PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Jaraal

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

The bigger question would be, if they're still tracking individual character achievements, why are they choosing to hide the achievements from us going forward? And where's the data savings, if the data is still working behind the scenes?

Tandor

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Well said. I know there are people who like to play games where it's "player" and not "character" based, but ESO hasn't been that game...

Well maybe it will be now

Character development has been the main focus of the Elder Scrolls franchise since the beginning. You were always able to start a new character and play as if you were visiting Tamriel for the first time. But this current development team will be the first to alter the formula. TES is forever losing some of it's magic, and a lot of it's shine. Story is being sacrificed for coding convenience. It would have been unfortunate, if the story was conglomerated at game launch. But it's unconscionable that we purchased the game expecting one thing and enjoying the ability to start anew all over again as we chose, but are now having that taken away.

It's also being sacrificed for the possibility of performance improvements which those who suffer performance issues say never materialise anyway.

They did say in the Q&A that there was a possibility of performance improvements, but they said the main reason for doing it was so they could release more content to sell us. Apparently there's a data cap, and some old data has to be deleted to make room for the new data.

That would suggest that in a year's time they'll need to remove something else from the game to make way for the 2023 Chapter. What will that be? PvP? Guild trading? Removal of the extra character slots we've paid for because with the armoury and account-wide achievements you'll only need one character? It's an absurd proposition, improved database handling and hardware are the solution to such issues, not adding to the game with one hand and taking away from the game with the other.

silvereyes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

So, while I was working on my addon to make zone completion work like it does on live, I noticed that icons on the map weren't flipping from black to white when completed. This is with all addons turned off:


You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character.

This seems like a bug to me, and it makes me wonder if the whole thing is working as intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_Kevin, could we please get confirmation one way or another on if dolmens, delves and world boss tracking is working as intended on maps? I would much prefer to not waste hours and hours on an addon that will be rendered obsolete in the coming weeks by an official fix.

I finally got home and went to try it, but I can't replicate this.

Thanks for testing. I was seeing it consistently a couple days ago, and once today after disabling my addons and then doing a /reloadui, but after logging out with addons disabled and logging back in, now I can't reproduce.

Not sure if they changed something on the server, or if this was just some weird byproduct of my addon + /reloadui. When I first reported the strangeness, though, I hadn't started working on overriding any core game functionality, so I'm not sure how that could be.

At any rate, I'm glad it appears to be fixed now.

majulook

.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

So, while I was working on my addon to make zone completion work like it does on live, I noticed that icons on the map weren't flipping from black to white when completed. This is with all addons turned off:


You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character.

This seems like a bug to me, and it makes me wonder if the whole thing is working as intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_Kevin, could we please get confirmation one way or another on if dolmens, delves and world boss tracking is working as intended on maps? I would much prefer to not waste hours and hours on an addon that will be rendered obsolete in the coming weeks by an official fix.

I finally got home and went to try it, but I can't replicate this.

I got one brand new character to go to the Roots of Silvenar delve (I have no EU characters, so it's essentially a new account). He did it and I got the achievement and the marker turned white.


On a second character, it is labelled as 'complete' for them even though they've never been to Malabal. The second character also does not have the nearest wayshrine unlocked.

One thing I did notice on Live though - a new character doing something, even if it doesn't pop an achievement by itself - did still get a 'completed' popup. Here's my secondary just finishing a dolmen in Glenumbra.


Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

Yes... if your getting a completed popup on the second character, then there is a some"switch" that is being set on each character to allow for this. The question is what it is , AND is it available to be seen by API code and then used by an add-on.

Jaraal wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

The bigger question would be, if they're still tracking individual character achievements, why are they choosing to hide the achievements from us going forward? And where's the data savings, if the data is still working behind the scenes?

I agree why track this at all if AWA is needed to make the DB "stable"

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

The bigger question would be, if they're still tracking individual character achievements, why are they choosing to hide the achievements from us going forward? And where's the data savings, if the data is still working behind the scenes?

I really would love to have an official response, so that we didn't have to try and second-guess everything they are doing with it.

majulook

IMHO this whole AWA was supposed to be a nicety as lots of players wanted it.

They most likely thought of it working as other MMO games had it working.

Then for some reason they did not test thoroughly how it would fit into the current code, or how it would actually work for those that had multiple characters. So now there are the issues that are being are found on PTS.

joerginger

Even worse, for their monetization system they didn't really make everything account wide achievements. Neither did they remove all the achievement checks (for ambient pointless dialogue, crafting etc.) - which should have been the very first thing that should have been done. All checks would have to call on a quest journal (which still doesn't exist at all after so many years!) which could contain all story progress and so on.
But no, instead a convoluted mess is created that is neither a proper account wide system nor is anything people (not me) want still recorded for each character.

