Wrong Event Name - It Should Be "Feed the Gankers!"

FlopsyPrince · August 2021

RaikaNA wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....

If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

All I'm saying is that their Alcast builds aren't good for PvP and IC... and yes I'm saying that they're in trial gear because why else are they complaining that they're getting killed by gankers? Their setup is too squishy and weak... I kid you not... Back when the event was occurring for Cyrodill.. I bear witness a Pver with relequen gear in Cyrodill trying to PvP. I'm certain he was getting more deaths than actual kills on that day.

I am squishy and week in many ways, especially against a dedicated PvP build, but I do not have a single piece of trials gear. Nor arena gear for that matter. Don't generalize.

FlopsyPrince · August 2021

Sephyr wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In the time between these posts, I logged in on a PVE trial toon, ported into IC, went to a zone controlled by another faction (to make it "difficult"), completed a quest which involved clicking on 4 ballistas, a barrel of oil, and a forge, and walked all the way back to my base. Total time in game, 5 minutes and 23 seconds. I did not use a single offensive ability or ever engage in combat, and of course, I did not die. Got tickets (or rather, a single ticket).

Going to time Wrothgar, BRB.

Ported to Wrothgar, grabbed quest, ported to friend, touched 4 obelisks, ported to friend, ported near boss, killed a titan in 4 seconds with 20 other players, ported to a friend, turned in quest. Total time in game, 7 minutes and 9 seconds. Engaged in combat 3 times along the way.

Seriously people, what are we even talking about here? It's like ZOS asked for your first born in exchange for an event ticket. This stuff is trivial, and its for something completely cosmetic.

I don't even follow events that closely, didn't do IC yesterday, and have enough tickets for what I need already from the vendor this time around. At this rate I will have completed yet another spare pet (have a pet and fragments for another), have all the frags available, and enough tickets to buy the last frag when it drops.

And finally, logged into my PVP toon. Picked up all 6 daily's, completed all in 25 minutes and 41 seconds. Died 3 times. Came out plus 2500 telvar or so. This just really isnt that difficult...

Chiming in with a similar experience. Logged into all three of my accounts to test as well after seeing your post and got them done within half an hour (including the wait time to get in the poplocked campaign) and completed the dailies without having to engage in PvP (aka; fight back to do the quest). Two accounts don't have Wrothgar, so I'm cycling through those now which are ironically taking me longer to do, but while I wait for people to respond for a Spellscar group (I like variety), I'm writing this up.

The Wrothgar quests use the same ticket the Craglorn ones do, so those are either-or. I validated that on a character today.

Sephyr · August 2021

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In the time between these posts, I logged in on a PVE trial toon, ported into IC, went to a zone controlled by another faction (to make it "difficult"), completed a quest which involved clicking on 4 ballistas, a barrel of oil, and a forge, and walked all the way back to my base. Total time in game, 5 minutes and 23 seconds. I did not use a single offensive ability or ever engage in combat, and of course, I did not die. Got tickets (or rather, a single ticket).

Going to time Wrothgar, BRB.

Ported to Wrothgar, grabbed quest, ported to friend, touched 4 obelisks, ported to friend, ported near boss, killed a titan in 4 seconds with 20 other players, ported to a friend, turned in quest. Total time in game, 7 minutes and 9 seconds. Engaged in combat 3 times along the way.

Seriously people, what are we even talking about here? It's like ZOS asked for your first born in exchange for an event ticket. This stuff is trivial, and its for something completely cosmetic.

I don't even follow events that closely, didn't do IC yesterday, and have enough tickets for what I need already from the vendor this time around. At this rate I will have completed yet another spare pet (have a pet and fragments for another), have all the frags available, and enough tickets to buy the last frag when it drops.

And finally, logged into my PVP toon. Picked up all 6 daily's, completed all in 25 minutes and 41 seconds. Died 3 times. Came out plus 2500 telvar or so. This just really isnt that difficult...

Chiming in with a similar experience. Logged into all three of my accounts to test as well after seeing your post and got them done within half an hour (including the wait time to get in the poplocked campaign) and completed the dailies without having to engage in PvP (aka; fight back to do the quest). Two accounts don't have Wrothgar, so I'm cycling through those now which are ironically taking me longer to do, but while I wait for people to respond for a Spellscar group (I like variety), I'm writing this up.

The Wrothgar quests use the same ticket the Craglorn ones do, so those are either-or. I validated that on a character today.

I know those are either or, that's why I was waiting on those accounts for groups in Craglorn as I'm not buying Orsinium multiple times. I bolded the parts that in the quotes that specify this.

