PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Kesstryl

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Us old TES fans who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience have been pushed aside for you.

Sorry but dont throw all tes fan that came here for a tes game all in the same bucket
Acheivement while more important for some than others arent a mandatory part of being a tes fan

Acheivements surely arent. Being able to play the game more than once is.

This is all purely speculational for now, but what do you plan to do when this thing is pushed to live regardless? I'm going to spam the hell out of guild and zone chats, reddit and forums about how you can play a (great) Elder Scrolls game only once.

Continue questing on my 18 characters, just as i did before the patch.
Its not because a few quest are broken that the game isnt replayable,in fact it definitly is replayable

Sure i do understand that not being able to redo acheivement on alt may saden or even anger some, but the game is much bigger thant that.

its more than a few.by my count its around 50ish buggy/ broken quests

I keep seeing people throw around this ~50 broken quests figure. What are you including in that figure? Because I know I'm bad at math sometimes, but I read through the entire bug reports thread, and I only count 7, and one of them can be easily avoided:

• A Book and its Cover from Summerset
• Surreptitiously Shadowed from Murkmire
• Giant Cheese Connoisseur from Greymoor
• Taking Up the Mantle from Blackreach
• A Friend in Deed from Markarth
• Adoring Admirer from Blackwood
• Innocent Scoundrel in Stros M'Kai - triggering this bug seems to be a real edge case. Just don't do Stros M'kai quests on two characters simultaneously.

Check better... should be tomofhyrule post on page 3, with a pretty long list at its end as spoiler.

Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7531289/#Comment_7531289

That's not a list of quests. It's a list of achievements under the "quests" category.

Edit: Also, I went back and counted, and there are 185 quests in that list. So where's the "50" coming from? Even if you exclude the museum quests / Kari's Hit List, it's still nowhere close.

There are several points of fact that I think are being lost by just tossing around the "50 broken quests" line without context:

1. @tomofhyrule's point was to request that the developers err on the side of caution and add all to the exclusions list until they could be tested. They explicitly did not test all of them.
2. One of the achievements on that list, "Hero of Bleakrock", was independently tested by two people (one of them @tomofhyrule themself) and found to have no issues.
3. @Wolf_Eye tested the entire Western Skyrim and Markarth zones' story lines and only reported two broken quests. The rest can probably be assumed to be working, or at least to only break under certain edge case conditions. That's another 20 or so achievements on the list right there.

Not mentioned in the bugs thread, but I also specifically tested the Kingmaker stuff in Wrothgar, and I had no issues there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with questing, or that all of the quests on that list are fine. I'm just saying we shouldn't be assuming that they are all broken, and there's already been testing to say many are not broken.

There's enough to be sad about right now without adding in unverified speculation.

I agree with Silvereyes. When I did my Dark Heart of Skyrim questline test, I ONLY found the following two things messed up:

1. The Bard Quest giver at the Bard's college showed up at the Western Skyrim afterparty even though my alt couldn't complete his quest (I suspect that this might be fixed/changed with regards to them turning all museum quests to be individually tracked).
2. The final dialogue and conversation by a certain questline NPC in Blackreach does not happen at all if you've already talked to him on a prior toon. (Taking up the Mantle Achievement)

There was also the additional consideration of Melina Cassel's conversations in Markarth were not working properly, and her treating all of my characters as if they were the same person because her conversation stages were tracked specifically by the achievement itself. (But, I acknowledge that Melina Cassel is an optional side quest thing, and not part of the greater main storyline as a whole. You don't actually need to speak to her to complete the main quest).

Is it possible that I might have missed some problems during my testing? Sure, anything is possible. But as much as I dearly, dearly love these characters and desperately want them fixed, I'm not going to misrepresent the results of my test; the vast majority of the Dark Heart of Skyrim questline was, as far as I could tell, perfectly intact and working properly.

NPCs that appeared during the questline reacted to the alt appropriately and did not mention things she didn't do (like the Rivenspire questline, the Coldharbour main questline, the Unhallowed Grave quest, etc), in spite of the fact that my Main had unlocked the achievements associated with these quests prior to the test.

However, and I think this is why @tomofhyrule was listing out storyline achievements, we just don't know how many more storylines have bits and pieces missing like this. While it is not guaranteed that the list of story connected achievements are bugged or permanently altered, on the flipside we also don't have any guarantees that they will work properly either after AWA comes to the live servers. And I think that's what many people, including myself, are very concerned about; how many chunks of the world are going to go missing when this hits live?

It's a daunting task for any player to use their free time to play through entire storylines (and you can't always just rush, you'd have to pay some attention to what the NPCs are saying to make sure achievements aren't triggering different dialogue). For people like me, who don't have any EU toons, the task is doubly daunting since we'd have to play through questlines twice; once to establish achievements, and the second to test those out.

It really is something that ZOS needs to look into and the lack of communication on their end about these issues is very distressing and heartbreaking; is it intended that I must lose story bits of my fav characters permanently after only ever doing them once? I am just very depressed and saddened about this idea.

I do want to take a moment to say that I deeply appreciate all the help and support from fellow players who keep asking ZOS about this because I feel like every little bit helps. Even if you are not terribly interested in story or don't really care about these characters, I do still appreciate it. At the very least I do not have to be alone in asking ZOS for fixes and answers, and I am very, very grateful. Thank you. You are all amazing to me.

I concur that so far the Greymoor story is working properly without immersion breaking NPC shennanigans. I haven't tested the two quests mentioned here. PTS is EU and I don't have a EU account so I've had to start from scratch. I chose Greymoor because I love the Ravenwatch gang and wanted to experience it again with the exact same character I first played it on live as it's her story, so I recreated her on PTS. It's also an opportunity to get screenshots I didn't get. I finished Western Skyrim (mostly main quest and a few side, not the entire zone is done). I will start Markarth tomorrow. I also made a level 3 alt who finished no quests to walk around Solitude, and there were no NPC talking among themselves about things out of order. Granted this is a DLC and these are not base game zones (those should probably be tested by many different people, but it is a volunteer endeavor). I will take that alt and ride around the Western Skyrim zone to see if the rest of the zone interacts with that character properly and nothing is said about my other character for the achievements she got. It does take a long time, especially on a new account, so I doubt I will find anything others haven't already found. I wish we had more time to test this update, I think something this massive needs more than 5 weeks of testing to really dig into every aspect that achievements touch.

Anyway, I am greatly enjoying the Greymoor story all over again. There's a lot I either forgot or missed (another reason why alts need fresh experiences and not have their version of the game world tainted by breaking the 4th wall with NPCs triggering narrative incoherence from achievements). I took lots of digital selfies with Fennorian, can't wait to take many more with Count Ravenwatch, and experience his epilogue again ;o

Wolf_Eye

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Us old TES fans who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience have been pushed aside for you.

