How are you feeling about 50% of your XP earned being unceremoniously deleted for Update 29's CP 2.0

barney2525

Scardan wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

Actually, my co worker have bought a soda bottles and they went on sale the day after with big discount. He asked to get refund and he recieved the difference. Living in Germany btw.

Idk how did you get to assumtion that we will not ask for a refund? XD

I'm thinking that was more of a kind individual store manager than an actual business practice. I personally generally have back luck buying a game's crowns/credits/whatever as they seem to go on sale about 2 days after I buy some.

It has never occurred to me to ask for a refund or the extra credits/crowns/whatever.

As well, I know the answer if I had made such a request.

TheImperfect

I'm looking forward to trying it out and maybe changing it up a bit on some of my characters. Nothing is lost in CP just more room for progression and it's good to have a use for xp scrolls etc.

stefj68

TheImperfect wrote: »

I'm looking forward to trying it out and maybe changing it up a bit on some of my characters. Nothing is lost in CP just more room for progression and it's good to have a use for xp scrolls etc.

im just 400cp short for doing what i was doing before, yes they nerf us, to give us a huge progression perspective...
400cp is what i earn xp wise, but that wasnt awarded, cause of the quadruple cost...

on some guys i need about 1800cp to do the same... i was really hoping for some compensation... for curve change and for vets that payed a crazy prices... a in between solution... but well what ever we say decision was taken long ago and nothing we can do will change a think

unless we mass unsubcribe

stefj68

i wanted to comment on CP change we should be refunded, but it was thread was closed already... im sure 80% of the community don't agree with ZOS just did, but at least 60% will do nothing and just soak it up!

but this is not ethically correct

Tigertron

How would have felt if you could not have earned any CP once you hit 810 and now had to start at 810 to get to where ever you are now? Be happy you don’t have to do that.

barney2525

I'm not at 810, only at 540.

But I'm gonna wait until I see what the actual result is to see if I like it or not.

Contaminate

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

tmbrinks

Contaminate wrote: »

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

Plentiful Harvest - at the 10% you get on live, takes 480 CP to get to. to get the 50% boost, takes 600 CP.

Treasure Hunter - takes 405 CP to get to.

So, everybody at 810 will be able to get their passives still.

Contaminate

tmbrinks wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

Plentiful Harvest - at the 10% you get on live, takes 480 CP to get to. to get the 50% boost, takes 600 CP.

Treasure Hunter - takes 405 CP to get to.

So, everybody at 810 will be able to get their passives still.

Unless they seriously changed the values from when I last hopped on the PTS, you can’t get both of those with 810CP.

tmbrinks

Contaminate wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

Plentiful Harvest - at the 10% you get on live, takes 480 CP to get to. to get the 50% boost, takes 600 CP.

Treasure Hunter - takes 405 CP to get to.

So, everybody at 810 will be able to get their passives still.

Unless they seriously changed the values from when I last hopped on the PTS, you can’t get both of those with 810CP.

I just checked right now. 480 CP will let you get both passives equivalent to what is on Live.



At 780 CP you get

50% plentiful harvest passive
50% gathering speed reduction
Treasure Hunter
Meticulous Disassembly
10% more inspiration
10% more gold in safeboxes and chests
2% more gold from all sources.

Sirona_Starr

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

You still have the exact same amount in your bank account but you can purchace more stuff with it

Look at the picture i posted. It's exactly the opposite. We have less "currency" in our account after this change. And if, as they said, this was done to address power creep, then it wouldnt matter that people were higher CP anyway.

Yeah i saw the picture
Its still not a problem to me
Like i said i did not want free cp
I earned 1300 cp not 1800

And the way it was handled was to be expected as its the exact same thing that happened every time they raised in the past

Yeah, but you're going to earn cp way faster than the people did before you. So, in a sense it is free, and unearned.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Indifference wins the day.

merpins

Moonsprite wrote: »

Soul Shriven
I don’t understand why people are so upset about this CP exp change. In other MMOs you chase endless gear progression. You spend hours and hours per expansion getting gear, only to have it be cosmetic when the next expansion comes out. This doesn’t mean you wasted your time. It means you got to enjoy and eventually farm that top content. Gear in this game is pretty obtainable and some really good sets are sold by players to others who never have to chase gear progression. CP seems like it was a replacement for endless gear progression.

