How are you feeling about 50% of your XP earned being unceremoniously deleted for Update 29's CP 2.0

spacewolfplays

Just in case this poll gets closed like my other one . I want to clarify.

This topic is NOT about the system itself, which is what this thread here is for. My thread was not about the changes that are being made to the system. I am excited for the new system and understand why those changes are being made.

My thread was about how ZOS has not addressed that existing players are effectively losing HALF their XP, and are not being compensated for it. A completely different topic.

Sangwyne

A better way to phrase this would have been to say that the additional effort veteran players put in compared to more casual or recent newcomers will not be rewarded at the same rate as if they had waited until after the patch. Everyone's hard work still paid off, just not as much as if they had simply started later. It's analogous to being a longtime employee at a company and working your way up from 7.25 minimum wage all the way to 15 bucks, then seeing the minimum wage get hiked to 13 an hour and only seeing your hourly wage raised by a dollar. You're still making more than you were, it's just that you earned your way towards 7.75 an hour extra and now you're only making 3 more than someone who just started yesterday.

Pink_Pixie

As this thread is simply a repeat of the previous ones, with analogy's and counter arguments to those analogy's, with people saying that analogy is wrong and so on....which the other threads did touch on. And simply having the same outcome as before, and the same people posting the same responses.

ZOS have given us a answer which is here on this thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563606/cp-2-0-faq/p1

And are giving us a free pet from this event, which raises more dissatisfaction
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563605/official-discussion-thread-for-get-a-free-pet-respecs-during-the-heroes-reforged-event/p1

Either way, we're getting nothing other than a straight swap. And if more people had chimed in way way before, it might of been different. As of now, we have to accept a pet, and the event that really isn't offering anything about race changes.

spacewolfplays

@Pink_Pixie yeah. I tried to make these different to the other threads. but of course the people paying attn to the forums are usually the same people. Saying the same things they've said before. I am new to the forum (clearly) and figured it might help to bring up a different point of view, since i was avoiding talking about the system itself. Oh well.

I didnt realize this change was happening in regards to XP earned until I read the newly published "summary" from ESO HUB earlier today: https://eso-hub.com/en/guides/champion-points-v2-explained

Merforum

Sangwyne wrote: »

A better way to phrase this would have been to say that the additional effort veteran players put in compared to more casual or recent newcomers will not be rewarded at the same rate as if they had waited until after the patch. Everyone's hard work still paid off, just not as much as if they had simply started later. It's analogous to being a longtime employee at a company and working your way up from 7.25 minimum wage all the way to 15 bucks, then seeing the minimum wage get hiked to 13 an hour and only seeing your hourly wage raised by a dollar. You're still making more than you were, it's just that you earned your way towards 7.75 an hour extra and now you're only making 3 more than someone who just started yesterday.

Yeah but that only explains the effect going forward from this point. The moment the change takes effect there is a huge transition and we are getting robbed. It is like I said if I agreed to working for $100/hr for 50 hours, I completed my work, then I was told no we will only pay you $50/hr for those 50 hours you ALREADY worked. It is perfectly proper for them to say they will only pay $50/hr going forward but not proper to agree on $100/hr AFTER the work is done then only pay $50/hr. As I said a fairer way would have been to split the difference for the transition, it would still be robbery but wouldn't hurt as much.

Pink_Pixie

No problem @spacewolfplays hopefully your introduction to the forums wasn't to painful!

tmbrinks

Merforum wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

A better way to phrase this would have been to say that the additional effort veteran players put in compared to more casual or recent newcomers will not be rewarded at the same rate as if they had waited until after the patch. Everyone's hard work still paid off, just not as much as if they had simply started later. It's analogous to being a longtime employee at a company and working your way up from 7.25 minimum wage all the way to 15 bucks, then seeing the minimum wage get hiked to 13 an hour and only seeing your hourly wage raised by a dollar. You're still making more than you were, it's just that you earned your way towards 7.75 an hour extra and now you're only making 3 more than someone who just started yesterday.

Yeah but that only explains the effect going forward from this point. The moment the change takes effect there is a huge transition and we are getting robbed. It is like I said if I agreed to working for $100/hr for 50 hours, I completed my work, then I was told no we will only pay you $50/hr for those 50 hours you ALREADY worked. It is perfectly proper for them to say they will only pay $50/hr going forward but not proper to agree on $100/hr AFTER the work is done then only pay $50/hr. As I said a fairer way would have been to split the difference for the transition, it would still be robbery but wouldn't hurt as much.

It's like you got paid $50 an hour, and could buy a certain amount of goods with that $50 an hour.

Later, the job raises the pay to $100 an hour, but the goods you buy remain the same cost (yes, not exactly our situation, but the 50% change still applies, just doing things in reverse for the sake of keeping the analogy similar to above)

Now you're asking to be able to buy double the things based on the previous hours worked. You're claiming that if you had been on the new system ($100 an hour) you would have been able to buy all the same stuff you have now with half the time. So you should be entitled to having twice the stuff.

Yes, the new people who only do work at $100 an hour are going to be able to buy the same amount of stuff you were able to buy in half the time. And that's okay.

Dagoth_Rac

Merforum wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

spacewolfplays wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You traded a currency (XP) for CP.

The exchange rate changed. CP became cheaper.

You wouldn't demand a refund in real life, when a business lowers a price after you bought it.

Wow, @tmbrinks, a currency changing, and a business lowering its prices are two totally different things. When currencies get inflated, as is happening here with XP, business actually have to RAISE their prices. Not the other way around.

So you might wanna reevaluate how you feel about all this if thats what you thought.

I have very clearly stated how I "feel" about all of this in the other dozen threads... and I'm sure I'm "losing" more XP than anybody else commenting on this.

Afterall, you're linking to my spreadsheet

This is AT LEAST the 12th time this has happened in the game's history.

The lowering of the curve is a catch-up mechanic. It's healthy and needed for new players.

yah. I totally hear you. Also glad to hear whose spreadsheet it is (would you mind dragging down the header barrier to under row two, so the headers can scroll? tyvm).

But I just wanted to clarify that your analogy was wrong, and if that's the way you were thinking you were misinformed.

I also understand it's happened before, and I feel like anytime this happens, people who "lose" XP should be compensated. Just cause it was done wrong before doesnt mean it cant be done right this time.

Adding "It's worth it" to the poll was a mistake on my part. Because I also agree that it's worth it. My frustrations are as stated above.

You bought something for $400. A year later it's $300. Most are asking for the $100 returned to them

But please... tell me again how I'm "wrong" When it's a difference of opinion.

That's an absolute backwards analogy. A proper analogy would be as an IT contractor agreed to work for ZOS and they agreed to pay me $5000 for small project and I worked my butt off did a great job and now they are saying guess what I'll give you $3000 but thanks for your hard work.

I actually totally agree with lowering the necessary XP to get CP faster at lower level but for people who have been slogging along for years to earn a huge amount of XP should get benefit of doubt too. ZOS had a choice to give us our CP equivalent or our XP equivalent in new system and chose lower one. The fairest would be to split the difference and give halfway between the 2.

I doubt ZOS know how much XP everyone has earned. I have played since the cap was 501. I have played above cap almost forever. I earned a lot of CP back when every CP, whether #1 or #3600, cost 400,000 XP. While newer players with same CP as me have played below cap for a long time and probably got to that CP with much less XP than me. ZOS may know that person X and person Y both have 1000 XP, but knowing exactly how much XP each player spent on each of those 1000 individual CP, is unlikely to be data they saved. You would need a history of exactly what day each player earned each CP, and a history of exactly what each CP cost every day. I doubt they have that info.

Basically, most of the people going into CP2.0 with same CP as me probably spent considerably XP less to get there. Most of the players I have played with this last year or so, who have been at same CP810 cap as me, probably earned far less XP to get to CP810 than I earned to get to CP810. It is already the case that newer players have gotten just as strong as me with less XP. Oh, well. I am just glad they have enough CP to be competitive. It gives me more people to play with.

renne

It's annoying, but short of doing the calculations per level/CP ourselves we don't actually have anywhere the amount of XP we've earned over the years per toon and on account so... technically nothing is going away.

danno8

ZoS should have stopped all CP progression at the cap, whatever it was at the time.

Allowing people to accumulate extra CP (unusable of course but people still feel that they "earned" it) was a mistake and now some people feel like they are losing something. Even though that something only ever had phantom worth.

Personally I could care less about anything that I gained after hitting 810, since I knew-and I think most people knew-that one day CP was going to get an overhaul and everything above 810 was going to vanish in some way.

tmbrinks

danno8 wrote: »

ZoS should have stopped all CP progression at the cap, whatever it was at the time.

Allowing people to accumulate extra CP (unusable of course but people still feel that they "earned" it) was a mistake and now some people feel like they are losing something. Even though that something only ever had phantom worth.

Personally I could care less about anything that I gained after hitting 810, since I knew-and I think most people knew-that one day CP was going to get an overhaul and everything above 810 was going to vanish in some way.

They very well could have.

All those screaming for "parity" this might very well be the "solution" that ZoS could have taken... and that would unequivocally be worse than what they're doing.

Kiralyn2000

danno8 wrote: »

Allowing people to accumulate extra CP (unusable of course but people still feel that they "earned" it) was a mistake and now some people feel like they are losing something. Even though that something only ever had phantom worth.

And in a typical game, where you hit the cap, all XP you "earned" after that point would be thrown away into the aether anyway. Do these people just stop playing those games, because they'll be "losing" that XP, and "wasting their effort"?


(seriously, in games like WoW or Borderlands, I've probably earned enough XP to level half a dozen other characters to the cap, but that doesn't make me say "oh, I need that XP back!" when they increase the level cap in an expansion.)

---

So, yeah - "I'm indifferent" because I don't feel that any of my XP is "being deleted", and I think that looking at it that way is silly. And that the word "compensation" gets thrown around way too much, and for way too minor things, these days.

TequilaFire

Why doesn't all the XP I earned before I use an XP boost scroll get increased as well as the new XP I earn after I use the scroll.

zaria

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

And that the word "compensation" gets thrown around way too much, and for way too minor things, these days.

I killed Almalexia in TES 3 Morrowind, why do this not earn an godslayer title in ESO?

Shantu

I've learned to just pay my sub for the craft bag, stop throwing money at the CS, and expect nothing from this company. Makes playing the game a lot less frustrating.

kargen27

spacewolfplays wrote: »

Just in case this poll gets closed like my other one . I want to clarify.

This topic is NOT about the system itself, which is what this thread here is for. My thread was not about the changes that are being made to the system. I am excited for the new system and understand why those changes are being made.

My thread was about how ZOS has not addressed that existing players are effectively losing HALF their XP, and are not being compensated for it. A completely different topic.

You are losing nothing. Others are gaining quicker than you gained. Really common across most these types of games. They want to appeal to new players. One way to do that is to make it easier to get near top levels. No matter how you state it you are complaining that new players are being allowed to do something faster than you did it. You are complaining about a dynamic that will be good for the long term health of the game.

Danikat

It doesn't bother me at all, but then I've never farmed XP in this game. I just do activities I want to do, and get XP along the way, so I don't feel like I'm losing anything because the XP was incidental to what I actually wanted, which was usually just to complete that content.

AlnilamE

spacewolfplays wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You spend your XP to buy CP. The cost of the "new" CP has gone down.

You're still getting paid the same, the amount of XP you can earn in the game has not changed.

I like this. It helps me feel a little better about it.

I'm still frustrated, but this is probably the best, and somehow the most comforting analogy yet.

But then I think about how this isnt an organic economy, it's a manufactured system. Which choices and changes being made. So though I had a brief 2 minutes of calm, I still stand by the request for acknowledgement at the LEAST, and compensation at best.

As others have pointed out, if you played through the different systems (VRs and then CP without a cap and a flat 400k per point, then with a cap and scaled XP formula, which was then raised multiple times), then so much of your XP has already fallen through the cracks that this change is small potatoes.

The way I look at it, for the first time since the Champion System was introduced, I'm going to need less than 400K XP to earn a champion point (for about 150 champion points, but I'll take it).

For the first time since they introduced a cap, I'm going to be below that cap (which is why I'm happy they changed their minds and moved it from 1020 to 1800). I'll be able to earn CP at a decent clip AND I'll be able to use it.

I've not earned a champion point that I could immediately apply since they introduced the cap several years ago.

This is a welcome change for me.

kojou

Would you rather they didn't change the scaling? Then you would not have to feel like you are losing XP.

fred4

FlaviusPK

This is normal for ZOS. Remember vMA "rework" for example.

xaraan

Annoyed, but expected.

Those with a lot of "earned xp" (though it was only tracked in the sense of having X number of vet level characters) got shafted when CP first rolled out. We had to fight to not be completely screwed over by the rollout. Those of us that had a lot of CP have been constantly squeezed to slow our earnings on CP patch after patch as they raised it, despite there being no need since it was capped at what you could spend.

Those that have run vMA countless times to farm gear were told to shove off by staff and zos fanboys alike at having to rerun the same content to re-earn vMA drops. (Sure, they didn't take the nMA weapons from us, we all heard the excuses, but someone running the same content I did gets a better drop now). And those are just two obvious standouts. There is also the countless times they've made content easier to run (in addition to power creep already making it easier) so that vets had to work hard and those coming along later have it handed to them. The fact that it used to be monumentally harder to earn XP and AP in the game than it is now. etc etc

Some of this is expected in a game like this. There will always be catch up mechanics and power creep. But zos seems to double down and actually punish players for being veterans and that's the part that gets annoying.

stefj68

I have 36 characters, 2 full account to grind again, do you think i am happy... lol...

already did 2 end billing on those 2 accounts

i have enough experience earned on my 1st account to be around 1500cp
i have enough experience on the 2nd to be close to 810cp

thousand of hours, all quests done, and yes they are wiping xp, but not wiphing quest completion, so we can't redo... i will have to grind just killing mobs over and over, no more questing... oh ya... unless i delete some characters and start over :P

real nice!

Merforum

b7e5 0069

Czeri

I can't say I worry too much about losing experience, as it's a very abstract concept. However, having taken a look at the PTS forum I am worried about losing QoL perks I currently have, like plentiful harvest, master gatherer or treasure hunter. It seems they will require a heck of a lot more champion points under the new system, and I'm not entirely clear whether I'll qualify or not. In addition, apparently they'll need to be actively slotted once unlocked, with limited slots available?

PizzaCat82

I'm at CP 1500. I got most of that (from 690) above the soft cap. I'll probably eventually hit 3600 and then keep going.

I don't really need extra XP for my troubles.

Merforum

Actually I was going by what I read in forums which is big mistake. If they are just transferring the CP in current mode directly over then disregard above. For instance if it says you have 1000 CP based on current system and give 1000CP in new system that is good.

tmbrinks

Merforum wrote: »

Actually I was going by what I read in forums which is big mistake. If they are just transferring the CP in current mode directly over then disregard above. For instance if it says you have 1000 CP based on current system and give 1000CP in new system that is good.

That is exactly what's happening. Whatever your current CP is on Live is what you'll have Monday when the new patch goes live on PC.

AlexanderDeLarge

spacewolfplays wrote: »

They're changing the scale of how much XP it takes to level.

What previously took 112,139,960 XP to reach CP 600, will now only require 61,680,386, a change of 45%. To me, personally, that XP represents time I spent on the game. So to me, having the thing that basically defines a big chunk of my character, their level, stay the same, without acknowledging this change, makes me really angry.

I never realized it was that significant. Wow. That's ridiculous.

OneWingedAnge7

I don't feel cheated or anything and I'm a day 1 player. I'd equally be just as content if they honestly just gave everyone 3600 cp as soon as they hit level 50 and just be done with the whole thing.