PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Jaraal

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Wait, who’s confused? The rewriting of the way the game has been played for eight years is quite clear. Taking away our individual achievements and the motivation to get them is plain to see. The removal of the ability to do quests more than once has been documented.

But the biggest news here is that you will be pushing ahead with this debacle as planned. And that tells us all we need to know.

GaianSpirit

As an endgame DD I fully support global achievements, it frees me up to play whatever class my team needs or what intressets me for specific content. But as I'm sure other have mentioned there is a huge lack of rewards for clearing a veteran HM trial or achieving another trifecta. Now that I'll have every trifecta title on all my characters, even my 2 tanks I only do pledges with, what do I get? Sure I get personal satisfaction and social gratification but thats not something inside the game.

There is a huge lack of rewards in endgame raiding. You dont even get 20-50 transmutes for clearing a veteran HM, or trifecta Even the quality of rewards has declined, we used to get skins and personalities for doing HMs in trials and dungeons, now we get body markings and face markings. But we also get mounts, there is some weird gap here? Personally I think it'd be great if we could get back to the skins and personalities. But since title rewards from trifectas is being seen in the true lackluster light. How about trifectas dropping a unique weapon outfit style fitting the theme of the trial, ofc only tradeable same as the gear dropping (tradable between group-members and for 2hr or whatever it is). This would create a want to return to content and do trifectas several times. And it would hopefully make more ppl want to get into endgame raiding.
And before you say, "but its too hard and I dont have the time", ask yourself if goals, even if you cant personally reach them, isnt healthy for a games future? Besides there are already titles, mounts, skins etc in trails and various rewards in pvp content that requires you to invest time to reach a goal.

Xarc

OK so, global achievement, account wide achievement...

BUT

why to mention "earned by XXX(character name)" in the tooltip ?

what is the point ?
Is it because if you delete this char you'll lose the achievement (if no other char has it) ?

I mean, It totally kills the idea to change main character. With this mention, my new main which I want to have all achievements will be stuck forever with the name of another char on the achievement he unlocked.

Bragerth

Xarc wrote: »

OK so, global achievement, account wide achievement...

BUT

why to mention "earned by XXX(character name)" in the tooltip ?

what is the point ?
Is it because if you delete this char you'll lose the achievement (if no other char has it) ?

I mean, It totally kills the idea to change main character. With this mention, my new main which I want to have all achievements will be stuck forever with the name of another char on the achievement he unlocked.

I know if you delete the character it does not say the character anymore in tool tips, maybe this is only temporary till later at another update but yes i have this same question why have an earned by if its a global achievement for your account. Please @ZOS_Kevin Can you please add this to the Q&A why it is like this or if it will go away over time.

Xarc

I would rather prefere to see in the tooltip :
earned by : (all the names of my characters who unlocked it) XXX XXX XXX XXX XXX XXX

edit:
and what is happening to the chars who unlocked the achievement and who have been renamed with token? Is the new name concerned or still the 1st name who unlocked the achievement ?

real question again

DarcyMardin

I, too, appreciate the response, but as other have noted, the problem is far greater than “points of confusion.” The problem is that a significant number of long term loyal ESO players are about to see both the histories and the replayability value for our many alts disappear. For me, at least, titles are not even the issue — I don’t care if people who haven’t completed no death VMA on a particular alt can now use that title account-wide. I just want the option to see whether my alts have completed an achievement or not and that nice little neurotransmitter hit when they do.

Frankly, the repeatability is what keeps me coming back — the challenge of accomplishing something in a different way, using different skills or different strategies. Why do some folks get more than one set of Trifectas or Grand Master Craftsman or All-zones Master Fisherman? Because doing so is a challenge, and accomplishing it feels good!

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Remember that feeling, that "heck Yes!" moment when you got that last fish for Master Angler?
That point of pure joy finishing DSA for first time?
Getting that last skyshard in Cyrodiil?
Well, those feelings of accomplishment are now history. So sad.

I have a Bosmer thief alt. I have saving to level up in a RP style.
Well, logged them on in PTS, and,.........
ALL the TG quests all done, all everything all done. NOW, I have zero reason to invest in my alt and zero reason for replayability.

IMO, Account wide achievements are one of the worst decisions ZoS has made.
Please hear our voice!
Thank you!

wolfie1.0.

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

It also doesn't mean that it will be. until we hear from ZOS there are no guarantees that we can ever go back.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Remember that feeling, that "heck Yes!" moment when you got that last fish for Master Angler?
That point of pure joy finishing DSA for first time?
Getting that last skyshard in Cyrodiil?
Well, those feelings of accomplishment are now history. So sad.

