide (not the summary on the map) and hover over the skyshard count. But it's a couple more steps than you need to take now.

alberichtano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

How can skyshards be done this way when they are one way we earn skill points?

This way, if that problem is real, you will find it much easier to just buy the skyshards with crowns.

secondrowforward wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Skyshards still need to be character specific.

They, too, exist in a superposition of states where the achievement is flagged as done but the zone guide says 'x of y' completed with no indication which ones any given character still has to do. It's just stupid.

Wait...you haven't done this because with the 'crack open a walnut with a sledgehammer' approach you'd have to wipe out ALL current skyshard progression, just like you did with museum quests, meaning characters who'd already completed them would have to redo them.

What a broken mess.

Ugh. So if you don't already have all the skyshards in a zone on one character but do have them all overall, all you can do is wander the entire map until you find one that shows up in the native UI because you got close enough. How utterly frustrating/tedious.

Or buy them in the Crown Store. The plan is coming together. 😒

Actually, when I tried this when NA characters were on PTS, I couldn't buy any skyshards because the crown store checks if your character has the achievement. And now ALL characters have the achievement. So unless they fixed this since they put EU characters up, nobody can buy skyshards with crowns.