Sorry but dont throw all tes fan that came here for a tes game all in the same bucket
Acheivement while more important for some than others arent a mandatory part of being a tes fan

Acheivements surely arent. Being able to play the game more than once is.

This is all purely speculational for now, but what do you plan to do when this thing is pushed to live regardless? I'm going to spam the hell out of guild and zone chats, reddit and forums about how you can play a (great) Elder Scrolls game only once.

Continue questing on my 18 characters, just as i did before the patch.
Its not because a few quest are broken that the game isnt replayable,in fact it definitly is replayable

Sure i do understand that not being able to redo acheivement on alt may saden or even anger some, but the game is much bigger thant that.

its more than a few.by my count its around 50ish buggy/ broken quests

I keep seeing people throw around this ~50 broken quests figure. What are you including in that figure? Because I know I'm bad at math sometimes, but I read through the entire bug reports thread, and I only count 7, and one of them can be easily avoided:

• A Book and its Cover from Summerset
• Surreptitiously Shadowed from Murkmire
• Giant Cheese Connoisseur from Greymoor
• Taking Up the Mantle from Blackreach
• A Friend in Deed from Markarth
• Adoring Admirer from Blackwood
• Innocent Scoundrel in Stros M'Kai - triggering this bug seems to be a real edge case. Just don't do Stros M'kai quests on two characters simultaneously.

Check better... should be tomofhyrule post on page 3, with a pretty long list at its end as spoiler.

Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7531289/#Comment_7531289

That's not a list of quests. It's a list of achievements under the "quests" category.

Edit: Also, I went back and counted, and there are 185 quests in that list. So where's the "50" coming from? Even if you exclude the museum quests / Kari's Hit List, it's still nowhere close.

There are several points of fact that I think are being lost by just tossing around the "50 broken quests" line without context:

1. @tomofhyrule's point was to request that the developers err on the side of caution and add all to the exclusions list until they could be tested. They explicitly did not test all of them.
2. One of the achievements on that list, "Hero of Bleakrock", was independently tested by two people (one of them @tomofhyrule themself) and found to have no issues.
3. @Wolf_Eye tested the entire Western Skyrim and Markarth zones' story lines and only reported two broken quests. The rest can probably be assumed to be working, or at least to only break under certain edge case conditions. That's another 20 or so achievements on the list right there.

Not mentioned in the bugs thread, but I also specifically tested the Kingmaker stuff in Wrothgar, and I had no issues there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with questing, or that all of the quests on that list are fine. I'm just saying we shouldn't be assuming that they are all broken, and there's already been testing to say many are not broken.

There's enough to be sad about right now without adding in unverified speculation.

I agree with Silvereyes. When I did my Dark Heart of Skyrim questline test, I ONLY found the following two things messed up:

1. The Bard Quest giver at the Bard's college showed up at the Western Skyrim afterparty even though my alt couldn't complete his quest (I suspect that this might be fixed/changed with regards to them turning all museum quests to be individually tracked).
2. The final dialogue and conversation by a certain questline NPC in Blackreach does not happen at all if you've already talked to him on a prior toon. (Taking up the Mantle Achievement)

There was also the additional consideration of Melina Cassel's conversations in Markarth were not working properly, and her treating all of my characters as if they were the same person because her conversation stages were tracked specifically by the achievement itself. (But, I acknowledge that Melina Cassel is an optional side quest thing, and not part of the greater main storyline as a whole. You don't actually need to speak to her to complete the main quest).

Is it possible that I might have missed some problems during my testing? Sure, anything is possible. But as much as I dearly, dearly love these characters and desperately want them fixed, I'm not going to misrepresent the results of my test; the vast majority of the Dark Heart of Skyrim questline was, as far as I could tell, perfectly intact and working properly.

NPCs that appeared during the questline reacted to the alt appropriately and did not mention things she didn't do (like the Rivenspire questline, the Coldharbour main questline, the Unhallowed Grave quest, etc), in spite of the fact that my Main had unlocked the achievements associated with these quests prior to the test.

However, and I think this is why @tomofhyrule was listing out storyline achievements, we just don't know how many more storylines have bits and pieces missing like this. While it is not guaranteed that the list of story connected achievements are bugged or permanently altered, on the flipside we also don't have any guarantees that they will work properly either after AWA comes to the live servers. And I think that's what many people, including myself, are very concerned about; how many chunks of the world are going to go missing when this hits live?

It's a daunting task for any player to use their free time to play through entire storylines (and you can't always just rush, you'd have to pay some attention to what the NPCs are saying to make sure achievements aren't triggering different dialogue). For people like me, who don't have any EU toons, the task is doubly daunting since we'd have to play through questlines twice; once to establish achievements, and the second to test those out.

It really is something that ZOS needs to look into and the lack of communication on their end about these issues is very distressing and heartbreaking; is it intended that I must lose story bits of my fav characters permanently after only ever doing them once? I am just very depressed and saddened about this idea.

I do want to take a moment to say that I deeply appreciate all the help and support from fellow players who keep asking ZOS about this because I feel like every little bit helps. Even if you are not terribly interested in story or don't really care about these characters, I do still appreciate it. At the very least I do not have to be alone in asking ZOS for fixes and answers, and I am very, very grateful. Thank you. You are all amazing to me.

I concur that so far the Greymoor story is working properly without immersion breaking NPC shennanigans. I haven't tested the two quests mentioned here. PTS is EU and I don't have a EU account so I've had to start from scratch. I chose Greymoor because I love the Ravenwatch gang and wanted to experience it again with the exact same character I first played it on as it's her story, so I recreated her on PTS. It's also an opportunity to get screenshots I didn't get. I finished Western Skyrim (mostly main quest and a few side, not the entire zone is done). I will start Markarth tomorrow. I also made a level 3 alt who finished no quests to walk around Solitude, and there were no NPC talking among themselves about things out of order. Granted this is a DLC and these are not base game zones (those should probably be tested by many different people, but it is a volunteer endeavor). I will take that alt and ride around the Western Skyrim zone to see if the rest of the zone interacts with that character properly and nothing is said about my other character for the achievements she got. It does take a long time, especially on a new account, so I doubt I will find anything others haven't already found. I wish we had more time to test this update, I think something this massive needs more than 5 weeks of testing to really dig into every aspect that achievements touch.

Anyway, I am greatly enjoying the Greymoor story all over again. There's a lot I either forgot or missed (another reason why alts need fresh experiences and not have their version of the game world tainted by breaking the 4th wall with NPCs triggering narrative incoherence from achievements). I took lots of digital selfies with Fennorian, can't wait to take many more with Count Ravenwatch, and experience his epilogue again ;o

If you don't have an EU account (and don't have the achievements previously unlocked), then you will have to run through the entire storyline twice, because Verandis will likely appear once[ to any account that doesn't already have Taking Up the Mantle completed. After that achievement is gained and unlocked on all alts, he won't ever appear to any alts again. And yeah, it's a lot of work for one person.

