Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

Lysette wrote: »

Well, in a way all these creatures with the "dangerous animal" classification would need a buff up. The area were those are is marked on the map with a skull, so these should feel dangerous, but they just aren't - so maybe we need an adjustment of certain creature types, but not overall a raise in difficulty.

These creatures are more dangerous than wolves or bears but they are still trash mobs. They do not need a buff up and are fine just as they are. And buffing them would force increased difficulty on everyone which is not a good idea.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well. I had a massive problem with it - because it was inconsistent - like wolves where not wolves in every place, they were puppies in some zones and monsters in others. A wolf is a wolf, and it should feel and be the same in every zone. One Tamriel solved this problem - there are different types of wolves of course, but individuals of a species are the same.

What still have nothing to do with difficulty deficit. Every other aspect of One Tamriel is very good. They got rid of different levels, wich still doenst change the fact that it is to easy and that why every mob now adays on overland is a puppy. Wolf and trolls, except world bosses.

I give you that about trolls - they are not what their classification suggests - supposed to be "dangerous" (they count as such in endeavors), but they just aren't. They are not on par with Haj Mota and other creatures with that classification. Well, in a way all these creatures with the "dangerous animal" classification would need a buff up. The area were those are is marked on the map with a skull, so these should feel dangerous, but they just aren't - so maybe we need an adjustment of certain creature types, but not overall a raise in difficulty.

Nothing in Overland that's supposed to be dangerous is, quite frankly. I understand the trash mobs being trash, because the vestige shouldn't be able to be bodied by some lame-o cultist who fights with the help of a trained skeever. But elite mobs like Trolls should pose a threat and they just don't.

But whatever, that's how a lot like it. That's fine. But give the rest of us an option to experience danger the way it should be experienced.

Lysette

SilverBride wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, in a way all these creatures with the "dangerous animal" classification would need a buff up. The area were those are is marked on the map with a skull, so these should feel dangerous, but they just aren't - so maybe we need an adjustment of certain creature types, but not overall a raise in difficulty.

These creatures are more dangerous than wolves or bears but they are still trash mobs. They do not need a buff up and are fine just as they are. And buffing them would force increased difficulty on everyone which is not a good idea.

I have my issues with river trolls - once the forward key on my keyboard got stuck and a low level character of mine fell into the river in the Reach and moved along the river pulling 3 river trolls behind him, before I could get the key unstuck again. He had a resto staff and blue heavy armor. Should he be able to survive 3 river trolls all at once?- I don't think so, but he did survive it and had just to heal himself once. So these creatures, which count as "dangerous foes" in endeavors are much too weak for that classification. He did neither dodge nor block, he just tanked the incoming damage.

SilverBride

Lysette wrote: »

I have my issues with river trolls - once the forward key on my keyboard got stuck and a low level character of mine fell into the river in the Reach and moved along the river pulling 3 river trolls behind him, before I could get the key unstuck again. He had a resto staff and blue heavy armor. Should he be able to survive 3 river trolls all at once?- I don't think so, but he did survive it and had just to heal himself once. So these creatures, which count as "dangerous foes" in endeavors are much too weak for that classification. He did neither dodge nor block, he just tanked the incoming damage.

But they are still trash mobs, not world bosses, and your character was moving along the river, healed yourself once and tanked incoming damage. That is not unreasonable. And dangerous doesn't necessarily mean more powerful.

Lysette

SilverBride wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I have my issues with river trolls - once the forward key on my keyboard got stuck and a low level character of mine fell into the river in the Reach and moved along the river pulling 3 river trolls behind him, before I could get the key unstuck again. He had a resto staff and blue heavy armor. Should he be able to survive 3 river trolls all at once?- I don't think so, but he did survive it and had just to heal himself once. So these creatures, which count as "dangerous foes" in endeavors are much too weak for that classification. He did neither dodge nor block, he just tanked the incoming damage.

But they are still trash mobs, not world bosses, and your character was moving along the river, healed yourself once and tanked incoming damage. That is not unreasonable. And dangerous doesn't necessarily mean more powerful.

