PvPers how does this make you feel?

Tannus15

The pain in Rich's face as Terri says that makes it all worth it.

Yasha

Vevvev wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Nightlord wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

This is not attacking the devs. It is not even taken out of context. If you watch more the bashing actually continues on PvPers.

No it doesn't, lol.

Oh sweet summer child. Go PvP somewhere else.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/923741471687991349/930538389562867742/qw84o0.mp4

I have never liked Terri's thoughts when it comes to this sort of stuff. She has no love or care at all in her heart and there's even more rants by her on PvP. Like this one where she goes on and on about how she doesn't understand why people PvP.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1244230881?t=02h38m33s

I honestly find that shocking. This is the daily input ESO's creative director is getting from his closest confidant, or maybe that explains a lot? Wouldn't ESO be better if they just turned Cyrodiil and IC into purely pve zones? Then they could also get rid of all those horrible crybaby pvpers as well.

Wolfpaw

"PvPers how does this make you feel?"

Best to keep this comment as this.

Vevvev

Yasha wrote: »

Wouldn't ESO be better if they just turned Cyrodiil and IC into purely pve zones? Then they could also get rid of all those horrible crybaby pvpers as well.

No, then I'd leave because I came here for the PvP primarily. The PvE and RP I do I wouldn't be doing if Cyrodiil didn't exist. If I'm not PvPing I'll chill out with some housing, help friends out in PvE activities, and sometimes fish, but my primary reason for playing ESO is the large scale siege fights. Take those away and I'm gone.

Edit to include the video that brought me here in the first place. I played Oblivion and Skyrim and wanted to experience and take part in non-scripted large scale fights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQFxE4AESn4

Rohamad_Ali

They should hire Tharn for their pvp spokesman. That way the insults are at least funny an less painful from a NPC.

Amottica

Wow. I am surprised to see someone that seems to be speaking for Zenimax and Rich is standing behind them mock players in such a manner. Very unprofessional in any type of business and especially an executive with the company behind her.

Not saying they are incorrect but it is just something that is not done like that.

Xandreia_

@ZOS_GinaBruno might be time to manage the community and start up that communication you were talking about! This is horrendous and we kinda deserve not only an apology but actions!

Sylvermynx

Eh, I'm not at all invested in pvp any more (I was at one point, years and years back in WoW, but not now). However.... this is just.... um. I can't say what I want to say and not get perm banned.

Serious. If this was something I did anywhere I worked in the 40 years I spent in the workforce.... I'd have been insta-fired - and I'm pretty sure I'd never have got a job outside of housekeeping at a crap motel thereafter.

I'm appalled.

SerafinaWaterstar

Oh good gods people get a grip!

Stop getting all worked up over nothing.

Oh no, someone said something ‘bad’ or ‘disrespectful’ on social media.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist, making mountains out of molehills & behaving as if this was ‘so shocking’.

Take a deep breath in. Then out. Then in again. Then out. Look out the window. Go outside & feel the sun on your face. Listen to the birdsong.

Some things are worth getting upset about. Some are not.

VaranisArano

I don't watch streams.

I do think that if Rich Lambert doesn't want his personal streams pored over for information, used for Q&A about ESO's technical issues, or his word taken as gospel, then the communication team needs to step up and start providing those things on a more official basis.

Gina Bruno asked on Twitter what we meant we we said we wanted better communication.

Players crave information. Players crave two-way conversations. Even when the answers are unsatisfying, it's still good to know that the Devs know what's going on with the massive problems we see with performance.

If the only place players feel they can get those conversations and answers are a Dev's personal stream, then what's said on that stream is going to continue to be blown out of proportion to its significance.

That's something for the communications team to consider.


As for PVP, my guild up and left for New World due to Cyrodiil's performance issues that show no sign of improvement in the future. I'm frustrated. On my bad days, I feel a ton of resentment for the Devs who - no matter how much they undoubtedly love ESO - will never experience losing the ability to play with the friends I played with for years because of their failure to fix Cyrodiil. As far as I know, none of the Devs who play ESO do so with a tight knit PVP guild.

