PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

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Artemis_Jade wrote: »

However, if given a choice to side with casual/new players OR your long-term loyal base (the players that spend tons of $$$ money & actually log in everyday) I just really hope you guys DON'T end up alienating your loyal base by catering to casual/new players. Altho, just from looking at these comments & that poll, it seems that you already have.

The majority of casual and new players I come across have one character so don't care either way. According to the steamspy data they also don't stay for long (129.4 hours average total play time). So given those timings it looks like they turn up, do some story lines and leave.

I doubt therefore that casual players passing through the game matter one iota.

megasurge93

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Just to add my 2 drakes to this, here are some honorable mentions of the people who worked on ESO at launch and are no longer there: (There are many many more, these are just a few of the major ones.)
Nick Konkle - Lead Gameplay Designer
Lawrence Schick - Lore Master (He also worked with Gary Gygax at TSR)
Brian Wheeler - Lead PvP Designer
Eric Wrobel - Lead Combat Designer
Wynne McLaughlin - Lead Writer

Yes, the games direction and vision has changed. But, I will continue to love ESO. But even I am skeptical at some of the things in the last few years.

Just my thoughts.....

Yes, Lawrence Schick is awesome! (and so is Gary Gygax)! It was a sad day when he parted.

Elsonso

TiaFrye wrote: »

One thing is having people who worked on the game since the beginning still being in the lead of its direction and complitely the other thing is having Bioware-like or Blizzard-like situation where with veterans leaving everything started to crumble.

That is true. We have not had the "rats fleeing the sinking ship" syndrome or the "resume updated, engage greener pastures mode" going on here to a noticeable degree.

Jaraal

Tandor wrote: »

As for your analogy about the younger kids having to grind for the skill points to earn their degrees and academic achievements, I think in that scenario you'd find that once the oldest had got his/her degree the others would be able to buy it in the University Store !

A more appropriate analogy would be let's say that you spent 10 years at medical school working your butt off and learning everything you need to know, and then your little brother shows up and takes your final class for a week and is awarded the title of Doctor of Medicine.

Doesn't make much sense, does it? Yet here we are.

Tandor

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for your analogy about the younger kids having to grind for the skill points to earn their degrees and academic achievements, I think in that scenario you'd find that once the oldest had got his/her degree the others would be able to buy it in the University Store !

A more appropriate analogy would be let's say that you spent 10 years at medical school working your butt off and learning everything you need to know, and then your little brother shows up and takes your final class for a week and is awarded the title of Doctor of Medicine.

Doesn't make much sense, does it? Yet here we are.

I don't disagree with your analogy (and we are on the same page in this thread) but mine was intended to be a direct one, comparing @Elsonso's hypothetical degree scenario to e.g. skyshards in the Crown Store - which is far from hypothetical.

silvereyes

Tandor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for your analogy about the younger kids having to grind for the skill points to earn their degrees and academic achievements, I think in that scenario you'd find that once the oldest had got his/her degree the others would be able to buy it in the University Store !

A more appropriate analogy would be let's say that you spent 10 years at medical school working your butt off and learning everything you need to know, and then your little brother shows up and takes your final class for a week and is awarded the title of Doctor of Medicine.

Doesn't make much sense, does it? Yet here we are.

I don't disagree with your analogy (and we are on the same page in this thread) but mine was intended to be a direct one, comparing @Elsonso's hypothetical degree scenario to e.g. skyshards in the Crown Store - which is far from hypothetical.

Or an even more appropriate thing would be to not think too hard about analogies between RL and a video game. It was just a bit of fun. Try not to get distracted by it.

The situation isn't so hard to describe without analogies in any case. Me player. Me want to play game. Me finish things in game. Me want to do things again in game. Me confused because new game, but things look done. Me going crazy? No, me remember starting new game. Stupid game broken. Me throw game in trash.

jle30303

Account-wide titles don't seem to be a problem to me, any more than account-wide dyes, mementos, mounts and pets.

Account-wide achievements ARE a problem, because of the number of things in-game that are character-specific, that are tied to achievements.