Ok, given that I know how to make my character tanky - he had just this one weapon, so he was below level 15 at that time. I remember that his health was about 28k and I guess with regeneration of 1.2 or 1.4k - because that is what my low level characters normally have. I don't know anymore, if he had the unstoppable damage shield available or not, but I guess because he was below level 15, most likely not yet. He had vigor and that is what I started to buff up his regeneration, to keep him save once health dropped. Still, a character that low level with a crappy resto staff should not survive 3 river trolls.

I was not moving during the fight, I just moved along the river because my forward key was stuck, but once I got it unstuck, I was just standing there - I get latency spikes of around 700ms in combat, if I would move I would be totally confused what is going on around me due to the delay in which I get to see what is happening. Left and right of me were steep river banks and around me those river trolls.

Edit: now when I think about it, it is possible that he had dark shadow with shadow barrier passive active - but not certain about it. Ok, it is not unreasonable, you are right, I might have been overly tanky for a low level character.

spartaxoxo

To give a better idea as to why new optional difficulty settings are needed. I have been going through the story in chronological order with my original character, turned pure crafter, turned main. This was my experience with some of the Dragonhold main story quests.

https://youtu.be/q3IU9yvIlXI

And this is my experience with mobs. This one is a so-called elite one, and is the recently discussed river trolls.

https://youtu.be/WTDxmuSRNto

Lysette

Yeah, pretty underwhelming at your strength - it takes me a little longer to deal with that river troll, but not that much longer, even with a low level character. They have an incredibly long cool down timer for their attacks IMO, and now with Mirri they are even faster dead - first she is pushing it on it's back, then she jumps on him and finally she fears it, stunning it - so not much to do for me, I cast consuming trap on it and another DoT and Mirri can deal with that troll on her own then.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

Yeah, pretty underwhelming at your strengthl.

That last boss is literally automatically defeated when's he's downed. You're actually only responsible for the mob packs, which wouldn't be so bad if the elite ones didn't go down so easy. I encourage anyone who doesn't understand why we need options to at least watch the last video if not both. It's only a few seconds.

LashanW

spartaxoxo wrote: »

To give a better idea as to why new optional difficulty settings are needed. I have been going through the story in chronological order with my original character, turned pure crafter, turned main. This was my experience with some of the Dragonhold main story quests.

I've never done those quests before. And my lord that was painful to watch. Was surprised to see a quest boss with 17m HP, but of course there's a gimmick there that eats 1/3rd of that conveniently for you.

Why in the world was that ice dragon so weak? You can stand in their breath attack and it barely scratches you? As someone who has done Sunspire a lot, seeing a dragon breath attack coming your way is absolutely terrifying. But here? jeez. For a moment I thought your game was bugged or something.

Why did the fire dragon let himself be frozen 3 times in the exact same way? Seems dumb. Should've had the ice dragon incapacitate him in 3 different ways to make it more believable. Some story writing that is...

If Lokkestiiz saw this he'd kill himself out of sheer embarassment as a fellow ice dragon, considering dragons are depicted as very prideful creatures.

spartaxoxo

LashanW wrote: »

I've never done those quests before. And my lord that was painful to watch.

Yeah. And the sad part is, with the exception of the pale order ring (which I didn't even attack the last dragon, just his minions with the exception of a tiny bit to trigger the fight so it might as well not even have been equipped) all of my gear is from the base game.

SilverBride

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

LashanW

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding.

Nothing sad about player characters. It's actually hilarious.
Pretty sad however, for the evil terrifying dragons and other world ending threats.

SilverBride wrote: »

What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

There's a difference between struggling and being untouchable without tank oriented gear while being semi-afk in front of a godlike creature 30 times larger than me.

This is basically what I feel during questing. Even after removing CP and my good gear.
https://youtu.be/c4t7JnCW-48

SilverBride

LashanW wrote: »

This is basically what I feel during questing. Even after removing CP and my good gear.

