dark convergence is ruining cyrodiil

CoronHR

on top of lag and latency issues, this set is making the zone unplayable. i don't get why this set is needed. there's a bomb build, so what's the point? also, you get stuck in keep edges when you're pulled to the wall. and it's just annoying. please nerf the living [snip] out of it, or get rid of it

[edited for profanity bypass]

shimm

Yes. The nerf is incoming (see PTS notes) but I’m confused as to why they nerfed hrothgar with Monday’s patch but not dark convergence. So we’ll literally have several more weeks of this?

CoronHR

it's awful. i just got pulled to the opposite edge of that thin bit of wall that's above the inner keep door. you cannot jump back over it. it's so stupid, the worst set they've ever made

DestroyerPewnack

Dark Convergence is just a set. It has no agency. What you're trying to say is, zos is ruining Cyrodiil. The introduction of Dark Convergence is just one of the many, many ways they've been doing that. I've just about had it with this game, and I'm honestly this close to quitting, for good.

CoronHR

well, yeah, cyrodiil has lots of problems, and the lag is annoying, and when it's laggy, i usually just leave and do something else. but this set, for me, is the worst. so, instead of focusing on fixing the lag, which it's pretty clear by now they can't do, they introduce this annoying, jarring set that is probably making the lag worse. i don't blame you for quitting. i still like pve, but i'm about to quit pvp for a long while

Marillea

I am just unsure why they would introduce more problematic sets, when we can hardly deal with what we have.

I mean, the set itself isn't an issue, but the lag turns it into one. I had only been playing Ravenwatch on PC EU, and made the swap today to a cp campaign because AD is near gone in no-cp.
Luckily did not come across the set more than 3-4 times in a couple of hours, but when I did my main issue was my character attempting to break free 2-3 times with no result, due to the cp passive, so I would end up with no time to actually get out of the aoe.

CoronHR

the set is kind of an issue, because it can pull you into walls. and lag is constantly present

Marillea

CoronHR wrote: »

the set is kind of an issue, because it can pull you into walls. and lag is constantly present

I didn't get to enjoy getting pulled into walls yet, will probably tomorrow as I have more time for ESO.
I've assumed they would have made sure this kind of stuff can't happen, but not surprised I was wrong.

El_Borracho

Seems like a bomber build could have a lot of fun with Dark Convergence

YandereGirlfriend

As an official member of the Ravenwatch Tourism Bureau I welcome you to visit our fine campaign.

The lag is lower and no need to worry about these cheesy sets. It will be a nice vacation for you. And who knows, you might like it so much that you'll decide to stay!

FluffWit

I gotta say lag and DC being a little op asside I'm kinda enjoying the balance in Greyhost NA ps4 this update.

Didn't think I would but I am.

The changes I'd like to see are nerf DCs damage but keep its snare and have Hrothgars splash damage scale of the splashes recipient's resistance not the guy who proc'd its resistance. I don't think it's right for someone with 15k resistance to receive damage that's scaled of someone with 30k resistances stats.

EdmondDontes

Yesterday they nerfed Hrothgar, but buffed Dark Convergence. It's nuts.

Tommy_The_Gun

shimm wrote: »

Yes. The nerf is incoming (see PTS notes) but I’m confused as to why they nerfed hrothgar with Monday’s patch but not dark convergence. So we’ll literally have several more weeks of this?

Tbh. This is maybe a nerf in a very specific scenario, but for the most part it will be the same or even worse. I mean base damage is reduced by 60%, but damage per target bonus went from 10% to 50% . So now this set will probably do even more damage if it pulls 5+ people (which it will very often) and very similar damage if it pulls like 3-4 people.

I don't usually call for nerfs, as I do believe in learning & adapting - But Dark Convergence is something else. I have never ever seen a set that would be this absurdly powerful. Even pre-nerf PTS version of Gaze of Sithis (10K armour) was less OP than that. It feels more like a 300 ulti, rather than a 5 pcs set.