Completion of quests, completion of zones, completion of locations, even finding of skyshards - all these things need to be character-specific, NOT account-wide.

- If I have, for instance, completed Daenia Dolmen (South Glenumbra) on one character, and not completed it on another character, but I wander up to it and find it empty when discovering it, then it should be WHITE for the completing character and BLACK for the character who has not actually completed it.

- Delves are tied to killing the delve boss, which grants an Achievement: no matter whether the Achievement is account-wide, the actual fact of having beaten the boss and completed the delve is character-specific, and for any character who has NOT killed the actual delve boss, THE DELVE SHOULD NOT BE MARKED AS COMPLETE FOR THAT CHARACTER.

- Public dungeon "completion" usually depends on the quest within that dungeon - not necessarily killing any of the bosses (which are separate achievements themselves, one for killing half of them, one for killing all) or gaining the skill point (which is yet another separate achievement): but ALL of these things need to separately be character-specific, not account-wide. If one character gains the dungeon's skill point, others still have not done so: if one character completes its quest (turning the dungeon white on the map screen), others have still not done so (meaning it should remain black).

As for the "Collection" achievements: Apart from the Blackwood Tapestry (which is not, actually, an Achievement, but an actual completed item), they were designed for single character completion. Completing them on one character should not result in other characters being unable to do them. It should be possible to do these more than once.

Thus: If account-wide achievements are to become a thing (for instance, for the purpose of merging them into the Steam Achievements system), then it needs to be done purely as an overlay which tracks things FIRST AND FOREMOST at the character level.

Look at the way it's done in, for instance, TES V: Skyrim. Steam Achievements are account-wide, but what you achieve on one character is not achieved on others. This, in fact, allows for conflicting achievements to be done by different characters: for instance, one character might join the Dark Brotherhood and follow its quest line, whereas another might kill Astrid and wipe them out instead, and there are achievements for both. This is the RIGHT way to do account-wide achievements.

Now, achievements for killing certain numbers of monsters (or players), or doing the same repeatable quest a lot of times? That's something that I have no problem with being account-wide. But if it is, then it should be TRULY account-wide, to the point of not showing which actual character tipped the number over the achievement value. If Sir-PVPs-A-Lot kills 90 Wardens, and Sir Only-Here-For-Caltrops kills 10 but those include the 100th, the game should record that you've killed 100 wardens - but NOT give the credit to either specific character, because it is a collective achievement.

In fact, there need to be SEVERAL types of achievement:

- Collective things. Which are done across multiple accounts. "Kill 500 Skeevers in Wayrest 1 Veteran" would work well this way, as would "Complete 150 Murkmire Prepper quests from Jee-Lar" or "Kill 50 Dragons". Or "Sell 1 million gold worth of Fenced Items" for "Black Market Mogul". In this case, *it does not matter which character scores the last action that leads to actual completion because it is account-wide*.

- Once-only things. On which the reward has to be completed on a single character, but cannot thereafter be done again because it's a single account-wide reward. (Examples: Mummified Alfiq Parts, Swamp Jelly Parts, Guar Stomp Emote Parts. Any account can collect them but only one can use the complete set to create the reward pet. Or, Blackwood Tapestry - multiple characters can find and dig up the leads, and indeed, it's possible to find the lead with one, scry for it with another, and dig it up on a third.) Once again, in this case there is no need to note which character gained the achievement, because it is a truly account-wide thing.

- Things which can be done separately on multiple characters, in which the account might get an Achievement for completing it with one character, but the other characters still have to be able to complete the same action entirely separately. These include things like the mini-Achievements for delves, or more major achievements for dungeon hard modes or no-deaths and so on. THESE AND ONLY THESE are the achievements where it needs to be noted which actual character(s) has completed it, because others have not completed it.

SydneyGrey

Please exclude the museum-type quests from this so we can do the Bards College quest multiple times. It's not ok to take away a feature that we paid for when we bought Greymoor. If you can just exclude the museum quests so they can be replayed on our alts (which includes the Orsinium museum, the Dark Brotherhood Litany of Blood quests, and that museum in Summerset as well as the Bards College) then I'd find this patch acceptable.

