dark convergence is ruining cyrodiil

trackdemon5512

kargen27 wrote: »

Last night at Bleakers got silly. Daggerfall Covenant held Bleakers Ebonheart Pact wanted it. I was inside Bleakers healing when the spam fest began. If you were on oils you died because of Dark Convergence. If you tried to rez players that died you died to Dark Convergence. I was on the stairs (2nd from the top) and got pulled to the edge of the center ring twice. Survived once but got stuck the 2nd time. Dark Convergence was on the front door so you couldn't go out that way to try and attack. The side I was on there were players keeping Dark Convergence going pretty much all the time on the side door so no getting out there. Didn't go look at the other side. Basically we the defenders that were not dead and unreachable waited on the stairs for the attackers to come in the door so we could spam our own Dark Convergence on the opening. Then it was just Dark Convergence by all that had it on the flags until the end.

Daggerfall Covenant was close to pop locked then but after that fight players all of a sudden had somewhere else to be. Was some talk of can't wait until Tuesday as they headed out the door. Kinda hope the can't wait till Tuesday talk was just a hot headed reaction to how messed up Dark COnvergence is right now.

I'm thinking the changes on the test server might make things worse. Players need to be near each other to run a ram. Players on oils need o be near each other. Players going though a breach need to be near each other. Doors on a keep are narrower than twenty meters so Dark Convergence still covers the entire breech. It isn't feasible to trickle into a keep you are trying to take one or two at a time.
A 2nd breech doesn't change much.

You need only 6 players on a ram. Anyone else isn't doing anything.

There are plenty of spots for oils. If oils can work then move elsewhere, put up a meatball catapult or lancer to hit the spot.

If an enemy is killing you because of DC at a breach they can kill you with just catapults, cold fire ballista, caltrops, etc. Two meatball catapults were enough to stop a Zerg pre-DC so post-DC the set is really just finishing you off.

Opening a second breach for a well defended keep ALWAYS helps as it splits the defense. One sorc can throw a single negate on a hole in the wall and the entire Zerg will get through. Holes in walls allow players to spread immediately in a 180 degree arc. Thats very different from a front gate which funnels players through a short corridor before being able to spread out. The reason y'all have such trouble with front gates is that you take the easy siege way out and get upset when it's easily countered.

In a ball group or in a Zerg, you all have stuck to the same tactics for years. Ball groups are tighter in execution but are the same as a Zerg essentially. Dark Convergence wasn't designed just for ball group but also for Zergs. It works better on ball groups because they purposely move tightly together. But it works just as well on Zergs because ya'll run tight and the inexperienced don't know to spread out or avoid clear mechanics.

DC is a very fair set. It works well because your fellow players just aren't good enough to read what's coming.

kargen27

Yep six players all in one spot on a ram just waiting to be hit.

Sure you can put oils anywhere but you want to put them above the enemy. That usually is above the door. If you have on oil at the grate in Bleakers and a player is on the opposite side of the grate as far away from you as they can get and still use oil at the door you both can be hit by the same dark convergence.

Before dark convergence you could get your shields and all that fun stuff up time a run go through the breach and take a sharp right. Now with dark convergence you get your shields up give it a run and just before that right you get sucked back into all that fun stuff you mentioned.

I know perfectly well how to clear things. Not much fun though when PvP becomes clear clear clear get off half a rotation maybe then clear clear clear clear.

You are correct it is a fair set. It is ruining Cyrodiil for everybody involved. Even those running it, they just don't know it yet. And yeah we can read what is coming. It's a whole series of Dark Convergence all placed so getting out of one puts you in another.

When you can be nowhere on the top of Bleakers (and I do mean nowhere) and not be pulled off by this set then there is something wrong with the set. I was still on the stairs when it got me.

Mrtoobyy

I've been playing this game since beta and started playing pvp seriously about 3 years ago. The other weekend was the first time I broke something due to frustration in this game. Maybe it's because I am older or had a bad day or maybe it could be that every freaking time I get interrupted mid casting and getting pulled around like a ping pong ball. I only die 20% of the time to the set but getting stopped every other second in between the regular CC is, I don't even know how to put it.
It's basically like someone physically taking away your M/KB for a couple of seconds, I mean of course that is frustrating.
I HATE this set so much I wanna say so many ugly words about the person who created it but I know that is uncalled for. ZOS I don't think anyone can miss how much disaporoval this set has. PLEASE change the set sooner

Cronopoly

One set should not be more useful than ANY classes identity or player's skill. DarkConv.