I am sorry to say that, but this nerf is too little. As long as 99% of builds in Cyro are runing this, Cyro gameplay is kinda dead. And yes, people will run this set. Even if this set would gave no damage at all - a lot of people would still run it for the CC Pull that enables way too much than it should.

trackdemon5512

Dark Convergence does it’s job very effectively, if not a bit sloppily. It shuts down these nigh unstoppable ball groups which ruin Cyrodiil play. The majority of complaints are the pills that drag players in constantly because everyone is using it.

Well you’re getting that addressed. 1 pull versus 2. Also initial dmg toned down. But now it’s sucking in an unlimited amount of ppl and has upped the dmg caused by more ppl in the stack. That’s still going to aggravate the majority of Cyrodiil players. Why?

For years y’all have stacked for everything in main Cyrodiil. Open a keep door, everyone storms through. Farm an outpost, spam destros and heals in a ball and just roll over people. Take down a door, have 15 players on a ram waiting to get in. Using the hammer, have an entire server stacked on top of it.

Many of these problems and the deaths from Dark Convergence are entirely your fault for super hard stacking. Dark Convergence loses most of its power when you learn to separate yourselves from each other. When you learn to strategically siege well fortified keeps by opening multiple breaches.

It took one week on PS4 NA to players to learn the rules to stop stacking and Dark Convergence lost its luster to most. The set needs a few adjustments but it’s fine. Just learn to play with it in the field.

Jackey

As long as you can use this set to drag players down from keep walls, down from outposts and through walls, I'll consider it bugged.
I hope this is being fixed with the new patch because right now everybody is abusing it.

Gilvoth

the rest of us love the sets.
they break up zergs and huge groups.
i hope there is no changes to the set, its just awful that they changed it, but looks like they did change it.
its a zerg killer and it does good work in killing zergs, it needs to stay.

trackdemon5512

Gilvoth wrote: »

the rest of us love the sets.
they break up zergs and huge groups.
i hope there is no changes to the set, its just awful that they changed it, but looks like they did change it.
its a zerg killer and it does good work in killing zergs, it needs to stay.

I'm with ya. I love the set and I think the PTS changes aren't a nerf but a step toward making it even better. One pull with 10 ppl is still enough to kill em all when they flood a breach, stack flags, or hump the hammer. I'm gonna have a ball pairing it with Rushing Agony

kargen27

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Dark Convergence does it’s job very effectively, if not a bit sloppily. It shuts down these nigh unstoppable ball groups which ruin Cyrodiil play. The majority of complaints are the pills that drag players in constantly because everyone is using it.

Well you’re getting that addressed. 1 pull versus 2. Also initial dmg toned down. But now it’s sucking in an unlimited amount of ppl and has upped the dmg caused by more ppl in the stack. That’s still going to aggravate the majority of Cyrodiil players. Why?

For years y’all have stacked for everything in main Cyrodiil. Open a keep door, everyone storms through. Farm an outpost, spam destros and heals in a ball and just roll over people. Take down a door, have 15 players on a ram waiting to get in. Using the hammer, have an entire server stacked on top of it.

Many of these problems and the deaths from Dark Convergence are entirely your fault for super hard stacking. Dark Convergence loses most of its power when you learn to separate yourselves from each other. When you learn to strategically siege well fortified keeps by opening multiple breaches.

It took one week on PS4 NA to players to learn the rules to stop stacking and Dark Convergence lost its luster to most. The set needs a few adjustments but it’s fine. Just learn to play with it in the field.

Most that isn't really ball groups but players just trying to take objectives. Ball groups people complain about are the ones that do things like go out the side door circle around all the siege then go back in the other side door and reload. Or they run back and forth from flag to top of tower without really caring about if they flip the flag or not. Ball groups get in a ball and run over players usually trying to get them in a choke spot or in an otherwise tight situation. Ball groups are the ones that run over those that are at the door going in when the ram takes it down.

Cool thing is ball groups now use the set that was suppose to stop them with great efficiency. They have a designated path to run and dark convergence helps bring players into their path.

Also gets messy at keeps when an organized group spams dark convergence in a loop laying one in front of the other followed by stuns and ultimates. Come up against that group and basically the fight comes to a stalemate and that is that. They can time it so that dark convergence is always up and there is always more than one overlapping with nowhere really to go.