As someone who has only been playing a little while and just got to level 50 and 18 CP I see CP as this games version of player power as gear is to other MMOs. It’s not like you didn’t enjoy god like status for years. That isn’t wasted time.

I'll give you an example: I'm a veteran player that has been playing on and off since Beta, but I also work and have a life outside playing video games, so I don't get to play for more than an hour or two every other day. I am a top end DPS that can do any content in the game and hit over 100k dps regularly on any of my main characters, but I do spend a lot of time making my house look cool, doing the side content the game has to offer, or playing new characters I made. Since I spend a lot of time doing side content, I have 700 CP. With the new update, I will already have a good nerf to overall damage, but that is compounded with the fact that I will still have 700 cp in a system where, in order to break even with the power I had before, I'd need 1300-2000 cp (I'd have ~1000 if they gave me the amount of CP I actually earned). Even then my DPS wouldn't be the same, but 10-15% less than it was before due to the changes, but without getting the CP that I earned by playing the game, I won't be able to do veteran end game content anymore, at least not at the competency I played that content before the update. And if it took me 7 years to get to cp 700, even if we gain 50% more CP than before, it will still take me a year or more to get back to where I was before if I play in a way that I find fun. Not everyone can grind out their levels, some people like me are playing casually to unwind after work, and don't want to spend the hour of game time they have per day grinding like hell just so they can enjoy the game they like.

Moonsprite

Yeah, but you're going to earn cp way faster than the people did before you. So, in a sense it is free, and unearned.[/quote]

Does the community in this game hate new players? This game already seemed to have a long grind when the CP was 810, now it’s over 3,000 CP. Should new players just walk away?

I don’t understand why the exp change to get to first CP cap is upsetting so many people. The CP in this game literally allowed players all kinds of perks for years for their mains and alts without having to re earn your CP. You don’t even have to chase gear progression like other games and can trade your gear between alts. Some of the end game sets can be crafted too. All MMOs create new CAPs and push power progression. It doesn’t change the power you enjoyed previously or diminish it.

I have 18 CP. I would much rather have spent the last few years playing and earning at least 810 CP than walk into this new system with the number of 3000 looming over me. I also don’t want to be hated by other players because they feel like I am getting free CP.

SeaGtGruff

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

You still have the exact same amount in your bank account but you can purchace more stuff with it

Look at the picture i posted. It's exactly the opposite. We have less "currency" in our account after this change. And if, as they said, this was done to address power creep, then it wouldnt matter that people were higher CP anyway.

Yeah i saw the picture
Its still not a problem to me
Like i said i did not want free cp
I earned 1300 cp not 1800

And the way it was handled was to be expected as its the exact same thing that happened every time they raised in the past

Yeah, but you're going to earn cp way faster than the people did before you. So, in a sense it is free, and unearned.

By that argument, players who earn XP or AP faster by farming it during 2XP or 2AP events are getting all their extra XP or AP for free, hence they aren't actually earning it.

Moonsprite

@MovesLikeJaguar

I get not having a lot of time. I work too. I play casually too.

So what you’re saying is the problem with the CP system isn’t the exp gains but the fact that the system lowered your actual power at your current CP level?

I thought the purpose of these CP changes was to eliminate the huge power gap? Is that not what happened? So what is the suggestion then? Keep the exp the same but have it equal the xp you earned already? So your current xp in CP will equal its new CP value. I think that sounds fair. I just hope they don’t nerf the exp gains instead.

Ceejengine

If I have to take a cut in EXP so everyone (including me) can have a better, more interesting CP system, I'm 100% for it.

I think long term the new CP system has incredible potential and honestly, the time I spent earning CP was time I was enjoying the game so I don't even consider it wasted.

I think a natural part of MMOs is stuff like this.

I'm glad we have the systems we have. Imagine if it was like WoW where each new expansion made all of your gear inert and you had to grind for gear constantly to stay relevant.

Yamenstein

I don't see the issue.