I have a Bosmer thief alt. I have saving to level up in a RP style.
Well, logged them on in PTS, and,.........
ALL the TG quests all done, all everything all done. NOW, I have zero reason to invest in my alt and zero reason for replayability.

IMO, Account wide achievements are one of the worst decisions ZoS has made.
Please hear our voice!
Thank you!

Well, went back and did some testing on my low level bosmer thief alt.
(No add ons) Zones will still show "blank" in ones not explored. Will still give the "So & So Discovered" screen pop and gives the XP points for the POI, Delv, Wayshrine, etc.
At least this is something.
But even with this, it still feels redundant to expand our alts on a immersive basis.
Just my 2 drakes, but still would like to see this NOT implemented.
Thank You!

silvereyes

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

It also doesn't mean that it will be. until we hear from ZOS there are no guarantees that we can ever go back.

That's why I keep asking for clarification on that point. We need more information. We don't know anything about how this is working behind the scenes. We only know what we see as players.

Until we have more information, it's irresponsible to assert that data, "will have been destroyed," and ZOS only, "has only one chance to get it right." It's more accurate to say we fear that data will be irrevocably destroyed.

wolfie1.0.

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

IronWooshu

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

Oh they don't care, they made this change in mind thinking you will still all play and they know better than you do. I can guarantee it.

wolfie1.0.

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

It also doesn't mean that it will be. until we hear from ZOS there are no guarantees that we can ever go back.

That's why I keep asking for clarification on that point. We need more information. We don't know anything about how this is working behind the scenes. We only know what we see as players.

Until we have more information, it's irresponsible to assert that data, "will have been destroyed," and ZOS only, "has only one chance to get it right." It's more accurate to say we fear that data will be irrevocably destroyed.

I have been playing ESO for quite some time, and have some interesting conversations with Support over the years. One thing i have learned is that they don't exactly have as much tracking or access as people assume. Based on these experiences I feel i can reasonably assume that the data won't be stored or backed up. Even if I am wrong through, there isn't much to guarantee that they will continue to track things.

SydneyGrey

I'd like to respectfully remind ZOS that the quests from Greymoor are part of what we paid for when we bought it. If you take away the ability to do the Bards College quest multiple times, you're taking away content that we already paid for.

If there is a way to exclude museum-type quests from this account-wide achievements patch, please do so.

Also, it's no fun if everything is already completed for us. I don't want to just play though each aspect of the game once and then never again. Part of my enjoyment is doing these things on different characters.

newtinmpls

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Also, it's no fun if everything is already completed for us. I don't want to just play though each aspect of the game once and then never again. Part of my enjoyment is doing these things on different characters.

I'm doing some of the Daggerfall questing recently that I haven't done in years....and enjoying it.

This really messes with game replay-ability

tomofhyrule

I'm disappointed that it seems like this is the intended way to do it. I'd guess that the bugfixes to allow us to do the museums will go through, they may fix delves/WBs/dolmens to be marked uncomplete on the map despite the achievement since they did do that with striking locales...
...but I can't say I'm optimistic about anything else being changed. Hopefully this Q&A will give us some insight, but I know my problem isn't that I have some 'points of confusion.' I've looked on PTS, I know what it's like. And it feels like I don't have alts anymore, just alter-egos of the same character.

I know, some people see the character select screen as a series of tools they can use - they, the player, are the one in control using whichever tool would work best. But for others, each character is its own person with a history and a goal. A character/account tab system (with grindy achievements like trophies still shared) or a hybrid like the current PTS (but with a lot more shoved onto the character side) would allow both sets of players to be able to see what they want out of the achievement screen, but there are some people who also think that everything, both monster trophies and the escape from the Wailing Prison, should be one or the other and that can't be reconciled.

I'm disappointed that it doesn't seem that questing achieves will go back to character side. It's completely bizarre to me that all of the MQ achievements save the first are shared, but there are a lot of quest achievements in the game and I'd hate to have them all reduced to the date my main did it. Especially since I'm planning to have a character in each alliance for story purposes, but I'm running my main through Cadwell's silver/gold to plan out my alts' stories. It'll be disappointing to see my Pact main as the 'owner' of the DC story quests and then my DC character gets really nothing of his own.

I hope one of the first addons we can get will at least be able to remove 'Earned By: XXX' on the shared achievements. I'd hate an alt to pick up the last thing of something my main got the other 999 of, or to see the wrong character get the story achievement.

