PvPers how does this make you feel?

Rohamad_Ali

Oh it's his wife? I'm going to walk away now... an stealth into a bush.

neferpitou73

Just a couple points on the discussion here. This will likely come out more harsh than I mean it to so my apologies:

1.) The reason the devs get comments like this is that after several "years of performance fixes" the game's performance is tanking. This discussion and those comments wouldn't be happening if ZOS had done anything to address this besides "we're working on it." Wich, with all due respect, noone is buying anymore. If the issues are so bad they cannot be fixed then at this point I'm sure many would give ZOS more credit if they just came out and said "We're not sure what's wrong, we don't know how to fix it, we're trying, sorry" I realize they probably can't do that for legal reasons but we've reached the point where it's become a PR disaster: the devs appear either incredibly incompetent or egregiously neglectful.

And while I won't harp on it here, all of the solutions they've tested to fix these problems have only alienated more people.

2.) None of this is helped by ZOS' horrible communication in general. What do I mean by this? Bugs/cheaters are left unaddressed for months, simple questions are left unanswered despite devs being pinged multiple times. The changes in meta seem completely random and counterintuitive. It's a common joke among PvPers that the devs don't even play their own game because a lot of what they put out just doesn't make sense. To my knowledge there is still no *in-game* notice of what sets are working in Ravenwatch; apparently players should figure it out for themselves. Add to that the devs backpedaling and indecisiveness (see the recent BG fiasco) and it doesn't paint a good picture.

Since communication is apparently trying to be improved here's a couple of tips:

--Do not rely on the forums for feedback. Forums represent a small portion of the playerbase that either worship the game or angry enough to come to complain.

--Devs should actually be *playing* the content they create or at the very least talking to people who play it to give feedback on their ideas. *Anyone* who's ever been near a ball group could've told them dark convergence was a horrible idea

--Game updates/check-ins need to come more frequently. We shouldn't have to wait 3 months to get aknowledgement/fix for a broken mechanic/set

I also want to note that I don't blame Rich for what his wife said, he has no control over another person's actions. But the fact that it was said on a lead developer's stream with him present doesn't paint a good picture for ZOS and gives a bad impression of what he might be saying in private.

gronoxvx

Amazed this thread has lasted as long as it has. Would have expected it to be deleted straight away.

As a somewhat pvper this is just stupid to see, but reinforces why so many people are leaving and will never come back or trust another zos product again.

I know if it wasnt for me being in a pve prog team id have quit a long time ago.

MindOfTheSwarm

Cyro just needs a new life breathed into it. It’s hard to balance what is essentially a melting pot of random toons. With a plethora of different loadouts. It is inevitable you will come across someone you just simply can’t beat due to their loadout no matter how good you are.

Wolfpaw

For those that think this game doesn't need PvP to be successful, or this group X spends more money, I would suggest that ESO's success and future is because of it all. PvE, PvP, & everything in-between.

Back on topic, this video is unfortunate. I do enjoy his streams and communication.

AuraNebula

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

You ignored everything I said haha

Gederic

The creative director's wife made a comment that people don't like about pvp??





But for real.

Imagine joining a personal stream and hijacking a conversation on accessibility in game design and being immediately dismissed by the creative director's wife due to the extreme bait of your *** little comment and having so little to actually be offended by that you have to make a whole huge scene and pretend like being immediately dismissed by the creative director's wife is somehow acting as an official announcement from zos that is indicative of a massive conspiracy and company wide belief that they must bite the hand that feeds. All this after you trolled for a comment during a conversation with a vision impaired gamer on how they can improve the game for them. Brilliant truly. Heads must surely roll for this... Someone must be made unemployed because I am offended!! Have you people actually gone back to look at the stream and the context of this or are you just content with a twenty second snippet to get you this upsetti in your spaghetti. If its the latter please choose to express your opinions to Rich Lambert by withholding your credit card and valuable time from him and his [snip] game.

