PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Caroloces

No the assessment was good, I WANT to use multiple characters depending on the situation and or how I want to play at a specific time saying one group can just use one character is pointless you could also say that there would be nothing wrong with AwA because the people against it can just have a single character and avoid that problem.

You make a good point, and you're correct. Thanks!

kind_hero

So... after 1600+ comments in this thread, we only get an update regarding museum achievements in 7.3.3?

That's all?

This year ESO is at its lowest for me since launch. Even though I like the Breton theme (and am waiting for it for a long time), I wasn't impressed with the little isle presented, feels more like a DLC than a big chapter like Morrowind, then the card game, and now seeing how this topic is handled makes me very disappointed, because losing the history of achievements is not something that I can let go so easy.

This achievements merge... for me is almost as deleting a char that I like. Yeah, I keep the main, I've done all that with the main, but the alt is empty, the alt doesn't have their own achievements. So, it's like losing a few chars with this patch/dlc. And without any real communication over the issue, feels so cold. It is very hard to believe you guys when you talk about the community in streams, it really is, I do not feel any connection, that you care about the players, more like you care about the number of the players instead. We might have different views on how the game should evolve, and I accept that, but at least have some CMs come forward and discuss about what you want to do further. It is frustrating to see that moderators are so active in this thread, so it is read, but at the same time, there is silence from the devs on the most active topic in the PTS forums.

silvereyes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Here's a question to test for our EU friends now that they've done this:

Do you have a museum achievement where one character got it and another didn't? If you've logged into PTS last week, that achievement should have popped for your account, even on the character that didn't get it. If you first log on this week, character B should still have the achievement locked.

So what if you take your account that logged in last week and noticed that B got it account-wide, and now log on this week. Does 'B' still have it?

I don't think they recopied the server, so progress should have been consistent across both weeks. But if B had it last week (because of account) and not this week and they can now go find the parts, that suggests that the character progress is still stored, even if we can't see it.
...which means at least for PC friends, someone may be able to get an addon to see that progress again.

They completely reset the achievement objectives ... leaving my test character in an inconsistent state on PTS.


Sorry, but this was some manual database operation on the achievement id. Doesn't look like any sort of elegant rebuild of the achievement based on some hidden character-scoped achievement data that was being tracked before.

Edit: an interesting note: all the other instruments are now gone from the museum, though I collected all but one on the pictured character on PTS last week. So the first instrument is being placed by the completion of a quest, and the rest appear to be associated with the achievement objectives.

Edit 2: The one new character that I created last week that couldn't start the Bards College quest after I completed it on the other characters can now pick up the quest.

The characters that completed the quest line last week all show only a single instrument (Petraloop) in the museum, and none of them have the achievement, but Leiborn is located for them in the amphitheater out back and says "You have done the Bards College a great service."

Even if this is a unique situation due to the retcon on PTS, this is still a prime example of what people mean when they say the change is destructive. If you try to back out without the backing data, things get weird.

Treeshka

First of all i am writing this comment as a one character only player and also a player who has completed every achievement before The Reach zone come out and still completing every single one.

I have never created a character that i played seriously so i can say that this account wide achievements things are nothing new for me since if you strictly play with one character, your whole achievements becomes account wide.

I would like to point out some issues with the system with his new system. Firstly the new system deletes other character's progression since they have stated that the new system only registers the achievements of the first character you load after the patch. Lets say if you get Mountain God achievement on your main character, and now you do not need to on your other characters. This is good in theory but since the new system does not give way to track other character's progression if you had got the achievement on your other characters, that data gets overwritten. This system is bad for people who have completed that achievement on their other characters because the only way to proof that they got the achievement on their character too will be gone. I have seen a guy who completed all achievements in the game with his two characters so imagine their hard work getting deleted like this.

I think they should make the achievement tooltip show every character who achieved the thing. Like if two character of mine achieved the Mountain God achievement, it should show it in tooltip. But this solution does not help with the idea of collecting every achievement on one character or account. Since if tooltips of the achievements states different characters one might want to get all achievements on that character too since they can proof their accomplishment or simply for the sake of completing it.