Kesstryl

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Us old TES fans who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience have been pushed aside for you.

Sorry but dont throw all tes fan that came here for a tes game all in the same bucket
Acheivement while more important for some than others arent a mandatory part of being a tes fan

Acheivements surely arent. Being able to play the game more than once is.

This is all purely speculational for now, but what do you plan to do when this thing is pushed to live regardless? I'm going to spam the hell out of guild and zone chats, reddit and forums about how you can play a (great) Elder Scrolls game only once.

Continue questing on my 18 characters, just as i did before the patch.
Its not because a few quest are broken that the game isnt replayable,in fact it definitly is replayable

Sure i do understand that not being able to redo acheivement on alt may saden or even anger some, but the game is much bigger thant that.

its more than a few.by my count its around 50ish buggy/ broken quests

I keep seeing people throw around this ~50 broken quests figure. What are you including in that figure? Because I know I'm bad at math sometimes, but I read through the entire bug reports thread, and I only count 7, and one of them can be easily avoided:

• A Book and its Cover from Summerset
• Surreptitiously Shadowed from Murkmire
• Giant Cheese Connoisseur from Greymoor
• Taking Up the Mantle from Blackreach
• A Friend in Deed from Markarth
• Adoring Admirer from Blackwood
• Innocent Scoundrel in Stros M'Kai - triggering this bug seems to be a real edge case. Just don't do Stros M'kai quests on two characters simultaneously.

Check better... should be tomofhyrule post on page 3, with a pretty long list at its end as spoiler.

Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7531289/#Comment_7531289

That's not a list of quests. It's a list of achievements under the "quests" category.

Edit: Also, I went back and counted, and there are 185 quests in that list. So where's the "50" coming from? Even if you exclude the museum quests / Kari's Hit List, it's still nowhere close.

There are several points of fact that I think are being lost by just tossing around the "50 broken quests" line without context:

1. @tomofhyrule's point was to request that the developers err on the side of caution and add all to the exclusions list until they could be tested. They explicitly did not test all of them.
2. One of the achievements on that list, "Hero of Bleakrock", was independently tested by two people (one of them @tomofhyrule themself) and found to have no issues.
3. @Wolf_Eye tested the entire Western Skyrim and Markarth zones' story lines and only reported two broken quests. The rest can probably be assumed to be working, or at least to only break under certain edge case conditions. That's another 20 or so achievements on the list right there.

Not mentioned in the bugs thread, but I also specifically tested the Kingmaker stuff in Wrothgar, and I had no issues there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with questing, or that all of the quests on that list are fine. I'm just saying we shouldn't be assuming that they are all broken, and there's already been testing to say many are not broken.

There's enough to be sad about right now without adding in unverified speculation.

I agree with Silvereyes. When I did my Dark Heart of Skyrim questline test, I ONLY found the following two things messed up:

1. The Bard Quest giver at the Bard's college showed up at the Western Skyrim afterparty even though my alt couldn't complete his quest (I suspect that this might be fixed/changed with regards to them turning all museum quests to be individually tracked).
2. The final dialogue and conversation by a certain questline NPC in Blackreach does not happen at all if you've already talked to him on a prior toon. (Taking up the Mantle Achievement)

There was also the additional consideration of Melina Cassel's conversations in Markarth were not working properly, and her treating all of my characters as if they were the same person because her conversation stages were tracked specifically by the achievement itself. (But, I acknowledge that Melina Cassel is an optional side quest thing, and not part of the greater main storyline as a whole. You don't actually need to speak to her to complete the main quest).

Is it possible that I might have missed some problems during my testing? Sure, anything is possible. But as much as I dearly, dearly love these characters and desperately want them fixed, I'm not going to misrepresent the results of my test; the vast majority of the Dark Heart of Skyrim questline was, as far as I could tell, perfectly intact and working properly.

NPCs that appeared during the questline reacted to the alt appropriately and did not mention things she didn't do (like the Rivenspire questline, the Coldharbour main questline, the Unhallowed Grave quest, etc), in spite of the fact that my Main had unlocked the achievements associated with these quests prior to the test.

However, and I think this is why @tomofhyrule was listing out storyline achievements, we just don't know how many more storylines have bits and pieces missing like this. While it is not guaranteed that the list of story connected achievements are bugged or permanently altered, on the flipside we also don't have any guarantees that they will work properly either after AWA comes to the live servers. And I think that's what many people, including myself, are very concerned about; how many chunks of the world are going to go missing when this hits live?

It's a daunting task for any player to use their free time to play through entire storylines (and you can't always just rush, you'd have to pay some attention to what the NPCs are saying to make sure achievements aren't triggering different dialogue). For people like me, who don't have any EU toons, the task is doubly daunting since we'd have to play through questlines twice; once to establish achievements, and the second to test those out.

It really is something that ZOS needs to look into and the lack of communication on their end about these issues is very distressing and heartbreaking; is it intended that I must lose story bits of my fav characters permanently after only ever doing them once? I am just very depressed and saddened about this idea.

I do want to take a moment to say that I deeply appreciate all the help and support from fellow players who keep asking ZOS about this because I feel like every little bit helps. Even if you are not terribly interested in story or don't really care about these characters, I do still appreciate it. At the very least I do not have to be alone in asking ZOS for fixes and answers, and I am very, very grateful. Thank you. You are all amazing to me.

I concur that so far the Greymoor story is working properly without immersion breaking NPC shennanigans. I haven't tested the two quests mentioned here. PTS is EU and I don't have a EU account so I've had to start from scratch. I chose Greymoor because I love the Ravenwatch gang and wanted to experience it again with the exact same character I first played it on as it's her story, so I recreated her on PTS. It's also an opportunity to get screenshots I didn't get. I finished Western Skyrim (mostly main quest and a few side, not the entire zone is done). I will start Markarth tomorrow. I also made a level 3 alt who finished no quests to walk around Solitude, and there were no NPC talking among themselves about things out of order. Granted this is a DLC and these are not base game zones (those should probably be tested by many different people, but it is a volunteer endeavor). I will take that alt and ride around the Western Skyrim zone to see if the rest of the zone interacts with that character properly and nothing is said about my other character for the achievements she got. It does take a long time, especially on a new account, so I doubt I will find anything others haven't already found. I wish we had more time to test this update, I think something this massive needs more than 5 weeks of testing to really dig into every aspect that achievements touch.

