Wrong Event Name - It Should Be "Feed the Gankers!"

GenjiraX

Tel Var are for Hakeijo as far as I’m concerned.

Sephyr

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Some ganker pulled me off the platform in the arena just now.

How? No idea. I can't damage them, but they can damage me and pull me down.

Great event ZOS! I am sure a minimal few are feeling great now.

And those saying "skip the ticket" should quit that advice. It is foolish to have an event someone can't participate in without getting ganked, even on a platform!

The usual culprit is Frozen Gate, but it may be another skill.

The point of being able to be hit up there on the edge of the platform is so you can't sit up there and rain down arrows and cliffracers at players who're running below without them having a fair shot at hitting you back. I, uh, may have taken some cheap shots at a battling zerg, and then gotten my butt knocked off the spawn tower and promptly killed - I totally deserved it. Imagine what a snipe ganker could do if they were perched up there, completely safe from all incoming fire.

Even the ogre mob can do some nasty damage by throwing rocks up on the platform, so it's not completely safe unless you sit in the Silenced area and leech off of other people's kills. You'll get credit for the kills, but it'll take awhile.


Personally, I think it's foolish to say that no events should ever feature PVP, because getting ganked is a normal part of that gameplay in Cyrodiil as well. You don't like that form of gameplay, but that's no reason to exclude PVP from events that celebrate many types of gameplay in ESO.

It isn't the PvP that is the real problem. It is those who thrive on ganking. Thus give an alternative and don't require PvP. But then the gankers wouldn't have as much fun, hence why I said the name should be changed!

See, this is the problem here. @VaranisArano is giving you rather helpful information where you could change certain things about your playstyle to have a quicker solution to your problem. Ganking IS a PvP thing. It's a saturated field, I'll admit that. I see a lot of my kind on the field. But what isn't constructive is throwing us under the bus for doing what's normal in any PvP experience.

I notice that you're also telling vague stories which leads me to doubt your intentions here. How do I know that you're not instigating some of these by trying to attack them? PvEers occasionally do this and I don't care if they wave at me. They're dead due to the first few times of taking advantage of the whole "Don't shoot! I'm a PvEer! 😇" and my kindness. Y'all aren't angels yourselves during this event and I see many of you fire the first shot and then come onto the forum to complain about it when you eat dirt.

I'm starting to believe that this is the case with you because everyone that's tried to help you, you've either thrown under the bus, ignored, barely even used their advice just to say it doesn't work, or completely disregarded. Just like the majority of these threads that pop up every time IC PvP is part of any event.

You can have all the ganking you want as long as I am not pulled to act as a gankee, by hiding strong rewards behind it.

I have no idea what Tel Var is good for myself. I am sure it is for something, but I just let it pile up in my 3-4 years playing, so that is not the rewards I am talking about.

You cannot reasonably expect that people shouldn't engage with you in PvP simply because you don't. This year, it's a PvP event. You sign up for it the moment you enter the zone and from where I'm sitting and how you're behaving in the thread leads me to suspect that you engage first and then come here telling half-truths about your untimely demise. What you use Tel Var for or how long you let it pile up is irrelevant to my point.

My point is, I'm suspicious that you're bringing this onto yourself. You're not taking the advice or criticisms to help your specific issue which would help you if you weren't the first to engage and your Arena story sounds to me like you were antagonizing someone from the wall, got your hand caught in the cookie jar, and are just claiming "They ganked me for no reason." Especially when you're not willing to listen to people who probably do this more a week than you do in a year. The more you scream "Gank!", it's pretty much the boy who cried wolf, hence my dwindling sympathy for your 'situations'.

Asardes

You don't really feed them if you have less than 1-2k TV on you. I've lost 2k or more and I don't care about it, since I can earn them back if I want to.

Franchise408

To further the point that saying you got in and out in 5 minutes is an inaccurate take;

I went into IC last night to do my daily quest. I did the one in Arboretum, where you have to kill Daedroth / Flame Atros and collect the documents. I didn't time myself, because my intention was to go in and play, not to prove a point about anything one way or another, however my experience pretty much solidyfied my point.

It took me somewhere between half hour to 45 minutes to complete 1 single quest. Zergs of EP were swarming the drop down area where you load in from the sewers, so the second you drop down to fight any of the mobs, they are coming from across the zone to zerg and kill you.

"Well then go to an area your faction controls"

Sure. I released and loaded into another zone, controlled by my faction. "I'll just try the quest here then instead"

Grab the quest, drop down from the load in spot, zerged by a horde of DC.

This was my experience last night, releasing into any faction controlled zone I could, but getting killed after every 1 or 2 mobs that I was able to kill. Eventually, every zone was controlled by EP or DC, and there were no faction controlled zones that I was able to log into.

Because I had the time last night, and because I am not 100% anti-PVP (although I am of the general belief that PVP in this game is not very well done or very engaging for anything beyond about 20-30 minutes or so), I went with it, and I just kept banking the few Tel Var I would get that I had left after each death. It took about 45 minutes, but I was able to complete the quest and get my ticket.

When I logged in later in the evening, the population was a little bit lower, so I was able to solo some flags and get a small amount of AP for taking some of the districts on my own.

Again, I am not saying this to play any sort of a victim role. I know that when I log into a PVP zone, that the threat and risk of PVP is there. And while I am not a fan of the PVP in this game, and I am mostly a PVE player, I am of the mind that there absolutely should be PVP rewards and achievements, and PVP events as well. I am not anti-PVP event in even the slightest.

I do question the motivation to funnel everyone into Imperial City for 3 separate events this year for reasons, when nobody really wants to be there in the first place, and I am against this narrative that PVP in IC can simply be avoided and you can get in and out in 5 minutes without even using an offensive skill. That is an inaccurate take on what the Imperial City experience is like, and telling PVE'ers that they just need to do this, that, or the other to get in and out in 5 minutes is not an equivalent to PVP'ers having to partake in PVE content to get event tickets or game rewards. There are so many hoops that PVE'ers have to jump through just to partake, and at least from my perspective, there is a very large difference between getting wrapped up in PVP as a PVE'er in a PVP zone, and getting ganked without any chance of even defending yourself. PVP zone or not, there are behaviors that are frowned upon even in PVP exclusive games. I can go all the way back to my Counter Strike days, where spawn camping or even certain sniping tactics were looked down upon, to the point that there were very specific server rulesets in specific servers. I am also a sports gamer, and in online games like Madden or NBA 2K, there are certain tactics and in game behaviors that are looked down upon because they do not lend themselves to an even or fair PVP experience.

This is the only game that I've seen where certain behaviors are actively defended in the name of "it's PVP!", regardless of how unfair or uneven those behaviors are (i.e. zergs hunting down solo PVE'ers from across the zone, stealth ganking, sewer door / quest NPC ganking, etc.) <---- None of these tactics are done in the name of a fair fight or a competitive encounter. They are done in the name of a cheap thrill at the expense of someone who is incapable of defending themselves. I acknowledge that it is a risk that one takes when stepping into a PVP zone, but that doesn't mean it's an okay experience.

