PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

tmbrinks

willymancer69 wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

Typically, PTS patch X.1 does not have fixes/adjustments based on the feedback, you are looking for the X.2 patch which is coming next week I guess.

Those who have been around longer than I have, is this typically the case that these changes and comments come around Patch X.2? It's disturbing that we've had no comment from an admin in these forums or in the patch notes on the issue. We saw them respond in the Combat Preview thread, but nothing here..

Yes, major changes on the PTS typically don't happen until the X.2 patch.... most things in the X.1 patch are issues they already knew about before they released the X.0 patch.

They have very rarely changed anything once it's introduced on PTS. The only other major changes that they've backed out on were done in off-cycle trials on the PTS, so a different situation.

Other than the one-time @ZoS_Kevin said they were looking at our feedback, there's been nothing, and truthfully, I'd not really expect much else. It would certainly be nice to hear, but I don't have my hopes up. With the X.2 patch notes coming out on the 14th, and my sub running out on the 15th, that will be a major determinant in how I choose to financially support this game in the future.

Tandor

willymancer69 wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

Typically, PTS patch X.1 does not have fixes/adjustments based on the feedback, you are looking for the X.2 patch which is coming next week I guess.

Those who have been around longer than I have, is this typically the case that these changes and comments come around Patch X.2? It's disturbing that we've had no comment from an admin in these forums or in the patch notes on the issue. We saw them respond in the Combat Preview thread, but nothing here..

@ZOS_Kevin indicated earlier in this thread that they were watching the thread closely. Unfortunately, that's the limit of their communication despite the many pages that have been added since, almost all of the comments raising concerns and many of them requesting clarification of the reasoning behind the implementation of this change. I believe that this is one of those situations where it can be fairly said that the silence is deafening.

Tandor

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

silvereyes

willymancer69 wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

Typically, PTS patch X.1 does not have fixes/adjustments based on the feedback, you are looking for the X.2 patch which is coming next week I guess.

Those who have been around longer than I have, is this typically the case that these changes and comments come around Patch X.2?

If bug fixes aren't already in progress on day 1 of PTS, they probably won't be fixed the first week.

As for comments ... it's sadly fairly typical for noisy threads to be met with silence. Rich once said that threads they deem too "cranky" tend to get ignored. Not sure if that's what's going on here, or if there's some larger post coming, or if they are just overwhelmed or what.

I do remember during one PTS cycle when they moved Rapid Maneuver from Rank 2 to Rank 5, back when it was the only source of Major Gallop, Gina did reply to the thread and basically said that they were going forward as planned, but were listening to feedback. It didn't make anyone happy, but at least it was better than the typical silence.

Thankfully, they moved Major Gallop to the Rank 3 passive a few patches later, so they did listen. It just took a very long time.

silvereyes

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

Parasaurolophus

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

No. I've been playing the same since 2014.

IronWooshu

willymancer69 wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

Typically, PTS patch X.1 does not have fixes/adjustments based on the feedback, you are looking for the X.2 patch which is coming next week I guess.

Those who have been around longer than I have, is this typically the case that these changes and comments come around Patch X.2? It's disturbing that we've had no comment from an admin in these forums or in the patch notes on the issue. We saw them respond in the Combat Preview thread, but nothing here..

We've had no comment because they are probably gonna sweep it under the rug and double down on this mess.

Tandor

silvereyes wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Plus, of course, the critical problem that if this goes ahead and is then altered, the character-based data on which the original system was built will have been destroyed by this implementation of the new system, which means there's really only one chance to get it right.

We don't know that. Just because the player has no access to the data doesn't mean that it isn't being tracked somewhere behind the scenes.

That's why we would benefit from knowing why ZOS introduced this change, and in this way. If it was for performance reasons then there's less chance that all the existing system's data will be tracked, but I agree that we don't know for sure because we're not being told why the change was made and whether its current implementation on PTS is "working as intended".

willymancer69

Tandor wrote: »

willymancer69 wrote: »

Nemezijus wrote: »

Typically, PTS patch X.1 does not have fixes/adjustments based on the feedback, you are looking for the X.2 patch which is coming next week I guess.