Anything you have earnt, stays. It's not like you are losing CP.

Any counter argument you make to someone explaining why this isn't bad you just disregard it.

Yamenstein

Merforum wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

Wow, @tmbrinks, a currency changing, and a business lowering its prices are two totally different things. When currencies get inflated, as is happening here with XP, business actually have to RAISE their prices. Not the other way around.

So you might wanna reevaluate how you feel about all this if thats what you thought.

I have very clearly stated how I "feel" about all of this in the other dozen threads... and I'm sure I'm "losing" more XP than anybody else commenting on this.

Afterall, you're linking to my spreadsheet

This is AT LEAST the 12th time this has happened in the game's history.

The lowering of the curve is a catch-up mechanic. It's healthy and needed for new players.

yah. I totally hear you. Also glad to hear whose spreadsheet it is (would you mind dragging down the header barrier to under row two, so the headers can scroll? tyvm).

But I just wanted to clarify that your analogy was wrong, and if that's the way you were thinking you were misinformed.

I also understand it's happened before, and I feel like anytime this happens, people who "lose" XP should be compensated. Just cause it was done wrong before doesnt mean it cant be done right this time.

Adding "It's worth it" to the poll was a mistake on my part. Because I also agree that it's worth it. My frustrations are as stated above.

You bought something for $400. A year later it's $300. Most are asking for the $100 returned to them

But please... tell me again how I'm "wrong" When it's a difference of opinion.

That's an absolute backwards analogy. A proper analogy would be as an IT contractor agreed to work for ZOS and they agreed to pay me $5000 for small project and I worked my butt off did a great job and now they are saying guess what I'll give you $3000 but thanks for your hard work.

What?.. Those situations are not even comparable.

Cundu_Ertur

Pretty indifferent about the exp changes. Very, very annoyed that they re-worked racials and failed once again to fix Bosmer stealth. Hard for me to get worked up about anything until that is fixed since I'm busy with other games.

Kurat

All content is doable with 0 cp next patch as long as you know how to play. Some people are just salty because we lost some dps and survivability and now they have to actually play the mechanics more. These changes were needed. I'm tired of mindless stack and burn parse fights.

McGordon

Problem is somewhere else. I don't care that my 800CP or your 1500CP (nobody ask u to grind past cap anyways) are not transferred to something higher. Problem in these game is you are required to grind CP to be able to do the content.
If ESO wouldn't require grind CP to enjoy content, then I would be able to have fun and be competitive in dungeons, trials and in PVP with my 800CP in new system, but it's not true. It will require to grind 1600 CP or whatever is soft cap to be able to participate in game. Same issue was with old CP system. Nobody force u to grind dolmens 24/7, u could just enjoy game and earn CP by doing quests, dungeons or trials. but you CAN'T. Until You have grinded at least 600CP,it will be hard to find Trial groups, and you will feel huge disadvantage in PVP, especially if u don't follow meta and play with that toon you want.
These is ESO problem. Higher Cp should unlock new things, but soft soft cap can't be a must to enjoy content.
Currently it's hard to advertise these game to anyone - Hey have u heard about ESO? It's cool game with amazing dungeons, trials and one of the best PVP in MMO hystori... Only catch is you need to grind for few months to enjoy any of it. Ah you work? Well then year or 2.

starkerealm

Kurat wrote: »

All content is doable with 0 cp next patch as long as you know how to play. Some people are just salty because we lost some dps and survivability and now they have to actually play the mechanics more. These changes were needed. I'm tired of mindless stack and burn parse fights.

Yeah, and that was part of the design intent. Some of the damage changes on the upper end of the CP system were put in place to slow down the players who would just stack and burn through everything.

Juhasow

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

You still have the exact same amount in your bank account but you can purchace more stuff with it

Look at the picture i posted. It's exactly the opposite. We have less "currency" in our account after this change. And if, as they said, this was done to address power creep, then it wouldnt matter that people were higher CP anyway.

Yeah i saw the picture
Its still not a problem to me
Like i said i did not want free cp
I earned 1300 cp not 1800

And the way it was handled was to be expected as its the exact same thing that happened every time they raised in the past

Yeah, but you're going to earn cp way faster than the people did before you. So, in a sense it is free, and unearned.

