Wrong Event Name - It Should Be "Feed the Gankers!"

Toxic_Hemlock

I'll except the argument about only going into PvP areas (playgrounds) if you are there ONLY to PvP....

When on that day all PvPers only come into PvE and never duel. See how that works?

Until that day don't give me arguments about "when in my playground, it is my rules". [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Remathilis

BlueRaven wrote: »

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

This right here.

There is no PVE event that requires you to do trials or arenas for tickets. Undaunted dungeons can be done on normal which can be soloed in some cases. The most dangerous things those events ask are WB and world events, which are stupidly easy when everyone in town is doing them with you.

I could do the whole of Craglorn and Wrothgar in merchant bought white gear.

But I want that ticket in IC? Ok, now I need to farm up or buy a meta PvP set or three. I need to buy and morph PvP skill (possibly changing the morph I already use, which costs gold) all to just get a shot at not dying while I light ballistas on fire.

Meanwhile, Ganky McNightblade can use his PvP PC to hang out and soak a kill on a Wrothgar WB or run an easy as hell delve to get his PVE ticket. He didn't even have to change gear.

So spare me the PvPer outrage at doing PVE stuff for tickets until you're forced to run Sunspire or Vet Scalecaller for your tickets.

Veinblood1965

Shoot I'm happy as a clam this year. I just started PVPing a month or so ago. PVE'd for years and never once managed to kill anyone during this event, I always just died while doing my quests. Yesterday I was killing people all over the place it was quite a blast! I can see why the gankers love it, double telvar, sheep to the slaughter, what's not to like? I did let the low CP peeps have a pass when I saw them though.

VaranisArano

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....


If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.


During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

Players are being coerced into a zone they don’t want to be in. And are having a miserable time because of the actions of other players.
It’s difficult to find an appropriate correlation for pvp players doing the pve side of this event.

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

Any level 10 player can do that - and you only need level 10 because you have to queue for a PvPvE-enabled zone.


But for the players who are jumping into the Districts, you don't think that they maybe prepare themselves for what they are jumping into?

Some players will farm Imperial City bosses, then act shocked when its not the same as a PVE-only World Boss. Or try to quest in IC and then act shocked and appalled that it's more dangerous than questing in Glenumbra.

Those are the players for whom I'm of the opinion that taking some time and effort to prep would help the most. If you want the rewards that require going into a PvPvE zone - and these players do want those rewards - you should probably consider preparing for the risks. If you don't or won't, I can't say I'm surprised when you proceed to have a bad experience in content you didn't prepare for.


Or is it that it's "unfair" for players to have to prepare for event content during Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City, and potentially the Anniversary Event when they've gotten used to being able to roll into every other PVE themed event with zero prep?

I suppose that when every other PVE-themed event feels easy-peasy, it most be jarring to think "Wait, I actually need to put in some effort on this one?"

Remathilis

I think it would be hilarious if they made the next most-powerful PvP meta set a 9 trait craft set with bind-on-creation. All those PvP players would have to become Master Craftsmen. 😆😆

VaranisArano

Remathilis wrote: »

I think it would be hilarious if they made the next most-powerful PvP meta set a 9 trait craft set with bind-on-creation. All those PvP players would have to become Master Craftsmen. 😆😆

That moment when you think that some of us aren't already...

Most experienced PVPers do both PVP and PVE, and have spent enough time in game to have a master crafter.

On the other hand, I'm sure you weren't suggesting that every new player should be severely disadvantaged in PVP until they can spend the months that it takes to research 9 traits on five pieces, right?

ResidentContrarian

Remathilis wrote: »

I think it would be hilarious if they made the next most-powerful PvP meta set a 9 trait craft set with bind-on-creation. All those PvP players would have to become Master Craftsmen. 😆😆

A good portion of PvPers do not think sets should be the true deciding factor in matchup...instead the forums might be engulfed with complaints.

Darrett

By the way, this issue is much bigger than the event. PvP players assumably want people to get involved in PvP, right?

Having the barrier to entry so high that people need to acquire full specific armor sets and respec their existing character in order to avoid being 1 shot is counterproductive.

If you want people to participate, it can’t be as unapproachable as it is now. This isn’t to say a group won’t still roll up on an individual player and kill them quickly, but there’s a significant issue with survivability between the top and bottom end of the player base.

It’s equivalent to dropping all new players into a vet dungeon and telling them to figure it out, except that the encounters are randomized so you can’t methodically learn.

People won’t spend the time when their interaction with the content is that off-putting, and judging by how PvE players view it in this thread, it’s currently very off-putting.

BlueRaven

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....


If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.


During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

Players are being coerced into a zone they don’t want to be in. And are having a miserable time because of the actions of other players.
It’s difficult to find an appropriate correlation for pvp players doing the pve side of this event.

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

Any level 10 player can do that - and you only need level 10 because you have to queue for a PvPvE-enabled zone.


But for the players who are jumping into the Districts, you don't think that they maybe prepare themselves for what they are jumping into?

Some players will farm Imperial City bosses, then act shocked when its not the same as a PVE-only World Boss. Or try to quest in IC and then act shocked and appalled that it's more dangerous than questing in Glenumbra.