I feel relaxed and satisfied during questing. As I stated, nothing is wrong with overland. It's just personal preference.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

Lysette

I like it as well as it is, with a few exceptions like those trolls, which are not on par with other creatures in that group. But I do not expect the game to be challenging, what I expect is a good adventurous experience - I basically expect a theme park and that is what I get - so to me it is fine like this. If I would expect something different, it would not be ok though. So I can understand, that it feels underwhelming to those, expecting a challenge - overland is certainly not where to find it,

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be completed even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

See, you understand that concept the other way round, with Dark Souls, and it is totally understandable for you, that it should not be allowed to dismantle it's game play concept. So why don't you understand that in ESO, that it should not be allowed to dismantle it's gameplay concept as well. Overland is not meant to be any hard - and that's it.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be complete even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

No. I don't have just because of expectations. The gameplay this game sells itself on is an action based rpg, but you to stop engaging in action gameplay to experience the rpg part after you collect enough gear. The gameplay experience you experience when you are new is not remotely reflective of the gameplay experience you get later merely because you played well.

That is a fundamental design flaw. Many of the people love this game the way it is only because they haven't obtained the power level to change the nature of the gameplay. I know because they literally stated they have implied the companions are like the average player, power wise. If you don't have that level of power, this game is an easy action rpg. If you do have that level of power, you can't do the action part anymore. Because stuff will die too quick.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be complete even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

No. I don't have just because of expectations. The gameplay this game sells itself on is an action based rpg, but you to stop engaging in action gameplay to experience the rpg part after you collect enough gear. The gameplay experience you experience when you are new is not remotely reflective of the gameplay experience you get later merely because you played well.

That is a fundamental design flaw. Many of the people love this game the way it is only because they haven't obtained the power level to change the nature of the gameplay. I know because they literally stated they have implied the companions are like the average player, power wise. If you don't have that level of power, this game is an easy action rpg. If you do have that level of power, you can't do the action part anymore. Because stuff will die too quick.

Yeah, and that is why people play it wrong, if they go for getting to level 50 the quickest way possible. The game is fun to play by not levelling as fast as possible, but by doing this and that and slowly get to level 50 - that is what an RPG is like normally, you get to the top rather slowly while experiencing the game world. That "endgame" mentality of a lot of people is what is killing that concept. They grind their way to the top instead of playing through the content - and once they are "veterans" they find out, that they played the game in a way it was not meant to be played - bad luck, I would say.

I was the one implying that companions are modelled after an average player in overland, or just slightly below them. And now go and watch people playing in overland. Does that look to you as if they are much stronger than their companions, if those are level 20?- To me it doesn't, they are as bad as they were before, just in better gear.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be complete even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

No. I don't have just because of expectations. The gameplay this game sells itself on is an action based rpg, but you to stop engaging in action gameplay to experience the rpg part after you collect enough gear. The gameplay experience you experience when you are new is not remotely reflective of the gameplay experience you get later merely because you played well.

That is a fundamental design flaw. Many of the people love this game the way it is only because they haven't obtained the power level to change the nature of the gameplay. I know because they literally stated they have implied the companions are like the average player, power wise. If you don't have that level of power, this game is an easy action rpg. If you do have that level of power, you can't do the action part anymore. Because stuff will die too quick.

Yeah, and that is why people play it wrong, if they go for getting to level 50 the quickest way possible.

It shouldn't be possible to play it wrong. That's a game design problem. I'm not saying they should force any changes on the people that enjoy the game as it is. But they should be providing options so that people can at the very least get a similar experience to what they get at a low power level (which isn't hard but is at least still allows full action rpg gameplay rather than pulled punches). I don't mind it sometimes. I like relaxing games sometimes with no real combat. I enjoyed the TellTale games and just got life is strange 2. But this is an action rpg, I should always have a real option to play it as one.

The developers also implied that's where the rest of the playerbase is when they explained the companions are at the power level that they are so players wouldn't want to replace another player for them.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be complete even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

No. I don't have just because of expectations. The gameplay this game sells itself on is an action based rpg, but you to stop engaging in action gameplay to experience the rpg part after you collect enough gear. The gameplay experience you experience when you are new is not remotely reflective of the gameplay experience you get later merely because you played well.

