How are you feeling about 50% of your XP earned being unceremoniously deleted for Update 29's CP 2.0

furiouslog

tmbrinks wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

Plentiful Harvest - at the 10% you get on live, takes 480 CP to get to. to get the 50% boost, takes 600 CP.

Treasure Hunter - takes 405 CP to get to.

So, everybody at 810 will be able to get their passives still.

Not without trading off something in another tree, though. This was my original complaint.

jle30303

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't see the issue.

Anything you have earnt, stays. It's not like you are losing CP.

Any counter argument you make to someone explaining why this isn't bad you just disregard it.

But, everything you have earnt, DOES NOT STAY: you cannot gain the same bonuses and buffs with 810 CP post-change, as you could with 810 CP pre-change.

So even though you keep the actual number 810 as your CP total, those 810 MEAN LESS.

To be frank: Every player is getting nerfed, and nobody likes being nerfed. I am prepared to bet that Zenimax will lose a considerable number of subscriptions over this.

Juhasow

I don't feel that anything was deleted. Before the patch everyone was leveling CP słower and after the patch everyone including me will do it faster.

renne

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

You still have the exact same amount in your bank account but you can purchace more stuff with it

Look at the picture i posted. It's exactly the opposite. We have less "currency" in our account after this change. And if, as they said, this was done to address power creep, then it wouldnt matter that people were higher CP anyway.

Yeah i saw the picture
Its still not a problem to me
Like i said i did not want free cp
I earned 1300 cp not 1800

And the way it was handled was to be expected as its the exact same thing that happened every time they raised in the past

Yeah, but you're going to earn cp way faster than the people did before you. So, in a sense it is free, and unearned.

I'm confused, are they earning CP faster or is it unearned? It can't be both.

jle30303

Also. Pet peeve: Why is "increased harvesting speed" even a thing? Frankly, both Skyrim and ESO completely dropped the ball by making the harvesting of resources take several seconds and a mini-cutscene of swinging a pick or an axe or whatever. It should be one click, GOT, PROCESS DONE. And this should be for everyone from level 1 upwards, and it should take half the time *normally*, without any need for speed-up perks, that it currently does WITH a speed-up perk. It is still unacceptably slow with the speed-up perk, and worse without it.

Kurat

jle30303 wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't see the issue.

Anything you have earnt, stays. It's not like you are losing CP.

Any counter argument you make to someone explaining why this isn't bad you just disregard it.

But, everything you have earnt, DOES NOT STAY: you cannot gain the same bonuses and buffs with 810 CP post-change, as you could with 810 CP pre-change.

So even though you keep the actual number 810 as your CP total, those 810 MEAN LESS.

To be frank: Every player is getting nerfed, and nobody likes being nerfed. I am prepared to bet that Zenimax will lose a considerable number of subscriptions over this.

I get what you're saying but next patch cp3600 MEANS LESS than current cp810. You will never get to the same dps, same buffs and mitigation no matter your cp or build. Everything got nerfed. Just get used to it. Cp will be just a number showing how long you have been playing or grinding.

PrinceDamien

Rudrani

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

I thought that was exactly what was happening? They would recalculate cp from our raw xp. No?

robertthebard

I am feeling deceived by the topic title.

"But someone else will earn it faster" does not equate to "deleting half of your xp".

spacewolfplays

Rudrani wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

I thought that was exactly what was happening? They would recalculate cp from our raw xp. No?

No. The CP you have now is the CP you will have after Update 29. Click here for FAQs

robertthebard wrote: »

I am feeling deceived by the topic title.

"But someone else will earn it faster" does not equate to "deleting half of your xp".

That's a different issue. Not OP's complaint, that's some rando who replied. Me, OP, is upset that ZOS has no empathy for the fact that we grinded (via actual grinding or just casual play) to earn hundreds of millions of experience points, and following update 29, since you're keeping your CP, not your XP, it'll be like you only earned half the XP you previously had.

robertthebard

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

I thought that was exactly what was happening? They would recalculate cp from our raw xp. No?

No. The CP you have now is the CP you will have after Update 29. Click here for FAQs

robertthebard wrote: »

I am feeling deceived by the topic title.

"But someone else will earn it faster" does not equate to "deleting half of your xp".

That's a different issue. Not OP's complaint, that's some rando who replied. Me, OP, is upset that ZOS has no empathy for the fact that we grinded (via actual grinding or just casual play) to earn hundreds of millions of experience points, and following update 29, since you're keeping your CP, not your XP, it'll be like you only earned half the XP you previously had.