But on my good days, which are most of the time, I remember that it's no one Dev's fault, and in all likelihood, their hands are tied by years of spaghetti code. It's probably pretty soulcrushing to see that your flagship PVP zone is still bleeding players even after you've slashed it down to a vestige of its former self (pun intended), and you still can't fix it. It's probably pretty soulcrushing to deal with angry, frustrated players having bad days, day after day, when there's nothing you can do directly to make the situation better.

So as much as I'd like the Devs to have a little more empathethic communication with the justifiable frustrated PVP community, I also try to remember that it's worth being empathetic with the Devs. Taking the heat for something you personally can't fix sucks.

Nogawd

As a player since beta...

They thought the pvp would be THE content for this game. It's clear their servers/technology could not handle it and they saw this huge opportunity to market to the uber casual and have not looked back since.

I have watched some streams and saw some comments here and there. Combine that wit their efforts/results with pvp content, they are basically asking the pvpers to quit without directly asking them.

It's just clear to me. I don't know why they won't just pull them plug on pvp in this game and not waste any more of their resources on it. They probably are just miking them for what ever bit of extra revenue they can until the pvpers just quit.

The writing is officially on the wall.

Destai

redspecter23 wrote: »

It was definitely a bit harsh, but I value the honesty of both Rich and Terri on the stream. I don't always agree with everything that gets said, but I'd rather have the painful truth than a lie or paltitude that's easier to swallow.

PvP is a mess. They know this. They don't want it to be a mess and are trying. It may never be fixed. Yes, it gets tiresome answering the same questions over and over again. I'd like to think that if I were live streaming, I'd occasionally say things people find distasteful but hopefully I wouldn't have people hold it over me forever.

I value their honesty, I just don't value that they can't take it back.

All this does is incense the playerbase and create animosity towards them and the game. I'd be fired if I did this to a client.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I don't watch streams.

I do think that if Rich Lambert doesn't want his personal streams pored over for information, used for Q&A about ESO's technical issues, or his word taken as gospel, then the communication team needs to step up and start providing those things on a more official basis.

Gina Bruno asked on Twitter what we meant we we said we wanted better communication.

Players crave information. Players crave two-way conversations. Even when the answers are unsatisfying, it's still good to know that the Devs know what's going on with the massive problems we see with performance.

If the only place players feel they can get those conversations and answers are a Dev's personal stream, then what's said on that stream is going to continue to be blown out of proportion to its significance.

That's something for the communications team to consider.


As for PVP, my guild up and left for New World due to Cyrodiil's performance issues that show no sign of improvement in the future. I'm frustrated. On my bad days, I feel a ton of resentment for the Devs who - no matter how much they undoubtedly love ESO - will never experience losing the ability to play with the friends I played with for years because of their failure to fix Cyrodiil. As far as I know, none of the Devs who play ESO do so with a tight knit PVP guild.

But on my good days, which are most of the time, I remember that it's no one Dev's fault, and in all likelihood, their hands are tied by years of spaghetti code. It's probably pretty soulcrushing to see that your flagship PVP zone is still bleeding players even after you've slashed it down to a vestige of its former self (pun intended), and you still can't fix it. It's probably pretty soulcrushing to deal with angry, frustrated players having bad days, day after day, when there's nothing you can do directly to make the situation better.

So as much as I'd like the Devs to have a little more empathethic communication with the justifiable frustrated PVP community, I also try to remember that it's worth being empathetic with the Devs. Taking the heat for something you personally can't fix sucks.

I empathize with the average dev who has to work through whatever technical debt and deadlines they're given. Rich? None. Not at anymore. His streams shredded any respect I had for him. There's been oodles of mistakes, but between this and the monetization fiasco a few weeks ago, I see him in a very negative light. He maligned how players always complain about certain things in the store and then goes onto the defend it and say he'd never break our trust - seems inconsistent. His twitch mod banned me for sharing the video from sawmanuk when someone explicitly asked me for what video was being discussed - you know, the one where Rich called a prominent content creator an idiot. So he doesn't respect content creators, can't fix pvp in 4+ years and then has his wife on his stream insulting his playerbase who are complaining about problems his developers created and can't fix. For shame.