And regardless of where you fall on the "is ganking okay?" debate, the fact is, it's not as simple as "get some detect pots and you can be in and out of IC with your daily ticket in 5 minutes"

Sephyr

Franchise408 wrote: »

This is the only game that I've seen where certain behaviors are actively defended in the name of "it's PVP!", regardless of how unfair or uneven those behaviors are (i.e. zergs hunting down solo PVE'ers from across the zone, stealth ganking, sewer door / quest NPC ganking, etc.)

And this is the only game that I've seen where people not only are stubborn about using the counters and strategy, but also claiming we've said things that we never said. But hey, you do you.

VaranisArano

Franchise408 wrote: »

To further the point that saying you got in and out in 5 minutes is an inaccurate take;

I went into IC last night to do my daily quest. I did the one in Arboretum, where you have to kill Daedroth / Flame Atros and collect the documents. I didn't time myself, because my intention was to go in and play, not to prove a point about anything one way or another, however my experience pretty much solidyfied my point.

It took me somewhere between half hour to 45 minutes to complete 1 single quest. Zergs of EP were swarming the drop down area where you load in from the sewers, so the second you drop down to fight any of the mobs, they are coming from across the zone to zerg and kill you.

"Well then go to an area your faction controls"

Sure. I released and loaded into another zone, controlled by my faction. "I'll just try the quest here then instead"

Grab the quest, drop down from the load in spot, zerged by a horde of DC.

This was my experience last night, releasing into any faction controlled zone I could, but getting killed after every 1 or 2 mobs that I was able to kill. Eventually, every zone was controlled by EP or DC, and there were no faction controlled zones that I was able to log into.

Because I had the time last night, and because I am not 100% anti-PVP (although I am of the general belief that PVP in this game is not very well done or very engaging for anything beyond about 20-30 minutes or so), I went with it, and I just kept banking the few Tel Var I would get that I had left after each death. It took about 45 minutes, but I was able to complete the quest and get my ticket.

When I logged in later in the evening, the population was a little bit lower, so I was able to solo some flags and get a small amount of AP for taking some of the districts on my own.

Again, I am not saying this to play any sort of a victim role. I know that when I log into a PVP zone, that the threat and risk of PVP is there. And while I am not a fan of the PVP in this game, and I am mostly a PVE player, I am of the mind that there absolutely should be PVP rewards and achievements, and PVP events as well. I am not anti-PVP event in even the slightest.

I do question the motivation to funnel everyone into Imperial City for 3 separate events this year for reasons, when nobody really wants to be there in the first place, and I am against this narrative that PVP in IC can simply be avoided and you can get in and out in 5 minutes without even using an offensive skill. That is an inaccurate take on what the Imperial City experience is like, and telling PVE'ers that they just need to do this, that, or the other to get in and out in 5 minutes is not an equivalent to PVP'ers having to partake in PVE content to get event tickets or game rewards. There are so many hoops that PVE'ers have to jump through just to partake, and at least from my perspective, there is a very large difference between getting wrapped up in PVP as a PVE'er in a PVP zone, and getting ganked without any chance of even defending yourself. PVP zone or not, there are behaviors that are frowned upon even in PVP exclusive games. I can go all the way back to my Counter Strike days, where spawn camping or even certain sniping tactics were looked down upon, to the point that there were very specific server rulesets in specific servers. I am also a sports gamer, and in online games like Madden or NBA 2K, there are certain tactics and in game behaviors that are looked down upon because they do not lend themselves to an even or fair PVP experience.

This is the only game that I've seen where certain behaviors are actively defended in the name of "it's PVP!", regardless of how unfair or uneven those behaviors are (i.e. zergs hunting down solo PVE'ers from across the zone, stealth ganking, sewer door / quest NPC ganking, etc.) <---- None of these tactics are done in the name of a fair fight or a competitive encounter. They are done in the name of a cheap thrill at the expense of someone who is incapable of defending themselves. I acknowledge that it is a risk that one takes when stepping into a PVP zone, but that doesn't mean it's an okay experience.

And regardless of where you fall on the "is ganking okay?" debate, the fact is, it's not as simple as "get some detect pots and you can be in and out of IC with your daily ticket in 5 minutes"

It's inaccurate to suggest that every single player will get in and out of Imperial City in 5 minutes with no fighting, every single time. I don't believe that was what was being said, though.

It's not inaccurate that some players will have that experience. I have had that experience, some of the time. I've also have a number of times where I say "I guess that district isn't happening today, I'll try a different area for a while."

Just because it didn't happen to you, this time, doesn't mean that those of us who have at that experience at times are lying. Nor does it mean that PVEers who struggle are somehow "doing it wrong" because they met with a lot of enemy players - Imperial City is a PvPvE zone and we should always be prepared to meet a bunch of enemy players. There are ways to avoid PVP as much as possible, but no way to guarantee safety in a PvPvE zone once you leave the silenced, safe spots. Each year, I try to write a guide that covers exactly that.


Finally, as for why people are defending stealth ganking, large groups in IC, bombing, etc. It's because it's allowed, intended, and designed for gameplay in PVP zones. You may not like that part of PVP, but that's really irrelevant - not everyone likes PVP but it's still absolutely a valid part of ESO and worthy of celebration during events.

I get pretty annoyed when players who only come to Cyrodiil/Imperial City for event rewards want to impose "codes of honor" on PVPers about how/when/where they can kill players in a PVP-enabled zones. That's not how this works. Events don't change what is allowed, intended, and designed for gameplay in a PvPvE zone. I hope it's merely inexperience, but seriously that's not how it works even when events aren't going on.

And I get pretty annoyed when PvPers go around trying to impose their code of honor on other PVPers too. Your code is not my code. My guild group will let single players go by unless they attack others, but that doesn't mean we can tell everyone else what to do. They'd laugh at us for trying to dictate "our rules" and rightly so. That's not even mentioning the segment of players for whom one might say "The only "fair fight" is the one they win."

You can't walk into a PvPvE zone and dictate when/where/how other players fight and kill you. The only people who can dictate that is ZOS, and the Devs designed Imperial City to encourage those behaviors. It's intended and allowed gameplay.

Folkb

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

VaranisArano

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

PvPvE works just fine when you prepare for the PVP portion.

I'd be really curious to see how PVE would have to be redesigned to cope with being able to transition seamlessly to PVP.

If it were just the stats and the gear, then ZOS could offer us "builds" or something where we could easily and cheaply swap back and forth.

But it's not just the stats. If you want to jump into Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil PVP, it quickly becomes apparent that it's a whole different set of tactics. One of the basic things that PVEers miss is that you have to proactively defend, buff, and heal yourself, preferably before you get into combat, because a smart opponent is not going to let you recover with an "Oh shoot" heal once they have you in execute range. One thing I had to learn as a MagDK was that I couldn't take my Stamina for granted - I don't have much more of it than a PVE build would, but I'm always watching to make sure I don't run low because I have to be able to dodge roll or break free instantly. If I can't, I'm dead.