It's a bit as if somebody had mentioned to the people in charge that there is an interesting game named Guild Wars 2 that has a very nice account wide system - while failing to mention that all exploration and story progress is tracked per character, of course.

SilverBride

majulook wrote: »

IMHO this whole AWA was supposed to be a nicety as lots of players wanted it.

They most likely thought of it working as other MMO games had it working.

I thought it would be like WoW, where you could track account wide achievements along with individual character achievements, rather than instead of.

Kesstryl

Jaraal wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

The bigger question would be, if they're still tracking individual character achievements, why are they choosing to hide the achievements from us going forward? And where's the data savings, if the data is still working behind the scenes?

I don't think it's being tracked as a character achievement. I know there is a hidden quest journal that tracks all individual character quests, and maybe it's tied to that somehow. If they keep going further in that direction, they could fix this mess by moving NPC dialogue and reactions and achievment quests to the quest journal, and that would at least make Tamriel make sense again for our alts. Why they are rushing this out without these fixes is mind boggling. Why not delay it a couple weeks, even just one week so programmers can find all these things and fix them before having a messy release? Why won't they communicate with us about this? The silence is, as said above, insulting and frustrating. I feel like a five year old with authoritarian parents instead of an adult consumer of a product.

deleted221106-002999

I'm pretty sure they've signed off on this, bugs and all.

The lack of communication is par for the course and remains as clear as mud.

As we've experienced several times in the past we'll eventually see another 'promise' to improve communication or 'performance' while, again as we have seen in the past, no observable difference will be noted.

Provided the mercantile machinery keeps churning out 'new' output individual customer misgivings and complaints will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Kesstryl

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they've signed off on this, bugs and all.

The lack of communication is par for the course and remains as clear as mud.

As we've experienced several times in the past we'll eventually see another 'promise' to improve communication or 'performance' while, again as we have seen in the past, no observable difference will be noted.

Provided the mercantile machinery keeps churning out 'new' output individual customer misgivings and complaints will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Speaking of customer complaints, if some of the bugs with NPCs and quests make it to live, we should post them in the bugs reports forum and spam them with bug submissions until they get sick of us and fix these things.

old_scopie1945

Kesstryl wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they've signed off on this, bugs and all.

The lack of communication is par for the course and remains as clear as mud.

As we've experienced several times in the past we'll eventually see another 'promise' to improve communication or 'performance' while, again as we have seen in the past, no observable difference will be noted.

Provided the mercantile machinery keeps churning out 'new' output individual customer misgivings and complaints will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Speaking of customer complaints, if some of the bugs with NPCs and quests make it to live, we should post them in the bugs reports forum and spam them with bug submissions until they get sick of us and fix these things.

I think they would just close the thread down.

silvereyes

Kesstryl wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they've signed off on this, bugs and all.

The lack of communication is par for the course and remains as clear as mud.

As we've experienced several times in the past we'll eventually see another 'promise' to improve communication or 'performance' while, again as we have seen in the past, no observable difference will be noted.

Provided the mercantile machinery keeps churning out 'new' output individual customer misgivings and complaints will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Speaking of customer complaints, if some of the bugs with NPCs and quests make it to live, we should post them in the bugs reports forum and spam them with bug submissions until they get sick of us and fix these things.

Feel free to use /feedback in-game to send reminders, but I don't recommend cluttering up a forum thread with repeated information. Infrequent, but periodic reminders that an issue is still important to you can be useful information to the developers. However, make your requests too frequently, or with too much negativity, and you will likely get your feedback permanently filed into the "too cranky: ignore" drawer.

Kesstryl

silvereyes wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they've signed off on this, bugs and all.

The lack of communication is par for the course and remains as clear as mud.

As we've experienced several times in the past we'll eventually see another 'promise' to improve communication or 'performance' while, again as we have seen in the past, no observable difference will be noted.

Provided the mercantile machinery keeps churning out 'new' output individual customer misgivings and complaints will continue to be dealt with in exactly the same way.

Speaking of customer complaints, if some of the bugs with NPCs and quests make it to live, we should post them in the bugs reports forum and spam them with bug submissions until they get sick of us and fix these things.