Tandor

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for your analogy about the younger kids having to grind for the skill points to earn their degrees and academic achievements, I think in that scenario you'd find that once the oldest had got his/her degree the others would be able to buy it in the University Store !

A more appropriate analogy would be let's say that you spent 10 years at medical school working your butt off and learning everything you need to know, and then your little brother shows up and takes your final class for a week and is awarded the title of Doctor of Medicine.

Doesn't make much sense, does it? Yet here we are.

I don't disagree with your analogy (and we are on the same page in this thread) but mine was intended to be a direct one, comparing @Elsonso's hypothetical degree scenario to e.g. skyshards in the Crown Store - which is far from hypothetical.

Or an even more appropriate thing would be to not think too hard about analogies between RL and a video game. It was just a bit of fun. Try not to get distracted by it.

The situation isn't so hard to describe without analogies in any case. Me player. Me want to play game. Me finish things in game. Me want to do things again in game. Me confused because new game, but things look done. Me going crazy? No, me remember starting new game. Stupid game broken. Me throw game in trash.

I agree that sometimes people can take things too seriously. Like their reactions to my response to the original bit of fun which I simply joined in with, for example - hence the wink and smile ! This is a pretty serious thread on a pretty serious change to the game, and one that devastates me as much as anyone given that I have fifty characters that seemingly will now count as one. Indeed, I've now taken the plunge and started a single character on a new account and have never seen the starting zones so busy since 2014 so perhaps I'm not alone in that. However, we have to maintain a humorous side to some of it as well.

Fennwitty

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for your analogy about the younger kids having to grind for the skill points to earn their degrees and academic achievements, I think in that scenario you'd find that once the oldest had got his/her degree the others would be able to buy it in the University Store !

A more appropriate analogy would be let's say that you spent 10 years at medical school working your butt off and learning everything you need to know, and then your little brother shows up and takes your final class for a week and is awarded the title of Doctor of Medicine.

Doesn't make much sense, does it? Yet here we are.

Except that the 'little brother' is just the same med student wearing glasses and a fake mustache.

I doubt there's a single way to make everyone happy -- some players consider their characters as individuals, some consider them all subordinate to the player.

The current implementation is problematic though.

katorga

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

silvereyes

katorga wrote: »

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

If you are looking for a login order strategy to ensure that the character with the most progress towards achievements gets the "Earned by" credit, I'm afraid there isn't one. It will all come down to the specific numbers each character has, and there are so many achievements that you are almost guaranteed to get some "Earned by" credits assigned to a character it makes no sense for.

My current strategy will be to use an addon to hide the "Earned by" tooltips, since an addon for that is inevitable if this goes live. Better to not bother myself about credit for something account-wide in any case.

tmbrinks

katorga wrote: »

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

Have a single character with all the achievements? Even that doesn't work as my "main" now wasn't my first played character, so many of the base game achievements in questing, overland, dungeons, are going to have my earlier character's name as the Earned By:

Necrotech_Master

jle30303 wrote: »

Account-wide titles don't seem to be a problem to me, any more than account-wide dyes, mementos, mounts and pets.

Account-wide achievements ARE a problem, because of the number of things in-game that are character-specific, that are tied to achievements.

Completion of quests, completion of zones, completion of locations, even finding of skyshards - all these things need to be character-specific, NOT account-wide.

- If I have, for instance, completed Daenia Dolmen (South Glenumbra) on one character, and not completed it on another character, but I wander up to it and find it empty when discovering it, then it should be WHITE for the completing character and BLACK for the character who has not actually completed it.

- Delves are tied to killing the delve boss, which grants an Achievement: no matter whether the Achievement is account-wide, the actual fact of having beaten the boss and completed the delve is character-specific, and for any character who has NOT killed the actual delve boss, THE DELVE SHOULD NOT BE MARKED AS COMPLETE FOR THAT CHARACTER.