VaranisArano · August 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm really not trying to strawman you, but I am addressing arguments I have heard during the many, many other complaint threads over the years. I'm sorry if that's bleeding over into this discussion. You may not be necessarily advancing this position, but there are players who have held the stance that any PVP at all is too hard and would qualify as "Vet Content." Thise players have asked that ZOS not require any PVP content from events.

I am my own person, and it is frustrating to have words put into my mouth because I'm a PvE'er. Arguments should be discussed on their own merit, no matter who is making them. And the arguments you respond to and attribute to another person should be the argument that they are making. When you reword it into your head in that way, you miss fair points and good discussion, and you treat the person you're having the conversation with as an enemy to be defeated rather than a human you're talking to. That's really only appropriate when you're discussing something people say in general, rather than rewording a specific person's argument.

And so I'm very skeptical of the argument that "Events should not require Imperial City because it's Vet Content." I've seen that same argument used to say "Events should not require any PVP or PvPvE content because it's "Vet Content", too hard, or requires too much investment." Maybe not by you, but certainly by other players over the years.

Okay, but I'm not those people and don't agree. I think there are different kinds of content levels, aimed at multiple different types of people. I am opposed to making content that is supposed to serve as an enticement to get people to try new things being content that is not introductory level. It ticks people off and leaves awful first impressions, it creates a user experience where they aren't engaging in meaningful gameplay which is generally not fun, and causes a tons of complaints. Some of them overly exaggerated and over the top, and some of them valid.
.

Now, your argument appears to be that Imperial City District Dailies are "Vet Content" and thus too hard to be required for event rewards like event tickets.

Again, I disagree. Now, maybe I would, since I'm comfortable bringing my Farmer in her PVE sprinter gear and bolting through the quest objectives, shrugging it off every time I die. I'm also comfortable bringing in my PVP healer and slugging it out through the dailies too. I've done dailies on characters who only concession to PVP was whatever impenetrable gear I could scrounge up.

But let's lay aside matters of personal comfort.

According to your argument, this would exclude Imperial City from the ticket requirements from Midyear Mayhem. I'm really not comfortable with PVE-only players dictating that a certain PVP area is "too hard" to be required during an event designed to celebrate all things PVP.

PvP players aren't required to do vet PVE, because their play experience matters as to how that is introduced. Why should PvE players not be taken into consideration the other way around? Vet content isn't suitable to beginners, and that's okay. There's plenty of ways to include vet content without making it mandatory. It would NOT exclude them offering tickets from those dailies during MYM or any other PvP event. It only requires them to not to make them required for the ticket. They can give options.

"1 ticket for doing Sewers or Cyrodiil daily, 1 ticket from completing your first battleground" isn't that different than "1 ticket from either Crag or Wrothgar daily." Frankly, there's plenty of experienced PvPers that would prefer that too. As I know plenty that like Cyro but not Sewers, or vice versa. If they could get their ticket doing the daily they actually like, that would benefit them too.

Second, how hard is it to get the tickets from the IC daily quests? Honestly, I'd put the dailies at about the same difficulty as the Cyrodiil town quests during an event. The quests are really easy - it's the enemy players who are the problem. And even when there are gankers and other enemies are about, there's plenty of opportunity to sneak, speed, group up, fight, or move to a different district to do your daily for tickets. So based on my assessment of difficulty, does that make Cyrodiil town quests "Vet Content"? And if it does, what does that mean for what PvPvE content can be required during Midyear Mayhem? Of the "easy" quests for PVEers, I'm pretty sure that's leaves us with just the Scouting Missions.

You are also an experienced PvPer that enjoys PvP. This is one of the single most complained about (if not the single most complained about) thing across all events, it gets more complaints than quests in Cyrodiil. That should tell you that objectively these players find it hard enough that they are hating their experience. That the common advice is to learn to play and build specifically for the activity, should tell you that they are hating their experience because they are novices being asked to do content they aren't ready to do meaningfully, and thus are having a bad time. Veteran content is content for experienced players. It's bad as an introduction, and that's fine. There's plenty of ways to make it rewarding for the players that enjoy it without requiring novices to engage in it.

Sure, but it's not necessary to do so in order to get your event tickets.[/quote}

It's only unnecessary if you engage in an exploit, which doesn't allow you to meaningfully engage with the content but instead forces you to play it in a likely unintended way. Otherwise, it's very easy to keep someone from getting their tickets. Which is why there is a lot of people that complain. They have an awful experience getting their things done and can only rely on either being carried, going there late at night, or building specifically for that task. They cannot engage meaningfully with the content, no matter how briefly, while having a non-stealth PvE build, which is the majority of the PvE players builds. Hence, all the complaints.

So I have a lot of qualms about "Events should not require Imperial City because it's Vet Content" both about the argument you are making and the way that applies to the other arguments I've seen players make. And if it seems like a strawman, sorry, but this discussion isn't happening in a vacuum. Every single Imperial City Event, these discussions happen.