I don't make a habit of defending ZOS or the sorry state of pvp in this game. But this... Really? It must be real fun acting as a professional victim. But honestly, probably gonna get more done for this game by dropping the fake outrage and twitch bait. Maybe go communicate with him sometime instead.. He only streams like gee every other day. But I guess frequent and direct access to the creative director just really isn't enough. Better to continue to attempt to bait him or his family for that youtube video and forum/reddit clout then engage in anything meaningful about this game that we all allegedly love.

[snip]

[edited problematic content]

SeaGtGruff

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I'm not a pvp'er and I'm disgusted by this response from the devs. It's childish and unprofessional. So dissapointed in the company that they'd let their representatives behave this way towards their userbase. Even if the userbase itself doesn't always behave respectfully, it doesn't mean your reps need to sink to that level. Gross.

It wasn't a "response from the devs." She isn't one of "their [ZOS's] representatives." She isn't one of "your [ZOS's] reps." She has as much right to her personal opinion as anyone else does, and her personal opinion in no way represents ZOS's opinions any more than yours or mine do.

Note, I didn't see the stream, haven't watched the clip, and don't particularly care what a private individual who isn't a ZOS employee said about the ESO playerbase. I'm neither defending nor attacking her comments, just cautioning everyone against jumping to erroneous conclusions, because that isn't helpful.

SeaGtGruff

The_Lex wrote: »

If we would have said this on ZOS’ Twitch stream chat or here on the forums, the comment would have been immediately deleted and we would have been banned.

Double standard? Come on, ZOS, do better!

Rich's channel is his personal channel, not one of ZOS's or Bethesda's channels.

Muskrap

Madhatten512 wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Whilst it isn't professional, or nice, it was his wife saying it, on a personal stream, who has no affiliation with the game.

I am sure everyone gets frustrated, Rich Lambert does stream very often and I haven't heard of him personally bad-mouthing anyone whilst constantly being asked about the game and his work for hours on end.

I certainly couldn't be asked questions on my job for hours on end and never slip up.

His wife does sit there and listen to him answer questions often, he has been asked that question many times and has always AFAIK, answered it respectfully saying that they have an engineering team assigned to the issue with the purpose of working on a way to improve the lag in Cyrodiil.

It was his wife 'defending' him, if you want to hear his answer to the question he does answer it often, and always in a respectful way.

Yeah, I am sure that if someone affiliated with me, while I am in attendance, in front of clients (us players and the stream watchers who play the game are essentially clients), talks down to said clients, this would go over well with my job because I am doing my own personal stream.

Not really though. I'd certainly be fired, or at minimum reprimanded, for that. The fact is, even on his stream, Rich is a representative of the company, and especially if he is answering questions about the game he represents. So yeah, this is pretty egregious imo.

Of course, all I am saying is to please remember the human.

It is a 22 second clip from a 3-4 hour stream, of which he does 4 of a week and it's not him saying it.

Rich Lambert does sit there and answer countless questions about the game and his work, communicating with players answering their questions, unfortunately, things like this will reduce the amount of communication developers will give because it is impossible to control the other person in the room.

If his wife has the nerve to say that in public imagine what he is saying in private

Thats what im saying, this doesnt make anyone feel like the situation is taken seriously

ArchangelIsraphel

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I'm not a pvp'er and I'm disgusted by this response from the devs. It's childish and unprofessional. So dissapointed in the company that they'd let their representatives behave this way towards their userbase. Even if the userbase itself doesn't always behave respectfully, it doesn't mean your reps need to sink to that level. Gross.

It wasn't a "response from the devs." She isn't one of "their [ZOS's] representatives." She isn't one of "your [ZOS's] reps." She has as much right to her personal opinion as anyone else does, and her personal opinion in no way represents ZOS's opinions any more than yours or mine do.

Note, I didn't see the stream, haven't watched the clip, and don't particularly care what a private individual who isn't a ZOS employee said about the ESO playerbase. I'm neither defending nor attacking her comments, just cautioning everyone against jumping to erroneous conclusions, because that isn't helpful.