Those are the players for whom I'm of the opinion that taking some time and effort to prep would help the most. If you want the rewards that require going into a PvPvE zone - and these places do want those rewards - you should probably consider preparing for the risks. If you don't or won't, I can't say I'm surprised when you proceed to have a bad experience in content you didn't prepare for.


Or is it that it's "unfair" for players to have to prepare for event content during Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City, and potentially the Anniversary Event when they've gotten used to being able to roll into every other PVE themed event with zero prep?

I suppose that when every other PVE-themed event feels easy-peasy, it most be jarring to think "Wait, I actually need to put in some effort on this one?"

The “being level ten” issue is a whole separate problem with this event. And it is just highlighting how problematic these pvp events are.

And that dovetails into how your arguments highlight a major issue concerning pvp vs pve content. Pve content is not a one size fits all activity, it is separated by what the exact activity is.

Overland - easy.
Vet content - much much harder.
(And all the shades in between.)

Pve events tend to stay in the easier overland category.

(And let me fill you in on a little secret about pve. Most people don’t do any content outside of the easiest pve activities.)

Meanwhile, the IC PvP events are maximum difficulty only. There are no cyrodiil equivalent “scouting” missions or anything like that. (And as an aside I am curious about the whole level of preparedness you are claiming is required. Is there some “I win” gear players can wear? Or is there more to pvp then just gear. Because I can guarantee that most “prepared” solo pve players will still be losing these pvp fights.)

So yes, “actually need to put in some effort on this one” is a valid complaint. Particularly in the way zos structured the event. They could have chosen the three zones and said the first two dailies in any of them gets the players event tickets. Instead they made IC a requirement for one of the two tickets. It’s coercive for a pve player to be put in a very hostile pvp area against the players wishes. It’s not fun. Players will complain.

VaranisArano

Darrett wrote: »

By the way, this issue is much bigger than the event. PvP players assumably want people to get involved in PvP, right?

Having the barrier to entry so high that people need to acquire full specific armor sets and respec their existing character in order to avoid being 1 shot is counterproductive.

If you want people to participate, it can’t be as unapproachable as it is now. This isn’t to say a group won’t still roll up on an individual player and kill them quickly, but there’s a significant issue with survivability between the top and bottom end of the player base.

It’s equivalent to dropping all new players into a vet dungeon and telling them to figure it out, except that the encounters are randomized so you can’t methodically learn.

People won’t spend the time when their interaction with the content is that off-putting, and judging by how PvE players view it in this thread, it’s currently very off-putting.

So how do you want ZOS to train players to PVP?


Dropping players into the deep end isn't ideal, but let's be honest. Most of the players who throw themselves into the deep end chasing event tickets and other rewards aren't exactly availing themselves of the "shallow end" i.e. dueling with friends, Below 50 Cyrodiil, or Below 50 Battlegrounds to prepare themselves for PVP.

And sorry, but expecting to perform all content in a glass cannon PVE build doesn't mean there's a high barrier to entry. Sensible players change their gear when they change their role or even when they do a different dungeon/trial. Sure, ZOS could consider letting players have multiple saved "builds" that are easy to swap back and forth. But if wearing impenetrable gear or showing up with more than 25k health is insurmountable, I don't really know what to say. ZOS has even added more base critical resist to players to make the need for impenetrable gear less pressing.


Now, when I was learning to PVP, there was a lot of trial and error. The best way I learned was to find a PVP guild I liked, who were happy to train me to be a better PVPer. PvP is a lot more fun for me with a group, and I've heard that echoed by other PVE players when I led them in a PUG group.

Again, this is an option available to all players. Find a PVP guild you like, or if you want to dip your toes in a less serious environment, look for a social guild that does PVP events. Being in a positive, supportive group where everyone is working together is a great way for some folks to learn.

But that takes being willing to put in the time and effort to learn and practice, starting in the shallow end and working your way towards the deep end.


All analogies break down eventually, but if you've never gone swimming or you hate getting in the water, of course the deep end looks unapproachable. And if you've never practiced in the shallow end, it shouldn't be surprising when you flounder about when you jump into the deep end trying to get your event rewards.

BXR_Lonestar

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

They are certainly out in force now.

And they are getting lots of cheap kills!

I love playing my ganker in IC, but tbh, the only targets I'm hitting right now are targets of opportunity (wrong place/wrong time). For instance, I nailed a red who was camping outside of the Blue's sewer entrance/exit waiting to gank other blues. I love playing PVP, but with the event going on, I just want to get in, get my quest done, and get out.

Need to grind Malestrom hardcore while it is double drops because I need that GD lightning staff. I got my 7th bow last night

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

A workaround exploit is absolutely not the same as them limiting it to actually easy PvE content by design. You need to have dedicated an entire build and playstyle to do sewers at a normal playtime. And that requirement is absolutely NOT there for PvPers the other way around because no PvE event ticket has required the harder content.

