PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

jle30303

Here are things that are of ABSOLUTE importance:

If something grants a skill point to a character, then other characters MUST BE ABLE TO REDO IT SEPARATELY. From a start point of the game recognising that this specific character has NOT DONE IT.

This applies to zone quests, side quests, public dungeon quests, group dungeon quests.

We cannot have a situation where a person has completed a public dungeon or a group dungeon once on a particular given character and gained the skill point for it, and as a result, ALL his other characters are now permanently one skill point short - for each and every dungeon.

And we cannot have a situation where completing a series of quests for one character then prevents the other character completing that series of quests. Especially if they give skill points. I mean, look how many skill points are quest-dependent. Anywhere from 6-9 in smaller DLC content (and usually 2 from skyshards). Usually 3 in larger Chapter content (but many more from skyshards because larger areas mean more skyshards).

Likewise, indeed, getting a skyshard on one character should not make it "automatically discovered" on another.

HumbleThaumaturge

Jaraal wrote: »

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

I did not have these experiences on the test server (PTS) after the patch.

I had previously logged-on all 18 characters, starting with my "main" then logging-on in order top to bottom. I then deleted 1 character and created a new (level 3) character.

After uploading the latest PTS patch, there was no need to re-log all characters, as account-wide achievements had not changed from before the patch.
- Titles: I logged-on 2 characters who had not personally earned the "Emperor" achievement. Before and after the patch, they are able to display the "Former Emperor" title.
- Quest givers: I logged the new (level 3) character and went to the Bards College Western Skyrim. Before and after the patch, all of the musical instruments are already on display, and the quest-giver will not give the new player the quest (since the new player has the shared account-wide achievement already). Also, the musical instruments are no longer found in the environment.
- Some quest-givers are based on programming "flags" other than achievements? For example, even though my new character shows all group dungeons completed, I can still get the first-time quest for the group dungeon. Same for public dungeons, the account-wide achievements show completed, but the new character can still get the public dungeon quest.
- On Map, delves and dolmen and world bosses show completed when discovered, even when a character has not personally completed them (a new character is born with the account-wide achievements for these). In contrast, group dungeons and public dungeons show un-completed when discovered by a new character, even when the new character has the account-wide achievement.

silvereyes

jle30303 wrote: »

Here are things that are of ABSOLUTE importance:

If something grants a skill point to a character, then other characters MUST BE ABLE TO REDO IT SEPARATELY. From a start point of the game recognising that this specific character has NOT DONE IT.

This applies to zone quests, side quests, public dungeon quests, group dungeon quests.

We cannot have a situation where a person has completed a public dungeon or a group dungeon once on a particular given character and gained the skill point for it, and as a result, ALL his other characters are now permanently one skill point short - for each and every dungeon.

And we cannot have a situation where completing a series of quests for one character then prevents the other character completing that series of quests. Especially if they give skill points. I mean, look how many skill points are quest-dependent. Anywhere from 6-9 in smaller DLC content (and usually 2 from skyshards). Usually 3 in larger Chapter content (but many more from skyshards because larger areas mean more skyshards).

Likewise, indeed, getting a skyshard on one character should not make it "automatically discovered" on another.

Public dungeons, group dungeons and skyshards have all been tested to work the same as on live in terms of replayability. The only difference is that you can only get instanced dungeon achievements once, and those achievements no longer progress a character's Undaunted reputation, although the instanced dungeon quests now yield 10 Undaunted reputation, which corresponds to the rep from the dungeon quest achievements on live. Undaunted pledges / dailies are supposed to be giving more reputation on PTS compared to live to compensate, but that seemed to be bugged in week 1. I haven't re-tested since yesterday's patch dropped.

Public dungeon group event achievements are also still tracked at the character level and yield skill points for alts, as does Maelstrom Arena.

There have been reports of Elsweyr zone story quests not having repeatable skill points, so that seems like a bug to me.

Giraffon

I really don't like what they are doing here. Everyone plays this game differently. If you can give people a feature without taking things away from other players than great, but what is happening here is really heartbreaking. Some of these folks were just happily cranking along "Playing how you want to play" and then something like this happens. Where is your empathy? There is some real disrespect going on here at a very human level.

AlnilamE

IronWooshu wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

Oh they don't care, they made this change in mind thinking you will still all play and they know better than you do. I can guarantee it.

I mean, they certainly know I cancelled my ESO+ for the first time since launch. It runs out in early April, so we'll see what happens.