Anyway, I am greatly enjoying the Greymoor story all over again. There's a lot I either forgot or missed (another reason why alts need fresh experiences and not have their version of the game world tainted by breaking the 4th wall with NPCs triggering narrative incoherence from achievements). I took lots of digital selfies with Fennorian, can't wait to take many more with Count Ravenwatch, and experience his epilogue again ;o

If you don't have an EU account (and don't have the achievements previously unlocked), then you will have to run through the entire storyline twice, because Verandis will likely appear once[ to any account that doesn't already have Taking Up the Mantle completed. After that achievement is gained and unlocked on all alts, he won't ever appear to any alts again. And yeah, it's a lot of work for one person.

I'm confused as to why I have to go through it twice. I'm not intentionally testing the epilogue because I already know he won't be there the second time. Since it's EU and I don't have a EU account, I will get his epilogue this play through. I'm mainly talking about how much of a blast I've had being able to play this fresh on EU PTS, and I'm able to recreate the character I had on live and play her story all over again as if I had just created her. It's like being able to rewind and rewatch a favorite movie. I mean the beginning was different, because of the Derenni Island tutorial, and on live she woke up in a prison cell with Fennorian trapped in the coffin. I really wish they kept the original DLC tutorials and let us choose which one to do instead of giving us yet another new one no one wanted when we just wanted to replay the old ones.

Wolf_Eye

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Us old TES fans who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience have been pushed aside for you.

Sorry but dont throw all tes fan that came here for a tes game all in the same bucket
Acheivement while more important for some than others arent a mandatory part of being a tes fan

Acheivements surely arent. Being able to play the game more than once is.

This is all purely speculational for now, but what do you plan to do when this thing is pushed to live regardless? I'm going to spam the hell out of guild and zone chats, reddit and forums about how you can play a (great) Elder Scrolls game only once.

Continue questing on my 18 characters, just as i did before the patch.
Its not because a few quest are broken that the game isnt replayable,in fact it definitly is replayable

Sure i do understand that not being able to redo acheivement on alt may saden or even anger some, but the game is much bigger thant that.

its more than a few.by my count its around 50ish buggy/ broken quests

I keep seeing people throw around this ~50 broken quests figure. What are you including in that figure? Because I know I'm bad at math sometimes, but I read through the entire bug reports thread, and I only count 7, and one of them can be easily avoided:

• A Book and its Cover from Summerset
• Surreptitiously Shadowed from Murkmire
• Giant Cheese Connoisseur from Greymoor
• Taking Up the Mantle from Blackreach
• A Friend in Deed from Markarth
• Adoring Admirer from Blackwood
• Innocent Scoundrel in Stros M'Kai - triggering this bug seems to be a real edge case. Just don't do Stros M'kai quests on two characters simultaneously.

Check better... should be tomofhyrule post on page 3, with a pretty long list at its end as spoiler.

Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7531289/#Comment_7531289

That's not a list of quests. It's a list of achievements under the "quests" category.

Edit: Also, I went back and counted, and there are 185 quests in that list. So where's the "50" coming from? Even if you exclude the museum quests / Kari's Hit List, it's still nowhere close.

There are several points of fact that I think are being lost by just tossing around the "50 broken quests" line without context:

1. @tomofhyrule's point was to request that the developers err on the side of caution and add all to the exclusions list until they could be tested. They explicitly did not test all of them.
2. One of the achievements on that list, "Hero of Bleakrock", was independently tested by two people (one of them @tomofhyrule themself) and found to have no issues.
3. @Wolf_Eye tested the entire Western Skyrim and Markarth zones' story lines and only reported two broken quests. The rest can probably be assumed to be working, or at least to only break under certain edge case conditions. That's another 20 or so achievements on the list right there.

Not mentioned in the bugs thread, but I also specifically tested the Kingmaker stuff in Wrothgar, and I had no issues there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with questing, or that all of the quests on that list are fine. I'm just saying we shouldn't be assuming that they are all broken, and there's already been testing to say many are not broken.

There's enough to be sad about right now without adding in unverified speculation.

I agree with Silvereyes. When I did my Dark Heart of Skyrim questline test, I ONLY found the following two things messed up:

1. The Bard Quest giver at the Bard's college showed up at the Western Skyrim afterparty even though my alt couldn't complete his quest (I suspect that this might be fixed/changed with regards to them turning all museum quests to be individually tracked).
2. The final dialogue and conversation by a certain questline NPC in Blackreach does not happen at all if you've already talked to him on a prior toon. (Taking up the Mantle Achievement)

There was also the additional consideration of Melina Cassel's conversations in Markarth were not working properly, and her treating all of my characters as if they were the same person because her conversation stages were tracked specifically by the achievement itself. (But, I acknowledge that Melina Cassel is an optional side quest thing, and not part of the greater main storyline as a whole. You don't actually need to speak to her to complete the main quest).

Is it possible that I might have missed some problems during my testing? Sure, anything is possible. But as much as I dearly, dearly love these characters and desperately want them fixed, I'm not going to misrepresent the results of my test; the vast majority of the Dark Heart of Skyrim questline was, as far as I could tell, perfectly intact and working properly.

NPCs that appeared during the questline reacted to the alt appropriately and did not mention things she didn't do (like the Rivenspire questline, the Coldharbour main questline, the Unhallowed Grave quest, etc), in spite of the fact that my Main had unlocked the achievements associated with these quests prior to the test.

However, and I think this is why @tomofhyrule was listing out storyline achievements, we just don't know how many more storylines have bits and pieces missing like this. While it is not guaranteed that the list of story connected achievements are bugged or permanently altered, on the flipside we also don't have any guarantees that they will work properly either after AWA comes to the live servers. And I think that's what many people, including myself, are very concerned about; how many chunks of the world are going to go missing when this hits live?

It's a daunting task for any player to use their free time to play through entire storylines (and you can't always just rush, you'd have to pay some attention to what the NPCs are saying to make sure achievements aren't triggering different dialogue). For people like me, who don't have any EU toons, the task is doubly daunting since we'd have to play through questlines twice; once to establish achievements, and the second to test those out.

It really is something that ZOS needs to look into and the lack of communication on their end about these issues is very distressing and heartbreaking; is it intended that I must lose story bits of my fav characters permanently after only ever doing them once? I am just very depressed and saddened about this idea.

I do want to take a moment to say that I deeply appreciate all the help and support from fellow players who keep asking ZOS about this because I feel like every little bit helps. Even if you are not terribly interested in story or don't really care about these characters, I do still appreciate it. At the very least I do not have to be alone in asking ZOS for fixes and answers, and I am very, very grateful. Thank you. You are all amazing to me.

