Update 30 Combat Preview

Seraphayel

Sleep724 wrote: »

So is there going to be any class balancing this year??

I‘m really looking forward to the patch notes where it’s three pages of class changes, but everything is We fixed an issue with...

SubparAesthetics

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but we really need to see Stamina DPS get some penetration help

FlukeTU

Sun7dance wrote: »

Imagine Sets like Leeching and Crimson would scale with your max. health...

I think it will seperate like Crimson damge scale with your Weapon/Spell damage while healing crimson scale with you max stam/mag instead of 100% damage done.

Pauls

How these changes will affect tank based on Leeching+Bahraha+Malubeth – the best tank build to do pug vets?

UntouchableHunter

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher.

It is nice that you are making proc sets to scale with something.

But...

You are running into the risk of giving high dmg builds very strong survivability by adding strong healing (as healing "proc sets" will scale max offensive stat).

This will create almost same scenario as we have now, expect people will run healing sets and spec for maximum dmg (while now people spec for very "tanky" spec and have dmg from "proc sets").

I honestly believe that "proc sets" that provide healing or dmg shields - should scale with maximum health and not offensive stat.

^ That way players will have to chose if they want to have high dmg output or high survivability. Making healing sets to scale with max offensive stat might be a mistake. As far as I remember we already had this kind of problem where dmg shields scaled off max magicka, providing huge survivability for a magicka stacking builds - and because of that it was extremely easy to have a build with huge dmg output, and also - very tanky.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

(Just to clarify: By healing proc sets, I mean sets that only heal, and do not deal dmg. Sets that deal dmg & heal you for % dmg should scale with offensive stat. But healing portion should scale off max health).

I agree. And in my opinion skills that heals should scale with health and never with weapon or spell dmg. You make a build for extreme dmg and your vigor heala you more then a healer...

Starlight_Whisper

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

So any race without max magicka is screwed over in balance for healers. 😑

A measly 800-2000 Magicka isn't going to impact your healing in any meaningful way. This is even more true since raw HPS is basically irrelevant to healer performance, it's more about keeping group buffs up and having good timing with what actual heals that you do use.

Depends on the gear scales. The problem is justice most races got something for stamina and magicka but what happened to redguard and bosmer this balance?

They need to realize the shifted race problem again.

silvereyes

Thank you to the developers for reducing the vertical progression grind. Removing two stages per Warfare tree passive seems quite significant.

To those who just spent three weeks grinding CP to get to the U29 vertical progression cap: um ... sorry. That sucks.

To those worried about their end game DPS taking another hit due to the passives changing: I suggest let's wait and see what things actually look like on PTS. They've already said that damage proc sets will get a buff due to the scaling changes, so that should help offset some. Remember, there's only about 20 sets that don't count as proc sets, according to ZOS.

There's also everything else from the patch notes that isn't explicitly mentioned here, any number of which could affect your DPS bottom line. The main thing that concerns me is the penetration passives, so I hope they've made up for those elsewhere.

Starlock

While I understand why these changes to "proc sets" are being made, they are tone deaf for a decent segment of the community.

Some of us use certain sets ("proc" or otherwise) because it fits the character concept we're trying to create, or simply because it's fun. We're not trying to get "free damage" or whatever and we've already made our "conscious build choice" using criteria that don't involve being a blasted min-maxing power gamer.

Judgement will be reserved until we see how impactful this is going to be as generally the team does good work. Based on past history, there is reason to be optimistic. But there were better solutions to this. Like finally separating blasted PvP from PvE entirely?

YandereGirlfriend

At this point, the passives have been nerfed so badly that it's kind of left me thinking, "What's the point of even having them?"

Take Eldritch Insight's 1040 Magicka and nerf it by half to get 520 Magicka. What even is the point of this? This is less Magicka than the Mage Guild 2% passives give you on nearly any build. It's not moving the needle in any direction.

This problem is exacerbated with the slottable stars like the ones for Max Magicka or Spell Damage. Untamed Aggression is giving me roughly the same amount of Spell Damage as a single glyph and we're supposed to spend 1/4 of our bar space on it, come on. Same situation for Arcane Supremacy and its measly 1300 Max Magicka.

Frankly, these are NOT compelling build choices and they do not promote build diversity or specialization. These values need to be tuned WAY UP in order to compete with a flat 10% for single-target damage, Critical Damage, etc. And yes, I mean tuned UP not nerfing the other stars down to their level of mediocrity.

ZOS developers are so afraid of giving the players any tiny snippet of power that they pre-emptively nerfed all of the uniqueness out of the CP system. You're asking us to paint rainbows with only a black and grey Crayon. Give us other colors! And give us reasons to USE those colors!

hands0medevil

BrownChicken wrote: »

Reducing the power of passive perks in CP in half looks very intimidating. What's the point?

the point is now that players crying on the forum about levels gap etc. can "enjoy playing game" and are not "forced to grind CP". Soon there will be no difference between 3600 CP players and 360 CP players, because CP trees will be so flattened. I know there are different aspects of the game: housing, harvesting, exploration, roleplaying but why players interested in end game PVE and PVP are constantly punished for making their best from the game you designed, dear ZOS?