Cyrodiil (huge map you can reasonably avoid people in alongside pve quests) and Battlegrounds (progress cannot be stopped) don't require dedication, but sewers do. Either to a stealth build or to a real pvp build. I already have a stealth toon anyway so it's no big deal to me, I always get them all done. But it's a bit disingenuous to compare the effort asked of PvE-ers to PvPers in terms of the sewers event. It's absolutely not the same.

"You only have to make a build if you actually want to play," isn't a persuasive argument. No such impediment exists for PvPers to do reasonably well at any of the events, by intentional design.

VaranisArano

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....


If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.


During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

Players are being coerced into a zone they don’t want to be in. And are having a miserable time because of the actions of other players.
It’s difficult to find an appropriate correlation for pvp players doing the pve side of this event.

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

Any level 10 player can do that - and you only need level 10 because you have to queue for a PvPvE-enabled zone.


But for the players who are jumping into the Districts, you don't think that they maybe prepare themselves for what they are jumping into?

Some players will farm Imperial City bosses, then act shocked when its not the same as a PVE-only World Boss. Or try to quest in IC and then act shocked and appalled that it's more dangerous than questing in Glenumbra.

Those are the players for whom I'm of the opinion that taking some time and effort to prep would help the most. If you want the rewards that require going into a PvPvE zone - and these places do want those rewards - you should probably consider preparing for the risks. If you don't or won't, I can't say I'm surprised when you proceed to have a bad experience in content you didn't prepare for.


Or is it that it's "unfair" for players to have to prepare for event content during Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City, and potentially the Anniversary Event when they've gotten used to being able to roll into every other PVE themed event with zero prep?

I suppose that when every other PVE-themed event feels easy-peasy, it most be jarring to think "Wait, I actually need to put in some effort on this one?"

The “being level ten” issue is a whole separate problem with this event. And it is just highlighting how problematic these pvp events are.

And that dovetails into how your arguments highlight a major issue concerning pvp vs pve content. Pve content is not a one size fits all activity, it is separated by what the exact activity is.

Overland - easy.
Vet content - much much harder.
(And all the shades in between.)

Pve events tend to stay in the easier overland category.

(And let me fill you in on a little secret about pve. Most people don’t do any content outside of the easiest pve activities.)

Meanwhile, the IC PvP events are maximum difficulty only. There are no cyrodiil equivalent “scouting” missions or anything like that. (And as an aside I am curious about the whole level of preparedness you are claiming is required. Is there some “I win” gear players can wear? Or is there more to pvp then just gear. Because I can guarantee that most “prepared” solo pve players will still be losing these pvp fights.)

So yes, “actually need to put in some effort on this one” is a valid complaint. Particularly in the way zos structured the event. They could have chosen the three zones and said the first two dailies in any of them gets the players event tickets. Instead they made IC a requirement for one of the two tickets. It’s coercive for a pve player to be put in a very hostile pvp area against the players wishes. It’s not fun. Players will complain.

Yeah, players have been complaining for years about being expected to head into PvPvE zones for event tickets and event rewards since the first Midyear Mayhem.

The Devs didn't exactly forget that some players don't enjoy it and that it requires greater effort for players to kill IC World Bosses for loot than it does to kill a Wrothgar boss.

Complain away, if you like. I don't expect the Devs to stop putting event rewards in PvPvE zones.


I've said this before, but WGT/ICP dungeons really should have been available as an option for event tickets like they were during past Imperial City events. Of course, that wouldn't have helped the players who want to get bonus Tel Var or kill the IC bosses for the event rewards without putting in any extra effort. As I very clearly said, you can get the event tickets from IC with zero risk of PVP. So at this point, it's complaining about the other non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City, like it's terribly unfair that the Devs might put rewards behind an activity that's harder than the average overland delve/normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Sorry, but I don't think its a valid complaint that you "might actually have to put some effort in" to gain non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City like double IC daily boxes, double Tel Var, double hakeijo from nodes, and bonus loot from the Imperial City bosses. If you want those rewards, you have to play Imperial City as the Devs intended. That's not "unfair."

VaranisArano

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

A workaround exploit is absolutely not the same as them limiting it to actually easy PvE content by design. You need to have dedicated an entire build and playstyle to do sewers at a normal playtime. And that requirement is absolutely NOT there for PvPers the other way around because no PvE event ticket has required the harder content.

Cyrodiil (huge map you can reasonably avoid people in alongside pve quests) and Battlegrounds (progress cannot be stopped) don't require dedication, but sewers do. Either to a stealth build or to a real pvp build. I already have a stealth toon anyway so it's no big deal to me, I always get them all done. But it's a bit disingenuous to compare the effort asked of PvE-ers to PvPers in terms of the sewers event. It's absolutely not the same.

"You only have to make a build if you actually want to play," isn't a persuasive argument. No such impediment exists for PvPers to do reasonably well at any of the events, by intentional design.

ZOS knows about the Arena daily and hasn't said or done a thing about it. So while I'm somewhat philosophically opposed to using it myself, I'm happy to point other players to it if it helps them have a better experience.


Where I struggle with the whole "But we don't have to work this hard for other event rewards" is that it's focusing more on how much effort you have to put in rather than whether you are playing the game as the Devs intended.