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind ZOS requiring trials for an event ticket. But then, I'll note again that when players had the option to do WGT or ICP for tickets, they still complained that those were too hard. Even with the Undaunted Event, we still see players complaining that they are forced to group up or solo Normal Fungal Grotto 1. This business of excluding "Vet content" based on perceived difficulty isn't quite so simple.

Most of the time, there are valid arguments on both sides of these kinds of discussions. Arguments should be evaluated on their own merits, not on who's side they help.

Upfront, I'm not going to agree with you that Imperial City should never again be required for Event tickets during Midyear Mayhem, which celebrates all things PVP, so I think we're fundamentally at an impasse. I'm not a huge fan of the dailies, but its absolutely valid that ZOS requires them for event tickets just like it would be valid if ZOS required Battlegrounds.

I've already said that ZOS should have included the option to have the PVE-only WGT/ICP dungeons for this event's tickets, as they did for past Imperial City events. This dungeons are also Imperial City DLC content, so they should have been included. That would mean that the IC Districts were not required for this event for players who wanted event tickets. Would that have satisfied you?

I ask, because my experience is that it would not satisfy many players who dislike PVP. In past events, players still complained that they were "forced" into Imperial City for non-ticket event exclusive rewards. For some players, any amount of PVP is too much. For some players, Imperial City should never be featured in an event, even if it's not a requirement. For some players, they'll even argue that PvPvE zones in general should never be required in an event, since similar complaints are made about Midyear Mayhem tickets even when Imperial City wasn't a requirement for past events.

That might not be your POV, and that's fine. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

That being said, I'm looking at the wider context of years of complaints because that's what informs my understanding of how certain segments of PVEers react to these events. You may not be saying there shouldn't be any PVP requirements in any events, but other players are, and that's a viewpoint I recognize and want to address in light of what you say about difficulty, complaints, and bad experiences in Imperial City.

So I'll say this, ZOS knows all that. They aren't ignorant to the fact that many players dislike Imperial City and indeed dislike events that require PvPvE zones. They've read the complaints. They've judged the reports for toxic behavior. They've got the data on what players do. Arguably, they know better what the playerbase does about these events than we do. Yet what do the Devs do? They keep running those events - and this time, they explicitly required Imperial City with no PVE-only option for event tickets.

I'm not sure what exactly that says about ZOS. [snip] But it seems clear that ZOS does not agree with you that Imperial City is Vet Content which players should never be required to engage in during events for tickets. Certainly, ZOS does not agree with the players who argue that PVP should never be required for events.

Instead, I'd say that events aren't really introductory. They are encouragement for players to go do featured content for exclusive event rewards. [snip] Players who hate IC show up to play for rewards, even when it's not required for tickets. That's ZOS' goal accomplished. After all, it's not like ZOS doesn't know that Imperial City turns into a ghost town when the events end.

We'll see what happens next year. If ZOS does another Imperial City Event, I hope they offer players the PVE-only dungeon options for event tickets so that the IC Districts aren't required. But that won't stop the flood of complaints from players who feel "forced" into "Vet Content" Imperial City for other exclusive non-ticket rewards.

Or maybe we'll get a "Year Two Celebration." Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood? Well, I hate Heists and Black Sacraments, but I'll either do them for the event tickets or miss out.

[edited for bashing]

katanagirl1 · August 2021

I tried to read through all these posts but this is the same tiresome stuff that gets posted every PvP event.

I’m not a fan of IC even though I PvP in Cyrodiil and I agree that we just did dailies here recently. Really, the sewers themselves aren’t that bad, except when some players camp the other faction entrances to the bases. It’s the districts above that are a real gankfest.

There are so many more PvE events than PvP events and you don’t see this kind of complaining on them. If you don’t want to do IC then bank up your tickets beforehand. Geesh.

FlopsyPrince · August 2021

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I tried to read through all these posts but this is the same tiresome stuff that gets posted every PvP event.

I’m not a fan of IC even though I PvP in Cyrodiil and I agree that we just did dailies here recently. Really, the sewers themselves aren’t that bad, except when some players camp the other faction entrances to the bases. It’s the districts above that are a real gankfest.

There are so many more PvE events than PvP events and you don’t see this kind of complaining on them. If you don’t want to do IC then bank up your tickets beforehand. Geesh.

The fact that this comes up with each event AND that we had 3 already this year with a required IC component IIRC should say something about a problem here.

====

I noted the Wrothgar and Craghorn dailies were the same since someone earlier indicated (in this or another thread, that they could both be done for the 2 tickets. Just noting that in this case, not complaining per se.