I had a number of fun projects I was working on, including leveling a character on the EU server, but this change casts a dark shadow over the entire ESO experience, so I may just stop logging in and play other games.

Jaraal

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

Log in to each character to add their acheivement to the accound wide ''pool''
You will see character b achievement on character A only after you have loged in on character B in the first place

Just like when they added set reconstruction you had to log in to each alt to add their set to the list

So what happens if I (like most players) don't play certain characters for weeks, months, years at a time? The data will remain incomplete? The recently played characters' achievements will add up while the others keep their original data?

Sounds like a mess, TBH.

wolfie1.0.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Edit
I would also like to add that we dont know of their future plan, they could be using this chage as the foundation to implement chross character acheivement like complete x acheivement on y number of class/ characters or reward at some treshold of acheivement point

So I have to compromise 75% of my progression and 6 years of gamplay? Thousands of hours and crowns in characters and character slots?

How exactly is this a fair deal?

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

Log in to each character to add their acheivement to the accound wide ''pool''
You will see character b achievement on character A only after you have loged in on character B in the first place

Just like when they added set reconstruction you had to log in to each alt to add their set to the list

So what happens if I (like most players) don't play certain characters for weeks, months, years at a time? The data will remain incomplete? The recently played characters' achievements will add up while the others keep their original data?

Sounds like a mess, TBH.

Yes. I don't know why they are merging things at character load time instead of ahead of time in a batch or at login time. If I had to guess, doing it all at once in a giant database operation would require too much downtime on patch day, and doing it at login time may not be technically feasible. This is the same way they handle things like Crown Store unlocks for skyshards and skill lines, one character at a time.

Saieden

AlnilamE wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

Oh they don't care, they made this change in mind thinking you will still all play and they know better than you do. I can guarantee it.

I mean, they certainly know I cancelled my ESO+ for the first time since launch. It runs out in early April, so we'll see what happens.

I had a number of fun projects I was working on, including leveling a character on the EU server, but this change casts a dark shadow over the entire ESO experience, so I may just stop logging in and play other games.

The number of that will share this sentiment if it goes live like this is being severely underestimated imo. And right around the time another MMO is about to be released that is both highly anticipated, looks very enticing if the trailer is anything to go by, and is clearly not going to be a broken mess on release like the last one.

wolfie1.0.

@ZOS_Kevin

It's not a matter of confusion as to what you are doing. There is confusion as to exactly WHY you are doing it and HOW it's happening. This is poorly designed and set up to erase everything I have and am working towards.

But if you are moving forward then give us better ways to track quests and other items. Your choices on what does and doesn't get tracked on a character level is annoyingly poorly thought out.

This is not a "play how you want" feature which is a mantra that was just tossed at us in the recent reveal.

It's frustrating that you wait until just before an update to tell us that such high scope changes are coming. And then only give us weeks to prepare.

Jaraal

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Edit
I would also like to add that we dont know of their future plan, they could be using this chage as the foundation to implement chross character acheivement like complete x acheivement on y number of class/ characters or reward at some treshold of acheivement point

So I have to compromise 75% of my progression and 6 years of gamplay? Thousands of hours and crowns in characters and character slots?

How exactly is this a fair deal?

It's not. But they don't care about that. All that time, effort, and money wil soon become irrelevent.... because somebody thought it was a good idea to make the game into something it wasn't originally intended to be.

It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out. Everybody thinks that they can do a better job than those who came before, and it hurts continuity when everything is being changed for the sake of change. Of course, it's up to us as players to decide if it's worth sticking around for or not. It's not like there are a lot of better options currently out there. However, I don't think I've ever seen such a drastic game change that has players using terms like "disgusted", "disrespected", "sick to my stomach", etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

KhajiitLivesMatter

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

It's not a matter of confusion as to what you are doing. There is confusion as to exactly WHY you are doing it and HOW it's happening. This is poorly designed and set up to erase everything I have and am working towards.

But if you are moving forward then give us better ways to track quests and other items. Your choices on what does and doesn't get tracked on a character level is annoyingly poorly thought out.

This is not a "play how you want" feature which is a mantra that was just tossed at us in the recent reveal.