No one asked for 1 "skill" 🙄 that's like a Ranged Talons, and near instant Proxy Det all in one...wheeee.

I can only imagine what players are not talking about in PVE dungeons, solo or otherwise.

I'm wondering if this was released as a reaction to another MMO releasing tomorrow. I'm personally not interested at this time though.

Xandreia_

Pvp is honestly in the worst state it has ever been. I would rather have hrothgar back to how it was rather than a set that pulls you in and combined with lag is the most op set in the game! I love how people say "just block it" " roll dodge".... 9times out of 10 that doesn't work in peak times.

Not to mention that in 4 weeks, proc sets are about to crit again.

It honestly seems like we are being pushed off of a game that not only ignores a large portion of it's player base but also refuses to make the right decisions to benefit both pve and pvp instead of creating huge divides between both sides of the community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please listen to us!! Your team is making one side of the game unplayable while ignoring the server issues that should be fixed before any further sets/content is released

Girl_Number8

kargen27 wrote: »

I decided to go ahead and grab myself a set and see what I could do. Messed with it a couple of days and found myself paying more attention to whether or not it was ready to go off and where I should throw down something to trigger it. Went back to my normal gear last night. Had a lot more fun and did better because I got back to my regular rotation and play style. That set is toxic in a whole lot of ways. I can see players getting lazy with it and losing what PvP skills (player skills not those assigned to characters) they might have.
It is a crutch for a lot of players and some of those players don't need the crutch. They soon will though if they don't get away from it soon.

The biggest crutch is a Zerg

kargen27

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I decided to go ahead and grab myself a set and see what I could do. Messed with it a couple of days and found myself paying more attention to whether or not it was ready to go off and where I should throw down something to trigger it. Went back to my normal gear last night. Had a lot more fun and did better because I got back to my regular rotation and play style. That set is toxic in a whole lot of ways. I can see players getting lazy with it and losing what PvP skills (player skills not those assigned to characters) they might have.
It is a crutch for a lot of players and some of those players don't need the crutch. They soon will though if they don't get away from it soon.

The biggest crutch is a Zerg

Maybe, but all this set does is make the zerg even more formidable. It is doing the opposite of what it was designed to do and creating all kinds of new problems. I don't mind that we can be killed while on siege on top of a keep but we shouldn't be pulled from the keep the way that set does. Out in the open it is only atrociously annoying. When battling for a keep it rips at the very soul.
I don't think it can be done but making it so dark convergences can't overlap would help with everything but the yanking off of walls. Players have become really proficient at placing that thing just right so that the enemy gets stuck or falls into a pool of AoE.

editing to add personally I think this is going the wrong way in addressing the problem of zergs. Long ago zergs and ball groups were dealt with by zergs and ball groups. Power in numbers mattered as it should. A good small group could (and still can) wipe out a zerg or ball group that isn't as tight game play wise. Problem is two large groups get near each other we get the unbearable lag. So we have smaller populations and are now getting things to try and keep players away from each other. Cyrodiil was suppose to be big epic battles. That should mean lots of players working together. This set wrecks that vision. It in my opinion shows ZoS has abandoned the hope of ever having epic battles again.

GoodFella146

I like the set. It's nice having something as counterplay.

Jaraal

kargen27 wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I decided to go ahead and grab myself a set and see what I could do. Messed with it a couple of days and found myself paying more attention to whether or not it was ready to go off and where I should throw down something to trigger it. Went back to my normal gear last night. Had a lot more fun and did better because I got back to my regular rotation and play style. That set is toxic in a whole lot of ways. I can see players getting lazy with it and losing what PvP skills (player skills not those assigned to characters) they might have.
It is a crutch for a lot of players and some of those players don't need the crutch. They soon will though if they don't get away from it soon.

The biggest crutch is a Zerg

Maybe, but all this set does is make the zerg even more formidable. It is doing the opposite of what it was designed to do and creating all kinds of new problems. I don't mind that we can be killed while on siege on top of a keep but we shouldn't be pulled from the keep the way that set does. Out in the open it is only atrociously annoying. When battling for a keep it rips at the very soul.