Those are just two examples. My experience with the godly pre-Morrowind Blazeplar was that I can slap on the meta PVP gear and get all my stats in order with all the right skills, but until I learn the tactics for using that gear against a real live intelligent player, I'm going to get my butt handed to me again and again.

I don't know how to take that experience of fighting a real live intelligent player in PVE so that players can transition seamlessly without seriously changing how PVE works.

And I'm not sure that the PVE community would really appreciate having "their" preferred gameplay drastically altered in order to seamlessly transition them to content that plenty of them have no interest in doing except when there are event rewards.


That being said, good luck with your dedicated PVP toon!

Sephyr

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Well, someone has to make them feel important. If they can't get self-value from zerg-ganking someone in the back that isn't built for pvp while they're focused on completing a quest, where are they gonna get it from?

Franchise408

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

Folkb

VaranisArano wrote: »

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

PvPvE works just fine when you prepare for the PVP portion.

I'd be really curious to see how PVE would have to be redesigned to cope with being able to transition seamlessly to PVP.

If it were just the stats and the gear, then ZOS could offer us "builds" or something where we could easily and cheaply swap back and forth.

But it's not just the stats. If you want to jump into Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil PVP, it quickly becomes apparent that it's a whole different set of tactics. One of the basic things that PVEers miss is that you have to proactively defend, buff, and heal yourself, preferably before you get into combat, because a smart opponent is not going to let you recover with an "Oh shoot" heal once they have you in execute range. One thing I had to learn as a MagDK was that I couldn't take my Stamina for granted - I don't have much more of it than a PVE build would, but I'm always watching to make sure I don't run low because I have to be able to dodge roll or break free instantly. If I can't, I'm dead.

Those are just two examples. My experience with the godly pre-Morrowind Blazeplar was that I can slap on the meta PVP gear and get all my stats in order with all the right skills, but until I learn the tactics for using that gear against a real live intelligent player, I'm going to get my butt handed to me again and again.

I don't know how to take that experience of fighting a real live intelligent player in PVE so that players can transition seamlessly without seriously changing how PVE works.

And I'm not sure that the PVE community would really appreciate having "their" preferred gameplay drastically altered in order to seamlessly transition them to content that plenty of them have no interest in doing except when there are event rewards.


That being said, good luck with your dedicated PVP toon!

A lot would need to change stat wise in order for that to work. Probably too much for ZOS to even want to tackle and there will be a lot of backlash from both sides.

One bandaid fix I can think of is to allow each character a second pvp slot thats activated once a player goes to IC or cyrodiil. That lets you redistribute your attributes, skills/morphs and champion points.

kargen27

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

The same could be said about really anything in the game. I use different gear for dungeons, overland and trials. For one character I have three healing set-ups and two DPS set-ups I use depending on my role and the make-up of the group. That same character has three builds for PvP.
For normal trials I don't worry to much about changing builds, won't adjust CP and things like that. About any healing set is going to work for normal. Same with PvP. If I am running around hunting Telvar or doing dailies I don't worry about going into full PvP mode. Usually do not need to. If I plan on sticking around and joining in on the killing and dying then I switch out.

You are not going to be good at 1vX in PvE gear but that doesn't mean you will completely fail in PvP land wearing PvE gear. You do have to change your strategy some. NPC enemies tend to be repetitive and predictable. Player enemies may not be. That is actually the fun of PvP.

All that aside to complete the daily requirements for this event very little if any real PvP is needed.

Folkb

kargen27 wrote: »

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

The same could be said about really anything in the game. I use different gear for dungeons, overland and trials. For one character I have three healing set-ups and two DPS set-ups I use depending on my role and the make-up of the group. That same character has three builds for PvP.
For normal trials I don't worry to much about changing builds, won't adjust CP and things like that. About any healing set is going to work for normal. Same with PvP. If I am running around hunting Telvar or doing dailies I don't worry about going into full PvP mode. Usually do not need to. If I plan on sticking around and joining in on the killing and dying then I switch out.

You are not going to be good at 1vX in PvE gear but that doesn't mean you will completely fail in PvP land wearing PvE gear. You do have to change your strategy some. NPC enemies tend to be repetitive and predictable. Player enemies may not be. That is actually the fun of PvP.

All that aside to complete the daily requirements for this event very little if any real PvP is needed.

I dont do trials but I have the same set for everything pve wise. Arenas, dungeons and overland. If I remember I might change a couple of pieces while doing a vet daily just to remove my pale order ring. But most of the time you don't really need to bother with that. Pvp is a whole other monster. Although im sure you can get away with just piling up in a zerg.

VaranisArano

Franchise408 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

Did you share your story about your time in IC to say "this is the norm?" Or did you share it to say "IC isn't always as easy as people say?"

I'm going to assume you intended the latter. Because most of the time when people say "I had an easy time with my daily" it's to say "IC isn't always as hard as people say." They aren't saying "this is how it always is for everyone", though it may be true that it's normal for them.

I feel like there's a lot more room for nuance here than you are giving it.

Your normal experience in IC is not necessarily going to be mine. I've had easy dailies and hard dailies, but I would say that "normal" for me on a non-sneak PVE build means rushing the Arena, Elven Gardens, or Nobles District Daily, dying most times when I meet another player, rezzing up and completing at least one more stage of the quest, and getting one of them done in fairly short order.

Am I saying that's normal for everyone? Nope. It's normal for me, and judging by others who post, it's not out of the normal range of experiences in Imperial City. So I will argue against people who act as though the Dailies are so hard that no one should ever be expected to do them during an event celebrating the zone or that because the dailies are so hard for them, that ZOS should never require Imperial City for any event. (ZOS should've included the tickets for WGT/ICP in this event, but that's because the dungeons are Imperial City DLC content, not because I think the dailies are terribly hard. In fact, in past events, a number of PVEers went to IC for the faster tickets and still complained about PVP happening in a PVP zone, even though they had the option to do the dungeons.)

Indeed, your mileage may vary. It's good for both PVEers and PVPers to keep that in mind.


And I was specifically addressing your criticism of certain playstyles, which as far as I can tell had nothing to do with ZOS requiring the IC dailies for event tickets 3 times this year, and everything to do with judging valid tactics you feel are unfair, uneven, and done for cheap thrills.

cheeseaddict

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

VaranisArano

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

Uh, you don't need to do the Event quest in order to participate and earn tickets for the event.

Sanctum74

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

No, you choose to go there because you want the completely optional rewards that really have no impact on the game. If you want the rewards then you play the content.

SeaGtGruff

I know my experiences aren't going to be typical, but I managed to do all 6 IC district dailies, followed by 2 Craglorn dailies, on 2 servers, within less than 2 hours-- i.e., under 1 hour on each server.