By that logic everyone who doesn't have 3600 CP atm will get free and unearned champion points after the patch.

MaLTRaiN

It's simple. I'm 850. If my character isn't as good as before the patch, then Zenimax can go to hell and I'll be leaving the game. Period.

They could have avoid this just giving CP according your accumulated XP. Simple.

They didn't care? Well, I don't care anymore either.

Kurat

McGordon wrote: »

Problem is somewhere else. I don't care that my 800CP or your 1500CP (nobody ask u to grind past cap anyways) are not transferred to something higher. Problem in these game is you are required to grind CP to be able to do the content.
If ESO wouldn't require grind CP to enjoy content, then I would be able to have fun and be competitive in dungeons, trials and in PVP with my 800CP in new system, but it's not true. It will require to grind 1600 CP or whatever is soft cap to be able to participate in game. Same issue was with old CP system. Nobody force u to grind dolmens 24/7, u could just enjoy game and earn CP by doing quests, dungeons or trials. but you CAN'T. Until You have grinded at least 600CP,it will be hard to find Trial groups, and you will feel huge disadvantage in PVP, especially if u don't follow meta and play with that toon you want.
These is ESO problem. Higher Cp should unlock new things, but soft soft cap can't be a must to enjoy content.
Currently it's hard to advertise these game to anyone - Hey have u heard about ESO? It's cool game with amazing dungeons, trials and one of the best PVP in MMO hystori... Only catch is you need to grind for few months to enjoy any of it. Ah you work? Well then year or 2.

What do you mean you cant. Have you actually tried on pts or just assuming?
Its difficult to find groups on pts but I was able to solo the same dungeons that I can currently on live. It was abit slower coz we lost some dps and I had to pay attention more coz of mitigation nerfs but you CAN still do the same content as before. I also tried vMA and vVH with 0 cp assigned on pts. Got flawless in vMA and cleared vVH with 2 deaths on last boss. And I'm just an average player.
Cp doesn't mean much anymore in pve.

Matchimus

With the exp i earned i was able to purchase cp. I knew how much experience was required for each cp. Update will allow me to retain cp I have purchased & make it easier to purchase more cp. I have no issues with change. The way it was & the way it will be are both transparent.

spacewolfplays

Ceejengine wrote: »

If I have to take a cut in EXP so everyone (including me) can have a better, more interesting CP system, I'm 100% for it.

I am OP, I agree with you. 100%. As I've said multiple times. I am looking forward to the changes. I think that's something that's missed in a lot of the back-and-forth's here.

It upsets me that so much of the back and forth in this thread ended up being about the technicalities of what's happening, and yes it does seem to be subjective about how people value CP as an expression of XP. Or in my case, XP as an expression of time and energy spent.

But I dont care about the before and after. I care about how it's been delivered to us. And this "silent policy" of cutting XP with no compensation, is a shame. So many people say "this is how it works in so many MMOs" as if that's a good excuse. Just cause you can do something, and just cause something has been done before, doesn't mean it still needs to be done that way.

• I'm all for a good catchup system
• I'm all for lessening the power gap between new and old players
• I'm all for changes to the CP system.

I just think that it sucks that I put in the work to meet a requirement, and now that that requirement is easier to get, the people who made those changes are not saying:

"we understand you worked harder than those who are coming after you, and so here's a token from us, even though it wont change much".

That would be the CIVIL thing to do.

All it would take is a message like the above from @ZOS_GinaBruno and I feel like it would sooth a good majority of the 49% of players who responded to my poll that they were annoyed or upset.

I knew i wasnt alone, but it blows my mind that 49% of players are disappointed with how this is handled and ZOS hasnt done anything about it. This is why I did this poll. Because ZOS isn't asking, because they don't want to know.

starkerealm

Kurat wrote: »

Got flawless in vMA... And I'm just an average player.

I think we may have slightly different definitions of average.

spacewolfplays

starkerealm wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

Got flawless in vMA... And I'm just an average player.

I think we may have slightly different definitions of average.

lol that's EXACTLY what I was thinking.