How are you feeling about 50% of your XP earned being unceremoniously deleted for Update 29's CP 2.0

barney2525

PrinceDamien wrote: »

Shoulda gone with Clint Eastwood from Heartbreak Ridge

Nebthet78

I'll be speaking with my wallet this entire year. No DLCs. No Chapter. No ESO+ No! No! No! NO! NO! NO!!!!"

spacewolfplays

remosito wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You are losing nothing. There is a mechanic in place that will allow new players to catch up quicker. And if you've had fun playing the game the CP doesn't matter anyway just keep on having fun.

except I wont. was able to dual purpose my chars (all tanks or healers who do solo/pvp) at least a bit before. can't anymore.

I could actually if my full Xp were counted and I was cp 1900 instead of still 1200...

OMG I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF THAT.

I have so many characters that are dual purpose.... ughhhhhhhhhhh. this sucks. Maybe i'll turn my main who is also my fully researched crafter into my harverster (goodbye sweet elfboy), and my harverster will be come my main nightblade? ugh this sucks. Also pretty much all my mains were dual PvE & PvP.

Grianasteri

I am feeling like, after 5+ years invested in playing a game, I should no longer have to be grinding my established characters again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, just to keep them performing anywhere near their max potential.

You can have too much change you know. That said, the new CPs system does look better on the face of it, not having used it yet. So my issue is not with the CP changes per se.

But a period of settled peace would be most welcome. STOP forcing players to grind and regrind every few months, stop changing things that force this upon players.

Universe

Too bad that ZOS have not acted on the feedback provided regarding this issue.
They should have converted the total experience earned to champion points in the new system.
The new champion system is more of an horizontal progression anyway, converting total experience to champion points would have done no harm.
This is a total disregard of veteran players.

What's stopping ZOS of making a new cap 5-7 years from now with 7200 as max CP ?
Nothing.
Then it will be the same story all over again with current players losing experience because of a new curve.


This reminds of this:

AlnilamE

spacewolfplays wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

You are losing nothing. There is a mechanic in place that will allow new players to catch up quicker. And if you've had fun playing the game the CP doesn't matter anyway just keep on having fun.

except I wont. was able to dual purpose my chars (all tanks or healers who do solo/pvp) at least a bit before. can't anymore.

I could actually if my full Xp were counted and I was cp 1900 instead of still 1200...

OMG I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF THAT.

I have so many characters that are dual purpose.... ughhhhhhhhhhh. this sucks. Maybe i'll turn my main who is also my fully researched crafter into my harverster (goodbye sweet elfboy), and my harverster will be come my main nightblade? ugh this sucks. Also pretty much all my mains were dual PvE & PvP.

Crafting and combat are different trees, so if your dual is craft and fight, there is no need to split things to different characters.

We have free respecs for 2 weeks. Play around with it and see what you think.

TejasEric

Universe wrote: »

Too bad that ZOS have not acted on the feedback provided regarding this issue.
They should have converted the total experience earned to champion points in the new system.
The new champion system is more of an horizontal progression anyway, converting total experience to champion points would have done no harm.
This is a total disregard of veteran players.

ZOS has proven they don’t really care about bug fixes or existing players. The only thing that matters is new content and new players. Veteran players are expendable.

Elsonso

Universe wrote: »

Too bad that ZOS have not acted on the feedback provided regarding this issue.
They should have converted the total experience earned to champion points in the new system.
The new champion system is more of an horizontal progression anyway, converting total experience to champion points would have done no harm.
This is a total disregard of veteran players.

If I am allowed to do divination about ZOS is thinking... they have not created a response for this. I don't think they really know what to say, and may not have even decided to say anything. One reason is that it is simply the way that the game has worked for the last few years. When the cap is increased, the catch-up mechanism has always adjusted the cost of CP so that new players can catch up to existing players. The only difference here is the magnitude of the change.

Another reason is that this idea of "total experience" is beginning to look like something invented by the players.It is not something that really applies to the game. If that is the case, they really have no answer to that sort of thing that I think people would accept. The response I imagine would be "what! you don't even track my experience? what sort of hack game is this?"

Last, they do not have a solution or change that they are going to do, or have not decided what to do.

We'll see, but ZOS is doing it this way, but the players have seemingly invented a way of looking at this that isn't actually reflected by the game. ZOS can come out and explain, but it is not going to be what people want to hear.

Ittrix

Elsonso wrote: »

We'll see, but ZOS is doing it this way, but the players have seemingly invented a way of looking at this that isn't actually reflected by the game. ZOS can come out and explain, but it is not going to be what people want to hear.