On PC EU it took about 35 or 40 minutes to do the 6 IC dailies, and that included queuing back and forth between Cyrodiil and IC, plus turning in each quest and banking any TV I'd picked up-- but not opening rewards, since I was rushing to finish before the servers went down for maintenance.

It took about the same amount of time on PC NA, but PC NA was the absolutely the worst of the two because, even though I'd chosen the campaign with the highest population of DC (which is my alliance), the districts were overrun with heavy-hitting AD players who I suspect had chosen that campaign BECAUSE the AD and EP populations were low and the DC population was high-- that is, I think they were hoping to farm DC players.

I suspect there were probably similar situations in all 3 campaigns-- DC and EP looking to farm AD in the campaign where AD had the greatest population, AD and EP looking to farm DC in the campaign where DC had the greatest population, and AD and DC looking to farm EP in the campaign where EP had the greatest population.

Anyway, the worst district for me was the Arena District on PC NA, which was controlled by DC but overrun with several AD who were mopping the streets with the DC players. They never made any attempts to flip the flag, which meant I was able to resurrect over and over in the same district and jump back down to get killed again and again-- which I'm sure is exactly what they wanted. And I was happy to oblige, because I was determined to complete that daily so I could move on to the next one. Despite getting killed at least half a dozen times within the space of a few minutes, I still managed to rescue 12 citizens and turn in the quest within 5 or 10 minutes, mostly because I would jump down and rush to where I saw citizens to free even though I would get killed doing it. I also got lucky because a boss appeared and they went after him, so I was able to jump down from the other side of the platform and free 2 citizens, then ride my mount to the other side of the district and rescue several more to complete the quest. But the AD players were doing their best to grief the DC players.

And that's just the nature of PvP, especially in IC. I can sympathize with PvErs who find it frustrating and upsetting to try to get a PvE quest done while a few heavy-hitting enemy PvPers are griefing everyone else, but you just have to keep at it and try to not let it get to you. I know that can be really difficult to do, but it's honestly the best advice I can offer.

Sephyr

Franchise408 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

To continue even further what Varanis had to say;

The Imperial City is visited three times a year. Two of them are PvP-centric events, this event used to have a PvE alternative. It's a PvP zone. The two main ones are celebrations of PvP, yet dueling isn't included in that. It came in One Tamriel, where's it's event?

You're listing off events that are all PvE events that have no PvP alternative. You're listing events that have irrelevance to the point.

That point is that this is now a PvP event this year. It may change next year, it might not. I'm willing to bet that it's going to be the latter.

You harshly criticizing playstyles you don't like holds no relevance other than the fact you simply don't like it. People are vocal against people who use sets. People are vocal against people who use CP. People are vocal against people who hate zergs, ball groups, siege encounters. On the other side of the fence, PvPers hate to grind the same dungeon hundreds of times just to get a certain set, some even grinding for months to the point they quit the game. A lot of people hate Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood because it's stealth DLC that didn't work.

None of us are telling you to get over it. Some of us are legitimately trying to help people like you and you simply refuse to take the help because it's either about pride or because you hate the playstyle so much that you refuse to listen to even a person who's got experience in the playstyle and tells you exactly what kills them because you hate us that much (hubris).

You're the one that's immediately jumping down without checking your environment. You're the one that's treating real players like mobs with the same expectations that we'll have the same mechanics, when they're something entirely different. When are people going to learn that you just can't do that? Probably never if I had to judge the hubris of a person every time they said they hated the playstyle and refused to listen to what's being said when it very well may help ease your 'painful experience'.

But now I'm wondering why should I help those who clearly just won't listen because they simply hate the playstyle. It doesn't do me much good other than subject myself to hours of bitterness towards another event being added to PvP bringing their up to three. Out of the actual participation events this year there's been three events that have had PvP in them. The other six had no PvP alternatives. We're not going to act like this is a contest to who has more because it's obvious who has more.

Franchise408

VaranisArano wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

Did you share your story about your time in IC to say "this is the norm?" Or did you share it to say "IC isn't always as easy as people say?"

I'm going to assume you intended the latter. Because most of the time when people say "I had an easy time with my daily" it's to say "IC isn't always as hard as people say." They aren't saying "this is how it always is for everyone", though it may be true that it's normal for them.

I feel like there's a lot more room for nuance here than you are giving it.

Your normal experience in IC is not necessarily going to be mine. I've had easy dailies and hard dailies, but I would say that "normal" for me on a non-sneak PVE build means rushing the Arena, Elven Gardens, or Nobles District Daily, dying most times when I meet another player, rezzing up and completing at least one more stage of the quest, and getting one of them done in fairly short order.

Am I saying that's normal for everyone? Nope. It's normal for me, and judging by others who post, it's not out of the normal range of experiences in Imperial City. So I will argue against people who act as though the Dailies are so hard that no one should ever be expected to do them during an event celebrating the zone or that because the dailies are so hard for them, that ZOS should never require Imperial City for any event. (ZOS should've included the tickets for WGT/ICP in this event, but that's because the dungeons are Imperial City DLC content, not because I think the dailies are terribly hard. In fact, in past events, a number of PVEers went to IC for the faster tickets and still complained about PVP happening in a PVP zone, even though they had the option to do the dungeons.)

Indeed, your mileage may vary. It's good for both PVEers and PVPers to keep that in mind.


And I was specifically addressing your criticism of certain playstyles, which as far as I can tell had nothing to do with ZOS requiring the IC dailies for event tickets 3 times this year, and everything to do with judging valid tactics you feel are unfair, uneven, and done for cheap thrills.

I shared my story because, the post I was quoting, from page 4 of this thread, used the word "majority" to describe his 5 minute experience, which was done during off-peak hours, so I found it to be an inaccurate response to the other person's complaint which, while exaggerated (comparing IC to forcing someone to do vSS for event tickets), was making the point that "forced" PVE and "forced" PVP are not equal, and "forcing" PVE'ers to do PVP is far more detrimental on the PVE'er than "forcing" PVP'ers to do PVE is on the PVP'er.

I don't think that an account of an experience during off-peak hours is a reflection of the "majority" of IC encounters.

I agree with you that there is nuance and a nature of "your mileage may vary" in regards to PVP, and that's why I think that using an off-peak hours experience to discount the experiences of players and their very valid complaints does not make an effective counter-point.

You absolutely have the right to speak out against my arguments against certain playstyles, and I also have the right to speak out about specific playstyles. I don't think that ganking / PVE hunting / NPC turn in & door camping is in the spirit of competition or good sportsmanship.

I am a heavy PVP'er in video games. I play a lot of 1st person shooters, I (used to) run a Madden league with a full group of 32 guys, each NFL team controlled by a human opponent, I play other sports games like NBA 2K and MLB The Show, and one of my all time favorite MMO's was a PVP centric MMO in Warhammer Online. In every single one of those games, there are behaviors and tactics that are "allowed" by the developers, but despite being "allowed", are very frowned upon in the communities in the game of good sportsmanship and competitive spirit. You can do it, and there's nothing the devs can or will do about it, because it's not an exploit or anything like that, but leagues are probably going to kick you, servers (1st person shooters) will probably boot you, and you're going to get a lot of push back within the community.