I love this game, I love this IP, but it deserves better leadership.

dinokstrunz

Pretty trash response, if it was an actual dev that would've resulted in punishment/sacking for sure. But how much longer are ZoS going to keep up the "We're working on it" charade? I does feel like that ZoS don't want business with those who's primary focus is on PvP.

Destai

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Pretty trash response, if it was an actual dev that would've resulted in punishment/sacking for sure. But how much longer are ZoS going to keep up the "We're working on it" charade? I does feel like that ZoS don't want business with those who's primary focus is on PvP.

It's funny because I don't feel like anyone believes it anymore.

Leogon

Vevvev wrote: »

Ah yes, this kind of attitude went oh so well for the Star Trek Online PvP community. Surely they're still there, right? Oh right.... they all left after all the abuse, although ESO is not quite at that stage since ESO at least tries to balance PvP.

PvE is what keeps ESO alive so even if the PvPers who are still playing decided to leave, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would actually be a good thing for the devs 'cuz they wouldn't have to waste resources on trying to fix PvP anymore and also it would make it a lot easier for them to balance skills and sets. On top of that, Cyrodiil and Imperial City wouldn't be lost 'cuz they would just turn them into PvE zones.

francesinhalover

AuraNebula wrote: »

https://youtu.be/oSDxjJ15YII

I guess we are all just a bunch of crybabies who only like to troll developers. Forget that we have invested years and thousands of hours into a game that we love. Some people may come across as demanding, but in reality they are frustrated and just want a game that works.

Edit: Performance has been bad for years and many PvPers have felt neglected because of it. For years we have heard "We are working on it" and now those words do not mean anything. We don't know what they are working on. We have no way of knowing when they estimate it will be fixed. We just get shamed for caring. If we don't like it we can play another game according to that lady.

Will take years, unless they are trying to kill pvp
And keep it only on battlegrounds.

Vevvev

Leogon wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ah yes, this kind of attitude went oh so well for the Star Trek Online PvP community. Surely they're still there, right? Oh right.... they all left after all the abuse, although ESO is not quite at that stage since ESO at least tries to balance PvP.

PvE is what keeps ESO alive so even if the PvPers who are still playing decided to leave, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would actually be a good thing for the devs 'cuz they wouldn't have to waste resources on trying to fix PvP anymore and also it would make it a lot easier for them to balance skills and sets. On top of that, Cyrodiil and Imperial City wouldn't be lost 'cuz they would just turn them into PvE zones.

PvPers are just as big of spenders as PvEers. Where in Oblivion do you think they get their gear from?

Dark_Lord_Kuro

I dont know how it work in the u.s but to me he did absolutly nothing wrong here... that woman that i neversaw did

In my country he cant be reprimended for it, at all ,for these reason
1. He didnt spoke the word
2. He isnt at work, so his boss woulnt have a say about it(basicly as soon as i leave work i must be treated as a costumer)

Sure, its insulting for the pvp and hould not have been said but again not his fault
What next? If is that woman murder a player, it would be is fault?

AuraNebula

Vevvev wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ah yes, this kind of attitude went oh so well for the Star Trek Online PvP community. Surely they're still there, right? Oh right.... they all left after all the abuse, although ESO is not quite at that stage since ESO at least tries to balance PvP.

PvE is what keeps ESO alive so even if the PvPers who are still playing decided to leave, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would actually be a good thing for the devs 'cuz they wouldn't have to waste resources on trying to fix PvP anymore and also it would make it a lot easier for them to balance skills and sets. On top of that, Cyrodiil and Imperial City wouldn't be lost 'cuz they would just turn them into PvE zones.

PvPers are just as big of spenders as PvEers. Where in Oblivion do you think they get their gear from?