- Public dungeon "completion" usually depends on the quest within that dungeon - not necessarily killing any of the bosses (which are separate achievements themselves, one for killing half of them, one for killing all) or gaining the skill point (which is yet another separate achievement): but ALL of these things need to separately be character-specific, not account-wide. If one character gains the dungeon's skill point, others still have not done so: if one character completes its quest (turning the dungeon white on the map screen), others have still not done so (meaning it should remain black).

As for the "Collection" achievements: Apart from the Blackwood Tapestry (which is not, actually, an Achievement, but an actual completed item), they were designed for single character completion. Completing them on one character should not result in other characters being unable to do them. It should be possible to do these more than once.

Thus: If account-wide achievements are to become a thing (for instance, for the purpose of merging them into the Steam Achievements system), then it needs to be done purely as an overlay which tracks things FIRST AND FOREMOST at the character level.

Look at the way it's done in, for instance, TES V: Skyrim. Steam Achievements are account-wide, but what you achieve on one character is not achieved on others. This, in fact, allows for conflicting achievements to be done by different characters: for instance, one character might join the Dark Brotherhood and follow its quest line, whereas another might kill Astrid and wipe them out instead, and there are achievements for both. This is the RIGHT way to do account-wide achievements.

Now, achievements for killing certain numbers of monsters (or players), or doing the same repeatable quest a lot of times? That's something that I have no problem with being account-wide. But if it is, then it should be TRULY account-wide, to the point of not showing which actual character tipped the number over the achievement value. If Sir-PVPs-A-Lot kills 90 Wardens, and Sir Only-Here-For-Caltrops kills 10 but those include the 100th, the game should record that you've killed 100 wardens - but NOT give the credit to either specific character, because it is a collective achievement.

In fact, there need to be SEVERAL types of achievement:

- Collective things. Which are done across multiple accounts. "Kill 500 Skeevers in Wayrest 1 Veteran" would work well this way, as would "Complete 150 Murkmire Prepper quests from Jee-Lar" or "Kill 50 Dragons". Or "Sell 1 million gold worth of Fenced Items" for "Black Market Mogul". In this case, *it does not matter which character scores the last action that leads to actual completion because it is account-wide*.

- Once-only things. On which the reward has to be completed on a single character, but cannot thereafter be done again because it's a single account-wide reward. (Examples: Mummified Alfiq Parts, Swamp Jelly Parts, Guar Stomp Emote Parts. Any account can collect them but only one can use the complete set to create the reward pet. Or, Blackwood Tapestry - multiple characters can find and dig up the leads, and indeed, it's possible to find the lead with one, scry for it with another, and dig it up on a third.) Once again, in this case there is no need to note which character gained the achievement, because it is a truly account-wide thing.

- Things which can be done separately on multiple characters, in which the account might get an Achievement for completing it with one character, but the other characters still have to be able to complete the same action entirely separately. These include things like the mini-Achievements for delves, or more major achievements for dungeon hard modes or no-deaths and so on. THESE AND ONLY THESE are the achievements where it needs to be noted which actual character(s) has completed it, because others have not completed it.

agree with pretty much everything in here

the TLDR i would say is:

• map completion should not be tied to achievements
• multi-part or "progress" achievements like killing X number of things should not mark an "earned by" as it makes no sense
• other "milestone" achievements like dungeon completions or challenge achievements (like HM/trifectas) could still be tracked per character (with account achievement noting which character achieved and when)

Maggusemm

Account wide achievements have been asked for a long time and its good that they are finally implemented. AS others noted, it should be visible which character achieved what.

So one section for the account. One section for the character for the achievements, then its easy to track.

Bragerth

tmbrinks wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

Have a single character with all the achievements? Even that doesn't work as my "main" now wasn't my first played character, so many of the base game achievements in questing, overland, dungeons, are going to have my earlier character's name as the Earned By:

But we don't know if the earned by is only for test, I hope its not but as I said before its not truly account wide if there is an earned by what character.

tmbrinks

RavenXIV wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

Have a single character with all the achievements? Even that doesn't work as my "main" now wasn't my first played character, so many of the base game achievements in questing, overland, dungeons, are going to have my earlier character's name as the Earned By:

But we don't know if the earned by is only for test, I hope its not but as I said before its not truly account wide if there is an earned by what character.