I think a longer cool down would be the answer to both these scenarios. I like long battles for a keep but it is silly when you know once you get the door down you will never be able to go in and the people inside know they will never be able to charge out to drive you away. Both sides just keep dark convergence and other goodies up on the door until it's time to call it a night.

RevJJ

As someone who uses Dark Convergence on two different toons… it needs to be nerfed into oblivion. I’m not a great player and this set gives me so many easy kills it’s stupid. It is a carry set and requires barely any skill to make it work.

Add to that the ability to pull through walls, off walls, off sieges, off balconies and ping ponging between different casts of it because the floor is lava… I’m spending less and less time in Cyrodiil. Whoever designed this set must really hate pvp.

SkadiMZ

I hope they nerf it even more. Whatever effectiveness it has against ball groups and zergs is countered by the fact that a zerg using this set is absolutely unbearable. You should have to do more than 2 button presses to kill a large group of people. This set doesn't require skill, it's like bringing a rocket launcher to a fist fight.

kargen27

Kiyakotari wrote: »

[snip]

that is just a temporary distraction.

[edited to remove quote]

CoronHR

ball groups...well i never play in a ball group and i'm suffering as if i were both playing in one and getting run over by one.

if it's meant for ball groups...which i can totally see your point because these groups need some kind of response to their steamrolling nonsense...then maybe it should only work when ten players run through its bomb thing? idk, but i tell you, i cannot stand being pulled every ten seconds, because so many people are using the set that inevitably, you're getting constantly pulled. and then it can pull you into a keep wall, and you can't roll dodge out of it because you're on the other side of this thin lip of the wall, like what's above the inner keep gates.

also, the nerf...it's not gonna make much of a difference, maybe the damage won't be so severe, but there's no cap on the # of players it will pull. i sometimes die from the set, but often times i live because i can roll dodge out of it. but i'm doing this several times during a siege, and it's just annoying, and as i said before, sometimes it pulls you into places where you're stuck. for all this, i'd say it's a bad set and it needs serious nerfing. but if that doesn't happen, maybe players will get sick of using it and toss it, although i'm not hopeful of that

Marcus_Aurelius

Gilvoth wrote: »

the rest of us love the sets.
they break up zergs and huge groups.
i hope there is no changes to the set, its just awful that they changed it, but looks like they did change it.
its a zerg killer and it does good work in killing zergs, it needs to stay.

It's not a zerg killer, It's a gameplay killer. Try some BGs or small scale fights. Dark Convergence is just everywhere.
At this point they should release a set equivalent to a tacnical nuke and call it a day.

trackdemon5512

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the rest of us love the sets.
they break up zergs and huge groups.
i hope there is no changes to the set, its just awful that they changed it, but looks like they did change it.
its a zerg killer and it does good work in killing zergs, it needs to stay.

It's not a zerg killer, It's a gameplay killer. Try some BGs or small scale fights. Dark Convergence is just everywhere.
At this point they should release a set equivalent to a tacnical nuke and call it a day.

Dark Convergence highlights another problem with BGs: y’all stack too much. For years it’s been the group that sticks together wins. That’s not due to strategy but rather overlapping heals and buffs and attacks. Y’all have trained yourselves to roll up en masse on enemies in BGs. And because you have 8 opponents DC becomes a super effective way of managing all that chaos.

Fix the tanky BG ball meta and you see fewer ppl wear DC. And might I add that many non-hardcore players don’t have multiple builds for BGs. Whatever they have on for Cyro is fine due to the costs and low rewards of making gear for BGs and then winning. You’ll easy see it as a pervasive set due to this.

Larcomar

It has fundamentally changed gameplay in cyro. Much more broadly than I suspect zos intended. Cyro's basically now a DC mini game. If you're not running it, well, your funeral. If you're trying to stand on a ram or counter siege, forget it. Fights basically boil down to how many DC sets each side has, who's better at using them and who fire's first. The only counter to DC is DC.

