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Update 30 Combat Preview
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Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »
to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. This will greatly lower the number of points required to get to a more optimal build
And you think the best moment to write this is after a 3-week-long-grind, yes?
I've been putting out warnings not to grind everywhere. They've even said to players directly and explicitly that they're considering further lowering passives weeks ago, shortly after FoA went to pts. This time, i can only blame players for grinding while the system hasn't been fleshed out tbh...
That could be solved by not releasing something till it is finished and tested.
True, but there will always be those who simply must race to the end, so when the "end" moves, they start racing again. I'm perfectly comfortable at 1500ish CP and was able to get everything I needed out of the CP system, so I didn't race for more. Others wouldn't be happy until they got to 3600.0 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...8 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am just glad to see ZOS officially recognizing that damage proc sets are 100% indeed "Free Damage". Looks like this is going to be a great patch for the PVP meta.1 -
icAirborne✭✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.Edited by icAirborne on April 16, 2021 3:14PM6 -
Faded✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It will all depend on the numbers, willing to try, but I worry that heal sets are going to be based of max health. In no other RPG system I have ever played (and we are going back a long time) did designers scale anything significant off health/hit points, for good reason.
Yeah. I'm not excited about set bonuses scaled off of max health, either. This is the same team that thought Thews and Crimson needed to exist. But so far this is a promising shift in direction. Interested to see what they do.Edited by Faded on April 16, 2021 3:16PM6 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭icAirborne wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.
That's still not very clear.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean to say is:
High CP players have enough CP to buy multiple slottables, and thus can swap them around in their four slots freely.
Low CP players don't have enough CP to buy all the slottables they need, and so they must pay 3k gold to buy different slottables when they need them, or they must do without some of the slottables they need.
Now, this is working as ZOS intends. The more CP you have, you earn more options for what goes into your 4 slots. However, no matter how many CP you have, you can only slot 4 of your slottable stars, so everyone with more than 4 slottables makes choices. And just like CP 1.0, if you want to change your CP distribution on the fly to unlock different configurations, you pay 3k.0 -
GreenHere✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How is it that this CP 2.0 system was reportedly in development for years, but somehow needs nerfing and nerfing and tweaking and nerfing and more nerfing in the first few months of its existence? What are y'all doin over there?
Between the changes to 2.0 over the course of the PTS, and now the upcoming changes before the system has even stopped feeling "new" yet... AND you announce this stuff RIGHT after two back-to-back XP events. It really kinda feels like y'all don't know what you're doing. Not to mention the (potentially) radical changes to sets that I, quite frankly, just don't have a lot of faith to be handled well.
ZOS, c'mon dudes... do better.
Even if (big "if") the overall changes end up being good on the whole, the timing/communication from the devs feels... bad. Tone-deaf & out of touch.
I really wish they'd stop deciding on these big changes for the game, then announcing them to us as if they're doing us huge favors, then letting us actually preview and test them. Would it really be so horrible to use the Test Server to, I don't know, actually test ideas before committing to the course of action? Then see the results, then announce what they're going to implement on Live after actual player testing has been done? Maybe I'm just off-base, but the whole process just seems so disordered and ineffective. Or not-as-effective-as-it-could-be.16 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It will all depend on the numbers, willing to try, but I worry that heal sets are going to be based of max health. In no other RPG system I have ever played (and we are going back a long time) did designers scale anything significant off health/hit points, for good reason.
Yeah. I'm not excited about set bonuses scaled off of max health, either. This is the same team that thought Thews and Crimson needed to exist. But so far this is a promising shift in direction. Interested to see what they do.
They mentioned that Heal procs will be scaling off Max Stam and Mag, not Health. Just that other types of procs will scale off health.1 -
ealdwin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It will all depend on the numbers, willing to try, but I worry that heal sets are going to be based of max health. In no other RPG system I have ever played (and we are going back a long time) did designers scale anything significant off health/hit points, for good reason.
Yeah. I'm not excited about set bonuses scaled off of max health, either. This is the same team that thought Thews and Crimson needed to exist. But so far this is a promising shift in direction. Interested to see what they do.
Reserving most of my judgement until I see the patch notes, and then I'll probably have more solid opinions on the application, but so far it sounds promising.
It all depends on whether the scaling is properly applied for the set. Having a set effect like Winter's Respite's heal scale off of Max Magicka makes a ton of sense—it's a light armor set with boosts to Magicka. Proper scaling might actually make the set more appealing in some regards to healers or solo'ers. Scaling the heal off of Max Health would just leave a question about who the set is even designed for. Improper scaling could in essence kill different sets.
