The Fake Tanks and Healers have gotten so bad, I don't even want to play anymore.

svendf

Xebov wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

KaGaOri wrote: »

Decided to bite the bullet and add tank toon to my dd and healer. Trying to level undaunted to unlock inner fire and, saddly, dungeons are not exactly fun at this stage. Wonder if all those high cp players who run past my lvl 15 tank and solo everything are the same people who will be later complaining about lack of real tanks in the end game.

Yes. They are very often the same people

I would put it a bit differently.

There is a portion of the community that doesnt want to help train new players in tanking. They ignore the needs of tank players and also dont care about how they deal with out of group content. At the same time they expect top tier tanks to be available whenever they need them and they view them as some "free service" they are obligated to get. They will also complain if the "service" doesnt hold up to their expectations. This is not linked to a specific level of level of experience and can be seen across the board.

Agreed xD

svendf

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

KaGaOri wrote: »

Decided to bite the bullet and add tank toon to my dd and healer. Trying to level undaunted to unlock inner fire and, saddly, dungeons are not exactly fun at this stage. Wonder if all those high cp players who run past my lvl 15 tank and solo everything are the same people who will be later complaining about lack of real tanks in the end game.

Yes. They are very often the same people

With heavy armor speed penalty and no cp speed bonus my tank moves at speed of geriatric snail in comparison, so most fights are almost over when I get there and offten get there with not enough stamina to taunt before boss is dead. Of course quest can be finished only if npcs speak fast enough. And yes, I write in chat I have a quest beforehand, there are even 2 of us questing sometimes - rest of group doesn't care.

Right again

Maybe shouldn't complain, since getting insta-queue + getting hard-carried. Problem is I'm not learning how to tank and it will become problem at some point as more dungeons unlock for the toon. Easily could end up stuck in just the easy base game content for a long time / permanently this way. Bet that's where all those missing end game tanks are - runing easy content only or have given up tanking entirely.

Most tanks and healers today are buff monkey´s. It´s not fun and that´s why they run norm dungeons and norm DLC`s
And as you say. The speedrunners are a big problem if you wanna level a tank. ZOS should look at FF 14

Wish ZOS found some way to discourage high levels speedrunning easy content in spite of low level toons, instead of encouraging it with rewards.

Most high levels aren´t the problem as I see it. Im a high level myself and have absolutly no problem waiting. This is an attitude problem on the personal level

Agree. I myself always run queue in normal rnd as a fake tank and never had any problems with it. As well as any complaints from other players. What is the problem if normal content is completed easily?
Moreover, now I often become in vIR behind the mask as a fake healer, and no one has ever had a problem with this. On the contrary, people say that 3 dd is better.

You shouldn´t run as a fake tank that slot shoud be open for a tank, who wanna level, learn or have an easy day in the game. It can even be so simple, that they don´t like vet content.

What´s your resist on your dd ? Do you run nDLC`s ? That you don´t see any or few complaints doesn´t mean people do agree. It just showing people don´t wanna comment on it or don´t want to get into a conflict. Or even at low level want a carry and may I wish those people good luck in ESO at the same time. One day they may be in any vet content near you

Leave the tank slot open for tanks or make a tank.

Cheers

peacenote

jaws343 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I think we need two separate queues. One for players that want the traditional group made up of two DPS one tank one healer and players that don't care what they get as a group. The queue would try to fill the traditional groups first but if there were no tanks in queue it would take the top four players in the queue from the don't care queue and send them on their way.

Doing this would mean there would be no reason at all to queue as a fake tank or fake healer. Queue as DPS and pick the non-traditional route and your queue would be almost as fast as fake queuing. You also know you are getting three other people that don't think they need a tank or healer either.

The DPS that want a traditional group are still going to have a longer queue waiting for tanks and healers but they will know they are getting real tanks and healers.

You could actually do this with a single queue I would think. You just flag yourself as the don't care option and the primary role option. Say, DPS and Don't Care. And then in the normal queue, when you are up it either pulls you into a group with a tank and healer, or it pulls you into a group with 4 other people who don't care about roles. But it should only pull people who don't care into full DPS runs for example. So you would either have a group of 4 people who don't care, or a standard group where the people who do not care are appointed their primary role of DPS, tank or healer.