Yees, but doesn't that mean they should consider a reconsider?

Rogue_WolfESO

You could look at it this way, now it will take less time to gain levels.

Basaz

I think this is a bit overdramatic and the arguments against are incorrect. Personally I would have prefered things to stay as they were, because I seldom like increased grinds. There are both pros and cons with the new system. "Leveling the playing field" is a good move for any video game.

Elsonso

Ittrix wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

We'll see, but ZOS is doing it this way, but the players have seemingly invented a way of looking at this that isn't actually reflected by the game. ZOS can come out and explain, but it is not going to be what people want to hear.

Yees, but doesn't that mean they should consider a reconsider?

I would imagine that the thought has crossed their minds.

remosito

Rogue_Wolf wrote: »

You could look at it this way, now it will take less time to gain levels.

time to gain levels so I can keep having my chars multipurpose:

with scaling: 0 hours
with 1:1: thousands of hours playtime

remosito

Basaz wrote: »

. "Leveling the playing field" is a good move for any video game.

not arguing this. but there are as well good ways and bad ways to achieve this.

verical progression cap, flatter curve, xp hoost or more enlightenment for lower level chars would have achieved this too.

without screwing vet players over.

Shiredo

Good thing new MMORPGs will be coming out this year, eh? Hopefully those won't keep players grinding their whole life just to keep people playing.
If those fail, the MMORPG genre is doomed if ZOS carries on leading it. Who knows, maybe the competition will make ZOS change (can't write this with a straight face).

#GiveMy50%ExpBack #Inb4Snip

Shantu

It's just another example of lack of respect from ZOS for the time and effort veteran players have invested in the game. But it is what it is. ZOS seems fine with pissing people off. So what are you going to do? Basically gripe about it on a forum and either keep playing the game or quit.

For me, while I keep playing, this stuff gets old and makes me resistant to throwing any more money at the CS.

Ittrix

remosito wrote: »

Basaz wrote: »

. "Leveling the playing field" is a good move for any video game.

not arguing this. but there are as well good ways and bad ways to achieve this.

verical progression cap, flatter curve, xp hoost or more enlightenment for lower level chars would have achieved this too.

without screwing vet players over.

NightSquirrel

Would it make everyone feel better if it was ceremoniously removed?

Like a big ceremony where everyone one by one tosses their old XP gains on a giant pyre?

That’s all the people want a nice ceremony to say toodle-loo to their XP

That’d be so nice:)

tmbrinks

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Most direct would be no XP after 810 in this case (all time is lost)

2 step would be keep CP, no scaling, adjust new scale (some time is lost, but could earn some above cap)

3 steps would be scale CP, adjust new scale, give new players "XP/CP boost" above and beyond (some time is still lost, because you could have leveled up faster had you started later)

When the system is scaled to where most long-term players are at (1170 CP) to be where they were before.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Vlad9425

Feels bad but it doesn’t surprise me one bit that ZOS doesn’t even care about their long time players.

Ittrix

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

tmbrinks

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Ittrix

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Obviously the passives are different, but look between max CP parses for this and last patch. They're about the same, with this patch being a bit lower.
I was max CP last patch. I am not max CP this patch. I can not fill out all the passives in the tree = I do not get all the bonuses that were balanced to add up to about the same DPS.

tmbrinks

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Obviously the passives are different, but look between max CP parses for this and last patch. They're about the same, with this patch being a bit lower.
I was max CP last patch. I am not max CP this patch. I can not fill out all the passives in the tree = I do not get all the bonuses that were balanced to add up to about the same DPS.

You're not supposed to get the same DPS. The entire point of the conversion and change in the CP tree was because it was overperforming. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP on a build.

Ittrix

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Obviously the passives are different, but look between max CP parses for this and last patch. They're about the same, with this patch being a bit lower.
I was max CP last patch. I am not max CP this patch. I can not fill out all the passives in the tree = I do not get all the bonuses that were balanced to add up to about the same DPS.

You're not supposed to get the same DPS. The entire point of the conversion and change in the CP tree was because it was overperforming. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP on a build.

Not quite. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP- not the effectiveness of it. No CP players parse a lot closer to max CP players this patch. Players who already have a good portion of CP, though, can and will see nerfs to their damage until they hit the new 'max' again.

tmbrinks

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Obviously the passives are different, but look between max CP parses for this and last patch. They're about the same, with this patch being a bit lower.
I was max CP last patch. I am not max CP this patch. I can not fill out all the passives in the tree = I do not get all the bonuses that were balanced to add up to about the same DPS.

You're not supposed to get the same DPS. The entire point of the conversion and change in the CP tree was because it was overperforming. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP on a build.