It's frustrating that you wait until just before an update to tell us that such high scope changes are coming. And then only give us weeks to prepare.

this system is exactly how u want cause u get rewared for playing a lot of diffrent chars doing completly diffrent things - u get encouraged to try new stuff like a healer or tank cause even if u dont like it u still get rewarded the achievments to the char u choose to continue playing

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Parasaurolophus

Please stop speaking for everyone.
"This game will lose replay value", "all veteran players will leave", "why new characters are needed" and so on. We have explained why this is not the case. It's really sad that this is such a tragedy for you. But there are not a few of those for whom it is a tragedy to receive achievements past the general progress.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Edit
I would also like to add that we dont know of their future plan, they could be using this chage as the foundation to implement chross character acheivement like complete x acheivement on y number of class/ characters or reward at some treshold of acheivement point

So I have to compromise 75% of my progression and 6 years of gamplay? Thousands of hours and crowns in characters and character slots?

How exactly is this a fair deal?

Thats exactly why i keep saying that a opt in/out is the best option as it would keep everyone happy

TiaFrye

Jaraal wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Edit
I would also like to add that we dont know of their future plan, they could be using this chage as the foundation to implement chross character acheivement like complete x acheivement on y number of class/ characters or reward at some treshold of acheivement point

So I have to compromise 75% of my progression and 6 years of gamplay? Thousands of hours and crowns in characters and character slots?

How exactly is this a fair deal?

It's not. But they don't care about that. All that time, effort, and money wil soon become irrelevent.... because somebody thought it was a good idea to make the game into something it wasn't originally intended to be.

It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out. Everybody thinks that they can do a better job than those who came before, and it hurts continuity when everything is being changed for the sake of change. Of course, it's up to us as players to decide if it's worth sticking around for or not. It's not like there are a lot of better options currently out there. However, I don't think I've ever seen such a drastic game change that has players using terms like "disgusted", "disrespected", "sick to my stomach", etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

"It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out". Yeah, that's why I keep seeing dev people on the front celebrating their 10th and bigger anniversaries working on this game.
Please stop spreading misinformation just because you are salty.

Elsonso

TiaFrye wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out. Everybody thinks that they can do a better job than those who came before, and it hurts continuity when everything is being changed for the sake of change. Of course, it's up to us as players to decide if it's worth sticking around for or not. It's not like there are a lot of better options currently out there. However, I don't think I've ever seen such a drastic game change that has players using terms like "disgusted", "disrespected", "sick to my stomach", etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

"It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out". Yeah, that's why I keep seeing dev people on the front celebrating their 10th and bigger anniversaries working on this game.
Please stop spreading misinformation just because you are salty.

It is not a completely false statement, though. The original creative director was Paul Sage, and he is the one that laid down the original creative vision for the game. Shortly before launch, he left and Rich Lambert took his place, and the game started to reflect his vision for the game.

Now, I won't say that the current situation is because of any change in vision. I can't say that because I really don't know what all is driving this change. My gut instinct is that it is more than just a few streamers who have been pressuring Rich/ZOS, coupled with people campaigning in here. For a change like this, as it exists on PTS, there is more to it.

HumbleThaumaturge

I once heard a gaming psychologist talk about the psychological motivations of the four types of gamers:
- "Killers"
- "Achievers"
- "Socializers"
- "Explorers"

Just to be clear, players who want achievements without actually earning achievements don't fall into the "Achievers" group.

Currently, it seems to me that changes to ESO are primarily catering to the "Killers" group. These are the folks who love best-in-slot gear, who practice countless hours on target dummies, and who take great pride in demonstrating their dps numbers. And OF COURSE this game should cater to this group. I think this is the group that primarily wants account-wide achievements (for reasons that are entirely legitimate to their player style).

The "Achievers" group (who want to earn achievements) are in a minority, I think. These are the folks who probably prefer character-based achievements under the current system. Players in this group are probably irate to see their rewards from hundreds of hours of hard work wiped out. Folks in this group might think it's wrong to display "Former Emperor" on a character who didn't personally earn it.

Not much for the "Socializer" group in this game, except maybe housing? Although, I guess some players enjoy chatting with guildmates in guild chat or discord.

I guess the "Explorers" get a little new content each year with the expansion, and maybe some of the non-expansion DLC too. When the game first launched (March 30, 2014), I wandered around the zones for hours just admiring the artwork. Now I get to explore only 1 or 2 days a year with the new content.

So, just guessing here: The "killer" group is probably the biggest, most active group in the game right now, and I expect folks in this group spend the most money. I'd love to hear the real story from the Zenimax/Microsoft/Bethesda gaming psychologists.