For this situation they may remove this achieved by tooltip thing all together, and avoid everything that might come up with it. I personally wonder what would happen if i change the name of my only character after registering every achievement until to this update. But this surely will kill the dungeons and trial contents in my opinion but not the questing and other zone content stuff. Since i believe this system does not copy our completed quests to the other characters.

Vrienda

The Museum change is a good one at first glance (Need to test it myself, it's possible something may still be broken).

Could you maybe grant delves, dolmens and world bosses the same treatment until you find your more 'elegant solution'?

Likewise for achievements related to a specific quest/random encounter that could trigger an inappropriately earned dialogue line.

renne

silvereyes wrote: »

renne wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

How do you know you've successfully gotten a trifecta if you've earned it once on another toon?
What, we have to manually start setting stop watches?
The new norm is, "I think I did it? Oh well, close enough" *pats self on back*

It's weak. It's a shadow of its former self.

And yes, once I've gotten all the achievements I would stop playing a game....
Then create a new character and start all over again. Fresh. Nothing carried over.

...People already use stop watches, though?

This is such a weird thing to bring up, considering 2/3rd of the platforms don't have mods to tell them times, when to push the buttons on what skills, etc. Maybe consider looking at the vanilla game to remember what is actually the game and isn't mods, because the base game doesn't do ANYTHING to tell you the time of your speedrun while you're doing it in any location there is a speedrun.

Nobody was talking about tracking elapsed time during the fight. You are tilting at windmills here.

Then what do stopwatches have to do with it otherwise? [snip] explain what other use stop watches have while doing a trifecta on anotehr toon, if not to track for the speed run achievement?

[edited for minor baiting]

We were talking about how self-motivation and a number on a stopwatch aren't as motivating as an official achievement popup from the game.

Think of it like this. In the US, we have this thing in primary school called the, "Presidential Fitness Award," an achievement-like system that attempts to motivate children to do their best in physical education class. One of the criteria for getting the award is to run a mile in under 7 minutes. Nobody except the instructor is out there with their own stopwatches. The ones that care just do their best, move as efficiently and consistently as possible, and hopefully when the get to the end, they've met the criteria and get the award.

ZOS removing speed run achievement popups for second characters would be like removing the teacher and the award from this scenario. Sure, there might be a handful of kids that are self-motivated enough to remember the award from last year and want to challenge themselves to do it again and bring their own equipment, but they would be in the vast minority. Without the award at the end, most people just won't care enough to bother.

Then they were talking about "tracking elapsed time during the fight". Why say that they weren't and then accuse ME of "tilting at windmills" when it is exactly what they were talking about.

SilverBride

So they made museum pieces per character and that is a big step in the right direction. But what about not having our maps complete until that particular character has completed the objective themselves?

Is there a reason why they can't track character progress separate from account progress?

[Edited for clarity]

KMarble

I'd like to highlight the fact that time is running out. Update 33 will be available for PC on March 14th. This is the second week of PTS mirroring the EU server and we've had a total of two (2) issues addressed and "fixed".

It took the devs a whole year to fix the dual mount issue. I'm not saying it was something simple to fix, but it was a very specific situation. Again I ask, how many different issues are not being talked about because no one checked to see if there are problems?

ZOS put themselves in a very awkward position. If they postpone, the people who want AWA will be upset, if they don't, the people who don't want AWA/want it implemented in a proper way will be upset. ZOS loses either way. We, the players, lose either way.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'd also like to address the few people saying that I can still play the game the same way I've been doing so far. Thing is, I cannot. There are major issues all throughout the game that (IMO) should take precedence over AWA and have not been addressed. Just as an example, the other day I saw a thread where they mention that the final fight in Greymoor is still bugged.

I cannot do the Craglorn trials anymore because as soon as I enter combat everything but light attacks get locked. No, it isn't lag or anything like it. Once I leave combat I see all the skills that were pushed fire one after the other. I'm not the only one experiencing this either. The last time I was in CR another group member had the same happen to them. They were told to open the CP window to fix it. The conversation ended with the person who suggested the "solution" saying this bug had been in game so long that most people just do it without even thinking.

For the past few months heavy attack with a lightning staff, bow and healing staff has been bugged. There are multiple threads about this in the forum. Yet it isn't being addressed.