Feel free to use /feedback in-game to send reminders, but I don't recommend cluttering up a forum thread with repeated information. Infrequent, but periodic reminders that an issue is still important to you can be useful information to the developers. However, make your requests too frequently, or with too much negativity, and you will likely get your feedback permanently filed into the "too cranky: ignore" drawer.

I wasn't clear what I meant about bug submissions, but I meant that as the in game bug reporting. I meant to imply post in the bug reports forum, and spam bugs in the in-game bug submission. Maybe spam was a bad choice of words, but the opposite will not get these things fixed either. Each time we encounter a bug, it should be reported in-game.

Kesstryl

Anyway, I finished Markarth part of the Greymoor story arc, and then went to the city of Markarth to hear NPC dialogue among themselves. I heard nothing out of the ordinary on a character that didn't start the Greymoor story. I do hope they fix the ending though so alts can access Taking Up The Mantle. Story wise it belongs.

Raevenglass

After all is said and done - we will all learn to live with whatever changes come if we decide to continue playing. It might not be ideal, but it's clear whatever is coming, is coming.

What has been the most depressing thing for me in this whole discussion (this thread and the others) is seeing players explain their issues, share their dismay, plead for some information and see absolutely NO response from ZOS.

If this is where we are supposed to communicate with the powers that be, should there be SOME response? Even if it is - "Please wait and see how this plays out before you delete characters or get worked up about which to log in with first. We hear what you are saying. Try the PTS out and tell us where the issues are. etc"

Maybe this is the minority opinion in this thread, how would we know? But how does ZOS know? Maybe they really don't care and figure for every long term player who cancels ESO+ and/or leaves, there will be a new one who logs on for the first time and has no complaint about the system because they have never know it any other way.

But a more thoughtful business model should include providing some reassurance to your community (that invests in your game) that you are listening, even if you disagree or will not provide what the community is requesting. Better to hear "no" than nothing at all.

kind_hero

Raevenglass wrote: »

After all is said and done - we will all learn to live with whatever changes come if we decide to continue playing. It might not be ideal, but it's clear whatever is coming, is coming.

What has been the most depressing thing for me in this whole discussion (this thread and the others) is seeing players explain their issues, share their dismay, plead for some information and see absolutely NO response from ZOS.

If this is where we are supposed to communicate with the powers that be, should there be SOME response? Even if it is - "Please wait and see how this plays out before you delete characters or get worked up about which to log in with first. We hear what you are saying. Try the PTS out and tell us where the issues are. etc"

Maybe this is the minority opinion in this thread, how would we know? But how does ZOS know? Maybe they really don't care and figure for every long term player who cancels ESO+ and/or leaves, there will be a new one who logs on for the first time and has no complaint about the system because they have never know it any other way.

But a more thoughtful business model should include providing some reassurance to your community (that invests in your game) that you are listening, even if you disagree or will not provide what the community is requesting. Better to hear "no" than nothing at all.

This is one of the main issues with this update. Again the same scarce engagement with the community from the developers and CMs. Even public services have better communication and take in consideration more feedback.

It is the first year when I consider leaving ESO. It's not the AwA, it's how stale and predictable everything has became. The community is not being listened, almost at all. Even if some decisions are unpopular, they are poorly presented to the community at best.

I am glad that I am not a PvPer, since I consider that area to be the orphan of ESO. Cyrodiil is 8 years old, and aside some new BG maps, pvpers have hardly got anything since launch.

But to me the biggest let down is how the devs sit in their ivory tower ignoring posts and feedback from passionate players who put a lot of time in providing feedback, testing, experimenting and playing the game. Also, these players are spending important amounts of money on subs, crates, crowns, housing content, etc on a monthly basis.

I would be happy if the game would have the depth it had years ago. During the week-end, I played in Vvardenfell with an alt, to get some achievements that won't be possible after U33. After years of not playing in the area, I found the difference between the Morrowind and Blackwood or Greymoor chapters to be huge. Morrowind feels like a new game compared to what Blackwood has to offer. (I liked Blackwood, tbh). The quests are more diverse and less predictable, the world is much larger and interesting. Everything has more depth. Even the houses are more detailed on the inside. This amount of polish has been lost, and can't be compensated with QoL updates such as AwA or gimmicks like the card game. The only thing that is 10/10 with every chapter is the world building, the environment. But the rest is stale. After you do the quests, there is nothing memorable to feel a connection to the newer zones, all that remains are grind quests to farm motifs and recipes.