It's an understandable mistake to make when a zos employee let's a family member voice an option and respond to players on their stream, misinterpretation are easily made. She certainly behaves as if she thinks her opinion had official weight due to her husband's position. I stand corrected on that aspect, as do many others here, given that we've all learned more about rich and this individual since the thread began. However my opinion that it's a disgrace to the image of the company still stands, as he did nothing to stop her from demeaning an entire portion of the user base in his stream. It's not good PR when your a dev and you let your wife talk down to the people who pay to play the product you represent. (And he does represent it, whether the stream is private or official. )

I will go back and make a small edit to my initial post, to avert additional confusion. But I will leave the original in tact for reference purposes.

RicAlmighty

This is pretty tone deaf and irresponsible. Rich is responsible for the content of his stream, regardless of who is speaking. To just flat out insult your players is kind of mind boggling and definitely a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it works out for him.

The folks white knighting for Rich in here are simply wrong. There is no scenario in which this is acceptable. It may not matter to you; hell, it may not matter to anyone in the grand scheme of things, but to just hand wave it away is as tone deaf as the original comment. Stop apologizing for poor behavior and start asking for better. Unless you have such little self respect that you are ok with being insulted by people you willingly give time and money to?

Nogawd

If I go on my YouTube channel and any of my friends say anything negative about my day job, you bet your guar I would hear about it or be handed my release.

Ksariyu

So, reasons why Rich's stream shouldn't be recommended as a source of development insight.

But really though, for all the negative responses to this, nobody's going to leave the game. The "explosive" responses from all these "disgusted" players will die down in a day and they'll be back in Cyro/BGs still waiting on performance updates.

b101uk

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

ArchangelIsraphel

Nogawd wrote: »

If I go on my YouTube channel and any of my friends say anything negative about my day job, you bet your guar I would hear about it or be handed my release.

Exactly this. If I were streaming content on a private twitch concerning my job doing art for a specific company, and I let a relative sit and insult a customer asking a question about when an alteration is to be made to a piece, I'd be looking for a new job tomorrow. The customer would report me to the company immediately, and they'd be right to do so.

By no means do I want rich to loose his position. But I hope he has a good long think about what all of this means and the ramifications.

neferpitou73

Wolfpaw wrote: »

For those that think this game doesn't need PvP to be successful, or this group X spends more money, I would suggest that ESO's success and future is because of it all. PvE, PvP, & everything in-between.

Back on topic, this video is unfortunate. I do enjoy his streams and communication.

Agreed on both points.

I forgot the address this in my post but the idea that "PvPers" don't spend money is just nonsense. As someone pointed out in order to be a good pvper you have to be at least a decent pver. Heck half the sets my ball group runs come from DLC dungeons/Arenas

I cannot tell you how many players I've known over the years who started as endgame PvErs deciding to give PvP a shot and become some of the best and most dedicated players I have seen. There is a good overlap between endgame PvErs and PvPers.

Having that overlap is a good thing. I wouldn't be playing PvE if it wasn't for PvP

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

You know for all the (not wholely undeserved) flack PvP players get for being toxic; I've never once heard PvP players calling for PvE content to be removed from the game, calling PvErs crybabies for a boss glitching etc or outright dismissing PvE concerns as many seem to be doing on this thread including yourself in this post.

The fact is that in behaving as ZOS is doing they are unnecessarily giving themselves a bad name and losing money and customers however small amount it would be.

SidraWillowsky

I'm not much a PvPer, but this made me furious and then deeply saddened for the people who enjoy the PvP in this game. What a slap in the face, and everyone -PvPers *and* PvErs alike- now sees how they seem to feel about their customers.

I don't care that this isn't an official stream. I don't care that it's his wife saying this, not him. It doesn't matter, not in this case-- he plays a huge role in the design of a massive game in an extremely prominent franchise. That he sits there quietly while she says this stuff in the first place is appalling. She basically told dissatisfied PvPers to take a L and go play another game (in a different video in this thread, not OP's)... what sort of company is OK with the spouse of one of their senior employees telling people not to buy their stuff? They're raking in serious profits from other sources for it not to matter, I guess...