Those who have been around longer than I have, is this typically the case that these changes and comments come around Patch X.2? It's disturbing that we've had no comment from an admin in these forums or in the patch notes on the issue. We saw them respond in the Combat Preview thread, but nothing here..

@ZOS_Kevin indicated earlier in this thread that they were watching the thread closely. Unfortunately, that's the limit of their communication despite the many pages that have been added since, almost all of the comments raising concerns and many of them requesting clarification of the reasoning behind the implementation of this change. I believe that this is one of those situations where it can be fairly said that the silence is deafening.

Yes, the silence is deafening.

Having no communication feels much worse than a definite direction that some of us may not agree with. At least we'd have an answer and could make respective decisions. Silence feels like lack of care and is anxiety-inducing.

Jaraal

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.

Why yes, actually I do. I made a goal years ago to get the Emperor achievement on all 16 of my characters. So far, I've gotten it on 8, and achieved it on every class in the game. I've invested thousands of hours of gameplay towards my specific goal, and when Update 33 drops, ZOS will unceremoniously "award" me the achievement on the rest.

I've already been playing less, as there's no reason for me to prepare my remaining characters for the achievement. And I can assure you that I'll never spend time on the Emp grind again. I'm also only one of countless others who will see less reason to play because of this change to a basic function of the game. It's your right to view things differently, but it doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way about it as you do. Nor should they.

tmbrinks

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.

Traits. all 18 characters know all of them
Motifs. I have 6 Grand Master Crafters, so they all know a lot of them
Multiple Trifectas. I have 3 characters w/ TTT, 2 characters w/ Godslayer, working on a second DB. I have multiple dungeon trifectas on many characters and roles.

How many people need to have counter-claims to yours to have you accept that others play the game differently and that this would devalue a lot of their efforts?

Mephit

@tmbrinks

Whilst I cannot compare with that dedication! we play much the same way...

Take the recent event.. some of my alts hadn't done the 30 world boss dailies in those zones, mostly cos I find many of those world bosses hard to solo and it is normally quiet when I play. I enjoyed taking my alts there each day to do the quests, and work through the achievement, but the event hadn't even finished before the PTS notes informed me I that I had been wasting my time...

Don't even get me started on Fishing, havocrels, oblivion portals...

Apparently we have been having fun wrong! how dare we enjoy replaying content!

ZOS_Kevin

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Basically, I would LOVE account-wide achievements if they were leaving individual toons exactly as they are-- Toons that earned a title can use the title, toons that haven't can't, etc, and we're adding a tab in your journal that showed your account-wide progress, that you could click on individual achievements and see which of your toons had earned them. That would be cool. That would be FUN.

This, as implemented, is awful. There's not one single thing I like about it.

That would also be useless

matterandstuff

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

It is deeply concerning if the developers' attitude is that the only issue with the implementation on the PTS is that there are "points of confusion". If that's genuinely the case, I hope they have fun explaining the unprecedented exodus of paying players that's about to hit the game.

Bootstomp

matterandstuff wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

It is deeply concerning if the developers' attitude is that the only issue with the implementation on the PTS is that there are "points of confusion". If that's genuinely the case, I hope they have fun explaining the unprecedented exodus of paying players that's about to hit the game.

Agreed. This is beyond ridiculous. There's no "confusion". It is [snip] up.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Tandor

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

That's seriously the company's response?

So where exactly are the points of confusion in reporting the myriad of issues that have been presented here as general feedback as requested by your good selves? Where have we got the wrong end of the stick? In what ways do they not add up to a massive hit on the replayability of the game by multiple characters?

Let me again pose two very simple questions, which hopefully you can answer:-

1. Why was the switch to account-wide achievements and titles made? Was it to meet player demand or for performance improvement?

2. Is the present implementation on PTS considered to be working as intended, and if not what kind of changes are proposed in order to make it so?