All I can hope now is to be blown away by High Isle (very low expectations in reality, tbh, it's just wishful thinking for me), and for the future, I hope for a change in the team leading the game. It's my impression that someone is quite stubborn and has a tunnel view of how the game should evolve. Positive change can only happen with new people that can rekindle passion and the desire to do more, not only what has been proven to work.

Saieden

kind_hero wrote: »

Raevenglass wrote: »

After all is said and done - we will all learn to live with whatever changes come if we decide to continue playing. It might not be ideal, but it's clear whatever is coming, is coming.

What has been the most depressing thing for me in this whole discussion (this thread and the others) is seeing players explain their issues, share their dismay, plead for some information and see absolutely NO response from ZOS.

If this is where we are supposed to communicate with the powers that be, should there be SOME response? Even if it is - "Please wait and see how this plays out before you delete characters or get worked up about which to log in with first. We hear what you are saying. Try the PTS out and tell us where the issues are. etc"

Maybe this is the minority opinion in this thread, how would we know? But how does ZOS know? Maybe they really don't care and figure for every long term player who cancels ESO+ and/or leaves, there will be a new one who logs on for the first time and has no complaint about the system because they have never know it any other way.

But a more thoughtful business model should include providing some reassurance to your community (that invests in your game) that you are listening, even if you disagree or will not provide what the community is requesting. Better to hear "no" than nothing at all.

This is one of the main issues with this update. Again the same scarce engagement with the community from the developers and CMs. Even public services have better communication and take in consideration more feedback.

It is the first year when I consider leaving ESO. It's not the AwA, it's how stale and predictable everything has became. The community is not being listened, almost at all. Even if some decisions are unpopular, they are poorly presented to the community at best.

I am glad that I am not a PvPer, since I consider that area to be the orphan of ESO. Cyrodiil is 8 years old, and aside some new BG maps, pvpers have hardly got anything since launch.

But to me the biggest let down is how the devs sit in their ivory tower ignoring posts and feedback from passionate players who put a lot of time in providing feedback, testing, experimenting and playing the game. Also, these players are spending important amounts of money on subs, crates, crowns, housing content, etc on a monthly basis.

I would be happy if the game would have the depth it had years ago. During the week-end, I played in Vvardenfell with an alt, to get some achievements that won't be possible after U33. After years of not playing in the area, I found the difference between the Morrowind and Blackwood or Greymoor chapters to be huge. Morrowind feels like a new game compared to what Blackwood has to offer. (I liked Blackwood, tbh). The quests are more diverse and less predictable, the world is much larger and interesting. Everything has more depth. Even the houses are more detailed on the inside. This amount of polish has been lost, and can't be compensated with QoL updates such as AwA or gimmicks like the card game. The only thing that is 10/10 with every chapter is the world building, the environment. But the rest is stale. After you do the quests, there is nothing memorable to feel a connection to the newer zones, all that remains are grind quests to farm motifs and recipes.

All I can hope now is to be blown away by High Isle (very low expectations in reality, tbh, it's just wishful thinking for me), and for the future, I hope for a change in the team leading the game. It's my impression that someone is quite stubborn and has a tunnel view of how the game should evolve. Positive change can only happen with new people that can rekindle passion and the desire to do more, not only what has been proven to work.

I agree with the sentiment. Another thing that has pushed me is the amount of copypasta in new content, or rather, as I went through content. Every chapter is the exact same formula, just with new art on top, and even that is very much recycled combinations of faces and voices in new outfits (which don't vary that significantly from the amount of them that are in the game really). Just take Rockgrove for example, the bosses are still just a snake, an argonian behemoth, an argonian, and a harvester. The same applies to monsters throughout the zones, there are actually very few unique enemies (and no, a pirate two-hander is no different from an imperial two-hander) considering the vast amount of area they inhabit. I mean, half of Blackwood is virtually indistinguishable from most of Murkmire or Shadowfen, and the other half is a generic medieval setting. There's just no real innovation in terms of the core game content anymore.

majulook

So that's it?

Update 33 PTS is done, and this is how its going live with maybe some untested changes?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

majulook wrote: »

So that's it?

Update 33 PTS is done, and this is how its going live with maybe some untested changes?

Over a week and still total silence from ZoS.
Even if they can actually fix ALL thats wrong with AwA, I am not playing as much just because of the lost respect and faith I had in ZoS.
2500+ responses, 84 pages in less than 5 weeks, and you cant talk to us?
Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

I have already found myself not wanting to log in and UD isn't even live yet.
The AwA in it's current form is bad enough, but this eternal silence is what is killing my love of TES.

tmbrinks

majulook wrote: »

So that's it?
Update 33 PTS is done, and this is how its going live with maybe some untested changes?