Just stating it how it is on PTS, not making conjectures about things.

Bragerth

tmbrinks wrote: »

RavenXIV wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

so what is the process when patch drops?

Login in characters in the order of greatest achievment points to fewest, or something else?

Have a single character with all the achievements? Even that doesn't work as my "main" now wasn't my first played character, so many of the base game achievements in questing, overland, dungeons, are going to have my earlier character's name as the Earned By:

But we don't know if the earned by is only for test, I hope its not but as I said before its not truly account wide if there is an earned by what character.

Just stating it how it is on PTS, not making conjectures about things.

Oh I know im just saying wish they would let us know if it will fall off or be taken off the ui at a later time, I thought maybe this was just to an easier way to implement things in but im not to sure now .

wenchmore420b14_ESO

I recently made a Necro Vamp, complete with 2 page backstory, that I was saving to play completely "vanilla". No shiny armor from master crafter, no special potions or food. Just what I pick up along the way.
Well, I have playing on her in PTS just to see what it will do to my low level toon.

All world bosses and world events register as done.
Did Jesters Festival. Achievements show done, even the "personal Chef" one, even though she hasn't done it.
Went to Crows Wood Public Dungeon in Stonefalls. Got quest, completed dungeon, no skill point.
This on top of museum quests, missing stuff at Bards College, etc.
How can anyone think is a good thing?

Just to reiterate, not a fan of this change.

arteen_eso

I also want to voice my concern with how account-wide achievements are being implemented. I do most everything on my main first, so now I won't be able to track any of my alts' accomplishments, large or small.

For example, my main is a DPS-focused character and I'm proud that I was able to clear all vet dungeons and trials on that character. I have a more recent character, a tank, that I'd like to accomplish the same thing with. But with the way account-wide achievements are implemented, I won't be able to track any of this. I won't have records showing what I accomplished on my tank, or when.

Most of my recent playtime has been on my alts, but this change will kill much of my desire to play on my alts, create new alts, or play ESO in general. I've happily spent money on new character slots, various skyshard unlocks, and even a few skill lines I was impatient about, for my alts. But I won't spend any more money on my alts if I don't enjoy playing them.

As an Xbox player, I'm also concerned about Xbox achievements. As an example, the Xbox achievement for "Savior of Elsweyr" was bugged sometime after launch. Players could unlock the ESO achievement, but it didn't unlock the Xbox achievement tied to it. This was eventually fixed, but not retroactively. Players had to unlock the achievement again on a completely different character for the Xbox achievement to unlock. This won't be possible if the ESO achievements are account-wide.

I like the idea of account-wide achievements, but not the implementation. I want to see both an account-wide and a per-character view of my achievements. I want to see my account-wide achievement score. But I also want to unlock achievements on my alts, even if I already did them on another character.

proprio.meb16_ESO

<a few posts that have been removed>

That's quite weird unless you've used some very colorful language or broke some other forum rule in your post.

I'm following this thread more or less since it started and the suggestion of delaying AWA and not including it in next update is one of the most endorsed by all the players unhappy with it...

Wolf_Eye

It could be a glitch. Usually, if they delete your post, they notify you of it in some way.

The other day, I wrote an innocent post, but for some weird reason when I refreshed the page it was gone. I never received any notification from ZOS, which didn't surprise me because the disappearance was pretty instantaneous (it was within 1-3 minutes of posting). I don't think they'd be able to react that fast, and the post itself didn't have anything worth deleting anyways.

So I think the forums can just get a little funky sometimes.

CrystalExarch

Artemis_Jade wrote: »

It really seems like ZOS is catering to Casual/New Players *INSTEAD OF* listening to THEIR LONG TERM BASE & It's unfortunate because it's NOT the casual players that are buying $140 USD Houses from the Crown Store. Casual Players DO NOT buy 15 crown crates at a time. Casual Players AREN'T paying subscription fees every month. Yet, it's the Casual Players that are getting what THEY want from ZOS while dedicated, long term players PAY THE PRICE, literally & figuratively!