I'm able - until March 14th - to distract myself from the things I can't do anymore (and wait until the get fixed) by playing the simple, "easy" stuff on different characters. Many of those quests will be broken come March 14th.

Should I just sit around and hope that they eventually fix Every. Single. Broken thing that AWA will introduce? Keep my fingers crossed that they will not just delete what will soon become unnecessary databases and that they'll come to their senses and create a more reasonable version of AWA in the future?

Meanwhile, two queens occupy the throne in Rimmen. It kind of paints a very good picture of what the game will become in March.

tomofhyrule

silvereyes wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Here's a question to test for our EU friends now that they've done this:

Do you have a museum achievement where one character got it and another didn't? If you've logged into PTS last week, that achievement should have popped for your account, even on the character that didn't get it. If you first log on this week, character B should still have the achievement locked.

So what if you take your account that logged in last week and noticed that B got it account-wide, and now log on this week. Does 'B' still have it?

I don't think they recopied the server, so progress should have been consistent across both weeks. But if B had it last week (because of account) and not this week and they can now go find the parts, that suggests that the character progress is still stored, even if we can't see it.
...which means at least for PC friends, someone may be able to get an addon to see that progress again.

They completely reset the achievement objectives ... leaving my test character in an inconsistent state on PTS.


Sorry, but this was some manual database operation on the achievement id. Doesn't look like any sort of elegant rebuild of the achievement based on some hidden character-scoped achievement data that was being tracked before.

Edit: an interesting note: all the other instruments are now gone from the museum, though I collected all but one on the pictured character on PTS last week. So the first instrument is being placed by the completion of a quest, and the rest appear to be associated with the achievement objectives.

Edit 2: The one new character that I created last week that couldn't start the Bards College quest after I completed it on the other characters can now pick up the quest.

The characters that completed the quest line last week all show only a single instrument (Petraloop) in the museum, and none of them have the achievement, but Leiborn is located for them in the amphitheater out back and says "You have done the Bards College a great service."

Even if this is a unique situation due to the retcon on PTS, this is still a prime example of what people mean when they say the change is destructive. If you try to back out without the backing data, things get weird.

Thank you for testing that.

That to me suggests that this change is completely destructive, and why ZOS should absolutely consider delaying account-wide achievements to find a more elegant solution.

Sure, things can be modified later or fixed to make it work better after the fact (see the highly unpopular change of swapping Rapids and Vigor, which was mitigated and improved by moving Major Gallop to a passive skill). But if AwA rolls out in its current form and then something like this is found, there will be no way to reset it. At all. The character data is gone.

As it is now, any players who opened a character on PTS last week and now this week had the items reset. Now is that character able to redo the quest to get Petraloop? Or are they now permanently locked out of that achievement because of the reset?

Imagine if this went live and then we found this. Then the entire playerbase will be stuck with a bugged achievement/quest, since the only fix would be to roll the servers back to before the achievements went account-wide to see which character had what. Either that, or they'd have to do a global reset of that quest/achievement (like we had for the CP reset due to the Armory bug) and make us all redo the quest or task to get it. Can you imagine the outcry if they had to reset a difficult achievement like a trifecta?

Please, ZOS, please listen to some of the concerns in this thread. We aren't against the idea of AwA, we just want to avoid losing our characters' history without anything else in its place to save it. And now, we want to make sure that that data doesn't end up getting irretrievably destroyed and introducing way more problems than it solves.

Again, I'm not against AwA, I'm only against the destruction of our only source of character progress.

Wolfkeks

Did we have the Q&A already? I don't anything on the dev tracker 😄

Sheepzy

Please ZOS, please delay the rollout of AwA until a proper system of character tracking can be introduced alongside it. Take the time to look at the feedback, fix the bugs and make a system that all but a tiny majority are happy with.

There is no shame in pulling a feature temporarily. For example, turning back because of the weather on a mountain is the brave thing to do. Contiuning onwards in the face of a storm because of sheer stubborness is bound to lead to disaster.

Most people here appear to be in favour of AwA, just with a bit more time to implement it without destroying the way they play the game. There is enough rubbish going on in the world and people come here to escape. Why ruin there escapism? For what?!