The Devs designed IC as PvPvE. "While exploring and fighting your way through the Imperial City, be prepared to face not only Molag Bal's forces, but also enemy players from the opposing alliances."

So what this amounts to is saying "The Devs should never design event rewards that expect PVEers to put in the effort to play PvPvE zones as intended."

Events aren't uniform in difficulty. So much of this "but the PvPvE events are difficult for me" seems to come down to normalizing PVE as the only real form of ESO's content, then complaining when PvPvE is also treated as a valid form of content for ESO that players ought to be willing to casually play if they want event rewards.

Judging by past events, ZOS seems to think that most players should be willing to experience Cyrodiil/Battlegrounds and Imperial City two to three times a year if they want all the event rewards. This is reasonable for a game that features both PVE, PvPvE, and PVP content. It's reasonable for a game that balances PVP and PVE together, and takes advice from experienced player representatives who play both PVE and PVP. It's not nice to say this, but it's reasonable for ESO to feature PvPvE zones in events even when they know it doesn't appeal to 100% of players.


I don't think its reasonable to ask that PvPvE zones should never feature exclusive rewards or be featured in events simple because it's going to require more effort from PVE-only players to play them as the Devs intended. That may not be where you were going with this, but it's certainly the end point of that argument for many players.

Lady_Galadhiel

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....


If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.


During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

Players are being coerced into a zone they don’t want to be in. And are having a miserable time because of the actions of other players.
It’s difficult to find an appropriate correlation for pvp players doing the pve side of this event.

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

Any level 10 player can do that - and you only need level 10 because you have to queue for a PvPvE-enabled zone.


But for the players who are jumping into the Districts, you don't think that they maybe prepare themselves for what they are jumping into?

Some players will farm Imperial City bosses, then act shocked when its not the same as a PVE-only World Boss. Or try to quest in IC and then act shocked and appalled that it's more dangerous than questing in Glenumbra.

Those are the players for whom I'm of the opinion that taking some time and effort to prep would help the most. If you want the rewards that require going into a PvPvE zone - and these places do want those rewards - you should probably consider preparing for the risks. If you don't or won't, I can't say I'm surprised when you proceed to have a bad experience in content you didn't prepare for.


Or is it that it's "unfair" for players to have to prepare for event content during Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City, and potentially the Anniversary Event when they've gotten used to being able to roll into every other PVE themed event with zero prep?

I suppose that when every other PVE-themed event feels easy-peasy, it most be jarring to think "Wait, I actually need to put in some effort on this one?"

The “being level ten” issue is a whole separate problem with this event. And it is just highlighting how problematic these pvp events are.

And that dovetails into how your arguments highlight a major issue concerning pvp vs pve content. Pve content is not a one size fits all activity, it is separated by what the exact activity is.

Overland - easy.
Vet content - much much harder.
(And all the shades in between.)

Pve events tend to stay in the easier overland category.

(And let me fill you in on a little secret about pve. Most people don’t do any content outside of the easiest pve activities.)

Meanwhile, the IC PvP events are maximum difficulty only. There are no cyrodiil equivalent “scouting” missions or anything like that. (And as an aside I am curious about the whole level of preparedness you are claiming is required. Is there some “I win” gear players can wear? Or is there more to pvp then just gear. Because I can guarantee that most “prepared” solo pve players will still be losing these pvp fights.)

So yes, “actually need to put in some effort on this one” is a valid complaint. Particularly in the way zos structured the event. They could have chosen the three zones and said the first two dailies in any of them gets the players event tickets. Instead they made IC a requirement for one of the two tickets. It’s coercive for a pve player to be put in a very hostile pvp area against the players wishes. It’s not fun. Players will complain.

Yeah, players have been complaining for years about being expected to head into PvPvE zones for event tickets and event rewards since the first Midyear Mayhem.

The Devs didn't exactly forget that some players don't enjoy it and that it requires greater effort for players to kill IC World Bosses for loot than it does to kill a Wrothgar boss.

Complain away, if you like. I don't expect the Devs to stop putting event rewards in PvPvE zones.


I've said this before, but WGT/ICP dungeons really should have been available as an option for event tickets like they were during past Imperial City events. Of course, that wouldn't have helped the players who want to get bonus Tel Var or kill the IC bosses for the event rewards without putting in any extra effort. As I very clearly said, you can get the event tickets from IC with zero risk of PVP. So at this point, it's complaining about the other non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City, like it's terribly unfair that the Devs might put rewards behind an activity that's harder than the average overland delve/normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Sorry, but I don't think its a valid complaint that you "might actually have to put some effort in" to gain non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City like double IC daily boxes, double Tel Var, double hakeijo from nodes, and bonus loot from the Imperial City bosses. If you want those rewards, you have to play Imperial City as the Devs intended. That's not "unfair."