I'm trying to be happy about shared titles (my DC story werewolf will look so good with my main's MoS/MHK HM titles!) and Monster Trophy sharing, but it's all coming at the cost of a loss of character history and the removal of the 'Achievement Unlocked' popup for a lot of things.

It honestly makes me feel much less excited to play the game. If we had a hybrid that kept a lot of zone/quest/completion achievements on the character side but still allowed us to tally things on the account, or if we had the character/account views, that'd be great. But I have to say that it feels like something's getting lost with this system.

silvereyes

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

It also doesn't mean that it will be. until we hear from ZOS there are no guarantees that we can ever go back.

That's why I keep asking for clarification on that point. We need more information. We don't know anything about how this is working behind the scenes. We only know what we see as players.

Until we have more information, it's irresponsible to assert that data, "will have been destroyed," and ZOS only, "has only one chance to get it right." It's more accurate to say we fear that data will be irrevocably destroyed.

I have been playing ESO for quite some time, and have some interesting conversations with Support over the years. One thing i have learned is that they don't exactly have as much tracking or access as people assume. Based on these experiences I feel i can reasonably assume that the data won't be stored or backed up. Even if I am wrong through, there isn't much to guarantee that they will continue to track things.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not assuming or guaranteeing anything. I wouldn't be surprised if everything will be as bad as our worst fears. I'm just trying to tamp down on people spreading rumors that we have no confirmation of one way or another yet.

RaddlemanNumber7

IronWooshu wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

Oh they don't care, they made this change in mind thinking you will still all play and they know better than you do. I can guarantee it.

It's not "still all play" that matters most to them, it's "still all pay".

kind_hero

I am not sure if this was pointed out, but the proposed system of account wide achievements has several inconsistencies. I am not advocating for having or not having these, I am just saying:

- crafting achievements are account wide, while research for runes, herbs, traits are not. Also recipes are char bound. To me it does not make sense. I have a grand master achievement, yet the char I am playing with barely knows how to bake bread. And this wouldn't be an issue if you could track your char's crafting progress.
- pvp achievements are account wide, but rank is not. So the mile stone of a grind is account wide, while the grind itself is not. People who don't want to grind ranks again might argue, why not give the rank as well, since we are making things account wide
- quests completion achievement is account wide, but quests are not. (ofc I am not suggesting they should be). But this creates all sorts of inconsistencies, bugs and issues with replay-ability, as discovered and shown by people playing on the PTS.
- dyes and outfits are already account wide, but motifs are not. I read above that a colleague has 6 grand master crafters. that's a lot of commitment, I appreciate that.
- probably there are more

In my opinion, these things should be left as they are. Players have been doing amazing achievements and feats, it would be a shame to delete all this, regardless the benefits. I haven't understood what the benefits are, the developer's vision. How this would make people play more. I am sure that I will play less, and focus just on my main for new content, having most of the achievements done. I kept the alts exactly as alternate characters who have a different journey in the game. One of my alts started in Morrowind. An other became a werewolf, and also joined DB, while the other chars, don't do assassinations. I like that it looks as a new different adventure. Achievements reflect that.

To be honest, I would like to have an opt in for each char. Do you want global achievements on this char? Yes/No. And this will make everyone happy.

Jaraal

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

Katinas

Xarc wrote: »

why to mention "earned by XXX(character name)" in the tooltip ?
what is the point ?

This is so as to not have the future-wannabe-achievement-hunters to show how they have achieved something on one character what they obviously have not achieved on that character.

Saieden

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Jaraal

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

Saieden

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

Because (from all I've seen and read) they didn't implement a new underlying system for account wide achievements; they simply re-used the existing character-based system by merging the achievement data as you log in with a character for the first time into the new store, which is essentially a copy of the existing data-structures (minus the exceptions such as lorebooks, skyshards, etc.) and after that, all characters read and write to this singleton structure.

Example:

Character A has achievment X and 9/10 monster kills on Z, and B has Y, C has X and Y, and 1/10 monster kills on Z.
When A logs in, X is copied into the account, Y is still incomplete and progress for Z is counted.
When B logs in, Y is copied in and will see that A completed X, and the game will now forever treat B as having already completed X.
When C logs in, it read X and Y, and if the earned date on C is prior, they will now be attributed to C. C's progress on Z is also counted, bringing Z to completion, which is now (and forever more) attributed to C.

fizl101

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

I think you need to log into each of your characters the first time to pick up what they have all got so far, so you can then see if your character you tested with can see the zone completion or not

Dark_Lord_Kuro

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Edit
I would also like to add that we dont know of their future plan, they could be using this chage as the foundation to implement chross character acheivement like complete x acheivement on y number of class/ characters or reward at some treshold of acheivement point

Mephit

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

except that ZOS won't want to have to run both systems and track it. I do find it fascinating that your not willing to offer a compromise.