I concur that so far the Greymoor story is working properly without immersion breaking NPC shennanigans. I haven't tested the two quests mentioned here. PTS is EU and I don't have a EU account so I've had to start from scratch. I chose Greymoor because I love the Ravenwatch gang and wanted to experience it again with the exact same character I first played it on as it's her story, so I recreated her on PTS. It's also an opportunity to get screenshots I didn't get. I finished Western Skyrim (mostly main quest and a few side, not the entire zone is done). I will start Markarth tomorrow. I also made a level 3 alt who finished no quests to walk around Solitude, and there were no NPC talking among themselves about things out of order. Granted this is a DLC and these are not base game zones (those should probably be tested by many different people, but it is a volunteer endeavor). I will take that alt and ride around the Western Skyrim zone to see if the rest of the zone interacts with that character properly and nothing is said about my other character for the achievements she got. It does take a long time, especially on a new account, so I doubt I will find anything others haven't already found. I wish we had more time to test this update, I think something this massive needs more than 5 weeks of testing to really dig into every aspect that achievements touch.

Anyway, I am greatly enjoying the Greymoor story all over again. There's a lot I either forgot or missed (another reason why alts need fresh experiences and not have their version of the game world tainted by breaking the 4th wall with NPCs triggering narrative incoherence from achievements). I took lots of digital selfies with Fennorian, can't wait to take many more with Count Ravenwatch, and experience his epilogue again ;o

If you don't have an EU account (and don't have the achievements previously unlocked), then you will have to run through the entire storyline twice, because Verandis will likely appear once[ to any account that doesn't already have Taking Up the Mantle completed. After that achievement is gained and unlocked on all alts, he won't ever appear to any alts again. And yeah, it's a lot of work for one person.

I'm confused as to why I have to go through it twice. I'm not intentionally testing the epilogue because I already know he won't be there the second time. Since it's EU and I don't have a EU account, I will get his epilogue this play through. I'm mainly talking about how much of a blast I've had being able to play this fresh on EU PTS, and I'm able to recreate the character I had on live and play her story all over again as if I had just created her. It's like being able to rewind and rewatch a favorite movie. I mean the beginning was different, because of the Derenni Island tutorial, and on live she woke up in a prison cell with Fennorian trapped in the coffin. I really wish they kept the original DLC tutorials and let us choose which one to do instead of giving us yet another new one no one wanted when we just wanted to replay the old ones.

Oh gotcha. I thought you meant to test the epilogue to see if they fixed it (I doubt they did, since I feel like they would have mentioned it in the patch notes). I deeply apologize for the misunderstanding.

And yes, I dearly wish they had kept the original DLC tutorials, especially since the NPCs will react to you differently if you've done them. And some of them were extremely fun and gave more story to the overarching world. Like I know the Elsweyr tutorial had bits of Khajiiti lore in it. And Greymoor straight up had you start in a nostalgic location from TES 5 Skyrim...

tomofhyrule

I really miss the old tutorials too. I really liked Deepwood Vale, and the Morrowind tutorial where you jumped off the ship as it exploded was great. Really wish the Balfiera portals gave you the option of going to the old tutorial as well as just jumping straight to the Seyda Neen ship.

Now it just feels like more is being taken away...

silvereyes

So, while I was working on my addon to make zone completion work like it does on live, I noticed that icons on the map weren't flipping from black to white when completed. This is with all addons turned off:


You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character.

This seems like a bug to me, and it makes me wonder if the whole thing is working as intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_Kevin, could we please get confirmation one way or another on if dolmens, delves and world boss tracking is working as intended on maps? I would much prefer to not waste hours and hours on an addon that will be rendered obsolete in the coming weeks by an official fix.

ArchangelIsraphel

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Us old TES fans who came here for an Elder Scrolls experience have been pushed aside for you.

Sorry but dont throw all tes fan that came here for a tes game all in the same bucket
Acheivement while more important for some than others arent a mandatory part of being a tes fan

Acheivements surely arent. Being able to play the game more than once is.

This is all purely speculational for now, but what do you plan to do when this thing is pushed to live regardless? I'm going to spam the hell out of guild and zone chats, reddit and forums about how you can play a (great) Elder Scrolls game only once.

Continue questing on my 18 characters, just as i did before the patch.
Its not because a few quest are broken that the game isnt replayable,in fact it definitly is replayable

Sure i do understand that not being able to redo acheivement on alt may saden or even anger some, but the game is much bigger thant that.

its more than a few.by my count its around 50ish buggy/ broken quests

I keep seeing people throw around this ~50 broken quests figure. What are you including in that figure? Because I know I'm bad at math sometimes, but I read through the entire bug reports thread, and I only count 7, and one of them can be easily avoided:

• A Book and its Cover from Summerset
• Surreptitiously Shadowed from Murkmire
• Giant Cheese Connoisseur from Greymoor
• Taking Up the Mantle from Blackreach
• A Friend in Deed from Markarth
• Adoring Admirer from Blackwood
• Innocent Scoundrel in Stros M'Kai - triggering this bug seems to be a real edge case. Just don't do Stros M'kai quests on two characters simultaneously.

Check better... should be tomofhyrule post on page 3, with a pretty long list at its end as spoiler.

Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7531289/#Comment_7531289

That's not a list of quests. It's a list of achievements under the "quests" category.

Edit: Also, I went back and counted, and there are 185 quests in that list. So where's the "50" coming from? Even if you exclude the museum quests / Kari's Hit List, it's still nowhere close.

There are several points of fact that I think are being lost by just tossing around the "50 broken quests" line without context:

1. @tomofhyrule's point was to request that the developers err on the side of caution and add all to the exclusions list until they could be tested. They explicitly did not test all of them.
2. One of the achievements on that list, "Hero of Bleakrock", was independently tested by two people (one of them @tomofhyrule themself) and found to have no issues.
3. @Wolf_Eye tested the entire Western Skyrim and Markarth zones' story lines and only reported two broken quests. The rest can probably be assumed to be working, or at least to only break under certain edge case conditions. That's another 20 or so achievements on the list right there.

Not mentioned in the bugs thread, but I also specifically tested the Kingmaker stuff in Wrothgar, and I had no issues there.

I'm not saying there aren't problems with questing, or that all of the quests on that list are fine. I'm just saying we shouldn't be assuming that they are all broken, and there's already been testing to say many are not broken.

There's enough to be sad about right now without adding in unverified speculation.

I agree with Silvereyes. When I did my Dark Heart of Skyrim questline test, I ONLY found the following two things messed up:

1. The Bard Quest giver at the Bard's college showed up at the Western Skyrim afterparty even though my alt couldn't complete his quest (I suspect that this might be fixed/changed with regards to them turning all museum quests to be individually tracked).
2. The final dialogue and conversation by a certain questline NPC in Blackreach does not happen at all if you've already talked to him on a prior toon. (Taking up the Mantle Achievement)

There was also the additional consideration of Melina Cassel's conversations in Markarth were not working properly, and her treating all of my characters as if they were the same person because her conversation stages were tracked specifically by the achievement itself. (But, I acknowledge that Melina Cassel is an optional side quest thing, and not part of the greater main storyline as a whole. You don't actually need to speak to her to complete the main quest).