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

Vevvev

AuraNebula wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ah yes, this kind of attitude went oh so well for the Star Trek Online PvP community. Surely they're still there, right? Oh right.... they all left after all the abuse, although ESO is not quite at that stage since ESO at least tries to balance PvP.

PvE is what keeps ESO alive so even if the PvPers who are still playing decided to leave, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would actually be a good thing for the devs 'cuz they wouldn't have to waste resources on trying to fix PvP anymore and also it would make it a lot easier for them to balance skills and sets. On top of that, Cyrodiil and Imperial City wouldn't be lost 'cuz they would just turn them into PvE zones.

PvPers are just as big of spenders as PvEers. Where in Oblivion do you think they get their gear from?

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I own 130 outfits last I counted. I might have a spending problem, but judging by the amount of cool stuff I see PvPers use I'm probably not alone lol.

Also 33 houses.... Just counted.

Kryptonite_Kent

AuraNebula wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Leogon wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Ah yes, this kind of attitude went oh so well for the Star Trek Online PvP community. Surely they're still there, right? Oh right.... they all left after all the abuse, although ESO is not quite at that stage since ESO at least tries to balance PvP.

PvE is what keeps ESO alive so even if the PvPers who are still playing decided to leave, it wouldn't really make a difference. It would actually be a good thing for the devs 'cuz they wouldn't have to waste resources on trying to fix PvP anymore and also it would make it a lot easier for them to balance skills and sets. On top of that, Cyrodiil and Imperial City wouldn't be lost 'cuz they would just turn them into PvE zones.

PvPers are just as big of spenders as PvEers. Where in Oblivion do you think they get their gear from?

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

Yep I've been a PvPer for 6 years, ESO+ almost all of that time / bought every expansion / bought every chapter / 100s of dollars of crown purchases for housing and mounts / bought collectors of some chapters / crown crates.... nah I dont matter cuz I'm just a dum dum pvper lol

Yasha

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont know how it work in the u.s but to me he did absolutly nothing wrong here... that woman that i neversaw did

In my country he cant be reprimended for it, at all ,for these reason
1. He didnt spoke the word
2. He isnt at work, so his boss woulnt have a say about it(basicly as soon as i leave work i must be treated as a costumer)

Sure, its insulting for the pvp and hould not have been said but again not his fault
What next? If is that woman murder a player, it would be is fault?

How it works in multinational companies that operate in various countries around the world is that staff have to go through seemingly endless hours of compliance training that basically boils down to: you cannot do anything on social media platforms, either personally or by association, that could in any way damage the reputation of the company or its customers, let alone be involved in an incident that directly insults the customers.

Sylvermynx

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont know how it work in the u.s but to me he did absolutly nothing wrong here... that woman that i neversaw did

In my country he cant be reprimended for it, at all ,for these reason
1. He didnt spoke the word
2. He isnt at work, so his boss woulnt have a say about it(basicly as soon as i leave work i must be treated as a costumer)

Sure, its insulting for the pvp and hould not have been said but again not his fault
What next? If is that woman murder a player, it would be is fault?

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

I would expect (from my many years of employment in various areas of both public and private companies) that ZOS at least needs to apologize for the stream input from a non-employee (if she is). If they don't offer an apology, then that would seem to me to indicate that they basically agree with what was said.

If that resonates with the pvp oriented people who play this game.... well.... I expect that those people will have a very - explosive - reaction.

Caveat: I don't pvp any more, and it would not affect me one way or the other if pvp was removed from ESO. I don't particularly want it gone, as it doesn't actually have any bearing on my enjoyment of the game: I am still fishing in Cyro, for instance. But.... if this sort of thing had been done to the housing community....

Yep. I'd be flat pissed. And no apology forthcoming would mean I'd seriously rethink the money I've put into this game, and I'd probably be requesting refunds on my annual ESO+ renewals. I might play some.... but I might not - it would depend on my bottom-line pissed off state.