That is a fundamental design flaw. Many of the people love this game the way it is only because they haven't obtained the power level to change the nature of the gameplay. I know because they literally stated they have implied the companions are like the average player, power wise. If you don't have that level of power, this game is an easy action rpg. If you do have that level of power, you can't do the action part anymore. Because stuff will die too quick.

Yeah, and that is why people play it wrong, if they go for getting to level 50 the quickest way possible.

It shouldn't be possible to play it wrong. That's a game design problem. I'm not saying they should force any changes on the people that enjoy the game as it is. But they should be providing options so that people can at the very least get a similar experience to what they get at a low power level (which isn't hard but is at least still an action rpg). I don't mind it sometimes. I like relaxing games sometimes with no real combat. I enjoyed the TellTale games and just got life is strange 2. But this is an action rpg, I should always have a real option to play it as one.

I understand you, it is not that I wouldn't see it. But when I watch people playing, I can as well see, that a lot of those "veterans" are not actual veterans by performance, but just by numbers. I see people in the CP 1000+ range, making basic mistakes in combat. That CP 1000+ just means, they have played a lot, but not necessarily that they are too powerful to enjoy overland content. I'm thinking of a friend of mine, who once enjoyed questing - with not much clue about the game actually - then she joined a guild, was immediately armored with champion gear by her guildies and from that time on I saw her in Ali'kir doing dolmens endless times. The actual game, overland, was lost by her, from now on she was a guildie doing dolmens - and soon she had CP 500, CP 1000 and she is about CP 1300 now. And still has not much of a clue about the game.

She said lately to me that she wants to be tank and is not daring to do it - holy cow, she shouldn't, she had not even an idea how to taunt an enemy or how to be tanky resource-wise - because when she was out with her guild to do stuff, she basically was under the protection of their healers and did not get any of the mechanics of the game. That is what a lot of "veterans" are like with CP 1000+ - they are still newbies in a way, they pretty much never had to rely on themselves.

LashanW

Lysette wrote: »

let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Here's an awesome fact about the Dark Souls franchise. They are single player games with completely optional minor online elements. They have an offline mode. So you use any mods you wish to adjust the gameplay to your liking and experience the stories as a theme park.
Like this one for example,
https://www.nexusmods.com/darksoulsremastered/mods/293

Can I use some mods to increase difficulty of ESO overland stories? Nope. I'll lose my account and access to the game for violating ToS.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see anything sad about being powerful and succeeding. What I find sad is struggling when we are supposed to be a hero.

Also, river trolls are just slightly harder trash mobs.

I disagree that overland mobs and story fights are too easy or are broken in any way. They aren't. We just have different preferences.

It is sad because there's no way to change it, not because there's something wrong with wanting an easy experience. It is sad because this game becomes that trivial to someone who isn't even wearing the best gear out there, they'd have an even easier time. Well except in that last fight, I mostly didn't even attack Latvulaan at all and won that one. Not having anyway to change that is sad.

Many players are perfectly fine with overland just as it is and the game has been very successful since it was changed with One Tamriel. The real issue is that different players have different expectations and preferences for how they liked to play. The fact that some players prefer something different than what overland currently is doesn't mean it's broken.

If players can get so powerful gathering basic gear that they can't actually play the game and still have an engaging experience, then yes, the Overland is broken. They don't have to fix that problem by taking away the overland that people like, but there is a clear issue.

That is the question if it is broken - let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Dark Souls doesn't offer anything that allows you to dismantle the gameplay experience with no remedy. Overland does. It shouldn't be possible for a player to break the experience so much that they have to stop playing to engage with it, without any solution offered at all. The lack of any option is a design flaw.

No, you have that problem, because you expect something from overland what it is not. It is not meant to be a challenge, it is meant to be a story-driven, adventurous theme-park like experience, where you play through the story. Some called it a visual novel, well yeah, it is something like this - and that is what most seem to enjoy, a story-driven theme park, where playing through the story is easy and can be complete even by those, not caring about game mechanics. Overland is just not the area, where you should expect challenge, because there is none, by design. It is meant to be a playground, not a battle field.