Is it possible that I might have missed some problems during my testing? Sure, anything is possible. But as much as I dearly, dearly love these characters and desperately want them fixed, I'm not going to misrepresent the results of my test; the vast majority of the Dark Heart of Skyrim questline was, as far as I could tell, perfectly intact and working properly.

NPCs that appeared during the questline reacted to the alt appropriately and did not mention things she didn't do (like the Rivenspire questline, the Coldharbour main questline, the Unhallowed Grave quest, etc), in spite of the fact that my Main had unlocked the achievements associated with these quests prior to the test.

However, and I think this is why @tomofhyrule was listing out storyline achievements, we just don't know how many more storylines have bits and pieces missing like this. While it is not guaranteed that the list of story connected achievements are bugged or permanently altered, on the flipside we also don't have any guarantees that they will work properly either after AWA comes to the live servers. And I think that's what many people, including myself, are very concerned about; how many chunks of the world are going to go missing when this hits live?

It's a daunting task for any player to use their free time to play through entire storylines (and you can't always just rush, you'd have to pay some attention to what the NPCs are saying to make sure achievements aren't triggering different dialogue). For people like me, who don't have any EU toons, the task is doubly daunting since we'd have to play through questlines twice; once to establish achievements, and the second to test those out.

It really is something that ZOS needs to look into and the lack of communication on their end about these issues is very distressing and heartbreaking; is it intended that I must lose story bits of my fav characters permanently after only ever doing them once? I am just very depressed and saddened about this idea.

I do want to take a moment to say that I deeply appreciate all the help and support from fellow players who keep asking ZOS about this because I feel like every little bit helps. Even if you are not terribly interested in story or don't really care about these characters, I do still appreciate it. At the very least I do not have to be alone in asking ZOS for fixes and answers, and I am very, very grateful. Thank you. You are all amazing to me.

I concur that so far the Greymoor story is working properly without immersion breaking NPC shennanigans. I haven't tested the two quests mentioned here. PTS is EU and I don't have a EU account so I've had to start from scratch. I chose Greymoor because I love the Ravenwatch gang and wanted to experience it again with the exact same character I first played it on as it's her story, so I recreated her on PTS. It's also an opportunity to get screenshots I didn't get. I finished Western Skyrim (mostly main quest and a few side, not the entire zone is done). I will start Markarth tomorrow. I also made a level 3 alt who finished no quests to walk around Solitude, and there were no NPC talking among themselves about things out of order. Granted this is a DLC and these are not base game zones (those should probably be tested by many different people, but it is a volunteer endeavor). I will take that alt and ride around the Western Skyrim zone to see if the rest of the zone interacts with that character properly and nothing is said about my other character for the achievements she got. It does take a long time, especially on a new account, so I doubt I will find anything others haven't already found. I wish we had more time to test this update, I think something this massive needs more than 5 weeks of testing to really dig into every aspect that achievements touch.

Anyway, I am greatly enjoying the Greymoor story all over again. There's a lot I either forgot or missed (another reason why alts need fresh experiences and not have their version of the game world tainted by breaking the 4th wall with NPCs triggering narrative incoherence from achievements). I took lots of digital selfies with Fennorian, can't wait to take many more with Count Ravenwatch, and experience his epilogue again ;o

If you don't have an EU account (and don't have the achievements previously unlocked), then you will have to run through the entire storyline twice, because Verandis will likely appear once[ to any account that doesn't already have Taking Up the Mantle completed. After that achievement is gained and unlocked on all alts, he won't ever appear to any alts again. And yeah, it's a lot of work for one person.

on live she woke up in a prison cell with Fennorian trapped in the coffin. I really wish they kept the original DLC tutorials and let us choose which one to do instead of giving us yet another new one no one wanted when we just wanted to replay the old ones.

I will forever miss the Fennoarian tutorial ;_; It was my favorite one, I only got to play through it twice. Once on my bosmer warden, and once on my Fennorian cosplay sorc, which was pretty entertaining xD

I always miss the Vvardenfell tutorial too, it's nostalgic because it's where my first character started, way back when I didn't even know what the Elder Scrolls was or what the heck was really happening.

Just more stuff to add to the lengthening list of things I wish weren't gone.

Kelinmiriel

It occurred to me today - how did we get from "A Million Stories" to "Tamriel Once"?

I haven't forgotten. I am sad.

Bragerth

is there a new tutorial I thought going forward we would be using the same tutorial over and over with choosing which gates we go thru?

KMarble

tomofhyrule wrote: »

For the zone completion, I guess I'll just make it a point to go through every WB/dolmen/delve as soon as it pops up on the map - the icons don't show until it's discovered, so I'll just go clear them as normal as soon as I do discover them. I'd hope the weird dialogue options can get retroactively patched, and then...

A suggestion that might help you and others (and is what I plan on doing with my characters). Dolmens, delves and public dungeons in base game are associated with Undaunted, Fighters and Mages' guilds daily quests. One way to keep track of what a character have done would be to pick up those dailies instead of doing them as you come by them.

Yes, I know it isn't as immersive, but it'll make for a less convoluted spreadsheet. Bonus points are that it helps level up the associated skill lines and has a chance of dropping motif pages.

I don't know if picking up and dropping one of those dailies will allow you to get a different one instead, but if possible, you could only pick the ones that are in the zone your character is doing at that time.

Jaraal

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

It occurred to me today - how did we get from "A Million Stories" to "Tamriel Once"?

I haven't forgotten. I am sad.

It all comes down to money. They obviously don't want to invest whatever is required to keep the game intact. So they are cutting parts of the game to fit the budget. And the ironic part is, they say they are recoding the entire game next year. So we are sacrificing eight years of achievements and individual story creation and development to buy them one year of possible performant-ness.

It is sad, indeed.

SilverBride

I'm thinking about only logging on my newest character until she has completed all the map objectives (except for the quests) because my other 3 characters have completed all of these. But this would really decrease my sales with my trade guild because I rely on doing writs with all 4 of them for crafting mats, which is my main income. Also, one of them is my main furniture crafter so I couldn't make any furnishings for my houses in the mean time.

This would technically help me with this alt, although it would not help with any future alts. It also messed up my plan to go though the base zones first and complete them one by one, then start on the DLCs.

As far as my character's identities, I will just ignore achievements from now on. I will really miss having these acknowledge my accomplishments.

I'm trying to find ways to adapt but I don't know if any of this will really help.

I guess this is what they call the bargaining phase of grief.

alberichtano

KMarble wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Wait... does that mean she will never stop, even if you have finished the questline? If it goes on achievements, and it is already taken...

No. I think (haven't tested it) that Stuga will only go after the characters that haven't started the Orsinium quest. Same way as it has been since Wrothgar was introduced.