I am by no means saying that gankers should be kicked or booted from the game. But I will say, that between this thread and the other PVP thread, there are a lot of PVP'ers talking about needing a healthy population of people for PVP to survive and thrive, but so often, those people who need to be "converted" so to speak, are met with behaviors and tactics that are detrimental to bringing new people into the PVP population. I can tell you right now that gankers and the like are a huge reason why I stay out of IC and Cyrodiil for the most part (tho not the only reason, I just don't think that PVP in this game is very well designed from the get go).

I do 100% agree with you that Imperial City should absolutely have events tied to it, and there is a yearly one in Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates PVP of all types. But we aren't talking about an event that celebrates IC or PVP, we are talking about 3 different events over the course of the year that funnels people into this one zone to partake in content that people don't want to partake in. As I stated earlier: Elsweyr didn't get 3 events. Summerset didn't get 3 events. Undaunted didn't get 3 events. Craglorn & Wrothgar aren't getting 3 events. Even Cyrodiil isn't getting 3 events. Just Imperial City.

You brought up a valid point in the other thread, that people's aversion to Imperial City is ironically profitable for ZOS, so the motivation to do it is there. It's a valid point, but a different argument.

At the end of the day, while you mentioned nuance, my view of "forced" PVP is also nuanced. I am currently speaking out in favor of PVE'ers who are frustrated with having to go into IC over and over and over and over again and endure the ganking tactics that run rampant in that zone, but in all honesty I am in favor of a certain amount of "forced" PVP.

PVP is a legitimate and significant style of play in this game, and 98% of this game already belongs to PVE, so I am against PVE instances of Cyrodiil or Imperial City. I am in agreement with certain rewards and achievements being locked behind PVP, and I am in 100% agreement with events throughout the year going through Cyrodiil or Imperial City content. They absolutely should not be ignored.

But I also agree with those people who feel that 3 events is a bit much, and I also agree with those people who vent their frustrations at just trying to get in and out and get their tickets but have to deal with stealth gankers purposefully seeking out and hunting PVE'ers who are defenseless and can't fight back.

I never have any problem with running through the streets of Imperial City, running into someone and getting killed, outside of the frustration of losing and dying. I'm in a PVP zone, it was a fair fight, and I wasn't the better player. That maintains the competitive spirit and good sportsmanship to me.

I do have a problem with attacking NPC's, or activating a door, and having someone come out of stealth, burst me down, and then stealth and run off when they don't kill me, not allowing any form of defense against them. That's not PVP, that's legitimized griefing. There's no competitive spirit or good sportsmanship to be had there.

And on that, I don't think you and I are ever going to agree. You see it as a valid tactic, I see it as accepted griefing. We are too fundamentally far apart to find a common ground on that subject.

VaranisArano

Franchise408 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

Did you share your story about your time in IC to say "this is the norm?" Or did you share it to say "IC isn't always as easy as people say?"

I'm going to assume you intended the latter. Because most of the time when people say "I had an easy time with my daily" it's to say "IC isn't always as hard as people say." They aren't saying "this is how it always is for everyone", though it may be true that it's normal for them.

I feel like there's a lot more room for nuance here than you are giving it.

Your normal experience in IC is not necessarily going to be mine. I've had easy dailies and hard dailies, but I would say that "normal" for me on a non-sneak PVE build means rushing the Arena, Elven Gardens, or Nobles District Daily, dying most times when I meet another player, rezzing up and completing at least one more stage of the quest, and getting one of them done in fairly short order.

Am I saying that's normal for everyone? Nope. It's normal for me, and judging by others who post, it's not out of the normal range of experiences in Imperial City. So I will argue against people who act as though the Dailies are so hard that no one should ever be expected to do them during an event celebrating the zone or that because the dailies are so hard for them, that ZOS should never require Imperial City for any event. (ZOS should've included the tickets for WGT/ICP in this event, but that's because the dungeons are Imperial City DLC content, not because I think the dailies are terribly hard. In fact, in past events, a number of PVEers went to IC for the faster tickets and still complained about PVP happening in a PVP zone, even though they had the option to do the dungeons.)

Indeed, your mileage may vary. It's good for both PVEers and PVPers to keep that in mind.


And I was specifically addressing your criticism of certain playstyles, which as far as I can tell had nothing to do with ZOS requiring the IC dailies for event tickets 3 times this year, and everything to do with judging valid tactics you feel are unfair, uneven, and done for cheap thrills.

I shared my story because, the post I was quoting, from page 4 of this thread, used the word "majority" to describe his 5 minute experience, which was done during off-peak hours, so I found it to be an inaccurate response to the other person's complaint which, while exaggerated (comparing IC to forcing someone to do vSS for event tickets), was making the point that "forced" PVE and "forced" PVP are not equal, and "forcing" PVE'ers to do PVP is far more detrimental on the PVE'er than "forcing" PVP'ers to do PVE is on the PVP'er.

I don't think that an account of an experience during off-peak hours is a reflection of the "majority" of IC encounters.

I agree with you that there is nuance and a nature of "your mileage may vary" in regards to PVP, and that's why I think that using an off-peak hours experience to discount the experiences of players and their very valid complaints does not make an effective counter-point.

You absolutely have the right to speak out against my arguments against certain playstyles, and I also have the right to speak out about specific playstyles. I don't think that ganking / PVE hunting / NPC turn in & door camping is in the spirit of competition or good sportsmanship.

I am a heavy PVP'er in video games. I play a lot of 1st person shooters, I (used to) run a Madden league with a full group of 32 guys, each NFL team controlled by a human opponent, I play other sports games like NBA 2K and MLB The Show, and one of my all time favorite MMO's was a PVP centric MMO in Warhammer Online. In every single one of those games, there are behaviors and tactics that are "allowed" by the developers, but despite being "allowed", are very frowned upon in the communities in the game of good sportsmanship and competitive spirit. You can do it, and there's nothing the devs can or will do about it, because it's not an exploit or anything like that, but leagues are probably going to kick you, servers (1st person shooters) will probably boot you, and you're going to get a lot of push back within the community.

I am by no means saying that gankers should be kicked or booted from the game. But I will say, that between this thread and the other PVP thread, there are a lot of PVP'ers talking about needing a healthy population of people for PVP to survive and thrive, but so often, those people who need to be "converted" so to speak, are met with behaviors and tactics that are detrimental to bringing new people into the PVP population. I can tell you right now that gankers and the like are a huge reason why I stay out of IC and Cyrodiil for the most part (tho not the only reason, I just don't think that PVP in this game is very well designed from the get go).