You're not losing your xp. Your character will not drop from where ever to half their level. The rate for gaining CP has/will have changed, but none of the time we've spent on these characters is being removed. What's actually happening is trying to prevent what's happened in other games over the years: A level cap increase happens, and all xp earned is credited, and toons hit the cap on logging in. Within 24 hours, players are back on the forums complaining that they don't have anything to work towards. I can take this all the way back to Neverwinter Nights, by BioWare, when they raised the final cap to 40. Every server I hit had the same chat going, "I wish they hadn't given us this xp, now I don't have anything to do".

So I think this method is a good idea. Players that have been running around for who knows how long not gaining anything will now have something to gain. It's an actual win.

renne

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

I thought that was exactly what was happening? They would recalculate cp from our raw xp. No?

No. The CP you have now is the CP you will have after Update 29. Click here for FAQs

robertthebard wrote: »

I am feeling deceived by the topic title.

"But someone else will earn it faster" does not equate to "deleting half of your xp".

That's a different issue. Not OP's complaint, that's some rando who replied. Me, OP, is upset that ZOS has no empathy for the fact that we grinded (via actual grinding or just casual play) to earn hundreds of millions of experience points, and following update 29, since you're keeping your CP, not your XP, it'll be like you only earned half the XP you previously had.

You don't "keep" your XP anyway, otherwise there'd be a way in game of seeing exactly what XP you've accumulated without having to go out of game and calculate it via your CP and when you started playing and what adjustments ZoS has made with XP and how it's earned since you started.

You only have an accumulated total if YOU do the calculations and check for it.

Someone earlier either in this thread or another one of the same complaint said it best when they said that levelling CP is spending the earned XP on the next CP point. My next CP will cost me 820,794. I have earned 340,815 of the way there. When I get to 820,794, I start from 0 again to earn the next CP point. I don't start from whatever 1006CP's worth of XP is plus 1.

Contaminate

tmbrinks wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

Everyone here defending this as “entitlement” seems to be completely missing that fact that many players will no longer have access to QoL aspects that they used to have. Treasure Hunter and Plentiful Harvest are now not obtainable for many players sitting at the 810 cap, whereas they currently are usable. Exploiter was removed entirely. Regen nodes were removed.

The number of CP we have is the same, but 810 in CP1.0 grants more power than 810CP CP2.0 will after the patch. That’s the problem. Vertical power growth won’t end until ~1800CP, and for a while, people are going to be without the QoL features that they’ve enjoyed for years.

Base stat buffs are a good start, but removing QoL aspects and demanding player regrind for dozens of hours to get them back is skeevy. And there’s nothing “entitled” about pointing that out.

Plentiful Harvest - at the 10% you get on live, takes 480 CP to get to. to get the 50% boost, takes 600 CP.

Treasure Hunter - takes 405 CP to get to.

So, everybody at 810 will be able to get their passives still.

Unless they seriously changed the values from when I last hopped on the PTS, you can’t get both of those with 810CP.

I just checked right now. 480 CP will let you get both passives equivalent to what is on Live.



At 780 CP you get

50% plentiful harvest passive
50% gathering speed reduction
Treasure Hunter
Meticulous Disassembly
10% more inspiration
10% more gold in safeboxes and chests
2% more gold from all sources.

Hm, I stand corrected, though that still leaves the obvious issue of how much you have to give up in order to get those bonuses, when they used to be free by virtue of investing into the related constellation for combat stats.

Lysette

spacewolfplays wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

The thing is, it was never different. Every time the CP cap raised you kept your current CP. But there was never a raise of 2790 points, so it would have been nice to at least get some balance for that massive XP loss for older players. Its pretty much a slap in the face to veterans.

They've raised the CP cap before but they hadnt changed the way XP scaled.

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

I dont get it. I'm cp 1250. How is my xp getting deleted on cp.2?

They're changing the scale of how much XP it takes to level.

What previously took 112,139,960 XP to reach CP 600, will now only require 61,680,386, a change of 45%. To me, personally, that XP represents time I spent on the game. So to me, having the thing that basically defines a big chunk of my character, their level, stay the same, without acknowledging this change, makes me really angry.