When I heard about this grouping system, I wondered (but did not ask): What about Healers???? I'mma healer! What about me?!

silvereyes

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

I once heard a gaming psychologist talk about the psychological motivations of the four types of gamers:
- "Killers"
- "Achievers"
- "Socializers"
- "Explorers"

Interesting stuff, but of course, at the end of the day, we are all individuals.

I really don't care much about the achievements system per se. I'm not hugely into RP, and I'm not a checklist junkie.

I am, however, someone who likes to have fun on the same game over and over again.

I care about being able to experience story lines again, just like reading a book again. I care about being able to earn skill points and music boxes and target dummies again. I care about being able to level Undaunted on other characters in a way that is not time-gated. I care about losing achievements as a source of XP. I care about being able to have the map be a blank slate on a new character and not have content auto-complete when I get near.

I wouldn't want to lose replayability on any game, regardless of genre. I wouldn't want to log in to Far Cry or Tomb Raider or Shadow of Mordor on a new playthrough and find half the objectives done. I wouldn't want to log into an shooter and not be able to replay chapters of the story. I wouldn't want to log in to a survival game and have a giant homestead pre-constructed for me.

I don't know what bin the psychologists would lump me into, but I think it's kind of irrelevant. Just let me play the game again.

Necrotech_Master

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

From the PTS week 1 patch notes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• You will need to log in on each of your characters to register their Achievements and Titles (and if you delete a character before logging in as them, their achievement data will be lost!)

This is part of the reason why the "Earned by" tooltips can be so wonky. The order you log in can change who crosses the finish line first for some partial achievements:

this is why i dont see a point to the "earned by" option, everything that has a progress bar is going to be wonky in "who earned it" because technically earned by should be "all" if progress was not maxed before this update or just forgo the "earned by" entirely

i do like the idea of the account wide achievements so that i feel less forced to play 1 toon (although i do love my main, he is not set up to perform all roles and other toons of mine can do certain things better), but i think they definitely could have cleaned up the implementation

like collections are account wide, earning an achievement could have unlocked the associated achievement in an "achievements" section of the collection menu, this would appease both crowds who still like tracking achievements individually, but also given some kind of account progress for achievements (the collection menu for achievement could be what is used to unlock stuff such as dyes/costumes/titles/etc)

SalamanNZ

Can someone tell me if crafting and pvp achievements are part of this. Eg. I have spent hours harvesting to have almost 10000 on one character. I don't want the harvesting from my other characters to add together to make 10000

kind_hero

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

I once heard a gaming psychologist talk about the psychological motivations of the four types of gamers:
- "Killers"
- "Achievers"
- "Socializers"
- "Explorers"

Just to be clear, players who want achievements without actually earning achievements don't fall into the "Achievers" group.

Currently, it seems to me that changes to ESO are primarily catering to the "Killers" group. These are the folks who love best-in-slot gear, who practice countless hours on target dummies, and who take great pride in demonstrating their dps numbers. And OF COURSE this game should cater to this group. I think this is the group that primarily wants account-wide achievements (for reasons that are entirely legitimate to their player style).

The "Achievers" group (who want to earn achievements) are in a minority, I think. These are the folks who probably prefer character-based achievements under the current system. Players in this group are probably irate to see their rewards from hundreds of hours of hard work wiped out. Folks in this group might think it's wrong to display "Former Emperor" on a character who didn't personally earn it.

Not much for the "Socializer" group in this game, except maybe housing? Although, I guess some players enjoy chatting with guildmates in guild chat or discord.

I guess the "Explorers" get a little new content each year with the expansion, and maybe some of the non-expansion DLC too. When the game first launched (March 30, 2014), I wandered around the zones for hours just admiring the artwork. Now I get to explore only 1 or 2 days a year with the new content.

So, just guessing here: The "killer" group is probably the biggest, most active group in the game right now, and I expect folks in this group spend the most money. I'd love to hear the real story from the Zenimax/Microsoft/Bethesda gaming psychologists.

When I heard about this grouping system, I wondered (but did not ask): What about Healers???? I'mma healer! What about me?!

You are missing an important part of this categorization. Most modern models do not try to place people into one category, but to describe people as a combination of those categories. Because none is 100% Explorer.

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

It's not a matter of confusion as to what you are doing. There is confusion as to exactly WHY you are doing it and HOW it's happening. This is poorly designed and set up to erase everything I have and am working towards.

But if you are moving forward then give us better ways to track quests and other items. Your choices on what does and doesn't get tracked on a character level is annoyingly poorly thought out.