====

Some noted they did the PvP items fast. That is part of the problem. Sometimes it is really easy. Sometimes it is impossible. It all depends.

FlopsyPrince · August 2021

Saying all this, making parts of it much easier would make this better in spite of all the ganking. Make it less cumbersome to pickup the set of dailies. Properly mark (in AD) which areas still have quests to do, including showing it when you are above ground (where it gets hidden on the map).

I would also highly recommend removing the value of ganking. That may be trickier, but figuring out why most people do it could give some insight to make that less severe. Yes, let people die, but don't let them die repeatedly trying to finish the quest.

spartaxoxo · August 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've already said that ZOS should have included the option to have the PVE-only WGT/ICP dungeons for this event's tickets, as they did for past Imperial City events. This dungeons are also Imperial City DLC content, so they should have been included. That would mean that the IC Districts were not required for this event for players who wanted event tickets. Would that have satisfied you?

Yes. It would have. Because again that's the difference between a requirement/mandate (you must play sewers to get tickets) and an option (you can do sewers to get tickets) but it's an option.

As I said requiring IC is no different than requiring VSS. If you say "any Elysweyr daily can count" then that introduces Elysweyr to players without requiring players who don't have the builds or experience to have veteran level capabilities as they explore new content.

Sewers is the one and only piece of vet content people are forced to do for tickets.

I think it harms IC that so many players feel that way, and that perhaps want they want is for IC to be a dead zone, perhaps because they want to abandon the content but cannot. I cannot for the life of me fathom any other reason they continously make choices that make more and more people hate IC. Especially when they are trying to improve the newcomer experience for Cyrodiil and already did for Battlegrounds.

As for events not being introductory content for whatever the event is showcasing...they wouldn't be having sales each time they have them if one of their purposes wasn't to entice people to do content that's new to them. It's obviously a reason.

kargen27 · August 2021

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I tried to read through all these posts but this is the same tiresome stuff that gets posted every PvP event.

I’m not a fan of IC even though I PvP in Cyrodiil and I agree that we just did dailies here recently. Really, the sewers themselves aren’t that bad, except when some players camp the other faction entrances to the bases. It’s the districts above that are a real gankfest.

There are so many more PvE events than PvP events and you don’t see this kind of complaining on them. If you don’t want to do IC then bank up your tickets beforehand. Geesh.

The fact that this comes up with each event AND that we had 3 already this year with a required IC component IIRC should say something about a problem here.

I think for the most part people like to come to the forums to complain. These forums are not representative of the game player population. Never have been. To few post here.
I refer to all the threads complaining about one type of endeavor or another on an almost daily basis to support my opinion that players here like to complain.

FaylenSol · August 2021

Haven't had any issues on my DPS built for solo PvE. Didn't even bother swapping to more appropriate gear, kept ring of the pale order on, etc. etc.

Completed dailies twice in a row now. Killed like 9 players across the two days of trying to do the dailies. Died maybe 5 times total? Couple of the deaths were very convenient since it let me respawn right next to where I needed to turn in the daily quest. Was like a free teleport.

Takes me less than 20 minutes to complete the IC daily. Might try it on my 60k Health Necro tank to see if I die less tomorrow.

FlopsyPrince · August 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I tried to read through all these posts but this is the same tiresome stuff that gets posted every PvP event.

I’m not a fan of IC even though I PvP in Cyrodiil and I agree that we just did dailies here recently. Really, the sewers themselves aren’t that bad, except when some players camp the other faction entrances to the bases. It’s the districts above that are a real gankfest.

There are so many more PvE events than PvP events and you don’t see this kind of complaining on them. If you don’t want to do IC then bank up your tickets beforehand. Geesh.

The fact that this comes up with each event AND that we had 3 already this year with a required IC component IIRC should say something about a problem here.

I think for the most part people like to come to the forums to complain. These forums are not representative of the game player population. Never have been. To few post here.
I refer to all the threads complaining about one type of endeavor or another on an almost daily basis to support my opinion that players here like to complain.

Many come to claim any recommended change is bad as well.

But the complaints do still show a pain point. They may not need huge action, but serious consideration should happen.

SeaGtGruff · August 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In the time between these posts, I logged in on a PVE trial toon, ported into IC, went to a zone controlled by another faction (to make it "difficult"), completed a quest which involved clicking on 4 ballistas, a barrel of oil, and a forge, and walked all the way back to my base. Total time in game, 5 minutes and 23 seconds. I did not use a single offensive ability or ever engage in combat, and of course, I did not die. Got tickets (or rather, a single ticket).

[snip for brevity]

And finally, logged into my PVP toon. Picked up all 6 daily's, completed all in 25 minutes and 41 seconds. Died 3 times. Came out plus 2500 telvar or so. This just really isnt that difficult...