You know, we used to have this, kinda. You could queue with multiple roles.

I think this should be brought back. This way at least DPS who are capable throwing on a taunt and a shield are the ones more likely to be tanking!

AinSoph

Nemezijus wrote: »

All these issues with fake roles in ESO are just the results of flaws in the automated grouping. If the system can be abused easily - there will be people who will do it.

I think a much better option would be a public advertisement board, where a group leader can post what roles they are looking for to fill the group with a custom text like "vMGF 1T 2DD, CP1600+" or "daily random, any role, low level welcome".
And in case of fake role joining, the group leader can just kick them out.

It works really well in guild wars 2, and I see no real reason why it couldn't work here.
You could make your own custom groups and dont need to spam Craglorn with the lfg which gets lost in the zone chat very fast.

Heavily agree with this. Completely remove the random queue and replace it with a group finder where people can type what they want to achieve with the group kinda like the Guild Finder.

Succuby

Sarannah wrote: »

If ZOS does not want to enforce roles, there is another easy fix for fake roles. Add bonusses/enforcements to the roles:

Tank: All your skills become taunt skills and your damage is reduced by 80%. This would give players aoe taunts, but at the same time would open up the game for tanking as tanks could wear anything and could use any skill! (Having aoe taunts would not really matter, as this would only work on trashmobs anyways. Or ZOS could put in a tauntlimit of one taunt per skilluse, to keep singletaunting.)
DPS: Your damage is increased by 40%. (to offset healers/tanks no longer dealing damage)
Healer: All your damage skills no longer deal damage, but instead heal for that same amount. (Would allow healers to use any damage skill, for healing purposes.)

Tadaa, no more fake roles! And more freedom in how to play those roles, so more players might like playing them.

PS: During the undaunted event I armoried myself up 8 more tanks(16 total now), and I tanked about 4-5 normal dungeons per day. Had 0 runs with low DPS.

A lot of People who fake tank can solo dunguans. So all your suggestion will change they will go solo it, but waiting time for randoms increase.

I want do damage as a tank, with such changes it is more simple for me solo it as DD, because i am not sure what party i will get, and as tank i would be helpless.

James-Wayne

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Oznog666

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Fake DD's? Or maybe just new to ESO with no idea about how to do damage or about the correct equipment? And for this only ZOS is to blame, they are leaving newcomers completely alone. Without watching YT videos or checking sites like eso-hub you don't learn anything about the role and behaviour as DD / T / H. Anybody can remember the times when computer games came with a story book, a manual and a real tutorial?

Troodon80

Xebov wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

KaGaOri wrote: »

Decided to bite the bullet and add tank toon to my dd and healer. Trying to level undaunted to unlock inner fire and, saddly, dungeons are not exactly fun at this stage. Wonder if all those high cp players who run past my lvl 15 tank and solo everything are the same people who will be later complaining about lack of real tanks in the end game.

Yes. They are very often the same people

I would put it a bit differently.

There is a portion of the community that doesnt want to help train new players in tanking. They ignore the needs of tank players and also dont care about how they deal with out of group content. At the same time they expect top tier tanks to be available whenever they need them and they view them as some "free service" they are obligated to get. They will also complain if the "service" doesnt hold up to their expectations. This is not linked to a specific level of level of experience and can be seen across the board.

This is exctly the reason why I urge people to try every element of the game, all roles for perspective and all content to enhance their understanding of game mechanics, not just restrict themselves to one thing and be content. I take people who main healers or DDs and run through vDSA or even veteran Rockgrove or Sunspire (a couple times the victim volunteer was feeling brave) as a tank. The main things are the basics: resource management, positioning, knowing incoming heavy attacks, what to dodge and what can be blocked, and how much damage you are expecting to receive from certain attacks. DDs and healers can learn a lot from the tank role, and a tank can learn a lot from the DD and healer roles.