Thanks.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

kind_hero wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.
No, I still think we should have some sort of tool to see individual character progress. But achievements as a replay value incentive? Sorry but no.
P.S. no comments from developers. Well let's hope...

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value

Maybe it isn't for you because you come from a different game. But people who are playing ESO since 2014 got used with the system, and for many of us achievements in this game are an element of replay value. Besides, I might gave in a bit in this, if the game wasn't so much built around character achievements. There are so many character specific achievements, like exploring the current zone or getting all the skyshards in an area.

These are elements with replay value. Same with multiple check marks achievements, like public dungeon bosses, story progression such as grand adventurer. None says no to an account wide overview of achievements. People don't want their progress deleted, that's all.

Also, an other important issue here is not the idea itself. You may support it, fine, but you must admit that bugs and broken quests are not okay. So, at least taking this in account, this update should be considered and handled carefully. Right now it looks like a failed attempt to streamline the achievement system. It will *** many people off and will make veterans leave to new games. There is little for me to do on my alts if this goes live, because I am not going through the mess of figuring out what my alt has to do in an area, which bosses/delves/shards/parts of quests are done etc.

Account overview is completely useless
A opt-in/out would make a far better compromise as i would actually make both side happy rather than keeping it the same for some an giving a sorry excuse of a account wide feature to the rest,
its like saying instead of account wide motif knowlege, you will have a tab in the library telling you wich character as learned them.

Sure its not exactly the same thing but it still show how that sort of compromise really isnt helping

LtSnowballin

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Sounds great, thanks for continuing forward with this! Stay awesome!

Parasaurolophus

tmbrinks wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.

Traits. all 18 characters know all of them
Motifs. I have 6 Grand Master Crafters, so they all know a lot of them
Multiple Trifectas. I have 3 characters w/ TTT, 2 characters w/ Godslayer, working on a second DB. I have multiple dungeon trifectas on many characters and roles.

How many people need to have counter-claims to yours to have you accept that others play the game differently and that this would devalue a lot of their efforts?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. It's just... It's not clear to me. Of course you have done so much and it is important for you. But just... Why? What is the point of studying all the motive on all the characters? Or do 10 times master angler? I'm a 3x GH too, and sometimes I'm a stand-in in a raid that DB does. But I do it simply because I love the content and I enjoy spending time with the raid. And not because I need to get everything for all the characters. I can compare it to my favorite movie, for example. Yes, I like it and I'll be happy to watch it sometime. But this does not mean that I need to watch it every free day.
I just think that if such a system was implemented in the game from the very beginning, would anyone be against it? Or would this game be replayable? We can already use cosmetics, colors and souvenirs received by other characters. Someone was against? it also seems unfair if a low.lvl character rides a cat from SS. No one complains that SS lost replay value because the cat is given to the entire account. And the achievement, in fact, is the same award, even for someone less valuable than cosmetics.
That's it, let's imagine that if the pieces of the sets were to bind to only one character. So is the stickerbook. That would be fair. Some will say that it would be too much. But where is this border?
Again, I also don't like the way it's implemented on the PTS now. It's just interesting for me to communicate with people who are very sharply negative. Because even though I don't like what's on PTS right now, I want to express my opinion and show that there are other less radical opinions.
I understand that you have done too much within this system. But it seems to me that this is only because the system initially set such conditions. This system is bad and in order to move forward it must be destroyed and rebuilt.

Wolf_Eye

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Thank you for the update, I appreciate it

Parasaurolophus

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

That's seriously the company's response?

So where exactly are the points of confusion in reporting the myriad of issues that have been presented here as general feedback as requested by your good selves? Where have we got the wrong end of the stick? In what ways do they not add up to a massive hit on the replayability of the game by multiple characters?

Let me again pose two very simple questions, which hopefully you can answer:-

1. Why was the switch to account-wide achievements and titles made? Was it to meet player demand or for performance improvement?

2. Is the present implementation on PTS considered to be working as intended, and if not what kind of changes are proposed in order to make it so?

Thanks.