No. I don't have just because of expectations. The gameplay this game sells itself on is an action based rpg, but you to stop engaging in action gameplay to experience the rpg part after you collect enough gear. The gameplay experience you experience when you are new is not remotely reflective of the gameplay experience you get later merely because you played well.

That is a fundamental design flaw. Many of the people love this game the way it is only because they haven't obtained the power level to change the nature of the gameplay. I know because they literally stated they have implied the companions are like the average player, power wise. If you don't have that level of power, this game is an easy action rpg. If you do have that level of power, you can't do the action part anymore. Because stuff will die too quick.

Yeah, and that is why people play it wrong, if they go for getting to level 50 the quickest way possible.

It shouldn't be possible to play it wrong. That's a game design problem. I'm not saying they should force any changes on the people that enjoy the game as it is. But they should be providing options so that people can at the very least get a similar experience to what they get at a low power level (which isn't hard but is at least still an action rpg). I don't mind it sometimes. I like relaxing games sometimes with no real combat. I enjoyed the TellTale games and just got life is strange 2. But this is an action rpg, I should always have a real option to play it as one.

I understand you, it is not that I wouldn't see it. But when I watch people playing, I can as well see, that a lot of those "veterans" are not actual veterans by performance, but just by numbers.

Okay. But that's different because a player being able to mess up overland so easily doesn't have much bearing on their skill. If there was a difficulty setting she might not use it until she gained more confidence in her abilities. Regardless though, she should have the option.

While I won't deny that I'd prefer they make any vet content they added pretty hard, I think at the bare minimum they should be having options to address the problem that arises from not having leveled zones. If you play through the story in those games, the combat adjusts to you because as you progress through the story you go to higher level zones. It gets easier and easier but it generally doesn't get so easy that you have to pull punches in those other games. The idea that the best way to play the rpg is not to play isn't a thing in most other games. But it is the best way for me to listen to dialogue in some cases, or actually see what a boss is capable of.

It's a great and wonderful thing this game doesn't have the levels anymore. The freedom to explore is part of what makes this game so fantastic and given them a lot of success. But it's not entirely flawless. The flaw is that because it's designed around new players, high skill players can reach a point where not playing is their best option for hearing the story. That's a problem that should be addressed by adding something like an optional difficulty slider.

Lysette

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

let's take Dark Souls, for example, is that game broken, just because I think it is by far too hard to be fun?- What if I would expect it to be changed to be easier to play to feel included?- Is that game broken or is it not? Just because it is not fulfilling my requirements, does not mean, it is broken - it is just not the game for me - simple as that.

Here's an awesome fact about the Dark Souls franchise. They are single player games with completely optional minor online elements. They have an offline mode. So you use any mods you wish to adjust the gameplay to your liking and experience the stories as a theme park.
Like this one for example,
https://www.nexusmods.com/darksoulsremastered/mods/293

Can I use some mods to increase difficulty of ESO overland stories? Nope. I'll lose my account and access to the game for violating ToS.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in a game which is combat-heavy - I just used that as an example to make something clear about game concepts and what it means to want something different from a game than it actually is. I enjoyed Metro though and a few fps, which were combat heavy, but had enough role play elements to be fun. I'm not necessarily against combat, but games which put the focus on combat, are not my cuppa.

spartaxoxo

Actually let me put it this way.

What if Dark Souls had a piece of armor that I could equip that made the game trivially easy. Once I put it on, I can't unequip it. Everyone who isn't in that gear is experiencing a dark, brutal and difficult game. I'm experiencing a cake walk.

Can you really say I'm experiencing the same game? Wouldn't you say they should give an option to unequip that so that I can experience the same game as others? Wouldn't you be blaming dark souls for making such a gear item rather than me for wanting to shed this easy mode, and actually get to experience the game the way the majority of players gets to experience it? Because that's what having a lot of skill feels like in this game. I can't unlearn good timing. I have to actively try to play poorly or in some cases literally stop attacking at all. I'm not kidding about that. Literally stop attacking at all, to experience the full story that people in the same way as the majority of players experience it.