I feel like fast food workers and grocery store clerks are held to higher standards than this...

Gederic

What ramifications? Enduring another forum thread next week full of fake and hilarious outrage over something irrelevant and written by people who will continue to play and pay regardless of all that totally real anger? Think he might just be okay.

ArchangelIsraphel

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

You're missing the point that it isn't about the money when it comes to standing against this stuff. It's about players putting aside these attempts to create a division between the pve and pvp player base over things like "who represents more value" and realizing that when it comes to the bigger picture, if pve players let pvp players get pushed around and mocked, then it won't be limited to them. We can't pretend what happens to pvpers has nothing to do with us. If they talk like this about them and treat them like this, then they'll learn they can do it with pve concerns too, regardless of whatever monetary value we have. As pve players, we need to support pvp players who share the game with us.

Arthtur

So because PvP players are minority we can insult them now. Nice. I guess PvE endgame players are next. I cant wait for removing DLC Dungeons so those "Majority PvE" players can get a new zone. And after them Housing community. /s

On the other hand im sure we will get something on Twitter. Like "what do you guys think is an offical statement?". Because we have such great communication. /s

Anyway, what's the point of offical forums at this point? So players have place to complain and ZOS can ignore them? Kinda weak.

AuraNebula

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

PvE has the majority because PvP has been broken for years. Players leave because of the poor performance. How can PvP ever grow if it doesn't work?

Btw this game was supposed to be mainly PvP based when it launched.

auz

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

Not sure where you get your information that they don't want to spend money on pvp, but we have it, on good authority, from Rich, himself, and now his wife, that they are working on fixing Cyrodiil. They must be spending a fortune too, because they have been working on it for years. 🤣🤣🤣

Indigogo

I don't have the energy to get angry. However the secondhand embarrassment is like all 9 seasons of The Office rolled into one

Cringe. On so many levels...

Reverb

It makes me feel…nothing. I feel nothing.

If you look back at my posts you’ll see that I’ve been passionately commenting on and advocating for eso pvp from the beginning. 2021 finally broke me down. I logged out of cyrodiil and never went back. No BG, no IC, no duels.

I have no anger or even annoyance over this stream, because I feel nothing for eso pvp. It is nothing to me now.

Araneae6537

Well, that was not put well, but I also feel many of the posts in this thread are overreacting or being hyperbolic. I don’t think that helps anything either.

b101uk

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

You're missing the point that it isn't about the money when it comes to standing against this stuff. It's about players putting aside these attempts to create a division between the pve and pvp player base over things like "who represents more value" and realizing that when it comes to the bigger picture, if pve players let pvp players get pushed around and mocked, then it won't be limited to them. We can't pretend what happens to pvpers has nothing to do with us. If they talk like this about them and treat them like this, then they'll learn they can do it with pve concerns too, regardless of whatever monetary value we have.

The reality is ESO is a revenue stream, there is NO point in trying to pretend that fact is not relevant, or that player numbers who are orientated to one aspect in the main and not another aspect as a whole don't exert a monetary pressure to push game content development towards one form of play over another.


the reality is, there WILL always be a division between the PvE and PvP player base, given some of the negative effects in both are a direct result of trying to support both, and if you want to talk about the bigger picture, then don't ignore big aspects of the bigger picture like business, revenue stream, numbers of people, what pushes developed content in a specific direction, what consumes development time, and the very very simple reality that PvP is a sideshow in ESO.

it seams to me that the wife of someone utilising a bit of lightly mockery is enough to get the professional victims in a tizzy, spouting what if's, rather than taking it for the fact that is was NOTHING more than the wife of someone using lightly mockery.

neferpitou73

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

You're missing the point that it isn't about the money when it comes to standing against this stuff. It's about players putting aside these attempts to create a division between the pve and pvp player base over things like "who represents more value" and realizing that when it comes to the bigger picture, if pve players let pvp players get pushed around and mocked, then it won't be limited to them. We can't pretend what happens to pvpers has nothing to do with us. If they talk like this about them and treat them like this, then they'll learn they can do it with pve concerns too, regardless of whatever monetary value we have.