Once you know how much damage a certain thing does as a tank, you can take that knowledge to the DD or healer role. If something chunks out your health as a tank, you take that knowledge back to the healer role: you make sure that when your tank takes the heavy that heals follow it to keep them topped off. If you know a boss light attack is only 4-6k as a tank, then you can expect to get 8-11k as a light armour DD, you now know that if the tank dies you don't have to kite around the room -- and given that most boss abilities have a pretty large range anyway, kiting is most often not the best thing to do unless they are known to do one-shot light attacks -- you can instead stand, block, and get healed.

That's the knowledge and perspective brought from one role to the others, and vice versa. As a healer, you shouldn't feel like you're "babysitting" in terms of healing. You should be making sure people are topped off and not at 2k health for 5 seconds waiting for the next stiff breeze to kill them, tanks shouldn't be 100% reliant on the healer to hold their hand (every class has a shield or a heal, or both, for a reason). DDs should be able to tell where they can and can't stand, what hurts and what tickles, when to block or dodge, when you should move versus when you know you don't have to, what to do if you have something on you (hint: it's not running as far away as possible from the person who can taunt it), and healers should know the same.

Some people, however, don't want help. It's also important to acknowledge that. Unsolicited advice is usually unwelcome so far as PUGs go.

Raideen

Oznog666 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Fake DD's? Or maybe just new to ESO with no idea about how to do damage or about the correct equipment? And for this only ZOS is to blame, they are leaving newcomers completely alone. Without watching YT videos or checking sites like eso-hub you don't learn anything about the role and behaviour as DD / T / H. Anybody can remember the times when computer games came with a story book, a manual and a real tutorial?

Exactly this. There are no "Fake DPS", but rather folks who do not understand the complex and convoluted intricacies of doing damage and building a set in ESO. People should not have to tab out and watch a full lenght feature films worth of videos to do DPS.

MEBengalsFan2001

I keep goin into random q with a fake tanks who complain about my healing because they kept dying. Yes I am a healer in pvp and my heals do just as well in pve. I buff and debuff the group just like a pve healer. One thing I can’t solve for as a healer is a player not prepared to play the role they selected. I end up tanking the dungeons, healing and typically being a dps, because the tanks ware not a tank and the dps are subpar.

My pvp healer can beat all content almost solo, so, not having a tank doesn’t bother me, but if you go in as a fake tank die a lot, stop blaming the healer and play your role correctly, adds should not be killing a tank.

Reverb

This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution

Troodon80

Oznog666 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Fake DD's? Or maybe just new to ESO with no idea about how to do damage or about the correct equipment? And for this only ZOS is to blame, they are leaving newcomers completely alone. Without watching YT videos or checking sites like eso-hub you don't learn anything about the role and behaviour as DD / T / H. Anybody can remember the times when computer games came with a story book, a manual and a real tutorial?

I don't need to remember. I still have most of them. Like this one (only one that's within arms reach).

Or even before computer games were as widely played as they are now, when tabletop games were the norm (small part of a much larger collection).


However, I disagree that you don't, or can't, learn anything from the roles just by playing. You very easily can, both from reading the tooltips, from trying out abilities, and from learning core gameplay mechanics like the 1 second global cooldown, and that if your magicka/stamina/spell/weapon damage goes up the numbers on the tooltips also go up.

I've said this before, but on a basic level people don't need to be mathematical geniuses to know that "if X number is higher, I get more damage." Or in the distant past (since changed) where you'd have ice staff heavy attacking DDs and healers stealing aggro because they never bothered to read the tooltip saying "heavy attacking with ice staff taunts for 15 seconds" and then scream at the tank for "losing taunt." It's all there in the tooltip. There's a significant difference between optimising your own personal playstyle and working out meta/BiS from the ground up. One takes minimal effort and relies mostly on the ability to read, and the other takes some fairly basic mathematical skill all the way up to making spreadsheets, depending on how far you want to take it, to determine crit rating to crit damage ratios and damage scaling from both and from weapon/spell damage and max resources, all on a purely theoretical level.

Whether people choose to spend their time doing this very menial thing, that realistically doesn't actually take a long time to do (or as long as people tend to make it out to be), is a different story. I would even say there's a subtle promotion of this style of learning in the game given that you unlock skills as the skill lines rank up; not every skill is available to you from the start. You read the tooltips and figure out which ones work best for what circumstances.

Some people just want to jump in and have fun immediately without the reading or understanding, and this is perfectly fine. This has no impact on intelligence or IQ, contrary to what some people portray, and is simply a matter of interests. It's not right or wrong.

However, there is an expectation that doing veteran Fungal Grotto I won't take two hours to complete. (this is a real thing, by the way, and the reason why I don't tank random veteran content without at least one friend)

Reverb wrote: »

This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution

I endorse this. However, small catch here. You're a DD who is tired of getting fake tanks who don't taunt and who constantly die, and fake healers who don't have any heals slotted. You roll a tank and queue for a random veteran, you get March of Sacrifices or Fang Lair and your two DDs are doing a collective 20k DPS and you're now soured on tanking and want to go back to being a DD.

spartaxoxo

Reverb wrote: »

This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution

Dealing with fake dps is worse than dealing with fake tanks, in my experience. The real solution honesty is just to improve your DPS build so that it don't matter if you get a fake tank. If they are merely annoying because you have to deal with boss mechs that you didn't want to, versus an actual real threat to your success in the dungeon, they become much less aggravating.

Pixiepumpkin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution

Dealing with fake dps is worse than dealing with fake tanks, in my experience. The real solution honesty is just to improve your DPS build so that it don't matter if you get a fake tank. If they are merely annoying because you have to deal with boss mechs that you didn't want to, versus an actual real threat to your success in the dungeon, they become much less aggravating.

no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps

spartaxoxo

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution

Dealing with fake dps is worse than dealing with fake tanks, in my experience. The real solution honesty is just to improve your DPS build so that it don't matter if you get a fake tank. If they are merely annoying because you have to deal with boss mechs that you didn't want to, versus an actual real threat to your success in the dungeon, they become much less aggravating.

no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps

I disagree. I think someone who tries to make a dps build but doesn't do so well is a bad dps. And there's people who don't care how they make their character. I have seen dps with like 40k hp and 2k dps spamming light attacks with the occassional and random skill, or people who only light attack with a bow and nothing else, etc. Those aren't real dps imo. It's really hard to hit 100k. But it's not hard to know that you need to press buttons with damage skills on them to do more damage. Even my 88 year old grandma who doesn't know how to play video games will button mash if you put a controller in her hand. That's not a hard concept.

Just a little effort can easily put you in 12-20k range. If your dps is even less than that, it's because you aren't building to be a dps. Maybe you made yourself really tanky. Or maybe you didn't put any damage skills in your bar and all you're doing is light attacking. Regardless, that means you're a fake DPS IMO.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Oznog666 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Fake DD's? Or maybe just new to ESO with no idea about how to do damage or about the correct equipment? And for this only ZOS is to blame, they are leaving newcomers completely alone. Without watching YT videos or checking sites like eso-hub you don't learn anything about the role and behaviour as DD / T / H. Anybody can remember the times when computer games came with a story book, a manual and a real tutorial?

i hate it
if someone says fake dps everyone protects them
if someone says fake tank everyone is angry af

and both is equally bad - and some fake tanks wouldnt even exist with less fake dds
e.g. i never use my tank in a dungoen cause randoms do 0 dmg and i dont wanna spent 1h for fungel grotto 1

and btw if u say a bad dd is still a dd than couldnt i say a tank without a spot is not a fake its just a bad tank?

Troodon80

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps

"Good DPS" is an entirely subjective thing, as is the notion of a fake role because of it being based on expectations, which is what makes this topic such a hard one to define and discuss. If a DD queues as a tank to avoid queue times, it doesn't matter that they've slotted Inner Fire to taunt, there's intent to skip the queue. But without being a mind-reader, how do you measure intent? By how much damage the "tank" can do? Their health pool? Whether there is a taunt or not? Being able to hold aggro? In some cases, you can hold aggro without a taunt, what then? Even if they have a taunt and don't use it, does that make them fake or just "sub-par"?

Objectively, if we're going to brand one role as being "fake" for not living up to the "basic expectations of their role," which is what this boils down to at the end of the day, then it is absolutely fair to brand the DPS role as fake for not doing DPS at some basic expected level. If you're getting out-DPSed by a full-spec PvE tank doing 4k DPS, does that also make the tank a fake because they "shouldn't" be doing more than a DD or does it make the DD fake for not living up to expectation? If one aligns with the logic that there are only sub-par DDs, then the same logic applies to tanks and healers in that there are only sub-par tanks and healers unable to fullfil that basic expectation.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

I can still achieve 45k+ on the 3 mil dummy with a sword and shield (as a dd), but that's also because I've had a lot of practice in this game. The problem lies in lack of direction for newer players or unwillingness to learn, imo. The world of youtube builds and guidance is quite different than what you get in eso's tutorials. Many players don't even know what it means to parse on a dummy at all.

spartaxoxo

Troodon80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps

"Good DPS" is an entirely subjective thing, as is the notion of a fake role because of it being based on expectations, which is what makes this topic such a hard one to define and discuss. If a DD queues as a tank to avoid queue times, it doesn't matter that they've slotted Inner Fire to taunt, there's intent to skip the queue. But without being a mind-reader, how do you measure intent? By how much damage the "tank" can do? Their health pool? Whether there is a taunt or not? Being able to hold aggro? In some cases, you can hold aggro without a taunt, what then? Even if they have a taunt and don't use it, does that make them fake or just "sub-par"?

Objectively, if we're going to brand one role as being "fake" for not living up to the "basic expectations of their role," which is what this boils down to at the end of the day, then it is absolutely fair to brand the DPS role as fake for not doing DPS at some basic expected level. If you're getting out-DPSed by a full-spec PvE tank doing 4k DPS, does that also make the tank a fake because they "shouldn't" be doing more than a DD or does it make the DD fake for not living up to expectation? If one aligns with the logic that there are only sub-par DDs, then the same logic applies to tanks and healers in that there are only sub-par tanks and healers unable to fullfil that basic expectation.

I think that a lot of people want to distinguish because they view the dps who don't even bother to slot a taunt but queue as intentionally dishonest, while they view the DPS as merely being ignorant that their build doesn't meet very basic expectations.

And to some degree, I do think this is true. I wouldn't call someone a fake dps if they had 12-20k, even though that's pretty low compared to the max or even middle of the road dps. Most of the playerbase is hitting that. But I also feel very strongly between someone trying to build like a dps and not succeeding and people intentionally "playing how I want to play," and not caring about how their build impacts others. To me, refusing to slot and use damage skills regularly isn't much different than refusing to slot a taunt or a heal. And it doesn't require weaving or anything like that to hit those kinds of numbers, just an effort to do damage.

Athan1

In other games you need to wear appropriate equipment to queue as a role. Here because of the "do whatever you want" mentality there is absolute chaos. There should be limits to freedom. Suggested requirements:

Tank: taunt slotted
Healer: resto staff equipped

Also, the undaunted can give a basic tutorial to healing and tanking, even dps tbh. This game is garbage at teaching you any of its mechanics.

Juomuuri

One of the previous times it was me who brought up this problem, and people would fight for pages upon pages (I stopped looking after a few replies).

My solution was to stop PUGging entirely. Couldn't be happier.

BUT - there seriously is something wrong with how ESO handles the role queueing.

Also - a fake DD is a tank/healer who has queued as a DD, nothing else.

Troodon80

spartaxoxo wrote: »

And to some degree, I do think this is true. I wouldn't call someone a fake dps if they had 12-20k, even though that's pretty low compared to the max or even middle of the road dps. Most of the playerbase is hitting that. But I also feel very strongly between someone trying to build like a dps and not succeeding and people intentionally "playing how I want to play," and not caring about how their build impacts others. To me, refusing to slot and use damage skills regularly isn't much different than refusing to slot a taunt or a heal. And it doesn't require weaving or anything like that to hit those kinds of numbers, just an effort to do damage.

Agreed.

PullaStormy wrote: »

Also - a fake DD is a tank/healer who has queued as a DD, nothing else.

Even if a tank or healer were to queue as a DD, a tank (more specfically) or healer will still do mediocre damage, so technically they still wouldn't be a fake DD as long as they're not standing there doing absolutely nothing. At the end of it, it has to come down to expectations. You expect the tank to hold aggro (a DD could do that), you expect the healer to heal, and you expected the DD to do DPS. Which makes this is a completely subjective topic with no end because there are no clearly defined borders, only expectations.

As a tank main, my expectation of DDs is that I won't be doing 50% of the group DPS with my amazing 4k DPS. If I'm doing more than both DDs and the healer combined with 4k, there's something seriously wrong and the DDs should be called what they are. When I get into groups like that, I very often do whip out VO+Briarheart just to get more DPS so I can carry the otherwise abysmal DPS who, in all honesty, shouldn't be doing the content with the expectation of getting carried.

Here is a Fungal Grotto I random veteran where I decided to queue back around 250-300 CP some years ago as a templar tank.



Yes, you read that correctly. That's a total group DPS of 6k. A whole whopping 6k and I did almost 40% of it with 2k. Two agonising hours. In the easiest dungeon in the game. It's something that happened very frequently, and something that still happens. Two entire hours I spent in there. Because the DDs couldn't do DPS.

It's the reason I don't PUG as a tank anymore without at least one other person I know on a DD.

I don't mind going slowly. I've never minded it. We can take our time outside of combat if you want to explore. What this was... this is just DDs who cannot perform the basic expectation of their role. Fake DDs.

Sheezabeast

By fake DPS do you mean people who are wearing PVP builds, running all Impen?

Because that is an entirely different issue.

Troodon80

Sheezabeast wrote: »

By fake DPS do you mean people who are wearing PVP builds, running all Impen?

Because that is an entirely different issue.

My second ever Flawless Conqueror back in the day was on a full Impen PvP build using Armour Master and Spinner's (at the time, all purple, even the weapons). Gear doesn't mean you'll be terrible at DPS.

francesinhalover

Today i started a daily normal dungeon with my healer friend. After a quick search we got a team.
We were surprised by the speed.
The dungeon was falkreath hold.
We start the combat and out of nowhere me and her/healer get insta killed by minotaurs, we thought it was weird and after a bit the tank and dd get killed.
It is then i understand the situation.
So i ask the two handed fake tank dd to at least put a taunt.
And he does the typical online laugh spam internet empty heads do and says it's normal.
I reply saying it's normal vet dlc and theres insta kills.

The fake tank dd spent the whole dungeon insulting me.

Zen please punish this players.

KhajiitLivesMatter

francesinhalover wrote: »

Today i started a daily normal dungeon with my healer friend. After a quick search we got a team.
We were surprised by the speed.
The dungeon was falkreath hold.
We start the combat and out of nowhere me and her/healer get insta killed by minotaurs, we thought it was weird and after a bit the tank and dd get killed.
It is then i understand the situation.
So i ask the two handed fake tank dd to at least put a taunt.
And he does the typical online laugh spam internet empty heads do and says it's normal.
I reply saying it's normal vet dlc and theres insta kills.

The fake tank dd spent the whole dungeon insulting me.

Zen please punish this players.

what the hell is a normal vet dlc

was it normal or vet it cant be both?
if its was normal than 4dd in falkreath is ez if atleast 1-2 of the players are good

if it was vet than the fake tank doenst know anything cause vet without tank and randoms is NEVER a good idea

Juomuuri

Doing little DPS doesn't make one a fake DD - you can be a bad tank, a bad healer, or a bad DD, but not a fake one if you are doing what your role requires, even if it's not very effective. There are lots of beginners, casuals etc. who have to do PUGging for various reasons. I personally don't care if the dungeon run is slow due to low DPS - if I chose to PUG, I get what I get and live with it (tho fake healers get the boot when I'm tanking).

What is broken here are not the players doing their actual roles, but the way ZoS has implemented the role queueing.

Someone brought up having separate queues for base game and DLC dungeons, and I couldn't agree more. Please, we need this!

Fun fact: I was doing a random normal PUG for the fun of it, we got White-Gold Tower. I had never done the dungeon before, was DDing. There was a fake tank, and because I had the highest DPS, I was automatically targeted by bosses, so I tanked the whole dungeon as a hecking magblade... The only time I don't queue as a tank, I'm forced to tank as a DD, without taunts.

Auztinito

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps

"Good DPS" is an entirely subjective thing, as is the notion of a fake role because of it being based on expectations, which is what makes this topic such a hard one to define and discuss. If a DD queues as a tank to avoid queue times, it doesn't matter that they've slotted Inner Fire to taunt, there's intent to skip the queue. But without being a mind-reader, how do you measure intent? By how much damage the "tank" can do? Their health pool? Whether there is a taunt or not? Being able to hold aggro? In some cases, you can hold aggro without a taunt, what then? Even if they have a taunt and don't use it, does that make them fake or just "sub-par"?

Objectively, if we're going to brand one role as being "fake" for not living up to the "basic expectations of their role," which is what this boils down to at the end of the day, then it is absolutely fair to brand the DPS role as fake for not doing DPS at some basic expected level. If you're getting out-DPSed by a full-spec PvE tank doing 4k DPS, does that also make the tank a fake because they "shouldn't" be doing more than a DD or does it make the DD fake for not living up to expectation? If one aligns with the logic that there are only sub-par DDs, then the same logic applies to tanks and healers in that there are only sub-par tanks and healers unable to fullfil that basic expectation.

I think that a lot of people want to distinguish because they view the dps who don't even bother to slot a taunt but queue as intentionally dishonest, while they view the DPS as merely being ignorant that their build doesn't meet very basic expectations.

And to some degree, I do think this is true. I wouldn't call someone a fake dps if they had 12-20k, even though that's pretty low compared to the max or even middle of the road dps. Most of the playerbase is hitting that. But I also feel very strongly between someone trying to build like a dps and not succeeding and people intentionally "playing how I want to play," and not caring about how their build impacts others. To me, refusing to slot and use damage skills regularly isn't much different than refusing to slot a taunt or a heal. And it doesn't require weaving or anything like that to hit those kinds of numbers, just an effort to do damage.

Correction: 80+% of the player base only hit 5-10k.

Taraezor

So much hate for bad players, thinly disguised as calling people out for being "fake".

This is really sad. I expect threads like this in other games.

Yes... I have seen players who are clearly not tanks - NO taunt - trying to play as tanks. They are fake and a minority at least for normal randoms, which is what I do and most players who queue do.

But calling players out as fake DD for having wrong gear setups, bad skill selection, low DPS etc etc is just so mean.

The only thing fake about that is any semblance of community spirit or caring by the posters of that elitist rubbish.

Xebov

Oznog666 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

As a dedicated tank for awhile now it's more annoying getting fake DPS... Yes I'm talking about you players with SnB as DPS, it isn't a thing....

But hey play how you want right, that's the ESO way.

Fake DD's? Or maybe just new to ESO with no idea about how to do damage or about the correct equipment? And for this only ZOS is to blame, they are leaving newcomers completely alone. Without watching YT videos or checking sites like eso-hub you don't learn anything about the role and behaviour as DD / T / H. Anybody can remember the times when computer games came with a story book, a manual and a real tutorial?

Going by that logic there would be no fake tanks and healers either. Yet everyone agrees that there are some inexperienced tanks and healers and also a bunch of players that simply dont care. The same is true for DDs. There are some that are just inexperienced and there are others who simply dont care and expect others to do the job for them.
Its not the job of a game to teach you everything. It has to set you on track and at some point you have to advance by yourself. You dont complain that a strategy game is not telling you all the possible strategies or that a sandbox game is not showing you everything possible. At some point you have to pick up the interest to venture deeper on your own. With YT and google and alot of content creators its easier than ever. I dont see why ppl should be defended for being lazy just because they are DDs. Every Tank or Healer in that position gets scolded.