It's a "combat change" for players mostly not even interested in combat.

WrathOfInnos

SubparAesthetics wrote: »

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but we really need to see Stamina DPS get some penetration help

How do you feel about losing 700 penetration from Piercing CP?

SilverKatz

Awesome changes , proc are stronger when u build for it .
Not even mentioning constantly dedicate on nerfing old players who been paying for years .

GG

geonsocal

oh great, more changes...can't wait to go spend even more time resetting 17 toons...yay...

Firstmep

SilverKatz wrote: »

Awesome changes , proc are stronger when u build for it .
Not even mentioning constantly dedicate on nerfing old players who been paying for years .

GG

I feel like you are missing the point of the proc scaling completely.
If the scaling is done right, simply equipping multiple procsets will mean their dmg is going to be much lower than now.
If you use let's a 5pc proc and a Stat set(hopefully) you will get the similar damage as now on your 1 proc.
All this is aiming to do is eliminate the ability to build very tanky thru high hp and get almost all your damage from procs, which has been the biggest issue IMHO.
I don't personally mind some high dmg magblade using calurion from cloak, Beacuse I know their build is going to be super squishy, but a magden fully loaded with winter born, zaan, vate destro can still be stupidly tanky right now due being able to build like 40k hp.

This change is aiming to force players to choose between having good dmg or survival/sustain.

Firstmep

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any chance you guys could make it so that malacaths band doesn't affect procsets? Ring of the place order already has that, so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
With crit chance so low in pvp right now, malacath is just such a no brainer major damage upgrade with virtually no downsides, even on non proc builds you can benefit from it massively.
Or just reduce the dmg increase it provide to be more in line with other sources of % increased damage.

Tranquilizer

While I appreciate the proc set change, I dislike the changes to cp.

The red and blue passives aren't very strong anyway, and cutting them by half isn't a good decision. Especially crit chance is a very important perk after the general crit nerf and should be kept.

Or make some of the passives slottable, but raise the blue slots to 6.

/Edit: Better and easier solution: Prevent Malacath from buffing Procsets.

FluffyBird

Can't wait to see actual numbers, but as someone who goes more for fun instead of min-maxing I'm worried about both CP and procs =/

Ekzorka

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher.

So, you suggest to rise stamina/magicka pool on a Tank to get some adequate (I'm sure you'll nerf it) numbers for a proc healing?
I using Cyrodiil Crest for an extra healing in dungeon tanking. I already trading off a group support for my survivability (and I also lost benefit of Stonekeeper set (no, it works horrible on trashpacks whatever you say in the patch notes)). Is it not enough?
You, Zos, said that players could choose a way how they can doing content. I found a 3 nice sets that were helping me when I learning to tank HM DLC dungeons in the past and now they helps me to compensate my unstable high ping. Why should I lose my build choose because of PvPers' complaints?
I don't believe you that this will be good for PvE.

Lughlongarm

Hi,

Will the new proc sets scaling calculation will replace the current damage/healing bonus modifiers scaling or will added to it?

Strider__Roshin

Firstmep wrote: »

I just wanna point out that I was the first one to suggest the proc scaling.
Thank you!

So you were suggesting that Skoria should scale off of max magicka/SD before 2016?

FinrodMacBeorn

I'm not amused that pvp balance is again the prime focus and pve balance has to pay the price (I'm doing both), instead of using battlespirit-like modifications to impact pvp only.

With proc sets scaling with spell/weapon damage, racial balance will become even worse than now. Currently, ressource races like Breton or Redguard (don't have enough experience with Bosmer etc.) are already about 4-5% behind other damage-focused races, as ressource management is trivial for Altmer et al. in the current implementation, and they do not have to pay a price for it.

This damage gap will increase even more if proc sets do more damage in pve for, e.g., an Altmer than a Breton due to racial passives. Are Bretons now a pure healer race? And what is with Redguards - reduced to tanks?

Yes, I know that I can "complete most content with 4-5% less damage", ... coming from the same people who squeeze out the last 0.5% of damage by minmaxing.

Knipskastenmann

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

With Update 30, we are continuing our dedication to this system by adding several new slotted stars for healing and support-focused builds. [...] We’ve also added a new and final sub-constellation (each tree can have up to 3) in the Warfare tree focused on healing, offering new slottable stars that support the healing playstyle, [...]

Yay, more slottables. I can't slot all stars I like to cause of too less slots available, but sure, even more to slot. And why have the stars of the healing subtree to be slotted, but the stars of the "damage" subtree don't?

To address these concerns, we are reducing the number of stages on passive stars in the Warfare and Fitness constellations by two more stages, to a maximum of 2 stages per passive star. [...], while also taking some of the power out of the high-end experience.