But it's not about them taking something from you - it will just be easier for younger players to get there. this is not the same and as well pretty much similar to real life. For those coming later to acquiring something it is normally much easier or cheaper to get it - try to see it like that, it might help calming your anger at least a bit.

russelmmendoza

I wanna curse and lash out but I would get a permaban, so how am I to say how much I hate what their doing? Why do they ask if we care when they just do what they what when they want.

renne

russelmmendoza wrote: »

I wanna curse and lash out but I would get a permaban, so how am I to say how much I hate what their doing? Why do they ask if we care when they just do what they what when they want.

Where did they ask if we care if they do or don't give us CP commensurate to what CP's worth of XP we've earned?

furiouslog

PrinceDamien wrote: »

Jayman1000

I dont agree with the premise of XP deleted. You are not getting XP deleted. When you earned your cp levels each cp level had a much higher xp cost, right? And then they are now changing the cp cost to be half that going forward, is that not correct? So you dont lose any cp points and you dont lose any xp.

Your argument is like a subscription that is going to be 50% cheaper in the future and then saying that as a subscriber you want a 50% refund for all past months subscribed because you have paid 50% more than the price is going to be...

Jayman1000

Juhasow wrote: »

I don't feel that anything was deleted. Before the patch everyone was leveling CP słower and after the patch everyone including me will do it faster.

+1 Exactly this, it is nothing more than this. It is simply going to be much less xp required leveling up in the future. People shouldnt be angry, should be the opposite really.

ChuckyPayne

Such thoughts should not stand in the way of development. Because it was harder for me, isn’t it fair that it’s easier for those who come later? This is a meaningless thought.

I have ~ CP 1400 now, to me what does it mean? After it I can collect more CP point more easily than before! That is huge!
I am really looking forward to the birthday event +100% exp and exp scrolls + writs I will collect tons of CP

trackdemon5512

Let’s make this clear.

The system does not work by tallying your total XP and converting it to CP. It never has.

What the system does is use a formula to calculate the amount of XP needed to gain the next CP. That formula gradually increases the XP per CP cost.

The game isn’t tracking your XP like those in this forum are upset about.

If you see a spreadsheet showing total XP needed for certain CP pre-patch and total XP needed for the same CP post-patch, understand you are being misled. The game doesn’t tally XP like that.

As the game isn’t tracking your total amount of XP, which varies wildly between players even with the same CP pre-patch, it’s impossible for players to ask for a compensated CP boost once the patch drops.

A patch dropping right now which makes all this pointless.

Warwolf

Nothing gets deleted ,it gets converted .

[snip]

Still i want a reward for those who paved the way , they are the reason we can enjoy this game , VETS.

My suggestion is more symbolic, just a gold border around their names or some like that a little thank you with out the corny here is you item ..you might never even use ...

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Nephthys

It doesn't bother me one way or the other. We are all in the same boat, maybe bar a percent or two. Every time there is a major work over you get some people foot stamping and threatening to leave, declaring the game dead. The vast majority just get on with it. Been playing since 2014 and overall the game is dramatically better than it was back then, so despite some irritations along the way, generally progress is in the right direction.... in my opinion.

Juhasow

spacewolfplays wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

The thing is, it was never different. Every time the CP cap raised you kept your current CP. But there was never a raise of 2790 points, so it would have been nice to at least get some balance for that massive XP loss for older players. Its pretty much a slap in the face to veterans.

They've raised the CP cap before but they hadnt changed the way XP scaled.

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

I dont get it. I'm cp 1250. How is my xp getting deleted on cp.2?

They're changing the scale of how much XP it takes to level.

What previously took 112,139,960 XP to reach CP 600, will now only require 61,680,386, a change of 45%. To me, personally, that XP represents time I spent on the game. So to me, having the thing that basically defines a big chunk of my character, their level, stay the same, without acknowledging this change, makes me really angry.

Bolded text is completly incorrect. Literally every time when ZoS increased the cap the way XP scaled changed. With the higher cap , amount of XP needed for the same CP was lowering. This is the whole idea behind catching up mechanic , that with higher cap the curve adjusts to it. What is even funnier is that formula for XP per CP is THE SAME as it used to be almost since introduction of catching up mechanic which is few years now and with CP 2.0 is stays the same , ZoS just increased cap value in the formula to 1800. So what we're experiencing right now is what we've experienced literally every time CP cap was increased , the only difference is that right now it happens on the larger scale because cap increase from one update to another is higher then before so we can feel the change more then before.