It was going live as soon as they put it in PTS. Only time they've changed was when it literally broke the game (more so than the reasons given here, I guess...).

It is their game, and they can do what they wish to it. But companies who don't listen to their customers tend to not be around as long as those that do.

There are going to be lots of players in for a rude awakening when it goes live, especially since most of the threads in general, which is the only place many forum users ever look at (if at all), are getting closed and redirected here... they don't see the titles because who would ever scroll to the second page? It's true that players have asked for AwA (although it's really just a dozen or so who asked very loudly and repeatedly), but it's unlikely that this is what they had in mind. And because there hasn't been the option of a coherent thread in general to grab attention, and instead we have this thread, while it has brought things to light, it's been co-opted multiple times for tangential statements that it's nearly impossible to follow (and is far too long for somebody just starting to hear about it to read and process)

It really is sad to me that you've had Stream Team members comment on how poorly this is done. You've had prominent add-on creators comment on how poorly this is done. You've had long-time, 8-year veterans of this game comment on how poorly this is done. The people who have legitimately made this game what it is today, those who have made it better, promoted it, been here through the lean times; if those aren't the customers that you are listening to...

I'll continue to log in to play with my raid groups (sorry if anybody was hoping for the hundred of millions I've made from doing writs for years, collecting data, processing it, and sharing it with the community). I have stopped my subscription and will play for free. Undecided on purchasing the chapter, other than the trial, it holds no interest for me.

Jaraal

tmbrinks wrote: »

I'll continue to log in to play with my raid groups (sorry if anybody was hoping for the hundred of millions I've made from doing writs for years, collecting data, processing it, and sharing it with the community). I have stopped my subscription and will play for free. Undecided on purchasing the chapter, other than the trial, it holds no interest for me.

Yeah I haven't been playing much either, as my main has accomplished everything I wanted to achievement and story wise, so the motivation to play my alts has essentially disappeared. I will log in occasionally to say hi to my friends, and continue donating to my guilds until the funds run out. Other than that, I would feel ashamed to support this new direction they have chosen to take with the game I love. Like you, I've also stopped supporting them with my money. High Isle will be the first new content I haven't purchased.

Varana

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

They've basically said the latter when they took weeks (!) to publish a "Q&A" with information in it that should've been clear to them the moment they started implementing this stuff.
But typical for this "community" relations team, they can't help themselves to actually say things clearly if they're negative. If they can't put a positive spin on it, they just don't communicate at all.

Tandor

Quoted post has been removed.

I agree, it's not really the change in this Update that is the killing blow, most players will adapt to any change when it's managed properly and communicated openly, rather it's the unwillingness even to engage with the players that is delivering a final blow for some.

For me, it means not devoting the time to playing the 50 or so characters on two accounts and instead running a single character on my third account - meaning therefore one subscription against the original two and what would have been three if they had come to the forum during the course of the PTS process.

silvereyes

Varana wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

They've basically said the latter when they took weeks (!) to publish a "Q&A" with information in it that should've been clear to them the moment they started implementing this stuff.
But typical for this "community" relations team, they can't help themselves to actually say things clearly if they're negative. If they can't put a positive spin on it, they just don't communicate at all.

I've found the community reps in ESO to be some of the best for any game. @ZOS_GinaBruno has gone to bat for us innumerable times over the years, and @ZOS_Kevin often has responses faster than I would think is humanly possible.

If they are being silent, I suspect there is something bigger going on. Could be something as simple as that they are waiting for an answer that isn't forthcoming, or perhaps there's a larger PR strategy. In either case, don't take it out on the reps. They are great!

wenchmore420b14_ESO

silvereyes wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

They've basically said the latter when they took weeks (!) to publish a "Q&A" with information in it that should've been clear to them the moment they started implementing this stuff.
But typical for this "community" relations team, they can't help themselves to actually say things clearly if they're negative. If they can't put a positive spin on it, they just don't communicate at all.

I've found the community reps in ESO to be some of the best for any game. @ZOS_GinaBruno has gone to bat for us innumerable times over the years, and @ZOS_Kevin often has responses faster than I would think is humanly possible.

If they are being silent, I suspect there is something bigger going on. Could be something as simple as that they are waiting for an answer that isn't forthcoming, or perhaps there's a larger PR strategy. In either case, don't take it out on the reps. They are great!