Phew, I was starting to have nightmares about a never ending Stuga!

alberichtano

Jaraal wrote: »

Put in a ticket for a refund, as the functionality will no longer represent what they advertised when the game went live and you made those purchases with the expectation of continued accessability.

It's like if you purchase an extended warranty for your car, but they repossess it... and still expect you to contine paying the warranty. It makes no sense.

I don't think that'll work though, as the TOS says that things are liable for change, but also because you have played for so and so many years already.

That means that they can go full Vader on us whenever they wish, basically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g

alberichtano

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

It occurred to me today - how did we get from "A Million Stories" to "Tamriel Once"?

I haven't forgotten. I am sad.

I think it started i good bit before AwA was announced, to be honest. The way that the Armory works is, I think, a stepping stone towards this. It allows any one character to switch easily between, well, anything. You can now have just one character and be DPS, tank and healer, werewolf and vampire and "healthy" (as it were) with stats and skills and CP all changeable with the click of a button. This makes the creation of alts far less important, and makes every alt into an "everyman". You can now do anything and everything with just one character, in one role you want. This, to me, foreshadows the loss of importance of alts, and what we are seeing now.

Kesstryl

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm thinking about only logging on my newest character until she has completed all the map objectives (except for the quests) because my other 3 characters have completed all of these. But this would really decrease my sales with my trade guild because I rely on doing writs with all 4 of them for crafting mats, which is my main income. Also, one of them is my main furniture crafter so I couldn't make any furnishings for my houses in the mean time.

This would technically help me with this alt, although it would not help with any future alts. It also messed up my plan to go though the base zones first and complete them one by one, then start on the DLCs.

As far as my character's identities, I will just ignore achievements from now on. I will really miss having these acknowledge my accomplishments.

I'm trying to find ways to adapt but I don't know if any of this will really help.

I guess this is what they call the bargaining phase of grief.

I'm in the bargaining stage too, as seen by my immense uptick in forum participation and being outspoken. In the end though there's two ways this goes with psychology, there are those who accept things as is and continue on adapting to the changes, and there are those who let go and walk away. Where I fall will depend on them and how they fix the NPC, quest, and narrative bugs this caused. I would have rather not have AwA implemented like this, and I would have rather kept my character based achievements. If the bugs get fixed, I'll become the one who accepts and adapts. If the bugs don't get fixed and the game world breaks the 4th wall, I'm going to be the one to let go and walk away. Look at it like this, I've already lost a huge thing that I valued which was my individual character information. I'll bargain that for the game still treating my alts like individual people. I'm not going to be asked to give up narrative cohension, missing quests, and a broken game world in addition to that.

alberichtano

Kesstryl wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm thinking about only logging on my newest character until she has completed all the map objectives (except for the quests) because my other 3 characters have completed all of these. But this would really decrease my sales with my trade guild because I rely on doing writs with all 4 of them for crafting mats, which is my main income. Also, one of them is my main furniture crafter so I couldn't make any furnishings for my houses in the mean time.

This would technically help me with this alt, although it would not help with any future alts. It also messed up my plan to go though the base zones first and complete them one by one, then start on the DLCs.

As far as my character's identities, I will just ignore achievements from now on. I will really miss having these acknowledge my accomplishments.

I'm trying to find ways to adapt but I don't know if any of this will really help.

I guess this is what they call the bargaining phase of grief.

I'm in the bargaining stage too, as seen by my immense uptick in forum participation and being outspoken. In the end though there's two ways this goes with psychology, there are those who accept things as is and continue on adapting to the changes, and there are those who let go and walk away. Where I fall will depend on them and how they fix the NPC, quest, and narrative bugs this caused. I would have rather not have AwA implemented like this, and I would have rather kept my character based achievements. If the bugs get fixed, I'll become the one who accepts and adapts. If the bugs don't get fixed and the game world breaks the 4th wall, I'm going to be the one to let go and walk away.

Wait, the fourth wall? How do you mean? Breaking the fourth wall is when characters in movies or theatres speak directly to the viewers!?

Kesstryl

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm thinking about only logging on my newest character until she has completed all the map objectives (except for the quests) because my other 3 characters have completed all of these. But this would really decrease my sales with my trade guild because I rely on doing writs with all 4 of them for crafting mats, which is my main income. Also, one of them is my main furniture crafter so I couldn't make any furnishings for my houses in the mean time.

This would technically help me with this alt, although it would not help with any future alts. It also messed up my plan to go though the base zones first and complete them one by one, then start on the DLCs.

As far as my character's identities, I will just ignore achievements from now on. I will really miss having these acknowledge my accomplishments.

I'm trying to find ways to adapt but I don't know if any of this will really help.

I guess this is what they call the bargaining phase of grief.

I'm in the bargaining stage too, as seen by my immense uptick in forum participation and being outspoken. In the end though there's two ways this goes with psychology, there are those who accept things as is and continue on adapting to the changes, and there are those who let go and walk away. Where I fall will depend on them and how they fix the NPC, quest, and narrative bugs this caused. I would have rather not have AwA implemented like this, and I would have rather kept my character based achievements. If the bugs get fixed, I'll become the one who accepts and adapts. If the bugs don't get fixed and the game world breaks the 4th wall, I'm going to be the one to let go and walk away.

Wait, the fourth wall? How do you mean? Breaking the fourth wall is when characters in movies or theatres speak directly to the viewers!?

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Dojohoda

Yes, the zone (maps) are messy, sloppy. Unsure if they can/will improve it since they are removing character data that isn't part of the data-mush

Tandor

alberichtano wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

It occurred to me today - how did we get from "A Million Stories" to "Tamriel Once"?

I haven't forgotten. I am sad.

I think it started i good bit before AwA was announced, to be honest. The way that the Armory works is, I think, a stepping stone towards this. It allows any one character to switch easily between, well, anything. You can now have just one character and be DPS, tank and healer, werewolf and vampire and "healthy" (as it were) with stats and skills and CP all changeable with the click of a button. This makes the creation of alts far less important, and makes every alt into an "everyman". You can now do anything and everything with just one character, in one role you want. This, to me, foreshadows the loss of importance of alts, and what we are seeing now.

[snip]

[snip]

It isn't just role-players who are non-competitive in combat terms. Only competitive players have "roles".

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings all,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, as well as keeping things civil and constructive.

Thank you for your understanding.

Elsonso

Jaraal wrote: »

It all comes down to money. They obviously don't want to invest whatever is required to keep the game intact. So they are cutting parts of the game to fit the budget. And the ironic part is, they say they are recoding the entire game next year. So we are sacrificing eight years of achievements and individual story creation and development to buy them one year of possible performant-ness.

I think it does come down to money, but not in the way that is commonly being bandied about. I think that they could have done better, but in the end, it is a tradeoff between spending on one thing, or spending on another thing. I think they got the balance wrong. I am sure that they could have done this in a more comprehensive, much less divisive, manner, but at a greater cost in both time and resources.