I agree. I'm not a PvPer (and, TBH, not that great of a PvEr, either), but I can usually complete any of the district daily quests in a matter of minutes-- some take longer than others, of course, and it depends on how overrun a given district is with enemy players and how intent they are on killing me. But even if I killed a few times, I can usually complete a given quest within, say, no more than 15 minutes-- and some I can do in well under 5 minutes.

Part of this is becoming very familiar with each quest so you can develop a strategy for completing it PDQ, such as knowing the quickest routes to take, or the areas to avoid if possible (because of the NPCs), or the best places to find some specific type of enemy you're supposed to kill. But it also involves learning the best way to handle certain situations.

I'll take the Memorial District as an example, because it used to be one of the quests that gave me the most trouble, but is now one of the fastest quests to complete-- on a good day it probably takes me under 2 minutes to complete it.

The first Xivkyn is easy to find and kill, because there's one right by my alliance's spawn point, with only a couple of Worm Cultists there as well.

The second Xivkyn was always more challenging, because it seemed like any I picked a fight with in the central area of the district would attract a large crowd of Worm Cultists and various heavy-hitting MOBs, not to mention any enemy players in the area. But then I noticed a Xivkyn that's more or less alone, in the street that goes from one main gate, to the center of the district, and on to the opposite main gate. I can attack that Xivkyn without attracting a lot of other enemies.

But the hard part was getting there quickly and safely. I've found that the best way to do that is to mount up after killing the first Xivkyn, then ride clockwise around the building where our spawn point is, about 240 or 270 degrees to where the second Xivkyn is. This takes me out into the central area past a number of enemy MOBs, but I've got the passive that lets me ride past MOBs without aggroing them unless I get too close or don't go fast enough. So I can kill the first Xivkyn and attendant Worm Cultists, then ride quickly to the second Xivkyn and dispatch it.

The final part was always the hardest-- putting the charged geodes in the 4 skeleton laborers. They've got other enemy MOBs around them or nearby, and some are heavy hitters. But I found that I was able to mount up, ride up to each skeleton, hit "E" to place the charge geode, and ride off to the next skeleton without getting attacked and dismounted if I was quick enough and timed it just right-- which also means not overshooting the skeleton and having to turn around and try again, since it's always been a challenge to me to do that successfully (even if I'm trying to interact with a node while riding past but end up missing it). On a good day I can quickly ride around the central area and place the charged geodes in all 4 skeletons without attracting attacks from the surrounding MOBs.

After that, I just ride back to the location of the first Xivkyn-- who hasn't respawned yet-- so I can ride along the outer wall and take the corner exit before anything attacks me. The whole process takes about a minute or 2-- unless the district is overrun by enemy players, in which case it might be better to go do a different district and then come back when it's quieter, or else just go for it and tough it out.

The process isn't that much different than trying to learn how to solo a dungeon, although of course any enemy players are going to add an element of extreme unpredictability.

Aznarb · August 2021

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

You realize than all game are about that right ?
You want something ? Then you MUST do X, you don't want do X, then you don't get something.

SickleCider · August 2021

I'm usually not bothered by PVPers but I have seen some behavior the last two nights that I don't like:

1. Team green locked down a district. They were camping the spawn and also parked on top of quest relevant mobs. They were killing the mobs as soon as they spawned and staying there so no reds could complete their quests. (Before someone starts an alliance vs alliance debate: the colors aren't really the point here.)

2. A group of two I saw in the sewers that was ganking people as they were clicking the door to enter the base. That seemed very low to me.

There are ways around these behaviors. That doesn't make the behaviors any prettier.

midgetfromtheshire · August 2021

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

Except there isn't any coercion.

stuartx13 · August 2021

You need to talk to you own faction if thay gank doors to home base we are going to do it to.

stuartx13 · August 2021

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

even a pvper like me can see whats up stop canping the quest spots.

Gleitfrosch · August 2021

Pushing PvE players into a zone where they have to deal with dedicated PvP players shows that the devs do not relly think their ideas through to the end.

All I do is to sneak/die my way through the city until I finish my first daily for the ticket and then immediately leave the zone. Sometimes I am lucky to get it done whithout getting killed by a player I have no chance against.

the argument that PvP players are forced to do PvE stuff does not work because there is noone who can easily stop you from doing the PvE daily by killing you.. over and over again.

such events together with the massive downgrade in quest quality in the last few DLC make me worry about the future of the game.

Pauwer · August 2021

I really dont get why just not go ic if pvp is such an issue. Will you drop dead if you miss some tickets in some game?

carlos424 · August 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....

If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.