Not quite. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP- not the effectiveness of it. No CP players parse a lot closer to max CP players this patch. Players who already have a good portion of CP, though, can and will see nerfs to their damage until they hit the new 'max' again.

The devs have stated that they want the DPS to be down 10-15% at the top end. They actually didn't get there with these changes, so to expect more to happen later.

The ultra high DPS was allowing mechanics to be skipped too reliably, without having to take substantial extra risks, and they want to curb that as much as possible.

Ittrix

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

I mean honestly I just want ZoS to say if they're planning on actually doing anything about the hubbub. I need to decide whether it's worth making a stink or if I should just go.

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Yes, theoretically. But at least you'd still be where you were before. For me, I've lost many passive bonuses as I'm no longer at cap. I don't care if a new player can level up in half the time so long as I'm still leveled up.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

Same boat as above. Theoretically? Yes. But in reality so long as they're still at cap I don't think they'd care.

What passives have you lost at cap (other than ones they explicitly changed due to CP being over powered, which is the whole point of this conversion to CP 2.0?)

In the crafting tree, your passives are BETTER at CP810 than they ever were on live. 50% vs 10% plentiful harvest. Meticulous Disassembly is a HUGE buff, etc...

Obviously the passives are different, but look between max CP parses for this and last patch. They're about the same, with this patch being a bit lower.
I was max CP last patch. I am not max CP this patch. I can not fill out all the passives in the tree = I do not get all the bonuses that were balanced to add up to about the same DPS.

You're not supposed to get the same DPS. The entire point of the conversion and change in the CP tree was because it was overperforming. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP on a build.

Not quite. They wanted to reduce the importance of CP- not the effectiveness of it. No CP players parse a lot closer to max CP players this patch. Players who already have a good portion of CP, though, can and will see nerfs to their damage until they hit the new 'max' again.

The devs have stated that they want the DPS to be down 10-15% at the top end. They actually didn't get there with these changes, so to expect more to happen later.

The ultra high DPS was allowing mechanics to be skipped too reliably, without having to take substantial extra risks, and they want to curb that as much as possible.

Regardless, I am personally seeing a nerf that someone at 1800 CP isn't. That was definitely not the intention of the patch.

remosito

tmbrinks wrote: »

The argument is that the time spent is "lost".

If you scale everybody AND then give new players a big boost.

Your time is still lost, because it would have taken you less time had you done it later (with the new players and the boost you get)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a "catch-up" mechanic where a veteran player is not "losing" time spent.

Most direct would be no XP after 810 in this case (all time is lost)

2 step would be keep CP, no scaling, adjust new scale (some time is lost, but could earn some above cap)

3 steps would be scale CP, adjust new scale, give new players "XP/CP boost" above and beyond (some time is still lost, because you could have leveled up faster had you started later)

When the system is scaled to where most long-term players are at (1170 CP) to be where they were before.

(And if you're going to argue that somebody with 2k CP should still be at "parity" with your 1k CP in the new system... just because you were before at 810, shouldn't the 2k CP player be rewarded more for their "time"? based on the arguments presented?)

CP 1200 vs 1900

one way I have more cp to spend and can actually do multipurpise spec and enjoy this new horizontal progresdion feature of cp 2.0.. the other I that is a couple of thousand hours of playtime away.

Fairly obvious how the two are not the same for me as a vet player.

as for others and if they get there faster. don't give a rats tail.

Merlin7331

I’m not sure I understand the annoyance here. There’s no ‘theft’, everyone’s stuff is still the same. It’s the same as if they increase the minimum wage in America, nobody who earnt the lower minimum wage suddenly complains they’ve had their money ‘stolen’ and demand to be back-payed for their entire lifetime of earning a lower rate.

Ittrix

Merlin7331 wrote: »

I’m not sure I understand the annoyance here. There’s no ‘theft’, everyone’s stuff is still the same. It’s the same as if they increase the minimum wage in America, nobody who earnt the lower minimum wage suddenly complains they’ve had their money ‘stolen’ and demand to be back-payed for their entire lifetime of earning a lower rate.

@Merlin7331
Correct. Because the minimum wage goes up *slowly*. When they make laws for that they're over time effects. They didn't say in Missouri that the new minimum wage was immediately 20 dollars. They said by 202x it'd be 20 dollars.
No one complained when the CP went up 30 at a time and experience values were bumped around.

Now the CP has gone up by 1000, 33 times more than any previous patch. If yesterday the minimum wage was 20 dollars and today the minimum wage would immediately shoot up to 2000 dollars, you can bet people would be complaining about their lifetime of work beforehand.