Sometimes I don't mind. It's like a TellTale game. I'm relaxed and having a good time and giving my hands a break. Others it really kills immersion. When I find it killing immersion, I just stop playing. I have to be in a specific mindset to enjoy it, even if I want to play the game.

I should just be able to play when I want to play by using optional difficulty settings.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Actually let me put it this way.

What if Dark Souls had a piece of armor that I could equip that made the game trivially easy. Once I put it on, I can't unequip it. Everyone who isn't in that gear is experiencing a dark, brutal and difficult game. I'm experiencing a cake walk.

Can you really say I'm experiencing the same game? Wouldn't you say they should give an option to unequip that so that I can experience the same game as others? Wouldn't you be blaming dark souls for making such a gear item rather than me for wanting to shed this easy mode, and actually get to experience the game the way the majority of players gets to experience it? Because that's what having a lot of skill feels like in this game. I can't unlearn good timing. I have to actively try to play poorly or in some cases literally stop attacking at all. I'm not kidding about that. Literally stop attacking at all, to experience the full story that people in the same way as the majority of players experience it.

Sometimes I don't mind. It's like a TellTale game. I'm relaxed and having a good time and giving my hands a break. Others it really kills immersion. When I find it killing immersion, I just stop playing. I have to be in a specific mindset to enjoy it, even if I want to play the game.

I should just be able to play when I want to play by using optional difficulty settings.

Yeah, I agree - and if you could get that in an own instance, I am all for it. I just don't want to have this in the same instance as I'm playing, because it will not just reduce my enjoyment of the game but as well yours, when you struggle with an enemy, and the next newbie comes in and kills it with a few strikes and takes the victory from you. That is the other way round than what we casuals experience when you guys come and kill our targets while passing by. These player groups should not be mixed.

Problem is though, that ZOS isn't likely to give you your own instance - and that is why I'm protective of my game play, it is endangered by your request and it might not be that much fun to play anymore, if both groups are in the same instance.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Actually let me put it this way.

What if Dark Souls had a piece of armor that I could equip that made the game trivially easy. Once I put it on, I can't unequip it. Everyone who isn't in that gear is experiencing a dark, brutal and difficult game. I'm experiencing a cake walk.

Can you really say I'm experiencing the same game? Wouldn't you say they should give an option to unequip that so that I can experience the same game as others? Wouldn't you be blaming dark souls for making such a gear item rather than me for wanting to shed this easy mode, and actually get to experience the game the way the majority of players gets to experience it? Because that's what having a lot of skill feels like in this game. I can't unlearn good timing. I have to actively try to play poorly or in some cases literally stop attacking at all. I'm not kidding about that. Literally stop attacking at all, to experience the full story that people in the same way as the majority of players experience it.

Sometimes I don't mind. It's like a TellTale game. I'm relaxed and having a good time and giving my hands a break. Others it really kills immersion. When I find it killing immersion, I just stop playing. I have to be in a specific mindset to enjoy it, even if I want to play the game.

I should just be able to play when I want to play by using optional difficulty settings.

Yeah, I agree - and if you could get that in an own instance, I am all for it. I just don't want to have this in the same instance as I'm playing, because it will not just reduce my enjoyment of the game but as well yours, when you struggle with an enemy, and the next newbie comes in and kills it with a few strikes and takes the victory from you. That is the other way round than what we casuals experience when you guys come and kill our targets while passing by. These player groups should not be mixed.

Problem is though, that ZOS isn't likely to give you your own instance - and that is why I'm protective of my game play, it is endangered by your request and it might not be that much fun to play anymore, if both groups are in the same instance.

Then advocate for a separate instance rather than argue there's no problem here? Because honestly, there's a problem here. I prefer a slider and don't see players being together as an issue in an MMO. It worked for LOTRO, don't see why it wouldn't work here. I do see a separate instance as better than maintaining the status quo. But no matter the solution they choose, they need to do something. It's a design problem that's completely unfair to higher power players. We're essentially punished for getting better at the game due to the design decision to give us literally no options for increasing difficulty. It's consumer unfriendly game design and flawed.