As a new, casual player I should tell you that you are quite unfair here. I started playing early November, 2021, and so far, in addition to buying the Blackwood edition of the game, I have also bought around 15,000+ crowns for housing and DLCs, and I also pay a monthly subscription.

Speaking for myself, I should also tell you that a new, casual player DOESN'T necessarily want the horrible changes ZOS intends to launch in the near future. I DON'T want account-wide achievements like those shown on the PTS. I haven't play-tested them myself, but I do trust my fellow players who have been playing all these year - and what I have been reading is NOT something I want.

I consider each character I create unique, which is part of the role-playing aspect of this game - something that ZOS seems to forget. So, while my main character has finished the main story and most of DLCs' stories, he hasn't gotten, for example, the Meridia's Lightbearer achievement in Coldharbour (as I was too eager to continue the story the first time), while my second character got it.

I have 4 additional, low-level, around level 17-18, characters who do daily scripts, and each of them learns every spare recipe or motif, researches traits and occasionally will go out for sigh-seeing and discovering a delve or two - and every single time I get a feeling of achievement when a message of completion pop ups on my screen, no matter whether I have done that particular activity before or not.

The changes ZOS has in mind, as these have been recorded by fellow players on PTS, will only make the game more boring for me, and devalue it because ESO will be stripped of its replayability; if they go forward with these changes -and there is no indication they won't- then there will be no reason for me to keep paying subscriptions and being interested in this game anymore.

Although I don't come to the forums often, I felt the need to write and let ZOS and my fellow long-term players hear the opinion of a new, casual player.

WiseSky

Please make it optional.

Please make it optional.

Please make it optional.

gresiac

CrystalExarch wrote: »

Artemis_Jade wrote: »

It really seems like ZOS is catering to Casual/New Players *INSTEAD OF* listening to THEIR LONG TERM BASE & It's unfortunate because it's NOT the casual players that are buying $140 USD Houses from the Crown Store. Casual Players DO NOT buy 15 crown crates at a time. Casual Players AREN'T paying subscription fees every month. Yet, it's the Casual Players that are getting what THEY want from ZOS while dedicated, long term players PAY THE PRICE, literally & figuratively!

As a new, casual player I should tell you that you are quite unfair here. I started playing early November, 2021, and so far, in addition to buying the Blackwood edition of the game, I have also bought around 15,000+ crowns for housing and DLCs, and I also pay a monthly subscription.

Speaking for myself, I should also tell you that a new, casual player DOESN'T necessarily want the horrible changes ZOS intends to launch in the near future. I DON'T want account-wide achievements like those shown on the PTS. I haven't play-tested them myself, but I do trust my fellow players who have been playing all these year - and what I have been reading is NOT something I want.

I consider each character I create unique, which is part of the role-playing aspect of this game - something that ZOS seems to forget. So, while my main character has finished the main story and most of DLCs' stories, he hasn't gotten, for example, the Meridia's Lightbearer achievement in Coldharbour (as I was too eager to continue the story the first time), while my second character got it.

I have 4 additional, low-level, around level 17-18, characters who do daily scripts, and each of them learns every spare recipe or motif, researches traits and occasionally will go out for sigh-seeing and discovering a delve or two - and every single time I get a feeling of achievement when a message of completion pop ups on my screen, no matter whether I have done that particular activity before or not.

The changes ZOS has in mind, as these have been recorded by fellow players on PTS, will only make the game more boring for me, and devalue it because ESO will be stripped of its replayability; if they go forward with these changes -and there is no indication they won't- then there will be no reason for me to keep paying subscriptions and being interested in this game anymore.

Although I don't come to the forums often, I felt the need to write and let ZOS and my fellow long-term players hear the opinion of a new, casual player.

I play since launch spend a few thousand euros on the game so far. I always have been loyal to this game and took all the bugs and lag with it. But now this will be a bridge to far, Eso is a mmo what’s the point of removing progressions of alts? I wonder who decide those things.

Varana

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen.

As others have noted, talking about "points of confusion" might not have been the best idea. About the implementation of this change, there is no confusion. It's plain to see on the PTS.

The only confusion is about the reasoning behind this change. And while it would be interesting to know this, this isn't what players vocing their concerns here were asking.