Mephit

Ok ZOS, you win. My last day of ESO+ is tomorrow and I guess I’m out.

I’ll log back in on launch day cos world chat will be sad / fun.

You should be ashamed.

Tandor

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Did we have the Q&A already? I don't anything on the dev tracker 😄

No sign of it, I'm afraid. Nor of any kind of communication outside of the patch notes and forum moderation.

Araneae6537

Totally agree, @kind_hero

That’s it???

This achievement merging is totally unacceptable when it destroys the only means of tracking character progression and ruins quest replay-ability and NPC interaction with individual characters.

Until now we’ve been able to play characters how we want, explore the world anew each time, complete quests and achievements or not (and for many of us, what we don’t do on particular characters is as important as what we do) and enjoy the extra sense of accomplishment for doing something anew, little things like holiday achievements and delve completion to larger ones in dungeons, trials and PvP. I thought it a pretty good balance between account and character in that dyes, collectibles, etc. were unlocked for the account (I can see both sides regarding titles and have no strong opinion on it myself).

There were things that could be improved such as grindy x of y achievements, RNG monster trophies and I am sympathetic to those who want to be able to work toward things across alts or switch mains or have all titles on one character, etc. A QoL would have ADDED to what we have — additional features or options — and not take away features and things people have worked for and made choices around over the past eight years.

But now this horrid cobbled AWA is dropped on us and after WEEKS very little fixed and even less communication. Those surveys were sent out too soon; I have gone from feeling very positive overall at the beginning of the year to an all time low and am considering not continuing ESO+ for the first time since I started playing the game. Previous decisions that I haven’t liked have been just aspects of the game and I could always focus on what I did enjoy, but this feels like a negation of the heart of the game for me and many others — our characters. And for what???

Suck out our characters’ souls and congeal them in a cage of azure plasm and hang it in Coldharbour.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

With the museum quest fixed(the remaining problem seems to be tied to the unlocking and then relocking of these acheivements wich wont happen on launch) the only thing left is to make the map and zone guide work propely (not auto turn white) and it will be awesome
Sure everyone wont be happy but now zos will anger someone no matter what they do

tmbrinks

Another week, no new communication, no meaningful changes/adjustments, only fixes for 1 of about 30 bugs introduced with the change.

So glad my writ character will have the Godslayer achievement, when they most ferocious thing they've killed might have been a critter by accident while doing writs.

What a way to see 8 years of history and gameplay go down the tubes for all my alts who were working on their own dungeon trifectas, who were working on getting my 6th and 7th Grand Master Crafters, who was working on a 3rd Master Angler.

I've already spoken with my wallet.

KMarble

Wolfkeks wrote: »

Did we have the Q&A already? I don't anything on the dev tracker 😄

I have a sinking feeling that we'll only see this Q&A at the 11th hour.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

With the museum quest fixed(the remaining problem seems to be tied to the unlocking and then relocking of these acheivements wich wont happen on launch) the only thing left is to make the map and zone guide work propely (not auto turn white) and it will be awesome
Sure everyone wont be happy but now zos will anger someone no matter what they do

No that is not the only thing left and no it won't be awesome.
It still doesn't address the "Individuality" of our charters.
It doesn't stop the fact that my "lawful good" Templar is now achieved with Murderer achievement.
This doesn't address the "Play Like You Want" mantra of ZoS when we won't be able to do that after AwA goes live in it's present state.
There are more RPG issues at play besides the quest rewards and map completions.

tomofhyrule

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

With the museum quest fixed(the remaining problem seems to be tied to the unlocking and then relocking of these acheivements wich wont happen on launch) the only thing left is to make the map and zone guide work propely (not auto turn white) and it will be awesome
Sure everyone wont be happy but now zos will anger someone no matter what they do

Can you guarantee that there won't be another issue like the museums that none of us have found yet? How will ZOS fix it then? There won't be any character data to recopy over, which means that their only choices are to reset the quest/task for the entire server or roll back the servers all the way to the U33 patch.

How would you feel if you logged on one day and you got a system message - "Because of an issue with achievements, all characters need to redo the Main Quest from the beginning."