During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

A little off on your analogy. How much preparation does it take for a pvp setup to get event tickets in wrothgar/craglorn? Absolutely none. You can go in with full pvp specs, bomb blade, whatever, and have no problem doing a delve or world boss daily. Cannot say the same for going into imperial city. Even Cyrodil is spread out enough, and you can do scouting daily on a low level toon. If you take that same toon into imperial city, you have to do some preparation. Better go no cp, better have stealth pots, better find others doing the same quest, better get on at 3am to avoid 1600 cp ganking 200 cp toons. Lol. A little exaggeration but you get the point. It can be a pain for low level and inexperienced players. There should be a mercy rule…after you get ganked 5 times trying to complete the quest, you are awarded your event tickets : )

AlnilamE · August 2021

Iluvrien wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The other thing to consider is that players who don't know how to PVP effectively or aren't built for PVP aren't likely to be capable of a "good fight." It takes some practice to survive a gank and then to turn the tables on your attacker. Players who haven't or who don't want to put in the time for that practice face a very steep learning curve right now. And I don't think there's any way to get around that - if the only time players PVP is casually during MYM and the IC events, then it's pretty hard to practice the type of skills, situational awareness, and reflexes that help turn a "cheap kill" into a "good fight."

And this paragraph here is why there should be a PvE and PvP way of earning maximum tickets for each event.

Come on ZOS, really let people play how they want.

There is a PvE way. Run 2 characters through the IC dailies before the event starts and hand them in once per day from the safety of your alliance base.

BlueRaven · August 2021

Aznarb wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

You realize than all game are about that right ?
You want something ? Then you MUST do X, you don't want do X, then you don't get something.

If a single player game made players do things they don’t like, word gets around and players don’t buy it.

If a mmo game later on forces you into a quest you really don’t like, then offers an alternative to the reward by using real life money… That feels a lot like coercion.

Zos had a a myriad of ways to give out event tickets for that shiny new mount. As others have said they could have included IC dungeons, or made any of the first two dailies in any of the three zones give out tickets. Instead they made an ic daily, the most toxic pvp environment, a requirement. They knew exactly what were doing. They had alternatives and they chose the least popular one to implement to get people in that area.

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

Except there isn't any coercion.

The poster above you thinks it is coercion as well, but a coercion that is somehow acceptable in games.

Making a player enter a PvP area for event tickets, or offering them the ticket for real life money as an alternative. It certainly feels like coercion.

midgetfromtheshire · August 2021

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

You realize than all game are about that right ?
You want something ? Then you MUST do X, you don't want do X, then you don't get something.

If a single player game made players do things they don’t like, word gets around and players don’t buy it.

If a mmo game later on forces you into a quest you really don’t like, then offers an alternative to the reward by using real life money… That feels a lot like coercion.

Zos had a a myriad of ways to give out event tickets for that shiny new mount. As others have said they could have included IC dungeons, or made any of the first two dailies in any of the three zones give out tickets. Instead they made an ic daily, the most toxic pvp environment, a requirement. They knew exactly what were doing. They had alternatives and they chose the least popular one to implement to get people in that area.

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

Except there isn't any coercion.

The poster above you thinks it is coercion as well, but a coercion that is somehow acceptable in games.

Making a player enter a PvP area for event tickets, or offering them the ticket for real life money as an alternative. It certainly feels like coercion.

You can either get 1 ticket from doing exclusively PvE or PvP, or do both for 2 tickets. You can choose to do one or the other, or do both. The event is purely optional so nothing like it is forcing you to participate.

Sephyr · August 2021

Pauwer wrote: »

I really dont get why just not go ic if pvp is such an issue. Will you drop dead if you miss some tickets in some game?

It's the same reason why I don't get how reducing the rewards again is going to stop people who are obviously troll-camping. I caught three from AD doing it yesterday and it's a growing trend lately, at least in the first half of primetime, who nestle on the ballistae. So I started using counters and what did you know — the trolling stopped because I kept killing them and after about an hour they gave up due to the fact I kept the counters going. Any seasoned ganker knows that it's more lucrative to kill people who're there for district farming anyways. Killing anyone more than once unless a significant amount of time's went by is killing your net profits.

VaranisArano · August 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I've already said that ZOS should have included the option to have the PVE-only WGT/ICP dungeons for this event's tickets, as they did for past Imperial City events. This dungeons are also Imperial City DLC content, so they should have been included. That would mean that the IC Districts were not required for this event for players who wanted event tickets. Would that have satisfied you?

Yes. It would have. Because again that's the difference between a requirement/mandate (you must play sewers to get tickets) and an option (you can do sewers to get tickets) but it's an option.

As I said requiring IC is no different than requiring VSS. If you say "any Elysweyr daily can count" then that introduces Elysweyr to players without requiring players who don't have the builds or experience to have veteran level capabilities as they explore new content.