I'm interested to see what the patch notes bring.2 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.
That's still not very clear.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean to say is:
High CP players have enough CP to buy multiple slottables, and thus can swap them around in their four slots freely.
Low CP players don't have enough CP to buy all the slottables they need, and so they must pay 3k gold to buy different slottables when they need them, or they must do without some of the slottables they need.
Now, this is working as ZOS intends. The more CP you have, you earn more options for what goes into your 4 slots. However, no matter how many CP you have, you can only slot 4 of your slottable stars, so everyone with more than 4 slottables makes choices. And just like CP 1.0, if you want to change your CP distribution on the fly to unlock different configurations, you pay 3k.
Which means the only real difference between high cp and low cp is a 3k tax. Which seems pretty underwhelming.2 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭NOTHING should scale with health. Not healing, not procs.
Stop promoting braindead HP sponges that are unkilleable, yet they provide utlity and/or kill potential through several means, that is exacerbated by poorly designed transformation ultimes like Goliath that are completly disruptive for gameplay.
Damage and healing should always scale from Magika/Stamina/Wpn-Spell Damage and modifiers. Health only function should be provide hit points.7 -
Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭Imagine Sets like Leeching and Crimson would scale with your max. health...
I will totally love fighting P2.... Wardens with high health and a set like crimson. Wardens are already massively op but there is the risk that people may play it in PvP whilst asleep!! My cocker spaniel can play warden already well in PvP
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Will be very interesting to see where sets like crimson and leeching fall on the scaling chart. Are they damage, so max damage, or healing, so max resource, or god-forbid, health scaling?
Improper scaling and misaligned 1-4 piece lines are going to ruin a ton of sets.
Monster sets like Zaan, etc. might become useless for pve.
etc.
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Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why do I get the feeling that the proc set nerf is going to end up being a buff that we’ll be stuck with for another 3+ months.
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Rhaegar75✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »
Indeed! I'm so fed up with Merciless Charge heroes applying 5000 DoTs with one click!!1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NOTHING should scale with health. Not healing, not procs.
Stop promoting braindead HP sponges that are unkilleable, yet they provide utlity and/or kill potential through several means, that is exacerbated by poorly designed transformation ultimes like Goliath that are completly disruptive for gameplay.
Damage and healing should always scale from Magika/Stamina/Wpn-Spell Damage and modifiers. Health only function should be provide hit points.
That's exactly what this says they will do:
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher."
The health scaling mention was for potentially other types of procs. But since they specified how Damage and Healing will be scaling, it follows that Damage and Healing will not scale off max Health.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.
That's still not very clear.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean to say is:
High CP players have enough CP to buy multiple slottables, and thus can swap them around in their four slots freely.
Low CP players don't have enough CP to buy all the slottables they need, and so they must pay 3k gold to buy different slottables when they need them, or they must do without some of the slottables they need.
Now, this is working as ZOS intends. The more CP you have, you earn more options for what goes into your 4 slots. However, no matter how many CP you have, you can only slot 4 of your slottable stars, so everyone with more than 4 slottables makes choices. And just like CP 1.0, if you want to change your CP distribution on the fly to unlock different configurations, you pay 3k.
Which means the only real difference between high cp and low cp is a 3k tax. Which seems pretty underwhelming.
High CP players can unlock all their passives, too. That does make a difference.
But yes, in terms of slottables, the big difference between high CP and low CP players is that a low CP player will either pay to swap points around to unlock stuff or do without. Once you hit enough points to have more than 4 slottables, anyway.Edited by VaranisArano on April 16, 2021 5:07PM0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭NOTHING should scale with health. Not healing, not procs.
Stop promoting braindead HP sponges that are unkilleable, yet they provide utlity and/or kill potential through several means, that is exacerbated by poorly designed transformation ultimes like Goliath that are completly disruptive for gameplay.
Damage and healing should always scale from Magika/Stamina/Wpn-Spell Damage and modifiers. Health only function should be provide hit points.
That's exactly what this says they will do:
"Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher."
The health scaling mention was for potentially other types of procs. But since they specified how Damage and Healing will be scaling, it follows that Damage and Healing will not scale off max Health.
you will have some sets that will scale of max health (harbringer for example), with skills that already scale form max health (artic blast, etc). NOTHING should scale for health,2 -
Starshadw✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
It will all depend on the numbers, willing to try, but I worry that heal sets are going to be based of max health. In no other RPG system I have ever played (and we are going back a long time) did designers scale anything significant off health/hit points, for good reason.