I do 100% agree with you that Imperial City should absolutely have events tied to it, and there is a yearly one in Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates PVP of all types. But we aren't talking about an event that celebrates IC or PVP, we are talking about 3 different events over the course of the year that funnels people into this one zone to partake in content that people don't want to partake in. As I stated earlier: Elsweyr didn't get 3 events. Summerset didn't get 3 events. Undaunted didn't get 3 events. Craglorn & Wrothgar aren't getting 3 events. Even Cyrodiil isn't getting 3 events. Just Imperial City.

You brought up a valid point in the other thread, that people's aversion to Imperial City is ironically profitable for ZOS, so the motivation to do it is there. It's a valid point, but a different argument.

At the end of the day, while you mentioned nuance, my view of "forced" PVP is also nuanced. I am currently speaking out in favor of PVE'ers who are frustrated with having to go into IC over and over and over and over again and endure the ganking tactics that run rampant in that zone, but in all honesty I am in favor of a certain amount of "forced" PVP.

PVP is a legitimate and significant style of play in this game, and 98% of this game already belongs to PVE, so I am against PVE instances of Cyrodiil or Imperial City. I am in agreement with certain rewards and achievements being locked behind PVP, and I am in 100% agreement with events throughout the year going through Cyrodiil or Imperial City content. They absolutely should not be ignored.

But I also agree with those people who feel that 3 events is a bit much, and I also agree with those people who vent their frustrations at just trying to get in and out and get their tickets but have to deal with stealth gankers purposefully seeking out and hunting PVE'ers who are defenseless and can't fight back.

I never have any problem with running through the streets of Imperial City, running into someone and getting killed, outside of the frustration of losing and dying. I'm in a PVP zone, it was a fair fight, and I wasn't the better player. That maintains the competitive spirit and good sportsmanship to me.

I do have a problem with attacking NPC's, or activating a door, and having someone come out of stealth, burst me down, and then stealth and run off when they don't kill me, not allowing any form of defense against them. That's not PVP, that's legitimized griefing. There's no competitive spirit or good sportsmanship to be had there.

And on that, I don't think you and I are ever going to agree. You see it as a valid tactic, I see it as accepted griefing. We are too fundamentally far apart to find a common ground on that subject.

Fair enough on the parts where our views are too far apart.

Though when you say: "I do 100% agree with you that Imperial City should absolutely have events tied to it, and there is a yearly one in Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates PVP of all types. But we aren't talking about an event that celebrates IC or PVP, we are talking about 3 different events over the course of the year that funnels people into this one zone to partake in content that people don't want to partake in."

So I'm confused.

When we talk about 3 different events funneling people to Imperial City this year, we are in fact talking about the 2 Midyear Mayhems and the Year One Celebration which naturally includes the Imperial City DLC as one of the DLC released in year one. (Remember that Midyear Mayhem/Whitestrake's Mayhem is bi-annual now.)

So are you supportive of events featuring Imperial City, and supportive of Midyear Mayhem requiring Inperial City? Or is three events just too much, in your opinion?

SeaGtGruff

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

Just to add to what Varanis said, you DO NOT need to kill a boss in IC unless you want to complete the special event quest, "Sand, Snow, and Blood," and you DO NOT need to complete that quest to earn an event ticket. That quest will reward you with (IIRC) a little gold and/or XP, plus a purple event coffer, but not an event ticket. And you can do the event zone dailies to earn event tickets WITHOUT needing to do the special event quest first.

However, to anyone interested in killing an IC boss so they can complete the event intro quest, I'd recommend the boss that's closest to your alliance home base, as someone else has already recommended in another post.

Sephyr

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

Just to add to what Varanis said, you DO NOT need to kill a boss in IC unless you want to complete the special event quest, "Sand, Snow, and Blood," and you DO NOT need to complete that quest to earn an event ticket. That quest will reward you with (IIRC) a little gold and/or XP, plus a purple event coffer, but not an event ticket. And you can do the event zone dailies to earn event tickets WITHOUT needing to do the special event quest first.

However, to anyone interested in killing an IC boss so they can complete the event intro quest, I'd recommend the boss that's closest to your alliance home base, as someone else has already recommended in another post.

I will say, it might be advisable to try kill some of the IC bosses with some of the groups running around since they do drop monster sets now. You can always go back for the loot when you die. I'm not sure if it'd help PvE builds, but y'never know. Definitely not mandatory unless it's the intro quest.

SeaGtGruff

Sephyr wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

Just to add to what Varanis said, you DO NOT need to kill a boss in IC unless you want to complete the special event quest, "Sand, Snow, and Blood," and you DO NOT need to complete that quest to earn an event ticket. That quest will reward you with (IIRC) a little gold and/or XP, plus a purple event coffer, but not an event ticket. And you can do the event zone dailies to earn event tickets WITHOUT needing to do the special event quest first.

However, to anyone interested in killing an IC boss so they can complete the event intro quest, I'd recommend the boss that's closest to your alliance home base, as someone else has already recommended in another post.

I will say, it might be advisable to try kill some of the IC bosses with some of the groups running around since they do drop monster sets now. You can always go back for the loot when you die. I'm not sure if it'd help PvE builds, but y'never know. Definitely not mandatory unless it's the intro quest.

Yes, good point-- I've gotten a monster set item (a helm, I think?) as well as a lead to a mythic fragment by joining in a couple of IC district boss kills.

Franchise408

VaranisArano wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

To add more what Varanis is saying;

PvP is an unstable, ever-changing dynamic. It's constantly evolving in strategy, build combinations, battle plans, and extreme coordination with comm'ed groups. No one is guaranteed the same time, no one is guaranteed the same expectation, no one is guaranteed the same experience. We can say "Hey, I've had similar", but in no way shape or form did we state that any of this is going to be the norm.

Before I drop down, I check all around the spawn I'm at and stealth away from the edges. THEN I drop down, pop my stealth detect pot, and keep my head down as I do my objectives. Most of the time, I don't have an issue. Like Varanis, I do sometimes also stumble onto problems. I never said I didn't. None of us did. I've had people run stealth counters and put me in a box. I've had people accidentally steer the Clannfear boss toward me and then I was dead unintentionally (though really he was just happy to see me).

PvP is unpredictable. Mileage will vary. But with quick wit and clever strategies in place, both of those can push you further toward success. No one said it would guarantee it.

We're humans. We're not AI. We don't play by any one else's rules but what the gamemasters say we're allowed to do. That's not to say people won't exploit, they have in the past and they will in the future.

But stealth mechanics, killing you while you're interacting with something? All of those along with large coordinated groups? Even Stealth Detection pots are legal. They're not 'cheats' or 'I win' buttons. They're all legal according to the grand scheme of the game.

If they didn't intend for any of what's been going on, they'd have solved this by putting protections in place when they were designing these things because they sure as heck wouldn't leave these glaring 'issues' open if they weren't intended since 2014. Remember, people were doing this before the IC was a thing. The Nirnroot Wine quest. Cyrodiil delves. Skyshards. Lorebooks. They were just as dangerous as quests in the Imperial City is during an event. If they didn't fix it then, they're not going to fix it now. They've seen your reports, your threads, and your tweets. If it wasn't intended, they'd come out and say it's not. And they haven't for eight years. That's some perspective there.