Why not? This is a rather serious issue, and rather, and seeing how many bugs appeared on the PTS because of this, I think we can assume that there are significant technical difficulties in resolving this issue. Therefore, it's unlikely that in a week we can get something like "hello guys! we'll do everything right now in accordance with your desires. don't be angry! cheer=3"!

Regarding replay value, quite a few people here have left detailed comments that this is unlikely to lead to a loss of replay value, since now it will be possible to complete content with different characters without worrying about losing progress.

silvereyes

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

Thank you, @ZOS_Kevin! Good to know that there will be some more clarity coming.

tmbrinks

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.

Traits. all 18 characters know all of them
Motifs. I have 6 Grand Master Crafters, so they all know a lot of them
Multiple Trifectas. I have 3 characters w/ TTT, 2 characters w/ Godslayer, working on a second DB. I have multiple dungeon trifectas on many characters and roles.

How many people need to have counter-claims to yours to have you accept that others play the game differently and that this would devalue a lot of their efforts?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. It's just... It's not clear to me. Of course you have done so much and it is important for you. But just... Why? What is the point of studying all the motive on all the characters? Or do 10 times master angler? I'm a 3x GH too, and sometimes I'm a stand-in in a raid that BD does. But I do it simply because I love the content and I enjoy spending time with the raid. And not because I need to get everything for all the characters. I can compare it to my favorite movie, for example. Yes, I like it and I'll be happy to watch it sometime. But this does not mean that I need to watch it every free day.
I just think that if such a system was implemented in the game from the very beginning, would anyone be against it? Or would this game be replayable? We can already use cosmetics, flowers and souvenirs received by other characters. Someone was against? Vedt also seems unfair if a low.lvl character rides a cat from SS. No one complains that SS lost replay value because the cat is given for the entire account. And the achievement, in fact, is the same award, even for someone less valuable than cosmetics.
That's it, let's imagine that if the pieces of the sets were to bind to only one character. So is the stickerbook. That would be fair. Some will say that it would be too much. But where is this border?
Again, I also don't like the way it's implemented on the PTS now. It's just interesting for me to communicate with people who are very sharply negative. Because even though I don't like what's on PTS right now, I want to express my opinion and show that there are other less radical opinions.
I understand that you have done too much within this system. But it seems to me that this is only because the system initially set such conditions. This system is bad and in order to move forward it must be destroyed and rebuilt.

I think the game already has a good mix of account-wide and character based things available to it.

Dyes, emotes, mounts, gear, champion points, style pages, housing, cosmetics are all account wide

Titles, achievements, motifs, research are character bound.

So, we're taking at least half of the character only things (including the largest in my opinion, achievements and the replayability that goes with that) to the already large "account wide" bin.

No, had this been designed this way from the beginning it wouldn't be an "issue"... but I SPECIFICALLY CHOSE to continue to play ESO because of the individualization of the characters. There are other MMOs (with account-wide achievements from the start) that have aspects to them (combat, pvp, crafting systems, etc...) better than ESO that I will likely play more of, because one thing that made ESO UNIQUE from them is being trashed after 8 years.

Mephit

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I have taken this as an opportunity to delete a few one-off characters. These won't have any achievements that need to be shared with everyone else. If ZOS backs off, I am not losing anything and it won't hurt anything. If ZOS goes forward, I will have less to do when I scale back to my account-character.

It would be considerate of them to offer refunds for the soon to be unnecessary extra character slots we purchased, and the skill lines we purchased to level them up quicker or make them more useful, but we know that will never happen.

I just wonder why they would want to hurt their bottom line by eliminating replayability and the desire to level new characters this way. It doesn't make much sense from a business standpoint.

Because simply getting achievements is not an element of replay value. Can you close GS, TTT or PB on multiple characters? Do you also study all the motives on each character, even the most expensive ones? Do you learn all the traits on every character? I'm sure not.

Traits. all 18 characters know all of them
Motifs. I have 6 Grand Master Crafters, so they all know a lot of them
Multiple Trifectas. I have 3 characters w/ TTT, 2 characters w/ Godslayer, working on a second DB. I have multiple dungeon trifectas on many characters and roles.