Agreed. I have no issues with having to put up siege shields and heal through incoming damage from outside the keep. But allowing us to get pulled from our defensive positions down to the zerg below and automatically losing our siege machines is something that hasn't been part of Cyrodiil for the last seven years, and was immediately patched whenever it became a factor before.

The only reason I can think of that ZOS hasn't fixed this, is that keeps are flipping way faster now, since many people refuse to defend with siege, and basically just wait for the doors to open and start the hand to hand brawl. Perhaps they like way it's changed the battle.... although you would think it goes directly against their statement that they wanted to "increase the Time To Kill." People are dying way faster with all the DC bombs. But their silence on the matter, and refusal to fix any part of it on live tells a different story.

shimm

GoodFella146 wrote: »

I like the set. It's nice having something as counterplay.

Except 1 or 2 people can’t “counterplay” with dark convergence when facing a 12 person group with half (or more) of the group running it.

trackdemon5512

shimm wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

I like the set. It's nice having something as counterplay.

Except 1 or 2 people can’t “counterplay” with dark convergence when facing a 12 person group with half (or more) of the group running it.

Negate. 1 person can shut it down as they try to run through a flag.

Also can someone link to a video of DC actually pulling people through walls? I played for hours and never saw this once. I see players dragged to the edges of walls and keeps. They end up roll dodging off the side but that’s more on them than the set. Like with the COH2 penultimate boss where players roll into one another.

Frankly I see it as a fair counterplay to players using their positions above and the ease of simply taking a step back to fully heal up in a second and go back to raining down blows.

ealdwin

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

I like the set. It's nice having something as counterplay.

Except 1 or 2 people can’t “counterplay” with dark convergence when facing a 12 person group with half (or more) of the group running it.

Frankly I see it as a fair counterplay to players using their positions above and the ease of simply taking a step back to fully heal up in a second and go back to raining down blows.

Fair counterplay would be setting up siege on the outer walls/towers or on higher terrain or further back to try and deter defenders on the top. Fair counterplay would be dedicated healers using siege shield to defend a gap so that attackers can survive enough to pour in.

Fair counterplay is not a set single-handedly pulling defenders away from the siege and off of walls. That's just broken.

Gilvoth

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

[snip]

Exactly!
well said!

[edited to remove quote]

kargen27

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

I like the set. It's nice having something as counterplay.

Except 1 or 2 people can’t “counterplay” with dark convergence when facing a 12 person group with half (or more) of the group running it.

Negate. 1 person can shut it down as they try to run through a flag.

Also can someone link to a video of DC actually pulling people through walls? I played for hours and never saw this once. I see players dragged to the edges of walls and keeps. They end up roll dodging off the side but that’s more on them than the set. Like with the COH2 penultimate boss where players roll into one another.

Frankly I see it as a fair counterplay to players using their positions above and the ease of simply taking a step back to fully heal up in a second and go back to raining down blows.

Nah the answer shouldn't be an ultimate that is class specific. If Dark Convergence were an ultimate instead of an armor set then maybe but only if they fix it so it doesn't yank players off walls. As an ultimate it wouldn't be all that bad because that would get rid of the constant spamming.

trackdemon5512

kargen27 wrote: »

Negate. 1 person can shut it down as they try to run through a flag.

Also can someone link to a video of DC actually pulling people through walls? I played for hours and never saw this once. I see players dragged to the edges of walls and keeps. They end up roll dodging off the side but that’s more on them than the set. Like with the COH2 penultimate boss where players roll into one another.

Frankly I see it as a fair counterplay to players using their positions above and the ease of simply taking a step back to fully heal up in a second and go back to raining down blows.

Nah the answer shouldn't be an ultimate that is class specific. If Dark Convergence were an ultimate instead of an armor set then maybe but only if they fix it so it doesn't yank players off walls. As an ultimate it wouldn't be all that bad because that would get rid of the constant spamming. [/quote]

Except Negate has pretty much been the only solution to ball groups running around with their gaggle of sets and coordinated procs for years now.

Can’t tell ya how many times I’ve joined a random Cyro group and Sorcs were asked to slot negate and everyone else proxy det. It was the only way to stop groups from running up and down the stairs of keeps, constantly respawning their members, and stupid meaningless battles designed just to farm deaths went on for hours.