If the intention wasn't to say "this is the norm", then what is even the point of responding to people's (valid) complaints about IC behavior with reports of how you got in and out with your event tickets in 5 minutes? If the expectation is that "your mileage may vary", then the whole point of "I got my IC daily done in 5 minutes without ever even using an offensive skill" is invalidated in the first place.

And you can talk about the fact that certain PVP tactics / behaviors are valid, but the criticism is about the fact that 3 times over this past year, ZOS has seen fit to "force" unwilling players into these conditions to receive their event rewards.

Elsweyr hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Summerset hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Wrothgar and Craglorn haven't gotten 3 events this year.

Undaunted hasn't gotten 3 events this year.

Imperial City is the only zone that's been required for 3 different events this year in order to receive event tickets. Imperial City is also the zone that generates the greatest amount of complaints from the community based on the nature of the gameplay and behaviors of the city.

Is ganking / NPC & door camping / zergs hunting lone PVE'ers all "allowed"? Sure, its a PVP zone.

But it's a playstyle / experience / behavior that many, many people vocally dislike, and it is a playstyle / experience / behavior that people are being funneled into moreso than any of these others, into an area that's all but empty and dead outside of these people being funneled into it, for all the same reasons that people are complaining about during the events, so I think that their vocalized displeasure is very valid and very warranted.

Did you share your story about your time in IC to say "this is the norm?" Or did you share it to say "IC isn't always as easy as people say?"

I'm going to assume you intended the latter. Because most of the time when people say "I had an easy time with my daily" it's to say "IC isn't always as hard as people say." They aren't saying "this is how it always is for everyone", though it may be true that it's normal for them.

I feel like there's a lot more room for nuance here than you are giving it.

Your normal experience in IC is not necessarily going to be mine. I've had easy dailies and hard dailies, but I would say that "normal" for me on a non-sneak PVE build means rushing the Arena, Elven Gardens, or Nobles District Daily, dying most times when I meet another player, rezzing up and completing at least one more stage of the quest, and getting one of them done in fairly short order.

Am I saying that's normal for everyone? Nope. It's normal for me, and judging by others who post, it's not out of the normal range of experiences in Imperial City. So I will argue against people who act as though the Dailies are so hard that no one should ever be expected to do them during an event celebrating the zone or that because the dailies are so hard for them, that ZOS should never require Imperial City for any event. (ZOS should've included the tickets for WGT/ICP in this event, but that's because the dungeons are Imperial City DLC content, not because I think the dailies are terribly hard. In fact, in past events, a number of PVEers went to IC for the faster tickets and still complained about PVP happening in a PVP zone, even though they had the option to do the dungeons.)

Indeed, your mileage may vary. It's good for both PVEers and PVPers to keep that in mind.


And I was specifically addressing your criticism of certain playstyles, which as far as I can tell had nothing to do with ZOS requiring the IC dailies for event tickets 3 times this year, and everything to do with judging valid tactics you feel are unfair, uneven, and done for cheap thrills.

I shared my story because, the post I was quoting, from page 4 of this thread, used the word "majority" to describe his 5 minute experience, which was done during off-peak hours, so I found it to be an inaccurate response to the other person's complaint which, while exaggerated (comparing IC to forcing someone to do vSS for event tickets), was making the point that "forced" PVE and "forced" PVP are not equal, and "forcing" PVE'ers to do PVP is far more detrimental on the PVE'er than "forcing" PVP'ers to do PVE is on the PVP'er.

I don't think that an account of an experience during off-peak hours is a reflection of the "majority" of IC encounters.

I agree with you that there is nuance and a nature of "your mileage may vary" in regards to PVP, and that's why I think that using an off-peak hours experience to discount the experiences of players and their very valid complaints does not make an effective counter-point.

You absolutely have the right to speak out against my arguments against certain playstyles, and I also have the right to speak out about specific playstyles. I don't think that ganking / PVE hunting / NPC turn in & door camping is in the spirit of competition or good sportsmanship.

I am a heavy PVP'er in video games. I play a lot of 1st person shooters, I (used to) run a Madden league with a full group of 32 guys, each NFL team controlled by a human opponent, I play other sports games like NBA 2K and MLB The Show, and one of my all time favorite MMO's was a PVP centric MMO in Warhammer Online. In every single one of those games, there are behaviors and tactics that are "allowed" by the developers, but despite being "allowed", are very frowned upon in the communities in the game of good sportsmanship and competitive spirit. You can do it, and there's nothing the devs can or will do about it, because it's not an exploit or anything like that, but leagues are probably going to kick you, servers (1st person shooters) will probably boot you, and you're going to get a lot of push back within the community.

I am by no means saying that gankers should be kicked or booted from the game. But I will say, that between this thread and the other PVP thread, there are a lot of PVP'ers talking about needing a healthy population of people for PVP to survive and thrive, but so often, those people who need to be "converted" so to speak, are met with behaviors and tactics that are detrimental to bringing new people into the PVP population. I can tell you right now that gankers and the like are a huge reason why I stay out of IC and Cyrodiil for the most part (tho not the only reason, I just don't think that PVP in this game is very well designed from the get go).

I do 100% agree with you that Imperial City should absolutely have events tied to it, and there is a yearly one in Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates PVP of all types. But we aren't talking about an event that celebrates IC or PVP, we are talking about 3 different events over the course of the year that funnels people into this one zone to partake in content that people don't want to partake in. As I stated earlier: Elsweyr didn't get 3 events. Summerset didn't get 3 events. Undaunted didn't get 3 events. Craglorn & Wrothgar aren't getting 3 events. Even Cyrodiil isn't getting 3 events. Just Imperial City.

You brought up a valid point in the other thread, that people's aversion to Imperial City is ironically profitable for ZOS, so the motivation to do it is there. It's a valid point, but a different argument.

At the end of the day, while you mentioned nuance, my view of "forced" PVP is also nuanced. I am currently speaking out in favor of PVE'ers who are frustrated with having to go into IC over and over and over and over again and endure the ganking tactics that run rampant in that zone, but in all honesty I am in favor of a certain amount of "forced" PVP.

PVP is a legitimate and significant style of play in this game, and 98% of this game already belongs to PVE, so I am against PVE instances of Cyrodiil or Imperial City. I am in agreement with certain rewards and achievements being locked behind PVP, and I am in 100% agreement with events throughout the year going through Cyrodiil or Imperial City content. They absolutely should not be ignored.

But I also agree with those people who feel that 3 events is a bit much, and I also agree with those people who vent their frustrations at just trying to get in and out and get their tickets but have to deal with stealth gankers purposefully seeking out and hunting PVE'ers who are defenseless and can't fight back.

I never have any problem with running through the streets of Imperial City, running into someone and getting killed, outside of the frustration of losing and dying. I'm in a PVP zone, it was a fair fight, and I wasn't the better player. That maintains the competitive spirit and good sportsmanship to me.