Wouldn't it be prudent to make sure there was a failsafe in place first? Because once they pull the trigger on this, that'll be the reality.

silvereyes

Vrienda wrote: »

Wouldn't it be prudent to make sure there was a failsafe in place first? Because once they pull the trigger on this, that'll be the reality.

So much this. I think a failsafe / continued logging of character achievement progress, even if it isn't displayed, is the number one priority, even before fixing bugs.

Sure, it's going to be a PR nightmare no matter what they do at this point, but knowing that the data isn't gone forever is going to go way further towards preventing a mass exodus on day one than even fixing zone guide completion. If the data is still there, the rest can be fixed in incremental patches, and a better character journal / separate tab / whatever can be built in a future Update. But once the tracking is gone, people will bolt, and a good many forever.

TPishek

Instead of making the museum achievements character specific, can we just have the music boxes and robot parse dummy put into an achievement vendor for an exorbitant amount of gold instead? Give us a free one after getting the achievement the first time, but let us just buy extras instead of keeping this grindy system in place.

OleandersOne

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

With the museum quest fixed(the remaining problem seems to be tied to the unlocking and then relocking of these acheivements wich wont happen on launch) the only thing left is to make the map and zone guide work propely (not auto turn white) and it will be awesome
Sure everyone wont be happy but now zos will anger someone no matter what they do

That's simply inaccurate. There was an entire list put together pages ago (maybe SilverEyes? I'm forgetting) of other problems such as some non-quest NPCs with recurrent dialogue have all that suppressed until the last, etc.

silvereyes

TPishek wrote: »

Instead of making the museum achievements character specific, can we just have the music boxes and robot parse dummy put into an achievement vendor for an exorbitant amount of gold instead? Give us a free one after getting the achievement the first time, but let us just buy extras instead of keeping this grindy system in place.

I think a lot of people like those grindy quests.

Still, I like the idea of letting people buy multiples on the achievement vendor for gold after the first time it's collected.

Wolfpaw

silvereyes wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

Instead of making the museum achievements character specific, can we just have the music boxes and robot parse dummy put into an achievement vendor for an exorbitant amount of gold instead? Give us a free one after getting the achievement the first time, but let us just buy extras instead of keeping this grindy system in place.

I think a lot of people like those grindy quests.

Still, I like the idea of letting people buy multiples on the achievement vendor for gold after the first time it's collected.

No time to scrap and work on some new AWA system like that imo. ZOS has bigger fish to fry this year like Cyrodiil performance updates/events (now that they know the problems to be fixed), year long releases, & 2023 content.

matterandstuff

Elsonso wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I’ve already left. I logged in once, for a couple seconds, since the first PTS patch. I logged into EU to delete all my characters there. NA characters still exist but I won’t play any of them because I’m not letting this implementation of AwA touch any of my characters. ESO+ has been canceled.

I was talking with my partner about how long I’ve been playing and breaks I’ve taken. I wanted to check on when a character had been started and then gotten one specific achievement. With how AwA is implemented, I will no longer be able to see any of this. For any character.

Too soon to burn bridges. Set the charges and ready the orbital nukes, sure, but too soon to press the button. ZOS still has some time to abort landing and go around. Not much time, and I don't expect that they will, but they do have to be given the chance.

This is about where I'm at, but lord, those patch notes (and the fact even the museum quests are still not entirely fixed) are not promising. The still-broken aspects highlight the reality that the underlying architecture needed substantial work to pull this off properly - like the "okay, this is unworkable at present, let's take a year and come back" approach taken with dual-player mounts - and ZOS has zero interest in doing it.

Basically everyone I talk to in this game who hasn't been following the PTS implementation is like "lord, ZOS could never be so stupid as to implement autocompletion of delves and bosses and allow it to go live, surely it'll be like when combat has been broken on the PTS and it's turned up fixed on live server instead", and it's increasingly clear that their response is going to be "haha, watch us".

I will wait and see, but I'm fully expecting to delete the game and cancel ESO+ on Update 33 launch day - and then sit back with some popcorn at the global reaction to this fiasco. Every time ZOS does something controversial, it's common to see responses of "oh but the casual players won't notice" - but unless something drastically changes between now and Update 33 going live, ZOS have stuffed it so badly on something so fundamental that they can't not.

silvereyes

Wolfpaw wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

Instead of making the museum achievements character specific, can we just have the music boxes and robot parse dummy put into an achievement vendor for an exorbitant amount of gold instead? Give us a free one after getting the achievement the first time, but let us just buy extras instead of keeping this grindy system in place.