Also, your still not getting account wide motif knowledge. that is excluded and you are getting a section in the library that says what motifs you don't know.

And you know what? I want that. I want all of my characters progress to be tracked that way. you can have your account wide titles and achievements and points. I just want some list somewhere i can have my characters stories recorded. I want to be able to complete quests on one character and not have them impact the quests i complete on a second. thats all i want.

I guess its ok, the way things are looking and the way @ZOS_Kevin responded basically means you get what you want and i don't. Thats the way it goes sometimes. so congrats i guess.

As for me i have decisions to make. Like what do i do with my subscriptions and how much i want to continue to financially support this game. Not that ZOS cares about my money.

1. We have no statement(that i know of) that say that zos dont want both at the same time

2. I also find fascinating that you dont understand how a compromise work, in a fair compromise both side give up a bit to let the other get a bit more of what he want. In the case of a account overview, character wide supporter keep everything while account wide supporter dont get anything meaningfull

3. Never stated wee would get account wide knowledge of motif, it was intended as a comparrison to give the character wide supporter by replacing achievement by motif knowledge, i hoped the help yoou see how pointless it is to be able to see other characters acheivements

4. While i have no way to be 100% sure, the part where quest dont work on alts like the bard collège for exemple dont seems to be intended

5.the q&a could also be used as a sort of statement by the dev on why an annouced feature is canceled or to explain stuff like point 4 in more detail than a patch note could so i say at least wait for it before making any decisions

To repeat myself and be sure you understand
Im all in for a compromise but itt need to be a fair one for both side, one where both side dont get exactly what they whant in order for the other to get some of what the want or one wher both side get what they want
Think of character wide as 0-50 and acount wide as 51-100 i would consider 25-75 a fair compromise

Yeah, a compromise may well be needed.

A whole bunch of stuff should stay character level, and some things (by agreement / consideration) should become account wide, rather than this shoddy mess they have introduced.

I am cautious / err towards character level because it feels like a no return decision. They could move more to account wide over time. We will all have different opinions on what should / shouldn't be account wide, but it should be on a case by case basis because...

The thing that makes this more complicated than a simple compromise is that we are in danger losing content & associated history.

Your 25-75 model is "removing" 25 or more!

HumbleThaumaturge

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

I have questions for Q&A:
- What formal process does ZOS use before committing to making a change like this?
- What prompts ZOS to commit to a change?
- How many players requested this change? Did ZOS try to find out how many would be against the change? Did ZOS take a survey to determine what fraction of customers were for and against the proposed change?
- Who requested this change? Does ZOS listen most to a preferred ("trusted") group of players?

I am against this change. It is not a matter of "confusion" . . . I have been exploring the change on the test server (PTS) . . . it's right there to see . . . no confusion at all.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

Log in to each character to add their acheivement to the accound wide ''pool''
You will see character b achievement on character A only after you have loged in on character B in the first place

Just like when they added set reconstruction you had to log in to each alt to add their set to the list

silvereyes

Jaraal wrote: »

Saieden wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

Well, I just logged into the PTS after I got home from work and downloaded the patch. I logged in a character that has only done PvP, checked their available titles... and the only titles I could equip (I have many between all my characters) were the ones they actually earned from Cyrodiil. I went to a few zone quest starting locations, and I had the option to start the quests, as is normal. I went to some zone quest ending locations, and the NPCs that are there when you complete the quests were not there.

In other words.... achievements and titles appear to have been restored to normal! Now, I'm not going to get too excited, because I know there's still 3 weeks of PTS left...... but at least now I have hope that the game can continue as it was originally designed.

You need to log on with a second character to see the effects.

Huh? You don’t get account wide achievements on the first character? Weird.

What kinda wonky coding is that?

From the PTS week 1 patch notes:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• You will need to log in on each of your characters to register their Achievements and Titles (and if you delete a character before logging in as them, their achievement data will be lost!)

This is part of the reason why the "Earned by" tooltips can be so wonky. The order you log in can change who crosses the finish line first for some partial achievements: