Overland Content Feedback Thread

Sylvermynx

tonyblack wrote: »

It would be slightly more realistic if the debuff increased your damage taken, reduced damage done and healing done and maybe remove hp hegen. These stats would make everything harder, hp cap does nothing for that.
But then the problem arise what values would be optimal and how you adjust them?
Another problem how would that work in MMO where you constantly surrounded by players, who can potentially troll and grief you or just unintentionally help without realization that you don’t want it?
How you incentivize to use it? Make no mistake if ZOS add something like that in game it should have benefits for them and would most likely be a mystic item, which they would try to sell to as much players as possible.
And that in turn creates a potential problems of toxicity if loot is shared or reduced on stolen kills, abuse if isn’t shared or underuse if it’s designed badly for both challenge and incentive.
In most pessimistic outcome, the item ends up useless, cluttering our inventory with no real value to those who asked for harder challenges and wasted devs resources. In realistic outcome, I’d expect it be used for farming of easy public dungeons and nothing more.

Okay, I now get why the separate overland instance is preferred. Your explanation makes sense as so much else didn't. The trolling/griefing, I have to say, is sad but all too likely. I did ask WAY back in this thread (or maybe a different thread - who knows now?) what would happen when someone with no debuff attacks a mob one of you vet debuffed folks is engaging and I think that didn't get a reply.

Eh.... I just want to play this game the way I love, without having things changed to the point I won't be able to play/enjoy. But I don't know that asking the devs to develop a whole vet overland will be viable financially or time wise.... because none of us have access to data.

Toxic_Hemlock

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

And again why is it ok to take progress from veteran players while providing nothing in return but it’s scandalous in reverse? Nobody would be excited about applying nerf to themselves for no reason. Yes, it’s convenient solution to dismiss such topics but does it accomplish anything or address the issue?
Not to mention CP does not provide significant dps or survivability increase on its own. At the end of the day it wouldn’t even be noticeable in current overland difficulty.

How does a debuff take progress from veteran players? It doesn't take anything away. It just temporarily removes it to make the fights more difficult, which is what is being asked for.

Depends on what kind of debuff. CP one take away champion points for no reason.

What about a debuff that removes half your health and half your damage?

It would be slightly more realistic if the debuff increased your damage taken, reduced damage done and healing done and maybe remove hp hegen. These stats would make everything harder, hp cap does nothing for that.
But then the problem arise what values would be optimal and how you adjust them?
Another problem how would that work in MMO where you constantly surrounded by players, who can potentially troll and grief you or just unintentionally help without realization that you don’t want it?
How you incentivize to use it? Make no mistake if ZOS add something like that in game it should have benefits for them and would most likely be a mystic item, which they would try to sell to as much players as possible.
And that in turn creates a potential problems of toxicity if loot is shared or reduced on stolen kills, abuse if isn’t shared or underuse if it’s designed badly for both challenge and incentive.
In most pessimistic outcome, the item ends up useless, cluttering our inventory with no real value to those who asked for harder challenges and wasted devs resources. In realistic outcome, I’d expect it be used for farming of easy public dungeons and nothing more.

Now you are starting to see the problem. We are all individuals and as such we all have different needs.

Make it optionally harder for a few and you get some people griefing. Side effect the more accomplished players leave the game due to being trolled continually.

Make it instanced and it requires lots of dev time to implement making any future content be put on hold. Side effect some of the more casual leave until something enticing is released.

Adding loot tables to the whole thing just makes for a HUGE mess. Implementing this is not as simple as many think it will be and my band-aid CP idea was just that, but at least it was easier to implement IMO.

I'm all for instanced, if they can do it without taking away from content releases.

BUT, HOW tough should instanced be? Adding a difficulty slider is another option, but than again HOW much dev time would be needed?

As you can see it is not an easy fix.

SilverBride

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

What about a debuff that removes half your health and half your damage?

It would be slightly more realistic if the debuff increased your damage taken, reduced damage done and healing done and maybe remove hp hegen. These stats would make everything harder, hp cap does nothing for that.
But then the problem arise what values would be optimal and how you adjust them?

That is a problem because no one agrees on how much difficulty is the right amount. But the same problem would exist in a veteran overland, too. Difficulty is subjective so there is no way to quantify it.

tonyblack wrote: »

Another problem how would that work in MMO where you constantly surrounded by players, who can potentially troll and grief you or just unintentionally help without realization that you don’t want it?

How is this any different than how things are now? Players run into other players in an MMO, and sometimes these players do things that annoy others. It wouldn't be any better or any worse with a debuff, or in a veteran overland.

tonyblack wrote: »

How you incentivize to use it? Make no mistake if ZOS add something like that in game it should have benefits for them and would most likely be a mystic item, which they would try to sell to as much players as possible.
And that in turn creates a potential problems of toxicity if loot is shared or reduced on stolen kills, abuse if isn’t shared or underuse if it’s designed badly for both challenge and incentive.
In most pessimistic outcome, the item ends up useless, cluttering our inventory with no real value to those who asked for harder challenges and wasted devs resources. In realistic outcome, I’d expect it be used for farming of easy public dungeons and nothing more.

I don't know how they would implement it, but there are a few ways that could work. It could be a memento a player would be rewarded with for doing a short quest chain. Or a debuff food that could be purchased or even crafted, like the Mara potions for Vampires... one to apply the debuff, another to reverse it. Or it could even be a toggle.

Toxic_Hemlock

tonyblack wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

All many of us here are asking for in an optional switch for those that want challenge whilst leaving the overland alone for those that want it. IMO this should not be such a controversial subject as it seems to have become.

I don't want other things that would benefit the playerbase as a whole to be put on hold while they spend time and resources for something that very few would use.

We have suggested a debuff for general overland and an optional veteran story boss. Those would take much less resources to implement and would not affect anyone but the player using them, but these ideas keep getting shot down.

I have asked why some want a separate veteran overland instance or nothing but haven't received an explanation.

Which is why I suggested the no CP "SWITCH" for overland as the code is already there due to no cp cyrodiil, it would be an easier route. After the devs see if it is used on a regular basis then they could release some resources to make HM banners or some other solution.

This way it would not require much over a code copy/paste/edit to make it possible in overland all while not using a ton of resources that could take away future content from the players.

And again why is it ok to take progress from veteran players while providing nothing in return but it’s scandalous in reverse? Nobody would be excited about applying nerf to themselves for no reason. Yes, it’s convenient solution to dismiss such topics but does it accomplish anything or address the issue?
Not to mention CP does not provide significant dps or survivability increase on its own. At the end of the day it wouldn’t even be noticeable in current overland difficulty.

Many here didn't want more of a challenge is the answer here. Edit: also it would be optional, so we would not be taking ANYTHING away from you. If you had a game mode, lets call it a trial for instance, and I wanted it to be easier. I would have to tell you why I deserve to have the difficulty decreased all while trying to keep the dev time needed to minimal. This might lead to an optional switch that made made the trail easier to me without taking anything away from you. We won't discuss loot here as that is not what this is about, RIGHT?

Meanwhile you want a game mode, overland, made to be more of a challenge for you. This is fine in itself, but you cannot expect those that are happy to give up what makes them happy is my point.

It seems to be lost on some here though, but MANY HERE LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS so why should we have to change?

Edit 2: Per your quote "Not to mention CP does not provide significant dps or survivability increase on its own. At the end of the day it wouldn’t even be noticeable in current overland difficulty."

By your own logic then you would use the switch and feel no difference then? As for me and others that insignificant increase does make some difference. You are in fact proving my point for me.

By my own logic it would provide nothing of value at all beside small damage decrease and losing green tree passives. So what are my reasons to use it?
I know that some people in this threat is strictly opposed to anything meaningful and that is why I have hard time taking their suggestions seriously because they are written with no regards to players who want harder challenges.

First and foremost I did not include the green tree in this as EVERYONE should benefit from that tree.



Edit: Your reasons for using it are that small damage decrease you stated (I.E. more challenge)

As for me needing it...

The Fitness tree allows me to slot an ability that gives me breathing room for when I get held (slippery) that has more than once saved my butt. Along with reduced stamina cost for dodging and improved speed can turn the tide too.

The warfare tree allows me to hit a bit harder and in doing so lets me hit hard enough to possibly damage delve bosses quick enough that I don't get hit too much.

As you can see what you consider to be a more or less useless, I consider to be a game changer.

As for you wanting harder challenge, the voluntary CP nerf is all I can see as viable as anything else would require more dev time and as such would take content away from the general populous.

Different strokes... I cannot tell you what is fun or viable for you, all I ask is please don't do the same to me.

edit: clarity

And you stated you don't want devs time wasted and system copied from current Cyrodiil, where green tree did not apply. So following your logic, your solution does require rework of what is currently possible and thus devs time. My question stands though: with value of CP power so low how it supposed to address discussed issue and affect those who want it solved in any way? Combat wise, I barely notice any difference with or without CP as it stands.

Well the code is already there, they just need to remove the portion the applies to the green tree, thus LESS dev time. NOT the same as designing instanced areas for every delve/quest/static boss in overland AT ALL. All the other questions have been answered by me already. Spoiler: YOU notice no difference in your CP, but many of us DO.. so use the switch or don't it doesn't bother me in the least, but using it might give the feedback to the devs to get you that shiny new instanced content you wanted.

Edit: clarity

Franchise408

summ0004 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

I dont like the idea of a debuff at all as it removes the concept of RPG elements of character progression, but I like the idea of scaleable mobs that go beyond CP 160, or the option just to have difficulty sliders on instanced quests.

Debuffs are like really common in rpgs though. Like even within the Elder Scrolls franchise, but also other rpgs. Because while they do take power away, they greatly enhance the roleplaying aspect of the game by increasing immersion. They make you reconsider old encounters, make everything feel more like a threat, etc. They are also some of the most popular and consistent mods out there for rpgs across many different games. Shoot survival mode in Skyrim's anniversary edition started out as mod that included a series of debuffs placed on the player that they have to counteract with items such as if they get too hungry, they starve to death. I believe there is more to it than that but that part was certainly a major selling point.

So I don't think it's at all a fair criticism that debuffs go against RPG elements whatsoever.

I think it's more accurate to say it goes against your personal power fantasy because it requires you to turn off power you had before and that to you is too immersion breaking to make up for all the other benefits it brings. Because buffing the mob to take say 10k damage from instead of 25 is no different than nerfing you so that you only do 10k damage to the boss from a pure functionality standpoint. Which also means from an engaging fight standpoint, it is literally the exact same thing.

The difference is whether or not it disrupts your personal power fantasy, the drops, and that one doesn't require a separate instance and the other does. Not in it's RPG bonafides. Again, it is pretty common in RPGs and even something players will add in themselves through modding.

summ0004 wrote: »

There is a big difference between easy and trivial, and currently ESO overland and quest bosses fall under the trivial as mobs actually require zero effort to kill currently.

This is subjective. There are multiple players in this thread that do not find current overland trivial. They die and everything and have to put in effort to kill things. I am not one of them but they are in this thread and in this game.

[Snip]

Games are supposed to have progressive challenges - obstacles and challenges that get harder as you go further in the game. As it stands, ESO does not have that. It is stagnant. At low levels, you are scaled up to be at the same level to take out any threat without challenge, and then at end-game levels, you surpass that so you just steam roll everything by looking at it. The game is designed in such a way to offer 0 pushback. It holds your hand through quests, taking you exactly where you need to go and not letting you mess up. The fights aren't fights, it's mobs standing there letting you hit them, because they don't want to offend you by fighting back and dealing damage to you.

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

I am far from some elite gamer. ESO is the *only* MMO where I have reached end-game levels. Even within this game, my highest DPS parses have topped out at about 25K. My tanks are entirely off-meta. The trial groups I lead, I require no sets, and I require no parses to be submitted. There is nothing that's elitist power-gamer about me. And sometimes, I'd like to be able to play this game and not have to be forced into group content to feel any sense of engagement. I would love to be able to just do some solo questing and

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

summ0004 wrote: »

There is a big difference between easy and trivial, and currently ESO overland and quest bosses fall under the trivial as mobs actually require zero effort to kill currently.

Its almost at the level where the combat feels pointless and it may aswell go down the same route as those janky korean FTP MMOs where is auto combats for you, just leaving you to play it as a walking simulator.

I dont like the idea of a debuff at all as it removes the concept of RPG elements of character progression, but I like the idea of scaleable mobs that go beyond CP 160, or the option just to have difficulty sliders on instanced quests.

Trivial to you. Easy to you. But I still see players dying to delve bosses. We still have players calling out for help for story bosses in zone.

At a certain point with any game, you just have to accept that your understanding of the games mechanics has surpassed that game's ability to offer a challenge to you. That is perfectly ok.

The problem is, they are never going to be able to balance a vet instance of overland. Because it will always either be too easy to too hard for some and will never be able to strike a balance there. And at some point, even that challenge becomes trivial or easy again for those same players and they request more.

It's just not feasible or realistic.

It is not true. The game has a high powercreep, but not infinite. Nobody complains that dungeons or trials are too simple and boring. Their difficulty is all right. I see no reason why you can't find the perfect balance for the overland.
Yes, I also often see beginners who find it difficult. But it is difficult for them while they are newbies. At the end of the day, the game cannot be focused only on beginners.

I find it challenging due to my health and I'm not a newbie anymore, does that mean that the game should not allow me to have fun? BTW I don't do any dungeon over the first four normals in a party as dying over and over is not what I call fun, so maybe some don't complain because they avoid them. I have never done a trial or arena, but I'm not asking for them to be easier (non-optional) to suit me as I'm not interested in that content.

All many of us here are asking for in an optional switch for those that want challenge whilst leaving the overland alone for those that want it. IMO this should not be such a controversial subject as it seems to have become.

Edit: clarity

It shouldn't be controversial, but unfortunately it is because many don't want those of us who want a higher challenge to be able to have it. So many in this very thread are against even an optional challenge.

[Edit to remove reference of removed content]

Sylvermynx

I'm not against optional harder overland. I don't like the combat in this game, because it's hard for me. But this is a really great game, and there just aren't other games out there that appeal to me. It's not very likely that I'll be able to play TES VI (should it ever actually release) so right now, I'm still playing Oblivion, Skyrim (tens of thousands of hours in the two of them) and ESO.

Optional is fine. I just don't want forced harder overland, as that will mean I can no longer play this game.

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

This has been the norm in MMOs for decades now. The open world is for questing and the challenges are group oriented and in instanced dungeons, trials and arenas. This formula is widely used by many games because it works.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

It shouldn't be controversial, but unfortunately it is because many don't want those of us who want a higher challenge to be able to have it. So many in this very thread are against even an optional challenge.

This is a strawman. There have been almost zero people against an optional challenge. Those who approve an optional challenge is near 100%.

Where the disagreement lies in how that challenge should be implemented, not in whether or not to provide one.

Hallothiel

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

It’s an MMO. Not a single player game.
Therefore not really ‘an unacceptable design’, but a fundamental part of what this type of game is!!!

Toxic_Hemlock

Franchise408 wrote: »

...snip
Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design. snip...

Sorry to be harping on this point, but unless I am mistaken there are arenas in the game; I even hear the vet versions are a bit hard(er) to do.

These arenas were designed with the single player in mind that wants a challenge and a couple are not group based in the least; you cannot even bring in a companion according to the wiki. I myself have never, or will ever, complete an arena, but I am not asking for them to be given the story mode treatment. There needs to be challenging content for the single player added to the game too, this I understand.

Just correcting your statement that there is no single player challenging content in the game and in fact there are 2 different solo arenas both found in the same areas where the overland is. In fact it does seem to me the devs have put some time into designing solo content for the challenge crowd too.

If you don't like arenas or are just bored of doing them that is a different matter entirely and does not pertain to this issue at all. As there IS solo only challenging content in ESO, your hyperbole here is wrong.

Edit: added sentence

SimonThesis

If they made cyrodiil work not laggy, with skill delay, constant crashes and position desyncs they would take away the demand for a vet overland. Endgame players need more things to do that work.

I also believe they need way better pvp tutorials!!! One of the reasons a lot of people struggle in pvp is because the meta for pvp vs pve is drastically different. If you wear a vet trial setup with golden perfected weapons to cyrodiil you will get one shot repeatedly. Zos needs to teach more people coming to cyrodiil they need to build tankier so they dont get one shot. 30K HP and 3k crit resist are pretty standard minimums for pvp guilds.

Franchise408

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

It’s an MMO. Not a single player game.
Therefore not really ‘an unacceptable design’, but a fundamental part of what this type of game is!!!

So then why shouldn't the casuals who don't want to face a challenge have to be subjected to the same design?

Why do they get to have their "relaxing single player" questing time, while the rest of us have to be forced into group content because "it's an MMO, not a single player game"?

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

It’s an MMO. Not a single player game.
Therefore not really ‘an unacceptable design’, but a fundamental part of what this type of game is!!!

So then why shouldn't the casuals who don't want to face a challenge have to be subjected to the same design?

Why do they get to have their "relaxing single player" questing time, while the rest of us have to be forced into group content because "it's an MMO, not a single player game"?

They are subjected to the same design. Most of them do want group sets and the like, and they don't have the option to get them anyway else except do more challenging group content. A lot of them also like to have their maps completed and they have to do world bosses and the like to get it.

Every player has to interact with the game the way it is designed.

Also your question amounts "If I can't have all the content cater to me, then they shouldn't be allowed to have any content catered to them."

Which is a pretty bad take. Different parts of the game cater to different audiences.

The developers could definitely do more to give people who want vet overland a more enjoyable experience but trying to force people out of the game to get it ain't it. Forcing vet overland also forces out the majority of the players. It's selfish and bad for the healh of the game.

Whiskey_JG

We have to recognize that although the content is still easy in comparison to veteran dungeons/trials there has been a step up.

I noticed that bosses in the main quest of the deadlands have mechanics which make it more interesting. So thats a positive thing.

Balancing difficulty between casual players and endgame players is rather impossible to do. The best examples where I think content was well balanced is craglorn overland dungeons (the various skyreach ones), and overland dragons in Elsweyr (u cant solo those!)

But ZoS can make an experiment. Introduce a small zone with increased difficulty at least to a level where you need to group and go from there.

This is an mmo and i personally think that difficult content is in line with the concept of an mmo, since it will "force" you to find companions to play with.

Toxic_Hemlock

Franchise408 wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

It’s an MMO. Not a single player game.
Therefore not really ‘an unacceptable design’, but a fundamental part of what this type of game is!!!

So then why shouldn't the casuals who don't want to face a challenge have to be subjected to the same design?

Why do they get to have their "relaxing single player" questing time, while the rest of us have to be forced into group content because "it's an MMO, not a single player game"?

You're right, personally I would love them to include story mode single player dungeon content to the game too, I have not done any of the DLC dungeons, nor any of the higher level ones (first 4 dungeons only). I don't want to get kicked as my "builds" are subpar and I am not a very good player due to health restrains so grouping up is not fair to party members. I know many think normal dungeons are far to easy now, but I am not one of them. I don't even care if I got loot or transmute stones but having a nice casual way to finally get those skill points would be awesome.

So you are right, we should not let all those group content areas be used solely for groups either.

Franchise408

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of us who want challenge, we have to go into completely different realms of the game to get it. All of it group based. World bosses, dungeons, trials, PVP - all of the challenge in this game is group or PVP based. And simply put, that's an unacceptable design.

It’s an MMO. Not a single player game.
Therefore not really ‘an unacceptable design’, but a fundamental part of what this type of game is!!!

So then why shouldn't the casuals who don't want to face a challenge have to be subjected to the same design?

Why do they get to have their "relaxing single player" questing time, while the rest of us have to be forced into group content because "it's an MMO, not a single player game"?

They are subjected to the same design. Most of them do want group sets and the like, and they don't have the option to get them anyway else except do more challenging group content. A lot of them also like to have their maps completed and they have to do world bosses and the like to get it.

Every player has to interact with the game the way it is designed.

Also your question amounts "If I can't have all the content cater to me, then they shouldn't be allowed to have any content catered to them."

Which is a pretty bad take. Different parts of the game cater to different audiences.

The developers could definitely do more to give people who want vet overland a more enjoyable experience but trying to force people out of the game to get it ain't it. Forcing vet overland also forces out the majority of the players. It's selfish and bad for the healh of the game.

That's not what my take amounts to at all, and I find that to be quite baiting that you would make a public accusation of such.

The comment was made to me "It's an MMO. Not a single player game"

If that is the philosophy being used, then overland should be designed in such a way to cater for groups.

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

So then why shouldn't the casuals who don't want to face a challenge have to be subjected to the same design?

Why do they get to have their "relaxing single player" questing time, while the rest of us have to be forced into group content because "it's an MMO, not a single player game"?

Many players who enjoy overland just as it is also enjoy challenges. They get these challenges in the content that exists just for this purpose, the same as everyone else.

Starlight_Knight

Just leaving my thoughts on this here as ive just noticed this thread.

I'm glad to see im not the only one who feels as though overland content is boringly easy.
I remember content was a lot more challenging and rewarding pre one tamriell, ofc i was running around in gear i found on the floor and spamming one skill over and over, but it was good and i actually died on things.

The argument for new players requiring a lower skill cap is valid but even considering this the over land content is still too easy.
With no cp and no gear on you can light attack mobs to death in a few hits. Once a new player figures out how to slot bombard on their bar they'll never be hit with anything again.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

That's not what my take amounts to at all

Except all of the other major content doesn't cater to them. Arenas? Hard. Dungeons? Hard. Trials? Hard. All of that content amounts to catering to you, the only one that doesn't is catering to them. You can't be the target audience of nearly all other content and then want one of the only ones that doesn't to also do so, while claiming it shouldn't cater to them, and not have it amount to that. Regardless if you meant it or not, that's the outcome of that being implemented. Forced vet overland kicks everyone who can't do it out of the game entirely. They have no other content but thankfully that's a large chunk of the game.

The people who find overland challenging are not catered to with group content nor difficult solo content. Many of them didn't even find that event boss fun this past Halloween and found it too hard. So when you say "why should they get Overland" that is the consequence of that train of thought.

Nearly ALL of the other content caters to what you stated you want to see from Overland. That shouldn't be ignored.

So saying Vet Overland should be forced is the same as saying you want to force them out of the game. As they have stated many times. They have to leave when you force it.

That's why any vet overland content should be optional.

Franchise408

spartaxoxo wrote: »

That's why any vet overland content should be optional.

I've been in agreement with that this whole time.

But many in the anti-vet overland *aren't* in agreement with that, and want to deny it period. OR those that won't be partaking in vet overland want to determine how a vet overland would be designed, which is just as unfair as those of us not wanting to participate in normal overland trying to dictate how the content is enforced upon you.

[snip]

[Edited for Discussion of Moderation Action]

spartaxoxo

I do want a harder vet experience in story quests and would use it.

I am in favor of a harder story experience. I would use it. Agreeing with the developers about what is and isn't a feasible or good solution does not make my opinion suddenly the opposite.

I have not once claimed someone was anti-vet Overland just because they did not like my debuff idea, depsite many people disagreeing with that idea just as much as I disagree about a separate instance.

You do not have to agree with any paritcular solution to want an optional vet overland.

Psiion

Greetings again all,

We understand that the discussion around Overland Content is quite heated, and many people here on the Forums are passionate about the debate, so we would like to remind to keep the conversation respectful. If you are feeling overwhelmed by a discussion, it is healthy to step away for a moment and find another thread to participate in, though we welcome anyone to report posts they encounter that violate the ESO Forum's Community Rules for the Moderation Team to review and handle. Moving forward, remember to keep the Community Rules in mind.

You can review the Community Rules in full here.

Malfious1986

I've been playing eso since the launch and I remember the huge build up to the battle with Molag Bal in the finale. It wasn't ridiculously hard but it was a good combination of difficulty and atmosphere for the final confrontation and I walked away with a sense of satisfaction.

I've since introduced a friend to the game as it is now, she got really into it, until they got to the point where they could smash the bosses in quest finales like it was nothing. To them it seemed odd that some of these big bosses were no harder than a delve boss. They had invested enough time into the game and story (the storytelling is mostly good), that they reached Molag Bal, the end villain, the big bad and then destroyed him like it was nothing at all. They stopped playing after that because there was no feeling of accomplishment.

And I understand where she is coming from. The overland content doesn't have to be maelstrom arena or vateshran in difficulty but when you have everything falling to you in seconds with no resistance at all, there is no sense of accomplishment and the only investment you have is time, not fulfillment. There needs to be an adjustment, there needs to be story bosses, like Molag Bal or Nocturnal or Merunes Dagon who can and will kill you if you make a mistake, if you don't dodge or block or use skills effectively, or learn theur attack patterns so that when you do best them you feel like a hero who beat the odds and actually accomplished something, not just another day at the office killing some wannebe delve boss.

I don't want super mega hardcore like arenas but dammit I want to be surprised every now and then, to not kill everything by spamming one move and nothing else in my rotation. Even a combination of different enemy types from different mobs in the overland would be a start, some of their attack patterns seem restricted to certain dlc content, why not a bigger mix and match or maybe some huge mobs of more than 5 dudes at a time? Just... something please. I've been playing this game years, I love the world of eso but the overland, the main content for me has become a boring cakewalk.

colossalvoids

Malfious1986 wrote: »

They stopped playing after that because there was no feeling of accomplishment.

Yeah one of the reasons why I can't really recommend this game to any people I know be it elder scrolls fans or just mmo players, can't just say with a straight face "buy this premium cost game while some as The Witcher or Kingdom Comes worth close to nothing, while being b2p you'll probably would need a sub anyway but ignore huge amount of content like questing and overland because the exciting game starts inside trials and arenas, it's fine. Pvp might get fixed some day though so you'll have some more to do one year". I might be already hooked enough but after seeing so many people go because it's boring is a sign of a problem to me personally.

Sylvermynx

I just can't believe no one but me has trouble with bosses like Molag Bal, Mulaamnir, Vandacia. I can't even count the number of times on two 50s at 300+ CP that I died to those three. Of course I have some situational issues, but y'all act like they're a walk in the park.

Anything BUT that for me.... I actually wish I could just wipe them in a few seconds. Nope. Me that wipes....

Toxic_Hemlock

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I just can't believe no one but me has trouble with bosses like Molag Bal, Mulaamnir, Vandacia. I can't even count the number of times on two 50s at 300+ CP that I died to those three. Of course I have some situational issues, but y'all act like they're a walk in the park.

Anything BUT that for me.... I actually wish I could just wipe them in a few seconds. Nope. Me that wipes....

In my case it is an age thing mostly. I struggle with some overland creatures too, trolls in particular, but I also have VERY bad reflexes. I do hope though that they actually read this entire thread and make changes optional and not just increase the overall difficulty.

I fear it will be my last MMO anyways, and I want to enjoy the experience while it lasts.

Sylvermynx

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I just can't believe no one but me has trouble with bosses like Molag Bal, Mulaamnir, Vandacia. I can't even count the number of times on two 50s at 300+ CP that I died to those three. Of course I have some situational issues, but y'all act like they're a walk in the park.

Anything BUT that for me.... I actually wish I could just wipe them in a few seconds. Nope. Me that wipes....

In my case it is an age thing mostly. I struggle with some overland creatures too, trolls in particular, but I also have VERY bad reflexes. I do hope though that they actually read this entire thread and make changes optional and not just increase the overall difficulty.

I fear it will be my last MMO anyways, and I want to enjoy the experience while it lasts.

Yes, my issues are age (74), reflexes not great any more, and not liking the "twitchy" combat - not to mention average 750ms ping. I'm not primarily an MMO player - I spent a decade in WoW and RIFT though not concurrently (where I had family who played) - and then I returned to single player games, notably Oblivion and Skyrim.

Most current MMOs are not anything I'd ever have an interest in. ESO is a lovely game, I really enjoy it, and I certainly will be unhappy if I can't play it in future. I'm fine with optional harder overland - but forcing it on everyone is just a bad idea overall.

colossalvoids

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I just can't believe no one but me has trouble with bosses like Molag Bal, Mulaamnir, Vandacia. I can't even count the number of times on two 50s at 300+ CP that I died to those three. Of course I have some situational issues, but y'all act like they're a walk in the park.

Anything BUT that for me.... I actually wish I could just wipe them in a few seconds. Nope. Me that wipes....

do hope though that they actually read this entire thread and make changes optional and not just increase the overall difficulty.

The most optimistic result would be just optional scroll/banner for instanced fights like the last one in a story line, there's zero chance they would randomly increase overland difficulty and seems like even optional one is too much to bother with in their case.

SilverBride

Malfious1986 wrote: »

I've been playing eso since the launch and I remember the huge build up to the battle with Molag Bal in the finale. It wasn't ridiculously hard but it was a good combination of difficulty and atmosphere for the final confrontation and I walked away with a sense of satisfaction.

I played beta and launch and Molag Bal was a very difficult fight. I was stuck for days trying to get past that fight on more than one character, to the point that I stopped rolling alts to try other classes so I wouldn't have to go through that again.

You say your friend stopped playing because there was no feeling of accomplishment. I had the opposite experience. So many players were leaving due to the difficulty of the veteran zones and the extreme difficulty and forced grouping in Craglorn, that I finally just disbanded my guild and left myself.

Most everyone here is ok with a debuff and optional veteran story bosses. But creating veteran versions of every single zone in the game on all platforms, then maintaining these is not feasible.

LashanW

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I just can't believe no one but me has trouble with bosses like Molag Bal, Mulaamnir, Vandacia. I can't even count the number of times on two 50s at 300+ CP that I died to those three. Of course I have some situational issues, but y'all act like they're a walk in the park.

Anything BUT that for me.... I actually wish I could just wipe them in a few seconds. Nope. Me that wipes....

You are the only person I have ever heard of, in 4 years of playing, who keeps playing ESO with 700+ ping. That is nightmare fuel. Even the most skilled players will be crippled in overland with ping like that. Because this is a major technical issue, it's not some situational issue that anyone should suffer. I bet it's the biggest reason if you are having issues with quest bosses. Have you ever tried a VPN btw? They might help with getting a more stable connection to ESO servers. No guarantees tho. But it definitely helped me. (for reference I use ExpressVPN)

If I had to suffer this game with such high ping I'd be making my character tankier and running sets like Thunderbug Carapace, Leeching plate and maybe Grothdaar (tho getting some of these might be problematic in the first place), I think I used Storm Knight's plate as well in the past. Even if I have no proper control over my character those sets would keep me alive and do the killing for me.