Sewers is the one and only piece of vet content people are forced to do for tickets.

I think it harms IC that so many players feel that way, and that perhaps want they want is for IC to be a dead zone, perhaps because they want to abandon the content but cannot. I cannot for the life of me fathom any other reason they continously make choices that make more and more people hate IC. Especially when they are trying to improve the newcomer experience for Cyrodiil and already did for Battlegrounds.

As for events not being introductory content for whatever the event is showcasing...they wouldn't be having sales each time they have them if one of their purposes wasn't to entice people to do content that's new to them. It's obviously a reason.

Cool, then we agree that ZOS should not have required the Districts for this event and should have offered the usual PVE-only option, at least.

Events aren't introductory, and sales don't make them so. Events are enticement for players to do (and thus obviously, to buy, if they do not own it) certain content in return for exclusive event rewards.

If you are new, obviously everything will be an introduction. Thus it's possible to say that if someone bought content for an event, obviously that event is introductory. But that's not really the point of an event - particularly with something like Imperial City, which is already free. Someone might be enticed to go there for the first time for the extra event rewards, but that is their choice, and has nothing to do with any sale in this case.

I am reminded of the Undaunted Event, which one might argue serves as an Introduction to Dungeons for many new players or for players who really only want the event rewards. But judging by the complaint threads I've read for that event too, it kinda sucks as an introduction. Whether it was the first event where random dungeons threw players into DLC dungeons they didn't want to do, or recent events where speedrunners and fake roles are doing the easy normal dungeons where any new player is trying to learn, it's a fairly bruising experience. Many groups do just fine, but there are definitely complaints from new folks about wanting to slow down, wanting to learn the mechanics, wanting to quest and other reasonable requests that often get met with "Well, it's an event and people just want the loot." Sure, you can solo a dungeon, but again, hesr the complaints of players who can't or won't and thus feel "forced" to deal with groupfinder.

I'm not trying to point fingers at PVE folks, because I really like the Undaunted Event, warts and all.

But it's not a good introduction to Group Dungeons. I'd argue that it's one of the worst times to start doing dungeons if you want to take your time and learn how to play your role, as opposed to rushing through for event rewards.

And so I'm not convinced that Events are specifically introductory, so much as they are encouragement to go do certain types of featured content in order to get special rewards. Or if they are supposed to be an introduction, then ZOS is pretty darned bad at it and not just with Imperial City.

BlueRaven · August 2021

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

You realize than all game are about that right ?
You want something ? Then you MUST do X, you don't want do X, then you don't get something.

If a single player game made players do things they don’t like, word gets around and players don’t buy it.

If a mmo game later on forces you into a quest you really don’t like, then offers an alternative to the reward by using real life money… That feels a lot like coercion.

Zos had a a myriad of ways to give out event tickets for that shiny new mount. As others have said they could have included IC dungeons, or made any of the first two dailies in any of the three zones give out tickets. Instead they made an ic daily, the most toxic pvp environment, a requirement. They knew exactly what were doing. They had alternatives and they chose the least popular one to implement to get people in that area.

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

Except there isn't any coercion.

The poster above you thinks it is coercion as well, but a coercion that is somehow acceptable in games.

Making a player enter a PvP area for event tickets, or offering them the ticket for real life money as an alternative. It certainly feels like coercion.

You can either get 1 ticket from doing exclusively PvE or PvP, or do both for 2 tickets. You can choose to do one or the other, or do both. The event is purely optional so nothing like it is forcing you to participate.

The rules from what and where event tickets are distributed from was not mandated by some outside force beyond zos’s control.

Zos had the option of distributing them a myriad of ways. And they even could have, as an example, turned all of ic into a pve only area for the event, as an option.

And technically playing the game is optional. Having a computer is optional too. As is having money, or living in a house, or having a telephone. There are plenty of people living “off the grid” in Alaska that don’t even have electricity. So what exactly is your point? Does coercion not exist, ever? Is it a “fake” word?

They put a reward up (a mount) then made players go through one of the least popular content areas to get it. (Or they could pay up with real world cash.)

Nothing forced zos to implement this event activity in this manner.

And it’s not unpopular because of the activity itself, but because of the actions of other players.

And are we expecting this to happen without complaint? I mean, seriously?

SeaGtGruff · August 2021

carlos424 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....

If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.