DC putting an end to that is a fair trade off. And if you’re countersieging from a wall by this point you know better. Move up to the topmost rafters to set up trebuchets and ballistas. Set up oils on the inside grates.

I can only hope more sets come out that stop the traditional boring play we’ve seen for the last several years.

kargen27

"DC putting an end to that is a fair trade off. And if you’re countersieging from a wall by this point you know better. Move up to the topmost rafters to set up trebuchets and ballistas. Set up oils on the inside grates."

I was on the stairs healing in Bleakers and got pulled to the center edge. Got stuck once and died. Players standing back trying to rez players that were on oils were being sucked in. It wasn't the mess it is now. Players have got really proficient in placing and stacking to have the best chance of yanking players over the edge. It is out of control and I don't think the suggested changes will be the fix. We shall see though. Hope I am wrong.

KashyyyK240

With cleansing being kicked out of builds by Plaguebreaker, I had to replace my healer's Curse Eater with another set. Obviously I picked DC, because who wouldn't run that nowadays, lol, and I gotta say it turned my build from healing only into off-healer quicker than using Crimson.

Before DC I had to rely on my teammates to get the job done while I try and keep them alive.
With DC equipped I lead the charges by pulling 5-6 zerglings into my boneyard+colossus+blastbones combos which usually leave the enemies at 40-50% hp waiting to get hit with a DB or some other huge burst aoe.

Remember that I said I was a full healer? I now run an offensive front bar and still keep my guys alive thanks to Gossamer and Earthgore. (you still gotta counter their DCs, right?)
Enemies cast too many DCs and you can't take the keep? Jump cast a revealing flare on their walls and watch them falling into the zerg pit.
Another tactic against DC spam that I found to be working is storming the doors on Mist Form. 95% of the times I tried it, no DCs were cast in time before we got to the back flag.

The only things I'd like changed with DC is how the lag affects it. Under heavy lag (the usual amount of lag for ESO's standards) the purple bubble effect only appears after you get pulled and damaged.
There's also another problem with the DANGER RED CIRCLE which sometimes doesn't appear for the full duration of the proc making you think it's a friendly DC when IT'S NOT!

Dojohoda

I gave gray host a try this evening and I want to offer a few honest opinions.

• Dark convergence is everywhere. It is the zergs' new toy.
• Dark convergence disrupts gameplay; any kind of flow is destroyed.
• PVP is ruined by Dark Convergence and this is not the game I enjoyed a few weeks ago.
• Dark Convergence needs to be removed entirely.

Alchimiste1

As Others have said dark convergence destroys gameplay. Honestly pvp in its current state just isn't fun.

Its not the damage but the pull is just so annoying. if you go offensive you get pulled, if you go defensive you get pulled. Games who can stack the most Dark convergences. Not enjoyable.

I'm probably taking a break from pvp and work on my real endgame(housing), maybe a break from the game for a bit

Hotdog_23

Starting to see it a lot in BG on console now. Always at least one player wearing it and doing like 2-3 times the damage of everyone else. Generally, it’s a Tank built DK who stands in the middle of the proc and hits talons when you are pulled in, lol. Not sure why it’s allowed in BG when it was designed to counter ball groups in Cyrodiil.

Stay safe everyone and ZOS please fix the green tree micromanaging

peacenote

I never run in ball groups and don't generally participate in organized PvP. Usually I am duoing in Cyro. Was again there last weekend and found DC very invasive and frustrating because of the pull.

If the point of the set is to disrupt ball groups, it should not be that problematic for a duo. Therefore I don't agree with people saying it's working as intended. The set is too OP and it is the pull that makes you want to throw something... being constantly moved, often by an unseen enemy, is NOT ok. Even when I end up winning I just hate constantly being pulled off my path.

Ball group opponents never frustrated me like this set does, tbh.

faeeichenlaub

When I die from something other than Proxy Det DC. I wanna give that player a high five.

Vevvev

Gadget4 wrote: »

.

Jaraal wrote: »

But it’s only an exploit if ZOS says it’s unintended behavior. Since they have said nothing about how Dark Convergence interacts with players on or behind walls, it’s safe to assume that it’s working as intended.