I dont think that most people who complain actually care for double rewards in IC,they just want their ticket and get out.
And on the other hand,PvP'ers dont have to put in any extra effort to get double briarheart loot from stuff in wrothgar nor any extra effort to loot double alchemy plants or potent nirn in craglorn.
Taking in fact that a lot of people have only a certain amount of time to play each day and they already have a hard job to keep their pve toons up to date,just making people grind pvp gear,possible respecing their character skills and cp or creating a pvp toon just for events is asking too much imo,specially while pvp players can complete any pve event related stuff in their pvp gear and the activities without having to worry of not being able to complete it.

And yes,I know Arena district is ''safe'' to do but not everyone knows about it,only people who read forums or get it told by someone.

vamp_emily

Gadget4 wrote: »

Zeni opened more servers prior to the event starting .. I had to laugh when I saw the divide ...

1st server
AD 3 bar
EP 0 bar
DC 0 bar

2nd server
AD 0 bar
EP 3 bar
DC 0 bar

3rd server
AD 0 bar
EP 0 bar
DC 3 bar

I'm sure all those players fought against faction locked campaigns. Their argument, "We want to help the underpopulated faction".

Kadraeus

Darrett wrote: »

By the way, this issue is much bigger than the event. PvP players assumably want people to get involved in PvP, right?

Having the barrier to entry so high that people need to acquire full specific armor sets and respec their existing character in order to avoid being 1 shot is counterproductive.

If you want people to participate, it can’t be as unapproachable as it is now. This isn’t to say a group won’t still roll up on an individual player and kill them quickly, but there’s a significant issue with survivability between the top and bottom end of the player base.

It’s equivalent to dropping all new players into a vet dungeon and telling them to figure it out, except that the encounters are randomized so you can’t methodically learn.

People won’t spend the time when their interaction with the content is that off-putting, and judging by how PvE players view it in this thread, it’s currently very off-putting.

This is the truth right here, and I've been saying it for quite a while. At this point, I don't care all that much since I have no real intention of doing PvP outside events. However, when I see other PvErs complaining about it, I empathize. It is a fact that the barrier to entry for PvP is just too high, since your experience will pretty much just be 100% deaths and 0% kills until you get decent gear. I and many other people aren't complaining about "gEtTiNg KiLlEd In A pVp ZoNe." When I started PvP, I expected to suck at first like in every game. The problem is that in other games, even if you suck at first, you can still defend yourself against other players or even kill a player once in a while. In ESO PvP, you not only suck at first, but you're also completely useless. You're like the grunts from Halo trying to fight Master Chief and getting killed instantly with an elbow to the face.

Between my first and second MYM, I got slightly better gear and was then able to at least survive a little longer and occasionally kill a player or two if I got lucky. But I know for a fact that this wasn't because I was more skilled in PvP than before. I hadn't played PvP since the last MYM since I was sick of it. I'm not even exaggerating when I say that I hated it. When I play any PvP game for the first time, there's usually a bit of anxiety I experience that goes away over time once I figure out what I'm doing. After my first MYM and my first ESO PvP experience in general, however, this feeling didn't go away. It got worse (please don't reply to this with a, "Just don't take it seriously lol." if I could just flip a switch and turn off this feeling, that would be nice, but that isn't how it works. I'm also not blaming the game for this feeling, but rather explaining part of the reason for why I hated it). It was only really after my second attempt at PvP where I wasn't quite as useless, that I started to care less about it and actually kind of enjoy PvP. Still, when I run into groups of enemies who kill me in 2 hits, or enemies camping near the daily quest givers in Cyrodiil, that really makes it difficult for me to want to come back to PvP.

The way I see it, I just don't understand the fact that a PvE event forces you to go to a PvP zone just to do PvE. Even MYM primarily requires you to do PvE unless you do Battlegrounds, and that's considered a PvP event. I'd understand the whole "Come to a PvP zone, expect PvP" mantra if the event sent us to these zones specifically to do PvP. Like, if the whole event required doing PvP, I wouldn't take part in it. But it's because I don't technically have to do PvP that I even do it. On one hand, I do get it in the sense that it adds more people to PvP when otherwise people seem to refer to it as a ghost town. Still.

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

So what this amounts to is saying "The Devs should never design event rewards that expect PVEers to put in the effort to play PvPvE zones as intended."

No. It isn't. That's an extremely bad faith take. It is saying that content that requires dedicated builds should not be required to get tickets, not that people should be able to get tickets without actually playing IC correctly. YOU are the only one that brought up doing IC in a way not intended, by claiming an exploit is the same thing as having PVE events not exclude players by design. Pointing out the flaw in that argument does NOT amount to advocating for being able to play IC in a way that was not intended.

Sewers shouldn't be required to get tickets, just like Vet Arenas or Vet trials in dlc zones shouldn't be required. They can be included in events as optional activities like the double rewards in VMA right now. But they shouldn't be mandatory for tickets.