During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

A little off on your analogy. How much preparation does it take for a pvp setup to get event tickets in wrothgar/craglorn? Absolutely none. You can go in with full pvp specs, bomb blade, whatever, and have no problem doing a delve or world boss daily. Cannot say the same for going into imperial city. Even Cyrodil is spread out enough, and you can do scouting daily on a low level toon. If you take that same toon into imperial city, you have to do some preparation. Better go no cp, better have stealth pots, better find others doing the same quest, better get on at 3am to avoid 1600 cp ganking 200 cp toons. Lol. A little exaggeration but you get the point. It can be a pain for low level and inexperienced players. There should be a mercy rule…after you get ganked 5 times trying to complete the quest, you are awarded your event tickets : )

I always go into Cyrodiil and IC without ever adjusting my gear or skills. Admittedly, my PC NA main's gear is PvP armor that I bought in IC with TV, but my PC EU main's gear is standard PvE armor that I transmuted to the Impenetrable trait. And my DPS is pretty lousy by PvE standards, although my PC EU main's DPS seems to be the slightly better of the two (I haven't tried to measure them recently).

Anyway, I just go in with the attitude that (1) I'm probably going to get killed, and (2) I'm going to have fun anyway. I'm not interested in starting any PvP fights, and will try to escape them if I can, but I try not to let myself get upset about it.

As long as you maintain a good attitude, and keep at it long enough to learn your way around the districts and sewers, it isn't difficult to complete a district daily and earn a ticket. I can't really tell you which one is easiest, because your experience may differ from mine, but I always do all 6 just because I enjoy the event-- even though I don't enjoy PvP.

AuraStorm43 · August 2021

Its a pvp zone, get in a group if you don’t wanna get ganked

Sanguinor2 · August 2021

To all the people saying that they are forced to do this: No you are not. In fact you had a choice that you most likely already made.
Choices being:
1) I want the event reward so bad that Im willing to tolerate doing something that I dont like doing in order to get it
2) While I would like getting the event reward I dislike the required content so much that Im not willing to do it.
(or 3 you decide that you dont like the event reward that much)

Its what most people go through regardless of event. I for example dont like doing the thieves guild dailies, if a thieves guild event drops a reward I want Im just gonna log onto my vampire nightblade, slot full stealthgear and get it over with (the same can work really well for IC dailies btw). Otherwise Im just not gonna do it. Simple as that really.

VaranisArano · August 2021

BlueRaven wrote: »

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

You realize than all game are about that right ?
You want something ? Then you MUST do X, you don't want do X, then you don't get something.

If a single player game made players do things they don’t like, word gets around and players don’t buy it.

If a mmo game later on forces you into a quest you really don’t like, then offers an alternative to the reward by using real life money… That feels a lot like coercion.

Zos had a a myriad of ways to give out event tickets for that shiny new mount. As others have said they could have included IC dungeons, or made any of the first two dailies in any of the three zones give out tickets. Instead they made an ic daily, the most toxic pvp environment, a requirement. They knew exactly what were doing. They had alternatives and they chose the least popular one to implement to get people in that area.

midgetfromtheshire wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

dunno why ppl like op complain about pvp's event part..
if you don't like pvp then don't do it, that what I do, all fine.
Pvper play the game too, stop qqing about pvp in pvp zone, like wth ?!

Coercion is not a fun mechanic to implement in a game.

Except there isn't any coercion.

The poster above you thinks it is coercion as well, but a coercion that is somehow acceptable in games.

Making a player enter a PvP area for event tickets, or offering them the ticket for real life money as an alternative. It certainly feels like coercion.

You can either get 1 ticket from doing exclusively PvE or PvP, or do both for 2 tickets. You can choose to do one or the other, or do both. The event is purely optional so nothing like it is forcing you to participate.

The rules from what and where event tickets are distributed from was not mandated by some outside force beyond zos’s control.

Zos had the option of distributing them a myriad of ways. And they even could have, as an example, turned all of ic into a pve only area for the event, as an option.

And technically playing the game is optional. Having a computer is optional too. As is having money, or living in a house, or having a telephone. There are plenty of people living “off the grid” in Alaska that don’t even have electricity. So what exactly is your point? Does coercion not exist, ever? Is it a “fake” word?

They put a reward up (a mount) then made players go through one of the least popular content areas to get it. (Or they could pay up with real world cash.)

Nothing forced zos to implement this event activity in this manner.

And it’s not unpopular because of the activity itself, but because of the actions of other players.

And are we expecting this to happen without complaint? I mean, seriously?

Not to mention that ZOS has offered a PVE-only option ever other time they've run the Imperial City event: the WGT and ICP dungeons.

Now, that's a completely valid complaint! I like PVP, but I just don't understand why ZOS took away the previously offered option for PVE-only players. Now, there were always tons of complaints about the IC event even with a PVE-only safe option for tickets, but still. It was good for players to have that option.

It was definitely a choice by ZOS. I have a lot of sympathy for any PVE player who's demanding that they get the WGT/ICP safe option added back onto this event.