But while you're (you as in ZOS) at it, I am confused about a few things, so it would be nice if the Q&A could address them:

- Account-wide achievements is a massive design change after 8 years. Why did you give yourself so little time, preparation, and effort for this change? Namely,
- Did you not realise that this is a massive change to the game? Announcing this took about two minutes in your post-reveal stream, and a decent chunk of that time was spent reading out patch notes and talking about how character copies on PTS work. This leads me to believe that this change was conceived hastily, implemented prematurely, and without much thought about the consequences.
- Achievements in ESO have been designed (I hope there was a design philosophy behind them...) to be character-specific for years. The new system doesn't replace them with a system that was designed to be account-wide, it's just literally collapsing them into one achievement, and erases everything else. Why not do it properly, and redesign achievements from the ground up?
- How AWA are implemented, erases tons of data, esp. the closest thing that ESO has to a character biography. That just vanishes into the ether, never to be recovered again. Why did you think that no player would want to keep any of that data? You're making a roleplaying game. Why did you think players of such a game would be happy about deleting their character record?
- We all know that achievements are tied in with a lot of game systems. You've tried to compensate a bit (Undaunted) - but the change on the PTS doesn't come close - not nearly - to what the old system gave. All the bugs about museum quests, recurring NPCs, the zone completion system... many players would've come up with a fairly long list of things that are possibly tied to achievements in the game. Not all actually are (and it seems there is quite a bit of inconsistency in how superficially similar things are done in the background), but why didn't you take enough time to check that before implementing this, and instead try to band-aid around it?
- You're a company creating a video game. Achievement popups are there for a reason in games. And while I commend ESO for not using them in a manipulative manner, having basically none is equally unsatisfying. The wish for acknowledgment after achieving something, is basic human psychology, and something that game designers are certainly aware of. Why did you decide to remove this from the game for a big part of your players' experience?

Those are the things I am confused about, and I hope the Q&A will provide convincing reasons for why you're changing the game in the way you do.

Zyaedra

Is it clear which achievements are still character-centered?

no. or maybe i am just dumb lol. when i hear "account-wide achievements", i think saweet, i can do <content> with this toon and it will translate to all my other toons -- i won't need to do it again. this system doesn't operate that way:

• level 50 hero: this is an account wide achievement, yet newly created characters do not start at level 50.
• account-wide crafting achievements like (all) alliance, race, etc style pages learned and (all) traits researched make no sense when each character has to learn them individually in order to use them.

imo there needs to be a clear divide between account-wide and character-centered achievements -- if <content> has to be completed on a character, the achievements associated with said content should not be categorized as account-wide.

Marcusorion1

Perhaps a player from the PTS or Zos has an answer to this : with the upcoming Mayhem, the Achievement Title "Star-Made Knight" is available for completing a plethora of event related activities - will this achievement also be unlocked account wide ?

Should I try and complete the individual goals on yet another character just to see it as a "waste of time" when the update goes live?

Having the correct and substantive information ahead of time would be very useful and appreciated by many players considering the scope of impact of this proposed change, ty.

francesinhalover

add new achivs like 2000 quests, 5000 quests, 1000 undaunted keys, crafting maxed out on 2 chars.
reach cp 160 on 8 characters or reach 160 on all classes.
spend x hours in game, and others, the community has ideas.

N00BxV1

What happens if a character received the "earned by" credit for an achievement and then:

A ) the character is renamed - does the old name remain on the tool-tip, or does it update properly with the new name?

B ) the character is deleted - does the now non-existent character's name remain on the tool-tip, or does a different character receive the credit?

Are there any other side effects that might occur from managing characters (rename, delete, etc.) that could negatively affect achievements, quests, etc.?

And it sounds like the only definitive way to ensure that our "main" gets proper credit for achievements instead of a random, less-played alt would be to delete all of our alts so that none of their progress was ever recorded in the first place... But that ain't gonna happen for me and probably a lot of other folks.

I just hope zos will take their time and do this properly, with plenty of testing and bug fixing, instead of rushing it like we see with so many other things...