Content that requires a player to have an entire dedicated playstyle to that activity is absolutely not the same thing as content that everyone can do. You can give tickets for those things, but there should also be ticket option for people who don't have a build dedicated to that activity. Like in the past when you could do IC dungeons, or the way delve and world boss quests award tickets.

kargen27

Iluvrien wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

The other thing to consider is that players who don't know how to PVP effectively or aren't built for PVP aren't likely to be capable of a "good fight." It takes some practice to survive a gank and then to turn the tables on your attacker. Players who haven't or who don't want to put in the time for that practice face a very steep learning curve right now. And I don't think there's any way to get around that - if the only time players PVP is casually during MYM and the IC events, then it's pretty hard to practice the type of skills, situational awareness, and reflexes that help turn a "cheap kill" into a "good fight."

And this paragraph here is why there should be a PvE and PvP way of earning maximum tickets for each event.

Come on ZOS, really let people play how they want.

You can play how you want. You might miss out on a daily reward though. The point of these events is to get players to do things they might normally not do. At least it is a PvE daily in a PvP zone. They can be accomplished without ever engaging an enemy player.

Then it isn’t how you want. Support for both play styles would be equitable rather than enforced engagement.

For whose good is it to get players “to do things they might normally not do”?

I have hated it in every game in which I have either taken part in PK or PvP since these things were text based. It feels astonishingly condescending on ZOS’ part for them to continue suggesting that if I try it, again, on the basis of their contrived encouragement, that I just might like it this time.

And this is speaking as someone who only needs the Craglorn/Wrothgar dailies to accomplish all I need to this time. I don’t need IC at all. It is just a crappy move.

Support for both play styles by eliminating one of those playstyles? You are not forced to engage. You can avoid enemy players in a variety of ways. Sometimes you can't. When that happens to me on my 2nd account I just accept I am about
to die, spawn and try to get to my objective again.

How does it eliminate a play style? I literally asked for both to be supported in each event, rather than one over another.

kargen27 wrote: »

it is good for the game to entice players to try things they might not normally do. I know several players who would have never tried PvP without some kind of encouragement that decided they liked PvP. New players joining in on all aspects of the game is good for the long term health of the game. You might not like it and that is fine. Others may come to like it and that is also fine. Either way players get to play how they want.

If the only way that they can provide some kind of encouragement to try something different is by FOMO'ing their way through a game-wide event then I believe they need to rethink things.

I don't need encouragement to try, again, something that I already know I detest.

Others might benefit from the encouragement. As I said early I know many players who now enjoy PvP that would not have ventured there without some form of encouragement/incentive.

VaranisArano

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

So let me get this straight... For all the Pvers whos complaining that they're getting killed by gankers in IC during this event....


If I come to your PvE guild and ask to join your core group so that I can get completions in DLC vTrials.... so that I can get the skins and all the goodies... are you going to ask me for my latest parse screenshot to prove that I can hold my weight first? Are you going to force me to waste precious pots on a DPS parse dummy so that I can satisfy the prerequisites? You want to vet me out first by proving myself to you and the guild...

I come to your playground.. I must follow your rules... your prerequisites...

You come to my playground.. you gotta play by my rules... Tired of getting 1 shot? Come to IC prepared next time.. don't be prancing around with your trial gear... that vMA /Medusa inferno staff isn't going to kill me.

You enter PvP grounds... learn how to PvP... Don't complain on the forums that you're getting 1 shot.

Do you think all the pve players complaining here are in trial groups? Honestly, do you really believe that?

I think players who have access to vet trial gear that can deal serious damage are not the ones complaining about being ganked.

It's an analogy.

If an inexperienced PVEer wanted to join a trial guild, they'd be expected to prepare themselves before they did serious content, right?

In fact, we see this a lot even with Vet dungeons, where the segment of players who's all "It's just a game, not a job, I'm not going to read guides, why are you complain when I'm not following mechanics..." runs into the segment of players who are more like "You should be prepared to do Veteran before you run Vet Content, or at least you need to try." There's some debate there about how much preparation you need, but few people argue that things are more likely to go wrong the less prepared you are.


During Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City and even the Anniversary Event, there are a lot of PVE players who hop into PVP-enabled zones without preparation, expecting it to be something they can casually jump into, get quick event tickets, and leave without needing to adjust their build, skills, or expectations. Predictably, they get mauled.

Now, there are guides for how to do Imperial City Dailies and Midyear Mayhem. I wrote some of them. Mine are geared towards preparing Non-PVPers for what happens in PvPvE zones. I've been there as a new player trying to learn to PVP and getting mauled, so it's worth it to me to pass on what I learned that made my experience better as I got more experience.

But that doesn't do much for the players who don't (or won't) prepare for PVP, who jump into Imperial City armed with their designed-for-PVE builds that might as well be glass-without-the-cannon to any properly prepared PVPer. It doesn't do much for the players who have expectations of quick event tickets or who think that, contrary to all marketing of the event and zone, they should get their tickets and loot with no interference from other players.

At a certain point, guides only help those who want to help themselves.

And while I sympathize with those who don't like PVP - that used to be me, after all - I struggle sometimes when people who don't or won't prepare for PVP end up getting mauled during an event in a PvPvE zone. I feel a little like I'm setting out water for a horse who doesn't want to drink, and then is complaining that it's thirsty.

(This year's guide: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

It is interesting that you are assuming a level of dedication is required to do this event. What gear do players need to kill world bosses in wrothgar? Can a level 5 player do the quests in “white” gear for the tickets? Can other players stop this level 5?

Players are being coerced into a zone they don’t want to be in. And are having a miserable time because of the actions of other players.
It’s difficult to find an appropriate correlation for pvp players doing the pve side of this event.

You don't have to have any dedication to do this event. You can literally get your Imperial City Event Ticket by stealthing out on the spawn tower of the Arena District and letting other players kill the daedra near you. Zero combat or prep required.

Any level 10 player can do that - and you only need level 10 because you have to queue for a PvPvE-enabled zone.


But for the players who are jumping into the Districts, you don't think that they maybe prepare themselves for what they are jumping into?

Some players will farm Imperial City bosses, then act shocked when its not the same as a PVE-only World Boss. Or try to quest in IC and then act shocked and appalled that it's more dangerous than questing in Glenumbra.

Those are the players for whom I'm of the opinion that taking some time and effort to prep would help the most. If you want the rewards that require going into a PvPvE zone - and these places do want those rewards - you should probably consider preparing for the risks. If you don't or won't, I can't say I'm surprised when you proceed to have a bad experience in content you didn't prepare for.


Or is it that it's "unfair" for players to have to prepare for event content during Midyear Mayhem, Imperial City, and potentially the Anniversary Event when they've gotten used to being able to roll into every other PVE themed event with zero prep?

I suppose that when every other PVE-themed event feels easy-peasy, it most be jarring to think "Wait, I actually need to put in some effort on this one?"

The “being level ten” issue is a whole separate problem with this event. And it is just highlighting how problematic these pvp events are.

And that dovetails into how your arguments highlight a major issue concerning pvp vs pve content. Pve content is not a one size fits all activity, it is separated by what the exact activity is.

Overland - easy.
Vet content - much much harder.
(And all the shades in between.)

Pve events tend to stay in the easier overland category.

(And let me fill you in on a little secret about pve. Most people don’t do any content outside of the easiest pve activities.)

Meanwhile, the IC PvP events are maximum difficulty only. There are no cyrodiil equivalent “scouting” missions or anything like that. (And as an aside I am curious about the whole level of preparedness you are claiming is required. Is there some “I win” gear players can wear? Or is there more to pvp then just gear. Because I can guarantee that most “prepared” solo pve players will still be losing these pvp fights.)

So yes, “actually need to put in some effort on this one” is a valid complaint. Particularly in the way zos structured the event. They could have chosen the three zones and said the first two dailies in any of them gets the players event tickets. Instead they made IC a requirement for one of the two tickets. It’s coercive for a pve player to be put in a very hostile pvp area against the players wishes. It’s not fun. Players will complain.

Yeah, players have been complaining for years about being expected to head into PvPvE zones for event tickets and event rewards since the first Midyear Mayhem.

The Devs didn't exactly forget that some players don't enjoy it and that it requires greater effort for players to kill IC World Bosses for loot than it does to kill a Wrothgar boss.

Complain away, if you like. I don't expect the Devs to stop putting event rewards in PvPvE zones.


I've said this before, but WGT/ICP dungeons really should have been available as an option for event tickets like they were during past Imperial City events. Of course, that wouldn't have helped the players who want to get bonus Tel Var or kill the IC bosses for the event rewards without putting in any extra effort. As I very clearly said, you can get the event tickets from IC with zero risk of PVP. So at this point, it's complaining about the other non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City, like it's terribly unfair that the Devs might put rewards behind an activity that's harder than the average overland delve/normal Fungal Grotto 1.

Sorry, but I don't think its a valid complaint that you "might actually have to put some effort in" to gain non-ticket event rewards exclusive to Imperial City like double IC daily boxes, double Tel Var, double hakeijo from nodes, and bonus loot from the Imperial City bosses. If you want those rewards, you have to play Imperial City as the Devs intended. That's not "unfair."

I dont think that most people who complain actually care for double rewards in IC,they just want their ticket and get out.
And on the other hand,PvP'ers dont have to put in any extra effort to get double briarheart loot from stuff in wrothgar nor any extra effort to loot double alchemy plants or potent nirn in craglorn.
Taking in fact that a lot of people have only a certain amount of time to play each day and they already have a hard job to keep their pve toons up to date,just making people grind pvp gear,possible respecing their character skills and cp or creating a pvp toon just for events is asking too much imo,specially while pvp players can complete any pve event related stuff in their pvp gear and the activities without having to worry of not being able to complete it.

And yes,I know Arena district is ''safe'' to do but not everyone knows about it,only people who read forums or get it told by someone.

Again, that's a difference between "putting in extra effort" vs "playing the zone as the Devs intended."

Players playing Wrothgar as intended get the event rewards.
Players playing Imperial City as intended get the event rewards.

It's just that the Devs designed those two zones differently. To quote the Launch Details, Imperial City was designed for "Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets. But be on your guard—enemy Alliance members lurk around every corner throughout the Imperial Districts and Sewers. Should you fall to an enemy player, they can claim your hard-earned Tel Var Stones in their own quest for glory."

