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How are you feeling about 50% of your XP earned being unceremoniously deleted for Update 29's CP 2.0

  • tmbrinks
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    TwinLamps wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    TwinLamps wrote: »
    I just dont understand why some people defend zos on this so valiantly.
    What is it in for you to be so vocal about a move that devalues all effort people put into getting XP in ESO so far?
    If you think all is fine, ok, just move along.

    So, you don't think it's fair for the people who think it's okay to say anything?

    Only dissenting voices should be heard?

    It's your OPINION that this devalues YOUR effort. Others don't feel that way. I certainly don't. That doesn't mean you get to determine who should be able to speak up on a topic.

    [Quoted post was removed]

    [Quoted post was removed]

    [snip]
    You earned X amount of XP.
    That gave you Y amount of CPs.
    Tomorrow when new patch goes live you will still have same amount of CPs.
    Will amount of XP you gained remain the same or will it be cut 40-45%?

    I mean if you are OK with that thats fine.
    But dont pretend that zos didnt just take away your XP

    They haven't. XP is a currency. I traded in that currency for a CP. Currently they cost me about 1.5 million XP for one CP. Tomorrow they'll cost 750k XP for one CP.

    The price on CP has changed. My ability to earn XP hasn't.

    You're asking ZoS to retroactively give you everything you "earned/spent" on the old system.

    You went to a coffee house for 2 years, and paid $4 for a coffee. Tomorrow they change the price to $2 a coffee. You're asking to get the last 2 years of coffee given to you. You want them to give you, for free now, the 700+ coffees you "could have bought at the new price". You agreed to pay that $4 for the coffee for all those year, you don't get the "money" back retroactively. Did the coffee shop "steal" from you? No.

    [snip]

    [Edited to remove Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on March 7, 2021 2:14PM
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  • Elsonso
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    You earned X amount of XP.
    That gave you Y amount of CPs.
    Tomorrow when new patch goes live you will still have same amount of CPs.
    Will amount of XP you gained remain the same or will it be cut 40-45%?

    Your total XP earned does not change. Your CP earned does not change, either. Both remain the same.

    ESO Plus: No
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • Lisa
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    The big spirit killer for me was watching my sister start from scratch and reach what was originally level vet-16 within a month, if even that. I don't remember how long it took exactly, but I feel like it took me at least a year to reach that point.
    Blessed are those who explore the unbeaten path...
  • Alurria
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    What a totally unproductive thread. Honestly this game was never about min/max. You can do it but what phantom you are chasing was never the focus of ESO. As far as I can tell it was always about expanding the single player games to make a persistent world called Nirn. The entitlement is astounding in this thread and before you tell me I must be a newb, nope nada been here on and off since beta. It's always been about the journey. My sorc is my first character and she still doesn't have all cp and I played her since day one. I realize for some people they chase levels I get it, but when you race to the end there you are sitting waiting for what? This isn't an arcade type game you don't win because there is no prize at the end except for the one you made up in your own mind. You are not being cheated omg!
  • Jeffrey530
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    TwinLamps wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    TwinLamps wrote: »
    I just dont understand why some people defend zos on this so valiantly.
    What is it in for you to be so vocal about a move that devalues all effort people put into getting XP in ESO so far?
    If you think all is fine, ok, just move along.

    So, you don't think it's fair for the people who think it's okay to say anything?

    Only dissenting voices should be heard?

    It's your OPINION that this devalues YOUR effort. Others don't feel that way. I certainly don't. That doesn't mean you get to determine who should be able to speak up on a topic.

    [Quoted post was removed]

    [Quoted post was removed]

    [snip]
    You earned X amount of XP.
    That gave you Y amount of CPs.
    Tomorrow when new patch goes live you will still have same amount of CPs.
    Will amount of XP you gained remain the same or will it be cut 40-45%?