How many people need to have counter-claims to yours to have you accept that others play the game differently and that this would devalue a lot of their efforts?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. It's just... It's not clear to me. Of course you have done so much and it is important for you. But just... Why? What is the point of studying all the motive on all the characters? Or do 10 times master angler? I'm a 3x GH too, and sometimes I'm a stand-in in a raid that BD does. But I do it simply because I love the content and I enjoy spending time with the raid. And not because I need to get everything for all the characters. I can compare it to my favorite movie, for example. Yes, I like it and I'll be happy to watch it sometime. But this does not mean that I need to watch it every free day.
I just think that if such a system was implemented in the game from the very beginning, would anyone be against it? Or would this game be replayable? We can already use cosmetics, flowers and souvenirs received by other characters. Someone was against? Vedt also seems unfair if a low.lvl character rides a cat from SS. No one complains that SS lost replay value because the cat is given for the entire account. And the achievement, in fact, is the same award, even for someone less valuable than cosmetics.
That's it, let's imagine that if the pieces of the sets were to bind to only one character. So is the stickerbook. That would be fair. Some will say that it would be too much. But where is this border?
Again, I also don't like the way it's implemented on the PTS now. It's just interesting for me to communicate with people who are very sharply negative. Because even though I don't like what's on PTS right now, I want to express my opinion and show that there are other less radical opinions.
I understand that you have done too much within this system. But it seems to me that this is only because the system initially set such conditions. This system is bad and in order to move forward it must be destroyed and rebuilt.

We have already answered your question - because we enjoy it. You don’t have to understand why we enjoy playing that way, and we don’t expect you to. We just want you to understand that “people are different”.

Master angler… because it is a challenge. Sometimes I get an urge to go again, to get those little warm feelings when I clear a zone, a faction… I get a buzz from that.

Is there nothing in the game you want to do twice? What if they changed that to once per account?

I’m all for adding content, but this is removing content and our hard work with it!

silvereyes

matterandstuff wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

It is deeply concerning if the developers' attitude is that the only issue with the implementation on the PTS is that there are "points of confusion". If that's genuinely the case, I hope they have fun explaining the unprecedented exodus of paying players that's about to hit the game.

Let's try to stay positive. We know they are still listening, and we know they plan to clarify things, which we've been asking them to do. Hopefully, that Q & A will include things like:

• Design goals
• Whether the transition planned will destroy character journal information or whether it can be re-added in a later update
• Whether what we see on PTS is still a work in progress, or whether there will substantial fixes to things like quest, world events, world bosses and delve tracking to work off of the character journal instead of achievements.
• Whether the "Known by" tooltips will offer any customization.
• Whether there will be any performance improvements as a result of the transition to AwA
• Whether this transition is a pivot to allow further account-wide features in the future, like motifs.
• What their plans are for players to track individual character progression are, if they can't use the achievements journal any longer.
• If they plan to add any sort of popup notifications when people clear content on new characters.

festegios

Jumping in to say personally I like this change 🤷‍♂️

Understand that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea though 👌

Dojohoda

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone. Thanks for your continued feedback regarding Global Achievements. As we noted previously, we are keeping track of this thread. We will be working on a Q&A to clarify some points of confusion regarding Global Achievements based on some questions and comments we've seen. We'll follow up once the Q&A is available to read. Thanks for your continued patience.

@ZOS_Kevin I have a question to add to @Tandor 's questions at: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7517146/#Comment_7517146
I like this game very much and would like to know:
If this goes through, will we no longer have access to each of our character's individual achievements that are both completed and not yet completed along with the dates exactly like we have currently? (If we are losing the individual character achievement list, I would like to know why.)

Skroogemcduk

How much longer before the pts maintenance is done?

IronWooshu

I'm not sure on what that statement from Kevin is reassuring to people. What's on the PTS is terrible, what possible defense is this Q&A gonna come up with defending this trash implementation?

That's how I read it, "let us explain why it's like this way" as they double down on this terrible implementation.