This is not a "play how you want" feature which is a mantra that was just tossed at us in the recent reveal.

It's frustrating that you wait until just before an update to tell us that such high scope changes are coming. And then only give us weeks to prepare.

this system is exactly how u want cause u get rewared for playing a lot of diffrent chars doing completly diffrent things - u get encouraged to try new stuff like a healer or tank cause even if u dont like it u still get rewarded the achievments to the char u choose to continue playing

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Most of the arguments I read here are about dungeon roles... people wanting to pursue certain achievement without worrying what class they should play. I haven't read any post saying "oh, I want to get Master Angler on my healer, but I have to be on my tank all the time".

So, to me it would be fine just to merge dungeon/raid/pvp achievements, and leave everything else be.

For example: I have a char that does Dark Brotherhood, and other chars who are the Bastian Helix type. And I liked the game allowed me to play in this way. I hate the idea of having murders/stealing achievements on a char that I want to play as a lawful hero. I also will have the werewolf achievement on chars that haven't got the curse. I don't like that. Yeah, it's a game, but it's changing rules and things while I am playing it. That's not cool.
To me, these character bound achievements (I don't talk about group achievements, raid/pvp etc), described the character I was playing. The number of kills, the amount of exploration, and each achievement was a victory for that char. With global, these achievements will be statistics, nothing more.
I also get that some people have a myriad of alts and are not attached to that char at all. For those global achievements are great. But many invest a lot of time in certain alts, and we like it this way.

Artanisul

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

I once heard a gaming psychologist talk about the psychological motivations of the four types of gamers:
- "Killers"
- "Achievers"
- "Socializers"
- "Explorers"

Just to be clear, players who want achievements without actually earning achievements don't fall into the "Achievers" group.

Currently, it seems to me that changes to ESO are primarily catering to the "Killers" group. These are the folks who love best-in-slot gear, who practice countless hours on target dummies, and who take great pride in demonstrating their dps numbers. And OF COURSE this game should cater to this group. I think this is the group that primarily wants account-wide achievements (for reasons that are entirely legitimate to their player style).

The "Achievers" group (who want to earn achievements) are in a minority, I think. These are the folks who probably prefer character-based achievements under the current system. Players in this group are probably irate to see their rewards from hundreds of hours of hard work wiped out. Folks in this group might think it's wrong to display "Former Emperor" on a character who didn't personally earn it.

Not much for the "Socializer" group in this game, except maybe housing? Although, I guess some players enjoy chatting with guildmates in guild chat or discord.

I guess the "Explorers" get a little new content each year with the expansion, and maybe some of the non-expansion DLC too. When the game first launched (March 30, 2014), I wandered around the zones for hours just admiring the artwork. Now I get to explore only 1 or 2 days a year with the new content.

So, just guessing here: The "killer" group is probably the biggest, most active group in the game right now, and I expect folks in this group spend the most money. I'd love to hear the real story from the Zenimax/Microsoft/Bethesda gaming psychologists.

When I heard about this grouping system, I wondered (but did not ask): What about Healers???? I'mma healer! What about me?!

"Killers" by far are the minority in this casual game. This is true for any MMO. The data is clear.

tmbrinks

SalamanNZ wrote: »

Can someone tell me if crafting and pvp achievements are part of this. Eg. I have spent hours harvesting to have almost 10000 on one character. I don't want the harvesting from my other characters to add together to make 10000

I would assume the harvesting one would add up the sum total (and the character you logged onto that pushed you over the 10,000 threshold will forever be in your menu as the one who "achieved" the achievement)

The PVP ones, you'll get the achievements for it, but not the combined rank of all your characters PvP rank. So you'll have a level 12 alliance rank Grand Overlord/Legate/whatever your highest character is at.

(The only positive I've seen from the PVP one might be the ability to buy the furnishings for the "other" alliances for high ranks without having to level the character in that alliance... although I don't know why you'd want an AD ballista furnishing if you've always fought for the Pact!)

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all!

Upon review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept within the Community Rules. Flaming is a violation of those guidelines, and is stated as follows:

• Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

HumbleThaumaturge

SalamanNZ wrote: »

Can someone tell me if crafting and pvp achievements are part of this. Eg. I have spent hours harvesting to have almost 10000 on one character. I don't want the harvesting from my other characters to add together to make 10000

On PTS V7.3.0/7.3.1, I logged-on all 18 of my North American characters, then deleted 1 character and created a new (level 3) character.