Personally, I'm quite enjoying it - for now. It's actually a fun little little mini game and a change from d swing - d breaker - exec spam. I've ditched my stamden and I'm playing my Mag DK of all things. He's usually pretty hopeless. Last night, popped in quickly. If you ignore a couple of blood ports, I think he got 61 killing blows for 3 deaths. When you get those back to back multi kills, it's kind of... yeah!

But it is a mini game. It is starting to get old. And sooner or later, everyone will be wearing it and the servers just going to turn into two groups lobbing dark convergence at each other. It's already half way there. At that point, I suspect people are just going to stop playing. Or go to no proc. Which, I suspect, is probably zos' game plan. It's a lot easier to manage 20 sets than a few hundred.

edit - the supposed u32 nerf isn't going to do anything. The issue with DC is the way it pulls you in, stuns you and, in lag, desynchs you. As long as you can lob it onto the 3rd floor of a keep and pull all the defenders off siege and down to the courtyard, it doesnt atter how much damage it does.

Marcus_Aurelius

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Dark Convergence highlights another problem with BGs: y’all stack too much. For years it’s been the group that sticks together wins.

So we should all play on our own? You are really suggesting this as a solution to DC?
Group BG should become 1vs1 fights where people keep apart?
I have understand well what you are suggesting?

Tommy_The_Gun

Dark Convergence & Hrothgar made me basically quit PvP. I was hoping that in no cp / no proc situation will get better. And it kinda is as there aren't many bombers there and every aoe on the ground is not a DC proc, but no cp really shows other problems - like huge class imbalance (pretty much only Templars & Sorcs there). Various stats are also being "privileged" (like penetration for example) and others are being punished way too hard (like health recovery). It is kinda impossible to re-create my playstyle in no-proc as a lot of "non-procs" sets still for whatever reason do not work there.

Diablo 2 is comming out soon, so I guess I will keep doing my daily PvE stuff in ESO and in the evenings I will play Diablo instead of ESO PvP.

Mrtoobyy

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

the rest of us love the sets.
they break up zergs and huge groups.
i hope there is no changes to the set, its just awful that they changed it, but looks like they did change it.
its a zerg killer and it does good work in killing zergs, it needs to stay.

It's not a zerg killer, It's a gameplay killer. Try some BGs or small scale fights. Dark Convergence is just everywhere.
At this point they should release a set equivalent to a tacnical nuke and call it a day.

Dark Convergence highlights another problem with BGs: y’all stack too much. For years it’s been the group that sticks together wins. That’s not due to strategy but rather overlapping heals and buffs and attacks. Y’all have trained yourselves to roll up en masse on enemies in BGs. And because you have 8 opponents DC becomes a super effective way of managing all that chaos.

Fix the tanky BG ball meta and you see fewer ppl wear DC. And might I add that many non-hardcore players don’t have multiple builds for BGs. Whatever they have on for Cyro is fine due to the costs and low rewards of making gear for BGs and then winning. You’ll easy see it as a pervasive set due to this.

I get your point. Sometimes it's just as you say. But sometimes it could be that map design probably didnt cater for sets like these. Some places in BG matches have corridors and such wich are like 5 meters and DC had 12 meters range... thus making us yoyo around and through walls. Its not the damage with DC that annonys me but the double hit and pull. So glad they are changing it, hopefully for the better.

GreenhaloX

So.. proc set is back on in Cyro, then? I use it for PvE and fun.. but yeah, as in the true nature of the game, the nerf is expected and nothing of a surprise. It will happen. I just don't gold out set anymore. All sets and skills will always eventually be nerfed.

CoronHR

well, i was really looking forward to getting back into cyrodiil after being gone a while doing other things like collecting stuff etc, but it's a bit ruined now for me. the nerf is coming with q4 drop, which nerfs the dmg but uncaps the player pull count, but the effect radius will shrink, and hopefully they'll fix it so that it stays as a ground-based aoe so that you're not pulled when on a wall. i just wish it were more of a niche set, rather than what half the player population is running. maybe it needs a player debuff added to it

katanagirl1

When I get pulled by Dark Convergence it takes 2 successful dodge rolls to get out of range and avoid being killed.

Oftentimes though I press the keys and nothing happens (just like with skills and bar swaps) and I just stand there and get nuked.