    I mean if you are OK with that thats fine.
    But dont pretend that zos didnt just take away your XP

    The amount of xp is the same, unless you are telling me when I do writs or kill mobs tomorrow the experience gained is cut by 40-45%.

    The difference is the conversion from xp to cp, at least get your analogy correct first before being entitled to everything even in a video game
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on March 7, 2021 2:15PM
  • ZOS_ConnorG
    Greetings all,

    After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

    You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.
    Staff Post
  • Red_Feather
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    This is a silly thing to get mad over. It's a trick of the mind.
  • Xebov
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    I'm totally baffled again and again about how many people seem to play the game only to get to some "Maximum", or to advance their character for the sake of advancement.

    I'm almost at CP 1200 now. I've played the game because I had fun with it. And while I did that I racket up XP/CP. Yes, getting XP when it still meant something (so until CP 810) was part of the fun, but it was only one of many things, and once it became just a theoretical numer I completely forgot about it. Because I play the game to... play the game. XP, especially after CP some-hundred, are just some tiny side effect.

    So I can't feel cheated, or robbed, or mistreated, or whatever goes around in all these threads whenever some arbitrary maximum is pushed further up, taking me farther away from it.
    I would've played the game as much as I played it anyway. I had my fun while doing it. I can keep playing it as I like to do. (It's not as if the characters are reset to 0 CP or something.)The only thing I "loose" is the fact that my character can no longer do anything with the XP that keep coming in. So for the first time in years I touched those stacks of XP-scrolls again that were lying around by the hundreds, useless and gathering dust.

    Different players like and enjoy different parts of the game.

    For example you have PvP players or Vet Trial/Dungeon players that like to do this content, but what they do naturally doesnt yield much XP. Currently they are at the performance cap, but after the update they have to resort to outside XP sources.

    Another example would be players like me. I like to do Quests and Achievments. Both are one time sources, so all the stuff i already did i cant do again, but i also dont profit from the XP i got. In order to progress further i now have to use other XP sources. Which is not that nice, given that i made enought XP with my playstyle to get way over the new soft cap.


    Czeri wrote: »
    Xebov wrote: »
    Iam annoyed. Its ~60% for me. Im not so much annoyed by the loss of XP, but more by the loss of sources. Alot of my XP came from Questing and Achievments, which are both one time sources. I enjoyed doing them, but i cant do them again. This greatly limits my choices on what to do to progress through the new CP system.

    That is a good point. For those of us that are solo PvE oriented and completed all the zones, there isn't that much to do to gain experience - a new chapter once a year, a mini-zone DLC, and events. I tend to burn through the accumulated inspiration once it's gets close to the limit by turning in crafting writs on masse after popping an experience scroll, because my day to day play is pretty much just crafting dailies, and that doesn't use up the inspiration.

    Now that earning championship points will become meaningful again, and I might need to get another few hundred to unlock eg. Treasure Hunter again, I'd just have to grind...

    Essentially i have 2 options left. I either make alot of use of daily sources like daily dungeon, or i mindlessly grind. There is nothing else left for me to progress.
  • beadabow
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    Doesn't bother me at all. For the longest time, I felt that the free exp scrolls, psijiic ambrosia recipes scraps, festival exp boosters, and training trait items (among other sources of exp boosts) were pretty much useless junk to a CP 1350ish account. For the same length of time, each time I earned another CP, I thought...."A lot of good that does....". Now I have something to look forward to when playing a game I left for a year because it was starting to get stale. I don't care if I ever reach CP 3600, It's not necessary IMO. And I was never in a rush to "level up." Just my personality type, I suppose.

    I am one of those players that enjoys leisurely strolls through dungeons solo, taking time to explore every nook and cranny - when I feel like it, or helping guildies get a speed run achievement on another "focused run." I like freedom of choice in an open world game, and the new CP system and experience "loss" should make Tamriel a fun place to explore and gain fame, fortune and experience for years to come. A smart business move on the developers part. Customer retention is an important revenue source.
  • LanteanPegasus
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    Xebov wrote: »
    Different players like and enjoy different parts of the game.

    For example you have PvP players or Vet Trial/Dungeon players that like to do this content, but what they do naturally doesnt yield much XP. Currently they are at the performance cap, but after the update they have to resort to outside XP sources.

    Another example would be players like me. I like to do Quests and Achievments. Both are one time sources, so all the stuff i already did i cant do again, but i also dont profit from the XP i got. In order to progress further i now have to use other XP sources. Which is not that nice, given that i made enought XP with my playstyle to get way over the new soft cap.

    Essentially i have 2 options left. I either make alot of use of daily sources like daily dungeon, or i mindlessly grind. There is nothing else left for me to progress.

    Thanks for offering this perspective. Maybe I am under some misconceptions...

    The devs said that people who can do the Vet stuff now can still do it after the patch. Maybe that's not true? In that case I can understand that a problem is created. Working hard to "unlock" the hard stuff, and then being randomly locked out again spoils the fun.
    But if it is exclusively about being at "performance cap", then I'm still stumped. I mean, if people are just doing that content to arrive at said cap, not because the play itself is satisfiying in some way, or because they need to be at cap to even do it, what do they do after arriving at said cap? (Or what have they done, because they probably got there long ago.)

    And for players like us (because I'm more of a quests and achievement person myself, too)... True, the options of getting XP are more limited. I have to confess, though, that while I vastly prefer quests and exploration I find myself doing "old" stuff for quite the amount of time. Crafting, dailies for motiv/blueprint/etc. hunting, antiquities, events, the occasional dungeon with friends or guildies that need help (in the lower ones, of course) and so forth. If I didn't do that (or didn't like it) I wouldn't be able to play ESO for most time of the year anyway, because, as you said, there is only so much new play time in one chapter/one DLC.
    But for quests and exploration I don't need all those CP anyway, so why would it be important to be at the max?

    What do you do all the time in the game, outside the hours it takes to finish the chapter+DLC each year? (This isn't sarcasm or mockery, it's an honest question.) If it's nothing,fair enough, that's a good way to play the game, too. And of course that would make for slow progression to the new cap, but it does't sound like slow progression was a problem for you so far? (Again, honest question. Because I've usually found that running dungeons and other repeated stuff nets much more XP/time than quests and exploration.)

  • AlnilamE
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    It would be cool if we received a collectible item to commemorate our CP Level before the shift from CP 1.0 to 2.0. Maybe a collectible furnishing plaque with our old CP Level on it.... or an outfit/mount at intervals such as CP100, 300, 600, 810, 1000, 1200, 1500.

    We already have something similar with the outfits of Dark Seducer, Golden Saint, Mannimarco, etc. Basically expand on it for high level players to show off their work before the Exp shift.

    OK, I would love a commemorative plaque with my current CP at the time of the change to use as a furnishing.
    The Moot Councillor
  • AlnilamE
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    I just dont understand why some people defend zos on this so valiantly.
    What is it in for you to be so vocal about a move that devalues all effort people put into getting XP in ESO so far?
    If you think all is fine, ok, just move along.

    My effort is not devalued any more than it always has been, though. (And I don't think it has to begin with, but going from your perspective)

    I've been here since launch. I have "lost" more XP than some people have gained. And it's fine.
    The Moot Councillor
  • PizzaCat82
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    People either don't realize that if the game had the same level progression that everyone had to take from the beginning this game would be so unfriendly to new players, or if they were "refunded all XP" they earned for a larger CP amount then there'd be nothing to work toward once the new changes did come through.

    Edited by PizzaCat82 on March 7, 2021 5:07PM
  • dcam86b14_ESO
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    It felt really pointless so many years earning CP that we couldn't do anything with. I honestly don't pay attention to the extra CP that pops up bc again I can't do anything with it.

    I am happy with the changes, now only if we could get a level raise after all these years that would be cool.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    Scardan wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

    The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

    You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

    Actually, my co worker have bought a soda bottles and they went on sale the day after with big discount. He asked to get refund and he recieved the difference. Living in Germany btw.

    But this isn't the next day. It's the next year.

    If you buy something for $500 in 2019, and it's $250 the next summer, do you go to the store and say "give me $250 back"?
  • Tandor
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    I don't see the issue here, for reasons already given very eloquently by others.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    I just dont understand why some people defend zos on this so valiantly.

    [snip]

    This change is nothing.

    Also, all those XP you got over the last months/years, which are apparently being "stolen" - those came along with all the gameplay, loot, and enjoyment that you got from the game. [snip]

    Honestly, the XP is a random side bonus to playing the game. Which is why people keep playing all those other games out there with hard XP caps. Or would you stop playing WoW in between expansions, because you were no longer earning XP?

    edit: or, heck - if they change the XP curve to get from 1 to 50 (which you did years ago, when it took more/longer). Do you complain that they've stolen the extra XYZ hours that it took you to get to 50 before, because now someone can get to 50 in 2 days instead of 4, and they're start earning CP before you did, so they'll be "ahead" of you? [snip]

    I feel like a lot of people here never played other MMOs. Stuff changes all the time in these games. You don't get "compensated" for it, you just deal with it and move on. It'll change again someday - your class/race might be BIS one year, unwanted the next, and BIS again the third year. People joining three expansions after you might get a super-fast leveling experience to get them to the new content. They might not have to jump through the hoops you did to clear stuff two years previously. That's just the way it is, and you live with it. /shrug

    [Edited to remove Rude Comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on March 7, 2021 6:52PM
  • JoeCapricorn
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    What I like is that I will feel like I am doing progress on my main character again. Only ever being able to use 810 CP kinda made earning more pointless until now.
    I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn
  • Linaleah
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    honstly, it could be much MUCH worse. Bungie deleted half of Destiny 2 content. in theory that was "free content" in practice a lot of people actualy paid for it. making it free was... expected i suppose. and it doesn't bother me too much. but they outright removed it from a game.

    having your CP not being grandfathered in at a higher rate is mild in comparison. you still keep all the CP you earned, you still have acess to it. its just easier for people who come after you - to catch up to your level.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • danno8
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    zaria wrote: »
    danno8 wrote: »
    And that the word "compensation" gets thrown around way too much, and for way too minor things, these days.
    I killed Almalexia in TES 3 Morrowind, why do this not earn an godslayer title in ESO?

    Whoa dude your quoting is way off. You have me saying something I didn't, Kiralyn2000 saying what you wanted to say, and you saying nothing at all!
    Edited by danno8 on March 7, 2021 5:48PM
  • trackdemon5512
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    TOTAL XP EARNED DOES NOT EQUAL CP EARNED.

    The systems are separate and there are factors beyond what you see that affect the awarding of CP. How do we know this?



    COLOVIAN WAR TORTES SHOW EVIDENCE OF MORE

    Prior to the introduction of War Tortes it was assumed that AP earned by a character directly translated over to their Alliance Rank. Earn 64,000,000 AP and you should be at the rank of Grand Overlord.

    Introduce the War Tortes, which confirmed by ZOS increase the rate at which you level up Alliance/Support Skill Lines AND accelerates your Alliance Rank leveling. War Tortes DO NOT increase AP earned. As such it becomes clear that Alliance Rank is not merely a summation of your total AP earned. Why should CP simply be a matter a total XP earned when clearly Alliance Rank was apparently never just a total summation of AP earned.



    XP IS ONE OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SYSTEMS IN ESO

    The simple way people think is that if you gain XP it automatically translates to a CP. But if this was the case then CP earned can be decreased. Say the developers made it so that it cost more XP to get a CP. Under the system where total XP becomes your total CP you would then in fact LOSE CP if such a change was made. We can guess this isn't the case thankfully as total awarded CP has never fluctuated in any patch before this.

    Furthermore, we have proof from every previous patch that there are a whole host of modifiers attached to XP. You have training gear, XP scrolls and food, event boosts that apply all around gains to XP gained. Then we have racial and class abilities that modify XP gain in other ways. We know that XP also levels weapon/class skill lines uniquely. Dark Elves notably gain a 15% racial bonus (Ashland) to leveling their dual-wield abilities. That means that XP earned increases the rate of progress on those abilities but not others. When those abilities are maxed, you no apply XP gain to them.

    Then we also have things like group size bonuses which increase XP earned but also splits it. We have systems in the game that effectively award no XP despite participation. We know this because before CP if you were too far above other group members in combat you earned nothing thanks to your differences.

    It would be ridiculous to tie the total amount of XP earned to what your CP is. No other system in the game works that way as you face reciprocal effects going one way and then potentially the other. Nerfs and Boosts.



    GAIN A SET AMOUNT OF XP, IT GETS EXCHANGED IN A COUNTER AND WIPED FOR A CP

    This logically makes the most sense. It's clear that there are likely ways to modify the XP to CP gain from every other system in the game. Doing so will probably become clear when an inevitable item that rewards CP points comes into existence. Think about a food/item that if found rewards a single CP point. That wouldn't translate into a specific XP amount because that varies from CP point to CP point. It would have to be a point exchange outside of XP. A bunch of systems in the game work that way already, why should you think CP is any different.


    TLDR

    Total XP earned to CP is not a straight exchange. The way the entire ESO system uses XP and AP as a currency for gains requires this to be so. Otherwise the failure of one system like XP leads directly to the collapse of other systems.
  • Starlock
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    PizzaCat82 wrote: »
    People either don't realize that if the game had the same level progression that everyone had to take from the beginning this game would be so unfriendly to new players, or if they were "refunded all XP" they earned for a larger CP amount then there'd be nothing to work toward once the new changes did come through.

    People also don't realize this can be a both/and rather than an either/or:

    The developers can take into account the need to dial down progression in XP for new players

    - AND -

    Respect the experience that current players legitimately earned by calculating their new CP based on XP earned

    As I recall, this was the approach taken when VR was converted to CP in the first place. Why this isn't being done now is... well, it's weird.
  • FlaviusPK
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    Guys please all calm down and pre-purchase Blackwood. 😏
  • spartaxoxo
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    Flamebait wrote: »
    Erelah wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

    The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

    You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

    Many stores do offer after X time if things go on sale the will refund you the difference.

    That I find very hard to believe, I have never once in my life seen any store that would refund you for purchasing an item before said item went on a sale or price discount. Please feel free to give actual real world examples of the stores that do this. Especially when considering that people are talking about years worth not something that you got to the checkout with as they changed the price. Either way I am fine with the way it is going now.

    I have gotten refunded if the sale was within 24 hours before. Never more than that though.
  • Katahdin
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    I am going to have the same number of CP before and after the patch.
    I dont see the problem
    Beta tester November 2013
  • trackdemon5512
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Flamebait wrote: »
    Erelah wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

    The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

    You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

    Many stores do offer after X time if things go on sale the will refund you the difference.

    That I find very hard to believe, I have never once in my life seen any store that would refund you for purchasing an item before said item went on a sale or price discount. Please feel free to give actual real world examples of the stores that do this. Especially when considering that people are talking about years worth not something that you got to the checkout with as they changed the price. Either way I am fine with the way it is going now.

    I have gotten refunded if the sale was within 24 hours before. Never more than that though.

    Yup. I'm sure ZOS refunded all those players who bought Imperial City right before it went from paid DLC to free. That of course doesn't mean that every player who ever bought the same DLC is entitled to the refund.

    Customer service has also made exceptions for homes and other DLCs that were purchased unknowingly before an immediate sale.

    As you rightly point out there is a time period where such adjustments are fair and logical. Asking to go all the way back to Day 1 now when the exchange rates of XP to CP have changed substantially over the years goes way too far. If my job increases base pay I can ask for an adjustment for a recent amount of time. I can't ask them to adjust and reward me for the last 10 years though. That's just ridiculous.
  • furiouslog
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    I’ve seen pretty much all of the various positions on this issue, and it comes down to two different perspectives:

    1. A CP Is a CP regardless of effort spent to achieve it.
    2. A CP represents a certain amount of ability progression that is earned though a certain amount of effort.

    Those are basically a matter of opinion, so someone who thinks either won’t be convinced of the alternative viewpoint.

    There are additional perspectives on the relative value of CP before and after the patch about where there is not universal consensus that further complicate the perspectives on what A CP represents and what constitutes a fair implementation of the new system.

    None of you are going to get anyone else to fundamentally agree with you on any of this that doesn’t already agree with you. All you can do is make your views known in the appropriate consumer feedback venues and if you get no remedy for your issues, make the choice that is best for you going forward.

  • Rezdayn
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    furiouslog wrote: »
    I’ve seen pretty much all of the various positions on this issue, and it comes down to two different perspectives:

    1. A CP Is a CP regardless of effort spent to achieve it.
    2. A CP represents a certain amount of ability progression that is earned though a certain amount of effort.

    Those are basically a matter of opinion, so someone who thinks either won’t be convinced of the alternative viewpoint.

    There are additional perspectives on the relative value of CP before and after the patch about where there is not universal consensus that further complicate the perspectives on what A CP represents and what constitutes a fair implementation of the new system.

    None of you are going to get anyone else to fundamentally agree with you on any of this that doesn’t already agree with you. All you can do is make your views known in the appropriate consumer feedback venues and if you get no remedy for your issues, make the choice that is best for you going forward.

    Agree. I personally wont want to pay money to a company that is 100% okay with making my time redundant. I understand some people wont agree. Most people think "seeing a different" opinion means "personal attack". So getting your opinion out so the company can see often makes people get defensive in a weirdly personal way.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Starlock wrote: »
    As I recall, this was the approach taken when VR was converted to CP in the first place. Why this isn't being done now is... well, it's weird.

    @Starlock ... A lot of people don't understand how CP and XP work in this game.

    I am seeing a lot of cases where people are going under the assumption that some fixed value of XP translates to a fixed value of CP, and that has not been the case since the launch of Champion System catch-up system.

    ZOS uses a formula based on the Max CP that calculates how many XP are needed to get the next point. This formula is designed to give CP quickly, at the start, and slow down as the player gets closer to Max CP. After Max CP, the formula continues to increase the amount of XP required for the next champion point. The formula has nothing to do with the total XP has been earned, only how many XP has been earned since the last point was awarded.

    The total XP columns you see in the spreadsheets are because the person making the spreadsheet decided to keep a running total. For anyone who got their account to the champion level before Max CP was 810, that column is inaccurate.

    Since 2015, each time ZOS has increased the Max CP, the formula for calculating the XP required for the next point has been adjusted accordingly. The net result is that CP have been getting cheaper each time they have increased Max CP every time since catch-up was introduced in 2015.

    I will say that again. Since 2015, each time they have increased the Max CP, the number of XP required for a new player to get from CP 0 to CP 3600 has decreased.

    Now, the cap is 3600, but they have placed the "formula cap" at 1800. Same formula as when the cap was 810, I assume, but with the higher cap, we are seeing the lower XP requirements. As this was a dramatic jump in the cap, the XP cost reduction is dramatic, as well.

    Edit: Whoops. The answer to your question got cut... The answer to your question is that it has been the policy of ZOS to not compensate players when Max CP increases, and the XP cost of CP decreases, since they started doing both in 2015.




    Edited by Elsonso on March 7, 2021 10:52PM
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