Yeah. I'm not excited about set bonuses scaled off of max health, either. This is the same team that thought Thews and Crimson needed to exist. But so far this is a promising shift in direction. Interested to see what they do.VaranisArano wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.
That's still not very clear.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean to say is:
High CP players have enough CP to buy multiple slottables, and thus can swap them around in their four slots freely.
Low CP players don't have enough CP to buy all the slottables they need, and so they must pay 3k gold to buy different slottables when they need them, or they must do without some of the slottables they need.
Now, this is working as ZOS intends. The more CP you have, you earn more options for what goes into your 4 slots. However, no matter how many CP you have, you can only slot 4 of your slottable stars, so everyone with more than 4 slottables makes choices. And just like CP 1.0, if you want to change your CP distribution on the fly to unlock different configurations, you pay 3k.
It's not about slottables - it's about passives. High CP folks can put more points into passives that boost tankiness, damage, and survivability, whereas lower CP folks don't have that same ability. And those passives may not really matter much out in PvE land, but you can bet your bottom dollar they are going to make a difference in PvP land.Edited by Starshadw on April 16, 2021 5:27PM0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
No, you just didn't read his comment correctly.
He means that low cp players have reset their cp and put points into slottables, while high cp players can just purchase everything a swap without resetting cp.2 -
Mr_Gallows✭✭✭I like CP 2.0. Havibg to pick four stars from each is great 🙂 Once it gets balanced it will be better.1
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itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cirantille wrote: »I'm really glad to hear that I can focus on playing the game rather than grinding cp, thank you
Unless you were trying to get a leader board score in a trail or arena grinding from 1300cp up to 17-1800 was a waste of playing time anyway. I regularly win PvP encounters with people who have 300-400 more CP than I do ( and I've also lost some to people that have a lot less than I do). And in the PS4 main campaign one of my guildies has been crowned Emp 3 times this week even though his CP is only in the mid 800's.0 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_BrianWheeler Does this mean proc sets will once again be able to crit, or is critical chance going to only function for non-proc damage? I ask because of the implications with Malacath's Band of Brutality, as well as the implications on build variety for crit-based classes like Nightblade. Thanks.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC0 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »icAirborne wrote: »The only extra “specialisation” that high cp players have now is whether or not they have to spend 3k gold to swap out a slottable star for another lmfao.
You are the second person on this thread to claim you have to pay to change which star is slotted. You don't. You have to pay to take points from one place and put them elsewhere, but you can switch which star (you have already unlocked) is slotted free of charge...
That's not what I was meaning at all. I'm saying that there is only one distinction between high cp players and low cp players, that being high cp players dont have to pay any gold to swap to most slottables since they will already have them unlocked, and that passive cp stars are now pretty much a controlled variable, taking away from any meaningful choices.
That's still not very clear.Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you mean to say is:
High CP players have enough CP to buy multiple slottables, and thus can swap them around in their four slots freely.
Low CP players don't have enough CP to buy all the slottables they need, and so they must pay 3k gold to buy different slottables when they need them, or they must do without some of the slottables they need.
Now, this is working as ZOS intends. The more CP you have, you earn more options for what goes into your 4 slots. However, no matter how many CP you have, you can only slot 4 of your slottable stars, so everyone with more than 4 slottables makes choices. And just like CP 1.0, if you want to change your CP distribution on the fly to unlock different configurations, you pay 3k.
Which means the only real difference between high cp and low cp is a 3k tax. Which seems pretty underwhelming.
High CP players can unlock all their passives, too. That does make a difference.
But yes, in terms of slottables, the big difference between high CP and low CP players is that a low CP player will either pay to swap points around to unlock stuff or do without. Once you hit enough points to have more than 4 slottables, anyway.
Yeah that was the point you were seeking clarification on. Once you hit enough points to have 4 slottables, there's really nothing to look forward to or work towards. You don't gain anything you didn't already have: you've reached the breadth of "horizontal progression" at that point.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on April 16, 2021 5:55PM0 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭"Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher" - also make healing skills scale with max stamina or magicka. This way the build has to be well rounded. You cannot invest all in WP and have op proc damage and op heals at the same time.1
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Styxius✭✭✭✭I do want to mention I hope we don't reduce the effectiveness of those Blue and Red CP's we'll see a decrease in Max HP and mitigation which in PvE we already take more damage, so with the nerfs to Preparation (would go down to 4%) And Aegis/Hardy going to 2% this leaves a lot of people even squishier including tanks becoming weaker. Idk I think it's not the greatest move as this can hurt a lot of people as we're just getting used to this system. If you intended to do this, we should've kept the curve at 1,200 not 1,800 in my opinion.8