The new character has all of the Crafting/General achievements, including "Grand Master Crafting Harvester," in spite of never having harvested. Actually, the new character is born with all of the Crafting achievements, with the exception of the Crafting/Enchanting achievements associated with Rune knowledge. Although the new character is born having the Crafting/Alchemy achievements, the new character is not born (and must learn) the 4 "traits" of each alchemy ingredient.

Aside: Since the new character lacks Alchemy "trait" knowledge, it seems to me that the Alchemy trait achievements should be character-specific, just like the Enchanting rune-knowledge achievements.

PvP:
In short, the achievements for Alliance War rank are character specific, but the Titles for Alliance War rank are account wide. For Player-vs-Player achievements, most seem to be account wide, with the exception of the PvP/Alliance War achievements for Aliance War rank. However, the new character may display the Title for alliance war rank earned by other characters. For example, your new level 3 character may display the "Grand Overlord" title, even though the new character doesn't have the "Grand Overlord" rank achievement. Also, the correct symbol for the character's actual Alliance War rank will be displayed over the head of its avatar.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Elsonso wrote: »

TiaFrye wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out. Everybody thinks that they can do a better job than those who came before, and it hurts continuity when everything is being changed for the sake of change. Of course, it's up to us as players to decide if it's worth sticking around for or not. It's not like there are a lot of better options currently out there. However, I don't think I've ever seen such a drastic game change that has players using terms like "disgusted", "disrespected", "sick to my stomach", etc.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

"It's a byproduct of most of the current developers not being the same developers that had the original vision when the game was first laid out". Yeah, that's why I keep seeing dev people on the front celebrating their 10th and bigger anniversaries working on this game.
Please stop spreading misinformation just because you are salty.

It is not a completely false statement, though. The original creative director was Paul Sage, and he is the one that laid down the original creative vision for the game. Shortly before launch, he left and Rich Lambert took his place, and the game started to reflect his vision for the game.

Now, I won't say that the current situation is because of any change in vision. I can't say that because I really don't know what all is driving this change. My gut instinct is that it is more than just a few streamers who have been pressuring Rich/ZOS, coupled with people campaigning in here. For a change like this, as it exists on PTS, there is more to it.

Just to add my 2 drakes to this, here are some honorable mentions of the people who worked on ESO at launch and are no longer there: (There are many many more, these are just a few of the major ones.)
Nick Konkle - Lead Gameplay Designer
Lawrence Schick - Lore Master (He also worked with Gary Gygax at TSR)
Brian Wheeler - Lead PvP Designer
Eric Wrobel - Lead Combat Designer
Wynne McLaughlin - Lead Writer

Yes, the games direction and vision has changed. But, I will continue to love ESO. But even I am skeptical at some of the things in the last few years.

Just my thoughts.....

Elsonso

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just to add my 2 drakes to this, here are some honorable mentions of the people who worked on ESO at launch and are no longer there: (There are many many more, these are just a few of the major ones.)
Nick Konkle - Lead Gameplay Designer
Lawrence Schick - Lore Master (He also worked with Gary Gygax at TSR)
Brian Wheeler - Lead PvP Designer
Eric Wrobel - Lead Combat Designer
Wynne McLaughlin - Lead Writer

Wait. Wheeler left?

silvereyes

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

here are some honorable mentions of the people who worked on ESO at launch and are no longer there: (There are many many more, these are just a few of the major ones.)
Nick Konkle - Lead Gameplay Designer
Lawrence Schick - Lore Master (He also worked with Gary Gygax at TSR)
Brian Wheeler - Lead PvP Designer
Eric Wrobel - Lead Combat Designer
Wynne McLaughlin - Lead Writer

<pours one out for those who have gone before> 🍺

Good times.

Cleveland521

Will pvp titles be Acct wide in update 33
I didn’t see a question on it.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Elsonso wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just to add my 2 drakes to this, here are some honorable mentions of the people who worked on ESO at launch and are no longer there: (There are many many more, these are just a few of the major ones.)
Nick Konkle - Lead Gameplay Designer
Lawrence Schick - Lore Master (He also worked with Gary Gygax at TSR)
Brian Wheeler - Lead PvP Designer
Eric Wrobel - Lead Combat Designer
Wynne McLaughlin - Lead Writer

Wait. Wheeler left?

Well, haven't seen anything posted by him since about 2017, so I think so...
PS.. REALY miss Paul's shirts! Lol