Is it "unfair" to expect players to play Imperial City as intended in order to get the non-ticket exclusive event rewards?

No. It's not. In every form of content, easy or hard, you have to play as intended if you want the rewards.

It's only when players who avoid the PvPvE portion of ESO's content start tallying up the effort it'll take for them to do Imperial City as intended vs doing the PVE-only zones they are already prepared for that they start saying it's "unfair" that Imperial City is harder by design than Wrothgar.

Events like this really go to show that PVE-only is not the Devs' ideal playstyle. They keep having events that encourage players to be willing to casually PVP for event rewards.

TequilaFire

Remathilis wrote: »

I think it would be hilarious if they made the next most-powerful PvP meta set a 9 trait craft set with bind-on-creation. All those PvP players would have to become Master Craftsmen. 😆😆

No problem as I may be a mostly a PvP player but I am a master craftsmen and master angler to boot!
Stop with the stereotypes please.

Lady_Galadhiel

VaranisArano wrote: »

Events like this really go to show that PVE-only is not the Devs' ideal playstyle. They keep having events that encourage players to be willing to casually PVP for event rewards.

Then they would need to do it different and not making players feel they are ''forced'' into it because of FOMO.
If they want to make PvP more attracktive to the players this isn not the right way to do it,first they would need to fix bugs and lags in IC and Cyrodiil,that would be a great start imo so Cyrodiil could handle more players and big fights.
In my opinion,IC isnt the right place to get people into PvP because of its designe.

ResidentContrarian

Don't tell anyone, but I use my PvE builds in PvP.

TequilaFire

And I use my PvP builds in PvE. lmao

TwinLamps

No.
Event name should be:
HA HA YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE ACCOUNT
WELL [words used to hurt some people] YOU IN PARTICULAR.

This is how I feel about every event
5 accounts and regretting

kargen27

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Events like this really go to show that PVE-only is not the Devs' ideal playstyle. They keep having events that encourage players to be willing to casually PVP for event rewards.

Then they would need to do it different and not making players feel they are ''forced'' into it because of FOMO.
If they want to make PvP more attracktive to the players this isn not the right way to do it,first they would need to fix bugs and lags in IC and Cyrodiil,that would be a great start imo so Cyrodiil could handle more players and big fights.
In my opinion,IC isnt the right place to get people into PvP because of its designe.

This is one event. Other events entice players to visit Cyrodiil and try a battleground or two. The vents scattered throughout the year include a variety of content to get us to try new things and/or visit places we might not have been in a while.

You are correct that PvP needs attention to make it better. Lag and bugs are a problem. That is a separate issue. Most people complaining about this event are not complaining about performance. They are complaining about being attacked.

VaranisArano

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Events like this really go to show that PVE-only is not the Devs' ideal playstyle. They keep having events that encourage players to be willing to casually PVP for event rewards.

Then they would need to do it different and not making players feel they are ''forced'' into it because of FOMO.
If they want to make PvP more attracktive to the players this isn not the right way to do it,first they would need to fix bugs and lags in IC and Cyrodiil,that would be a great start imo so Cyrodiil could handle more players and big fights.
In my opinion,IC isnt the right place to get people into PvP because of its designe.

Why would they?

Lots of players are willing to PVP casually for event rewards right now. It doesn't really matter to ZOS if you PVP casually while enjoying yourself or if you grit your teeth and do it for the rewards. Either way, lots of players are getting the casual experience in PVP that ZOS benefits from.

From ZOS's perspective, FOMO is doing exactly what they want.


The issue with "they need to make PVP more attractive" is that for a certain segment of players, the only way to do that is to make it...not PVP.

Leaving aside pleas for PVE-only, safe, copied zones with identical rewards with none of the intended risk, ESO can't make it so that Cyrodiil, Imperial City or Battlegrounds are a place where a PVE-only player who's wearing their gear intended for PVE content can be on an even footing with an experienced PVPer. It doesn't help when PVE-only players avoid the "training grounds" for PVP like dueling, Below 50 Cyrodiil or Below 50 BGs.

At a certain point, there isn't anything that can make PVP attractive to a player who hates PVP. And for those players, it's important to understand that just because they don't like that portion of the content, it doesn't make that content less valid or important to ESO as a whole game. The Devs don't cater to an exclusively PVE-only playstyle - if you want all the rewards, you have to play all of the game.

geonsocal

quick tip - try to use the doors to the sides when going between district zones...the doors in the middle are easy for enemies to camp going in or out...

kamimark

What baffles me is that the (5% of the players) PVPers must normally have as terrible a time as the (95% of the players) PVEers do now. ESO is a bad game for PVP, and gets worse every time they make an update to grouping, proc sets, etc. There's a thousand other PVP shooter games much better designed for them.

So go. Leave. Play Fallout'76 or [games by other companies]. Get them to shut down the PVP servers entirely. Then everyone's happy.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

[snip]

Build for stealth or build for some survival or strength in numbers and this is simply not an issue. If you cant go 2 feet without getting ganked in IC, your combat and or social skills need improvement.

These posts are exhausting...
[edited for baiting]