Why? Simply why?

Seraphayel

PvE content is so non-challenging in most areas (besides some very few vet trial or vet dungeon achievements), what can PvE players even lose by these changes? Like honestly, you won't be affected much overall as PvE is always static and doesn't change.

Firstmep

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I just wanna point out that I was the first one to suggest the proc scaling.
Thank you!

So you were suggesting that Skoria should scale off of max magicka/SD before 2016?

I guess I meant in this current proc meta

2016 was a very different time tho, thing like old viper tremor widow maker would put the current lineup to shame for sure.

Integral1900

And so once agin hybrids take a kick in the crotch.... How tediously predictable...

You can just imagine the conversation can’t you.

We have a crisis!

What crisis?

The 0.1% of the player base was still willing to put up the train wreck of PVP in this game don’t like proc sets. What will we do!?

Well we could minimise the effect through battle spirit, but I have a much better idea, let’s hit everyone else instead, including tanks that want to do solo content and players who enjoy unusual yet fun builds like hybrids, that will work!

But, but, you can still stack a huge amount of weapon or spell damage even on a rugged PVP build, depending on the class. Wouldn’t this mean that proc damage would actually go up in that instance?

Errrrr........





All I want is for my big, burly dk to swing a huge burning blade and set trash mobs on fire! Preferably shortly before they go whump and turn into a little pile of ash on the floor. Is that toooooo much to ask for! And no, pelinals is not an option, it might work in PVP where damage numbers are in single digits, but you take that into a normal dungeon and you might as well have gone in there with a feather duster!

snoozy

why is this post hidden in a subforum where most people won't see it, instead of putting it in general discussion??

Tommy_The_Gun

Starlock wrote: »

While I understand why these changes to "proc sets" are being made, they are tone deaf for a decent segment of the community.

Some of us use certain sets ("proc" or otherwise) because it fits the character concept we're trying to create, or simply because it's fun. We're not trying to get "free damage" or whatever and we've already made our "conscious build choice" using criteria that don't involve being a blasted min-maxing power gamer.

Judgement will be reserved until we see how impactful this is going to be as generally the team does good work. Based on past history, there is reason to be optimistic. But there were better solutions to this. Like finally separating blasted PvP from PvE entirely?

I am on same boat. While I understand that some "proc" sets are overturned and lead to creation of "broken" builds and often nerfs to things that on its own are fine, I also understand that there are some "good" proc sets.

For instance, I use Essence Thief on one of my builds and this kind of set (although it is considered as a proc - set) does nothing for free. You still need to deal dmg yourself and keep momentum & move strategically to take benefit from this set.
^ In case of niche sets like this, that can be very useful and fun to use, I kinda fear how scaling will look like.

Everest_Lionheart

Seraphayel wrote: »

PvE content is so non-challenging in most areas (besides some very few vet trial or vet dungeon achievements), what can PvE players even lose by these changes? Like honestly, you won't be affected much overall as PvE is always static and doesn't change.

The issue is that the harder stuff is getting farther out of reach. CP 2.0 made a lot of people significantly weaker in the mitigation department. We are forced to run shield and self heal for the hard modes and it doesn’t hurt to use whatever class skill you have for the extra resistance as well. Slotting the extra skills takes away from damage on top of the flat nerf to crit damage. There were mechanics I could just self heal through pre CP 2.0 that I can’t survive without my own shield, self heal, mitigation from a tank and HOTs from my healers. vAS is a nightmare for my core team right now. We have gone from nearly completing +2 to barely surviving +1.
Mona there is a chance that the lowered passive cost helps us build into mitigation sooner, but those passives look to be halved as well. Not sure 4% mitigation is going to push us back to where we were.

Grandchamp1989

Zos instead of nerfing the CP points (you've done this 2-3 times now) how about they offer the same value but require fewer points to reach the same value as of right now?

This will nerf everyones damage further..
PVE Tanks will be nerfed.. Again.
PVE Tank proc sets are getting nerfed... Doesn't look like Leeching & Crimson will be viable despite being HEAVY armor since it will scale with max dmg Same with Alkosh... Healer sets such as Winter's Respite, Battalion Defender etc will scale off of magicka (lowest ressource for tanks) so GG to that... How will this affect monster helmets? Will it be the same for that?

As for PVP people will go for max dmg most likely and get the full benefit of a heavy armor proc set to boost it further...
Doesn't seem like much will change there...

Why is every single patch a nerf?

Leonis3491

I play every day on Battlegrounds and i record Eso-log stat after each one.
I see how players are unkillable, they have a full défensive build with damage procsets, for exemple MagWarden with Zaan/Winterborn/BlackRose/Vateshran, and more than 35k health, or 50k health Harbinger StamNecro.
For them Healing are done with skills and natural health regen not procset.
Most of compétitive players on bgs are playing this type of build.

Nerfing procsets will result on Nerfing on All Damage done during bgs and so all deaths. This will just make infinite and boring battle...