[And yes, I am WELL aware that a few of the mods may decide that I have overstayed my "welcome" here with this post. If so.... it is what it is.]

b101uk

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

Vevvev

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

It's definitely a money generator. If ZOS dropped XBox tomorrow the game would still continue to run because it has money coming in from Playstation and PC, but it's going to hurt them one way or another.

EdmondDontes

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dont know how it work in the u.s but to me he did absolutly nothing wrong here... that woman that i neversaw did

In my country he cant be reprimended for it, at all ,for these reason
1. He didnt spoke the word
2. He isnt at work, so his boss woulnt have a say about it(basicly as soon as i leave work i must be treated as a costumer)

Sure, its insulting for the pvp and hould not have been said but again not his fault
What next? If is that woman murder a player, it would be is fault?

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

I would expect (from my many years of employment in various areas of both public and private companies) that ZOS at least needs to apologize for the stream input from a non-employee (if she is). If they don't offer an apology, then that would seem to me to indicate that they basically agree with what was said.

If that resonates with the pvp oriented people who play this game.... well.... I expect that those people will have a very - explosive - reaction.

Caveat: I don't pvp any more, and it would not affect me one way or the other if pvp was removed from ESO. I don't particularly want it gone, as it doesn't actually have any bearing on my enjoyment of the game: I am still fishing in Cyro, for instance. But.... if this sort of thing had been done to the housing community....

Yep. I'd be flat pissed. And no apology forthcoming would mean I'd seriously rethink the money I've put into this game, and I'd probably be requesting refunds on my annual ESO+ renewals. I might play some.... but I might not - it would depend on my bottom-line pissed off state.

[And yes, I am WELL aware that a few of the mods may decide that I have overstayed my "welcome" here with this post. If so.... it is what it is.]

Exactly. If some kind of public statement isn't made, or some kind of staffing changes made as a result of these repeated public comments, we have to assume the company as a whole feels exactly the same way.

This is why I keep coming back to it's time to judge solely by results. Four years of "we're working on it" has left many justifiably bitter.

Then these videos come out.

EdmondDontes

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

You'd lose that wager. Every PvP'er also runs most all the PvE content. To be good at PvP you have to be PvE+ is how it works. PvP players spend more on the game typically, not less.

TPishek

It makes me feel like she dropped this 👑

ArchangelIsraphel

b101uk wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

Right?! We have to buy all the chapters, DLCs, or have eso plus to get all the new gear too. We also buy crown crates, just go take a look at all the fancy mounts in cyrodiil. PvPers also buy houses and decorate, I'm not sure why people even say PvPers don't contribute.

I would wager there is a huge disparity between the monetary value the PvE community imparts over time and that of the PvP community over time, the latter being massively smaller than the former.

so don't go fooling yourself into thinking by any stretch that the PvP community is where the money is, because its not.

I feel like this whole "pve vs pvp" spending more money thing needs to be put aside in view of the bigger picture that is being spelled out here. (Especially since I'm sure they spend as much as a pve player on the same dlcs to keep their edge when new gear is out.) I'm a primarily pve player, and this response to the pvp community concerns me deeply. Why? Because I can only imagine how they think of us concerning other complaints we all share, like how egregious the cash shop has become over the course of the last year (more so than ever) or other valid concerns pve and pvp players alike have.

And if they are willing to behave this way towards the pvp player base, then who knows when they'll turn on the pve community? The housing community? The rp community? All have voiced repeated concerns. Perhaps the clock is ticking until they get mocked too.

Seeing such things makes one feel it could only be a matter of time. As players, we need to be aligned in this and back each other up. What effects one side can, and will, impact the other when it comes to the attitude of a company.

I'm very concerned for the pvp side of the game, and have been for some time. Those players have my support.

TechMaybeHic

The toxic part in all this is that it adds fire to a theme that PvPers are the problem to even dare complain about performance. They're villains in all this anyway, ruining fun by beating their enemies, by ganking or just being better and more experienced. As if that's not the point of PvP to begin with. The audacity to best a foe that does not follow a script.