The reality is ESO is a revenue stream, there is NO point in trying to pretend that fact is not relevant, or that player numbers who are orientated to one aspect in the main and not another aspect as a whole don't exert a monetary pressure to push game content development towards one form of play over another.


the reality is, there WILL always be a division between the PvE and PvP player base, given some of the negative effects in both are a direct result of trying to support both, and if you want to talk about the bigger picture, then don't ignore big aspects of the bigger picture like business, revenue stream, numbers of people, what pushes developed content in a specific direction, what consumes development time, and the very very simple reality that PvP is a sideshow in ESO.

it seams to me that the wife of someone utilising a bit of lightly mockery is enough to get the professional victims in a tizzy, spouting what if's, rather than taking it for the fact that is was NOTHING more than the wife of someone using lightly mockery.

Can we please stop trying to divide the pvp and pve communities and just agree while the game comment was poorly timed in that stream the reaction shown in the video was unprofessional and inappropriate?

b101uk

AuraNebula wrote: »

PvE has the majority because PvP has been broken for years. Players leave because of the poor performance. How can PvP ever grow if it doesn't work?

Btw this game was supposed to be mainly PvP based when it launched.

funny that, the few times I have been in the PvP areas, it has worked fine, but maybe that's the joys of a 2016 PC (or a 2012 PC before that) and crappy ASDL.

yes that why when it launched it had just one area dedicated to PvP and that most of the game content was outside that area and was PvE orientated.

ArchangelIsraphel

neferpitou73 wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

you totally miss the point that the PvP focused players are the minority, the PvE focused players are the majority, the bottom line is there is far more money to be had and far more people being kept happy with the PvE side of things, i.e. it would matter not is the average PvP player spends x3 the amount that your average PvE player spends, as it would still fall massively short of the PvE focused revenue.

the cold hard bitter pill is, if the revenue stream from the PvP side of things was far more tangible and closer on par with that of the PvE focused revenue stream then there would be more PvP orientated content, and more time and effort would be given to fixes.

Is it any wander the PvP community gets lightly mocked when many seam to be oblivious to the reality of business, and that PvP is nothing but a sideshow in ESO that the majority has little to no interest in.

You're missing the point that it isn't about the money when it comes to standing against this stuff. It's about players putting aside these attempts to create a division between the pve and pvp player base over things like "who represents more value" and realizing that when it comes to the bigger picture, if pve players let pvp players get pushed around and mocked, then it won't be limited to them. We can't pretend what happens to pvpers has nothing to do with us. If they talk like this about them and treat them like this, then they'll learn they can do it with pve concerns too, regardless of whatever monetary value we have.

The reality is ESO is a revenue stream, there is NO point in trying to pretend that fact is not relevant, or that player numbers who are orientated to one aspect in the main and not another aspect as a whole don't exert a monetary pressure to push game content development towards one form of play over another.


the reality is, there WILL always be a division between the PvE and PvP player base, given some of the negative effects in both are a direct result of trying to support both, and if you want to talk about the bigger picture, then don't ignore big aspects of the bigger picture like business, revenue stream, numbers of people, what pushes developed content in a specific direction, what consumes development time, and the very very simple reality that PvP is a sideshow in ESO.

it seams to me that the wife of someone utilising a bit of lightly mockery is enough to get the professional victims in a tizzy, spouting what if's, rather than taking it for the fact that is was NOTHING more than the wife of someone using lightly mockery.

Can we please stop trying to divide the pvp and pve communities and just agree while the game comment was poorly timed in that stream the reaction shown in the video was unprofessional and inappropriate?

Well said, my feelings exactly. The fact that this was inappropriate has nothing to do with revenue.