Totally agree! +1
I was refering to Matt, Rich and/or Pete H.
Gina, Jess and Kevin are awesome!

silvereyes

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just tell us "Hey, we hear you and are trying to find a solution" or just tell us "We are doing this. Don't like it, oh well, tough".

They've basically said the latter when they took weeks (!) to publish a "Q&A" with information in it that should've been clear to them the moment they started implementing this stuff.
But typical for this "community" relations team, they can't help themselves to actually say things clearly if they're negative. If they can't put a positive spin on it, they just don't communicate at all.

I've found the community reps in ESO to be some of the best for any game. @ZOS_GinaBruno has gone to bat for us innumerable times over the years, and @ZOS_Kevin often has responses faster than I would think is humanly possible.

If they are being silent, I suspect there is something bigger going on. Could be something as simple as that they are waiting for an answer that isn't forthcoming, or perhaps there's a larger PR strategy. In either case, don't take it out on the reps. They are great!

Totally agree! +1
I was refering to Matt, Rich and/or Pete H.
Gina, Jess and Kevin are awesome!

Gotcha. I also agree that @ZOS_JessicaFolsom has been fantastic all these years.

Kesstryl

I'm joining the many here who are winding down on playing. I spent the last week on PTS (how long will that still be available for testing I wonder?) On live I've been cleaning out my bank and deconning gear not placed on parked alts to prepare for my sub to end. I will not buy the next chapter. I have a level 3 alt I'll log in with to manage my guild and chat with them, but I will not be participating in any content outside of that. I'll be watching and waiting to see what the final released patch notes say, and see if any of the bugs were fixed that were never addressed in the Q&A, patch notes (not even to acknowledge them), or addressed in any meaningful way to us. I don't blame the CMs for that, I blame their bosses. I guess I'll be watching and waiting to see when or if I can come back home to this game, but as it stands, I'm done for now.

peacenote

The game has definitely lost its magic for me. I won't outright quit immediately, because I will keep doing my end game activities for now, because my friends are still here, but I spent the weekend exploring Elden Ring co-op and, unfortunately for ZOS, the main reason I spent any money in the Crown Store will now be gone. Who cares about costumes or mounts or anything when a big part of what drove me to make more characters, and customize them, and revisit them, is gone? I'm not buying the weapon packs anymore, I won't look at new houses, nothing. It's not a "threat" - it's just a reality. Guess how many costumes I need if I'm using just one character and swapping builds through the armory? Yep, that's right - one! And I've already got plenty. If I buy any expansions at all, which I may not, there's no longer any reason to get the extra digital special editions, which I bought religiously. It's really as much about the horrible communication and lack of respect to all of the stories and sentiments as it is anything else. I'm busy, I shouldn't be gaming this much anyway. I made ESO my main hobby because it was a nice, comfortable, enjoyable place to spend time when I needed a distraction; maybe I should be thankful that ZOS gave me a reason to care less and save more money. I'm not quite a whale (the people who bought crates until they got apex mounts were in that category, to me) but I always bought at least one 15 pack of the new crown crates, I stocked up on crowns every time they went on sale, I've bought multiple large expensive houses and I never resisted much if something shiny caught my eye. I let myself look at the Crown Store, for fun. It will be extremely easy for me just not to look anymore.

Oh and let's not forget ALLL the people I've told over the years that they should play this game, because it's awesome and ZOS really does listen to feedback. I won't be serving as free advertisements for them anymore, either.

And literally ZOS is losing all of that business because they can't be bothered to store character progress somewhere else and give me little pop ups when I accomplish something a second time or even ACKNOWLEDGE that people liked this!

Kind of a small thing that I'm curious about. If I recall correctly it used to be a nice little benefit that if your character had never beaten a delve before, the boss would appear right away, the first time you walked up - even if it had just been killed. Does this still work or was that tracked through achievements too? Anyone try that?

I still feel like this message, 85 pages to date, didn't get to the right person. It's too bad. I think the way AwA was implemented WILL negatively impact the bottom line of the game, possibly significantly, and it will affect longevity of players in an ongoing way in the community. Someone should tell the right person at Microsoft that their investment may not be as valuable as they originally thought. If I knew the right person, I would tell them, but alas I do not. I really wanted to see ZOS avoid this mis-step, as it's an amazing game, but I agree with others that we're at the point that this will not be paused, reversed, or tweaked (even though they could still choose to do this, if they really wanted).

Danel_Vadan

Really looking forward to this! On console, so I have to wait longer, but I'm thrilled to be able to switch characters and continue having account progress as I progress their own personal story.