The truly sad part is that ZOS came down where they did at the expense of players. This time, they removed a feature and did not offer anything in return, they pitted groups of players against each other such that it was reported by a game website, and they were so stoically silent about the whole thing that it was insulting. Again. This loop would be comical, were it not so tragic. My wrap-up feedback for ZOS to ignore is to do better next time, or find people who can do better and let them do their thing.

As side note, I have seen this "rewrite" thing starting to get blown out of proportion. They are not recoding the entire game, and they are doing the work this year, not next year. They are already working on it. It is quite likely that this work is part of what prevented them from doing the achievements properly.

They are still not answering questions attempting to clarify the Q&A, so powering down. Beeeeoooop. Click.

alberichtano

Kesstryl wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm thinking about only logging on my newest character until she has completed all the map objectives (except for the quests) because my other 3 characters have completed all of these. But this would really decrease my sales with my trade guild because I rely on doing writs with all 4 of them for crafting mats, which is my main income. Also, one of them is my main furniture crafter so I couldn't make any furnishings for my houses in the mean time.

This would technically help me with this alt, although it would not help with any future alts. It also messed up my plan to go though the base zones first and complete them one by one, then start on the DLCs.

As far as my character's identities, I will just ignore achievements from now on. I will really miss having these acknowledge my accomplishments.

I'm trying to find ways to adapt but I don't know if any of this will really help.

I guess this is what they call the bargaining phase of grief.

I'm in the bargaining stage too, as seen by my immense uptick in forum participation and being outspoken. In the end though there's two ways this goes with psychology, there are those who accept things as is and continue on adapting to the changes, and there are those who let go and walk away. Where I fall will depend on them and how they fix the NPC, quest, and narrative bugs this caused. I would have rather not have AwA implemented like this, and I would have rather kept my character based achievements. If the bugs get fixed, I'll become the one who accepts and adapts. If the bugs don't get fixed and the game world breaks the 4th wall, I'm going to be the one to let go and walk away.

Wait, the fourth wall? How do you mean? Breaking the fourth wall is when characters in movies or theatres speak directly to the viewers!?

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Ah! OK, now I understand what you mean. Thanks for the explanation.

newtinmpls

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Well said. I know there are people who like to play games where it's "player" and not "character" based, but ESO hasn't been that game...

Well maybe it will be now

Jaraal

newtinmpls wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Well said. I know there are people who like to play games where it's "player" and not "character" based, but ESO hasn't been that game...

Well maybe it will be now

Character development has been the main focus of the Elder Scrolls franchise since the beginning. You were always able to start a new character and play as if you were visiting Tamriel for the first time. But this current development team will be the first to alter the formula. TES is forever losing some of it's magic, and a lot of it's shine. Story is being sacrificed for coding convenience. It would have been unfortunate, if the story was conglomerated at game launch. But it's unconscionable that we purchased the game expecting one thing and enjoying the ability to start anew all over again as we chose, but are now having that taken away.

Tandor

Jaraal wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Well said. I know there are people who like to play games where it's "player" and not "character" based, but ESO hasn't been that game...

Well maybe it will be now

Character development has been the main focus of the Elder Scrolls franchise since the beginning. You were always able to start a new character and play as if you were visiting Tamriel for the first time. But this current development team will be the first to alter the formula. TES is forever losing some of it's magic, and a lot of it's shine. Story is being sacrificed for coding convenience. It would have been unfortunate, if the story was conglomerated at game launch. But it's unconscionable that we purchased the game expecting one thing and enjoying the ability to start anew all over again as we chose, but are now having that taken away.

It's also being sacrificed for the possibility of performance improvements which those who suffer performance issues say never materialise anyway.

Jaraal

Tandor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Well the missing quests, NPC dialogue, and narrative elements being out of order for alts because of achievements makes the game address you as the player and not your alts as individual people in the game world. It breaks immersion. Alts become tools, simple avatars of you. So I consider that breaking the 4th wall.

Well said. I know there are people who like to play games where it's "player" and not "character" based, but ESO hasn't been that game...

Well maybe it will be now

Character development has been the main focus of the Elder Scrolls franchise since the beginning. You were always able to start a new character and play as if you were visiting Tamriel for the first time. But this current development team will be the first to alter the formula. TES is forever losing some of it's magic, and a lot of it's shine. Story is being sacrificed for coding convenience. It would have been unfortunate, if the story was conglomerated at game launch. But it's unconscionable that we purchased the game expecting one thing and enjoying the ability to start anew all over again as we chose, but are now having that taken away.

It's also being sacrificed for the possibility of performance improvements which those who suffer performance issues say never materialise anyway.

They did say in the Q&A that there was a possibility of performance improvements, but they said the main reason for doing it was so they could release more content to sell us. Apparently there's a data cap, and some old data has to be deleted to make room for the new data.

SilverBride

Jaraal wrote: »

They did say in the Q&A that there was a possibility of performance improvements, but they said the main reason for doing it was so they could release more content to sell us. Apparently there's a data cap, and some old data has to be deleted to make room for the new data.

I'd much prefer they delete the card game and leave my characters' histories intact.

tomofhyrule

silvereyes wrote: »

So, while I was working on my addon to make zone completion work like it does on live, I noticed that icons on the map weren't flipping from black to white when completed. This is with all addons turned off:


You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character.

This seems like a bug to me, and it makes me wonder if the whole thing is working as intended or not. @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_Kevin, could we please get confirmation one way or another on if dolmens, delves and world boss tracking is working as intended on maps? I would much prefer to not waste hours and hours on an addon that will be rendered obsolete in the coming weeks by an official fix.

I finally got home and went to try it, but I can't replicate this.

I got one brand new character to go to the Roots of Silvenar delve (I have no EU characters, so it's essentially a new account). He did it and I got the achievement and the marker turned white.


On a second character, it is labelled as 'complete' for them even though they've never been to Malabal. The second character also does not have the nearest wayshrine unlocked.

One thing I did notice on Live though - a new character doing something, even if it doesn't pop an achievement by itself - did still get a 'completed' popup. Here's my secondary just finishing a dolmen in Glenumbra.


Now the only achievement for dolmens is the conglomerate one, so there has to be some trigger for this popup, right? If ZOS kept that trigger intact, they could just change the map marker color flip to that and that'd keep the utility as is on live.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

They did say in the Q&A that there was a possibility of performance improvements, but they said the main reason for doing it was so they could release more content to sell us. Apparently there's a data cap, and some old data has to be deleted to make room for the new data.

I'd much prefer they delete the card game and leave my characters' histories intact.

That would be nice, but they must feel that the profit from selling the card game will outweigh the loss from lost subscriptions and decreased crown sales from losing long time customers.