I do have a problem with attacking NPC's, or activating a door, and having someone come out of stealth, burst me down, and then stealth and run off when they don't kill me, not allowing any form of defense against them. That's not PVP, that's legitimized griefing. There's no competitive spirit or good sportsmanship to be had there.

And on that, I don't think you and I are ever going to agree. You see it as a valid tactic, I see it as accepted griefing. We are too fundamentally far apart to find a common ground on that subject.

Fair enough on the parts where our views are too far apart.

Though when you say: "I do 100% agree with you that Imperial City should absolutely have events tied to it, and there is a yearly one in Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates PVP of all types. But we aren't talking about an event that celebrates IC or PVP, we are talking about 3 different events over the course of the year that funnels people into this one zone to partake in content that people don't want to partake in."

So I'm confused.

When we talk about 3 different events funneling people to Imperial City this year, we are in fact talking about the 2 Midyear Mayhems and the Year One Celebration which naturally includes the Imperial City DLC as one of the DLC released in year one. (Remember that Midyear Mayhem/Whitestrake's Mayhem is bi-annual now.)

So are you supportive of events featuring Imperial City, and supportive of Midyear Mayhem requiring Inperial City? Or is three events just too much, in your opinion?

I think 3 events for 1 zone when no other zone gets that many is too much.

But, I will concede that I forgot that Midyear Mayhem was twice a year. I thought the event was once a year, and there was another non-MM event that required IC. So my fault on misremembering that.

FlopsyPrince

VaranisArano wrote: »

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

PvPvE works just fine when you prepare for the PVP portion.

I'd be really curious to see how PVE would have to be redesigned to cope with being able to transition seamlessly to PVP.

If it were just the stats and the gear, then ZOS could offer us "builds" or something where we could easily and cheaply swap back and forth.

But it's not just the stats. If you want to jump into Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil PVP, it quickly becomes apparent that it's a whole different set of tactics. One of the basic things that PVEers miss is that you have to proactively defend, buff, and heal yourself, preferably before you get into combat, because a smart opponent is not going to let you recover with an "Oh shoot" heal once they have you in execute range. One thing I had to learn as a MagDK was that I couldn't take my Stamina for granted - I don't have much more of it than a PVE build would, but I'm always watching to make sure I don't run low because I have to be able to dodge roll or break free instantly. If I can't, I'm dead.

Those are just two examples. My experience with the godly pre-Morrowind Blazeplar was that I can slap on the meta PVP gear and get all my stats in order with all the right skills, but until I learn the tactics for using that gear against a real live intelligent player, I'm going to get my butt handed to me again and again.

I don't know how to take that experience of fighting a real live intelligent player in PVE so that players can transition seamlessly without seriously changing how PVE works.

And I'm not sure that the PVE community would really appreciate having "their" preferred gameplay drastically altered in order to seamlessly transition them to content that plenty of them have no interest in doing except when there are event rewards.


That being said, good luck with your dedicated PVP toon!

Most people don't "prepare properly" for PvE, but can still have an enjoyable time. Requiring extra expense like this only to aid gankers is not a good thing for ZOS, the point of me starting this thread that clearly has quite a bit of interest.

FlopsyPrince

Having an event that leaves a significant number of players coming out of it thinking that so many other players are _______ (your term here) is not good for the game in the slightest.

kargen27

Folkb wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Folkb wrote: »

I'll say the same thing I keep repeating. Pvpve doesn't work in this game because to go from one to another requires a completely different bult character. Pvp and pve don't flow back and forth seamlessly in ESO due to the priority of completely different stats being important and imo is what keeps this game from being amazing.

On the bright side the rewards for this event are pretty meh so I'm fine with 1 ticket per day.

At some point ill have a dedicated pvp toon but thats going to take a while.

The same could be said about really anything in the game. I use different gear for dungeons, overland and trials. For one character I have three healing set-ups and two DPS set-ups I use depending on my role and the make-up of the group. That same character has three builds for PvP.
For normal trials I don't worry to much about changing builds, won't adjust CP and things like that. About any healing set is going to work for normal. Same with PvP. If I am running around hunting Telvar or doing dailies I don't worry about going into full PvP mode. Usually do not need to. If I plan on sticking around and joining in on the killing and dying then I switch out.

You are not going to be good at 1vX in PvE gear but that doesn't mean you will completely fail in PvP land wearing PvE gear. You do have to change your strategy some. NPC enemies tend to be repetitive and predictable. Player enemies may not be. That is actually the fun of PvP.

All that aside to complete the daily requirements for this event very little if any real PvP is needed.

I dont do trials but I have the same set for everything pve wise. Arenas, dungeons and overland. If I remember I might change a couple of pieces while doing a vet daily just to remove my pale order ring. But most of the time you don't really need to bother with that. Pvp is a whole other monster. Although im sure you can get away with just piling up in a zerg.

My point is PvP is not a whole other monster. Especially as it pertains to this event it isn't a whole other monster.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

cheeseaddict wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

It's... a PVP zone. If you don't want to deal with it, don't go there. Nobody is forcing you to do so.

This same argument comes up every time a PVP zone gets any event.

Nothing is going to change, people are still going to whine for the mere sake of it, and we're going to continue seeing these posts until ESO exists no more.

Edit: Unlike an Event like Midyear Mayhem, or IC event in it's own... You can go to Orsinium OR Craglorn to play this event as well. There's absolutely no need to negatively rope PVP players into the "Wah they're killing PVE players" discussion again.

YES, you do have to go there, you cannot complete the holiday quest without killing a boss in IC

Just to add to what Varanis said, you DO NOT need to kill a boss in IC unless you want to complete the special event quest, "Sand, Snow, and Blood," and you DO NOT need to complete that quest to earn an event ticket. That quest will reward you with (IIRC) a little gold and/or XP, plus a purple event coffer, but not an event ticket. And you can do the event zone dailies to earn event tickets WITHOUT needing to do the special event quest first.

However, to anyone interested in killing an IC boss so they can complete the event intro quest, I'd recommend the boss that's closest to your alliance home base, as someone else has already recommended in another post.

For the sand snow and blood quest you can go down in the sewers and pop one of those bosses. Doesn't have to be a banner boss. Any ole boss down there will do. Much easier to pop those than the ones upstairs.

DestroyerPewnack

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Having an event that leaves a significant number of players coming out of it thinking that so many other players are _______ (your term here) is not good for the game in the slightest.

The other way to look at it is, having a "significant" number of players continue to refuse to learn how to counter certain playstyles, or even how to PvP, is bad for the game. There are people in this thread who explained repeatedly how to counter nightblades. There are loads of videos on Youtube that show you how, with gameplay footage.

You're not necessarily a significant number. People who are happy or indifferent with the state of the game usually have no reason to come to the forums and share how they feel. It's only people who have complaints, (legitimate or otherwise,) who end up here.