I think a lot of people like those grindy quests.

Still, I like the idea of letting people buy multiples on the achievement vendor for gold after the first time it's collected.

No time to scrap and work on some new AWA system like that imo. ZOS has bigger fish to fry this year like Cyrodiil performance updates/events (now that they know the problems to be fixed), year long releases, & 2023 content.

There's still three weeks left until launch one week more of significant PTS fixes. There's a small an almost nonexistent chance ZOS could pull a rabbit out of their hat and make some sort of hybrid system before that time, if they already started on it right away at the beginning of PTS. I remember them surprising everyone when Crown Crates were on PTS and they rolled out Crown Gems in one of the later PTS incremental cycles.

If they haven't started yet, then I'm not sure what the best option left would be. For ZOS and the player base as a community, none of the remaining options are very palatable.

When faced with scope changes discovered this late in a project, software project managers usually have four options:

1. Cut functionality. This is like what they have done with museum quests. There's a lot that could be cut, in my opinion, that would still preserve the heart of AwA while preserving character identity as well, but it would likely still leave a lot of people mad. It might still work as a stopgap measure, though, until a later Update that provides a truly hybrid system.
2. Delay launch. This is usually a really hard sell to upper management, both for PR purposes, as well as resource planning purposes, as you mentioned. The developers are needed for other planned work in the pipeline (e.g. High Isle chapter, performance / architecture rewrite, etc.)
3. Go forward with a product that doesn't meet expectations, and just deal with the consequences. I would really hope that, at a minimum, they would keep logging character achievement data in the background so that they have the option to add better character identity features and replay rewards in a future Update. But who knows? They may just put the "deal with it" glasses on one more time and make a bunch of people sad.
4. Crunch the developers. Make them work insane schedules to implement far more work in less time. This is unsustainable, and can often lead to burn-out and talented developers leaving if you do it too often. I really hope they aren't requiring developers to work 100 hour weeks right now, both for their sake, and the sake of the longevity of the game.

Unfortunately, based on past experience, I think ZOS will probably choose option 3 in any case. My preference is for option 1, since they've already proven that they can do that in a short time.

Edit: Fixed the amount of time left, taking Stadia certification time into account.

Wolf_Eye

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

With the museum quest fixed(the remaining problem seems to be tied to the unlocking and then relocking of these acheivements wich wont happen on launch) the only thing left is to make the map and zone guide work propely (not auto turn white) and it will be awesome
Sure everyone wont be happy but now zos will anger someone no matter what they do

Can you guarantee that there won't be another issue like the museums that none of us have found yet? How will ZOS fix it then? There won't be any character data to recopy over, which means that their only choices are to reset the quest/task for the entire server or roll back the servers all the way to the U33 patch.

How would you feel if you logged on one day and you got a system message - "Because of an issue with achievements, all characters need to redo the Main Quest from the beginning."

Wouldn't it be prudent to make sure there was a failsafe in place first? Because once they pull the trigger on this, that'll be the reality.

I don't think they fixed Melina Cassel or the Adoring Fan or that one NPC at the end of the Markarth epilogue (spoilers) giving his final thoughts. They don't mention these things anywhere, and I deeply suspect there are plenty of other NPC dialogues attached the achievement system lurking that haven't been discovered.

Fennwitty

This is maybe the most replied to thread in PTS?

It has to be up there.

Worth verifying if this issue is the biggest one the community cares about one way or another that it's done well.

silvereyes

Fennwitty wrote: »

This is maybe the most replied to thread in PTS?

It has to be up there.

Not yet, but it's on track. We're coming for you, Feburary 2016 "Feedback Thread on Templars"!

Wolf_Eye

silvereyes wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

This is maybe the most replied to thread in PTS?

It has to be up there.

Not yet, but it's on track. We're coming for you, Feburary 2016 "Feedback Thread on Templars"!

I'm actually very impressed you have which thread has the most comments memorized.