This is the only comment in the PTS notes:

PvP Sourced

Dark Convergence:
Reduced this set's damage by approximately 59% but increased the scaling per target to 50%, up from 10%.
Reduced the radius of the effect to 10 meters, down from 12.
This set now pulls once after its delay, rather than twice over its duration.
The pull now pulls all nearby targets rather than 6 per pull so that it remains effective against large groups.
Developer Comment:

This set is currently seeing a lot of success in its original target area of killing large groups and players who don't respect the Area of Effect. However, it's doing its job a little too well and being run in situations of low target counts, which has led to situations where the set feels too good at a general purpose rather than something more niche like Vicious Death. We're reigning in the damage a bit so it's less effective against small player counts, the radius to better match its visual effects, and the pull to reduce situations of being yo-yoed around.

.. as far as the devs are concerned, Dark Convergence is performing pretty much as intended ... & basically, it’s player error when disrespecting the AoE .. so yeah, getting pulled through doors & walls is now a you problem

That's pretty funny as the AoE I use to proc the set is instant and comes out of nowhere at long range lol.

I stopped using the set when I realized the people I wanted to kill with it didn't die to it so I went back to my old build. I'm sure the people I used it on were incredibly annoyed though because I know I am whenever I get pulled into that thing. Sure I can just Mistform out but the lag coupled with the two CC from the set alone is just too much.

Mrtoobyy

Dojohoda wrote: »

I gave gray host a try this evening and I want to offer a few honest opinions.

• Dark convergence is everywhere. It is the zergs' new toy.
• Dark convergence disrupts gameplay; any kind of flow is destroyed.
• PVP is ruined by Dark Convergence and this is not the game I enjoyed a few weeks ago.
• Dark Convergence needs to be removed entirely.

WORD!
Remove this abomination for all of eternity.

pleximus

You don't have to worry about this set. NW has killed the pvp in ESO and rightfully so.

TheFamousMockingbird

My takeaway from the Dark Convergence debacle.

ZOS proved that they can provide a MAD nuke to PvP because everyone was so upset about Ball group power.
"See what you made us do?"

The "Floor is Lava" theme in the current meta is getting tiresome. Watch streams, DC is EVERYWHERE, ALWAYS, in Cyro and BGs. Seriously, where is spot to roll to?

I think with virus type sets that spread to other players they need to start conservative and then power up as needed. A sole set should never out perform an ultimate ability.

The pull mechanic is an issue because of ground effects that can target with some upward angle, and the centering of the anchor for the pull. ZOS is not going to rework all ground based effects, nor should they because of one badly tested item set.

Jameson18

pleximus wrote: »

You don't have to worry about this set. NW has killed the pvp in ESO and rightfully so.

There will be some truth to this.

Although Console folks are stuck.......

































On their dashboard or loading screens if they're on an Xbox.

(mic drop.)

Giraffon

So I rage quit BG's because of their stupid deathmatch only test. I thought to myself, well, I guess I'll go check out Cyrodiil. I haven't been there in a long time. There was a big fight at one of the chokepoint gates. We had control of the wall itself. I was up on this thing and then dark convergence set yanks me off into a mob of enemies.

So BGs are crap. Cyrodiil is crap. Off to IC I guess.

Jameson18

Giraffon wrote: »

Off to IC I guess.

It is just as bad. Well... when there's people there. It's pretty much just DC sets, werewolves, and nightblade gankers.

Not that I dislike the nightblades and werewolves. Its fun for me to fight gankers in IC and werewolves are mostly free telvar if you have the patience to chase them around for an hour.

However, at least on console, I think realization finally hit that telvar is incredibly easy to farm with DC set.

Jaraal

Giraffon wrote: »

So I rage quit BG's because of their stupid deathmatch only test. I thought to myself, well, I guess I'll go check out Cyrodiil. I haven't been there in a long time. There was a big fight at one of the chokepoint gates. We had control of the wall itself. I was up on this thing and then dark convergence set yanks me off into a mob of enemies.

So BGs are crap. Cyrodiil is crap. Off to IC I guess.

Everybody in IC is using it, too. I was in there for my dailies last night, every single battle I witnessed or was part of had Dark Convergence in it. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like I will start.

9 out of 10 players can't be wrong, right?