For those who don't belive here is the formula for XP required per CP (after reaching the cap number You just add 50%) : (((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000)

If You'll put for example 600 as value "x" and cap will be at 810 then XP required will be 340k but when You change cap value to 1800 it'll drop down to 172k which are excatly the values from the bracket linked in quoted post. You can also calculate that when CP caps were lower then 810 then thevamount of XP that CP number 600 would cost was higher then with CP cap at 810. For example with 690 CP as a cap CP 600 cost was 393k.

It gets even funnier. With a cap of 531 CP cost of CP 500 sits at 422k which is equall to CP 760 with a cap of 810 CP . So should we get also refunded for every cap increase that happened in the game since 2015 ? Or maybe we also shopuld get refunded for the time we've spent on grinding every character to max veteran rank before those were removed ? At the end everyone who played the game when caps were increasing already experienced what is happening right now.

kydot12

spacewolfplays wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

The thing is, it was never different. Every time the CP cap raised you kept your current CP. But there was never a raise of 2790 points, so it would have been nice to at least get some balance for that massive XP loss for older players. Its pretty much a slap in the face to veterans.

They've raised the CP cap before but they hadnt changed the way XP scaled.

Mariusghost84 wrote: »

I dont get it. I'm cp 1250. How is my xp getting deleted on cp.2?

They're changing the scale of how much XP it takes to level.

What previously took 112,139,960 XP to reach CP 600, will now only require 61,680,386, a change of 45%. To me, personally, that XP represents time I spent on the game. So to me, having the thing that basically defines a big chunk of my character, their level, stay the same, without acknowledging this change, makes me really angry.

Where can I find this spreadsheet?

Vermintide

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If they weren't doing this, you'd be bored. Rejoice, for you can grind again! You love grinding. That's why you're the kind of player who was at 1600CP to begin with.

You may not want to admit it, but it's the truth.

Uvi_AUT

Its worth it, because old CP was boring.

Plus I´m actually excited to advance my character after such a long time of being capped.

merevie

So I have the Cp I earnt.
No issues with that. I don't need it scaled. Had many months warning and could grind Skyreach if I could stand Pve. Unless I start dying to zerglings I'd rather just lump it than soullessly grind.

Helping new players get Cp faster.
Also good. My old gaming mates joined 6 months ago. Twiddling thumbs till they got to 400 and could do Gray Pvp. So now they can get t0 400 faster. Except the goal posts for base Pvp just went to 1200.
Well damn.

What else is not good is I can no longer access the abilities I was using in the old Cp system, without exactly another 1500 Cp. Even then, a bunch of things like armor and mitigation have been trashed, to force me to die more or hit like a wet noodle.

There is always away around this, and the community will once again find it, (and not put it on their Streams this time, eh), but not having the same ability due to this Cp nerfdom is freaking annoying.

phil.maricel08ub17_ESO

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Can people stop with the freaking analogies!?!?! Seriously. Enough already. They're all crap analogies anyway. All of them. And it doesnt matter cause this isnt a currency, this isnt a soda, this isnt wages.

We all understand how it works, why it's working, etc. That's not what this thread is about.

The fact of the matter is, that like @pink_pixie said, it was VERY poorly presented to us. And for veteran players, people who have put lots of money and time towards the game, are being slighted. It's a fact, whether or not you feel that way personally.

They should have done something about that.

Look at the poll, look at the comments here. Several people are ending their subscriptions, people are leaving the game. And these are just the people who care enough to still come to the forum. I'm sure ZOS has calculated those losses into their choices. But I wonder if they had done even just a LITTLE BIT of acknowledgement of how this is hard for long-term players to swallow, and maybe even some compensation, that the costs to them would be way less.

OMG

ectoplasmicninja

Meh, I don't have strong feelings about this update in general, other than thinking that all those slottables in the green tree are an ill-advised facilitator of tedious manual swapping that nobody enjoys. I don't enjoy getting nerfed, but as a current casual I'm sure I'll be able to complete the same content I already do. I also never once thought they would translate our CP over into some other higher number, because ZOS does not make retroactive changes like that and it would also defeat their stated goal of "lowering the ceiling" if a big chunk of the playerbase were to get a huge level jump.

Other than voicing disagreement, ultimately our choice with this update, as with every other, is to keep playing or quit. Rage is ineffective, but login numbers don't lie. How many separate threads do we need on "ZOS is stealing my CP" or "I hate the no proc PvP"? Communicate your dissatisfaction and then act accordingly.