Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

renne

Jaraal wrote: »

renne wrote: »

"doing a thing until Q3 when we can manage the code better".

They've been unsuccessfully trying to manage the code better for six years. Why do you think they'll be able to do it in six months?

That has nothing to do with what Im talking about. If it did, why are you only now and about this complaining about the mats you've spent and not for all the sets you've improved that they've made obsolete in the past?

Deep_01

I'd rather deal with proc sets than not theory crafting builds.

SshadowSscale

regime211 wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

The no procs has been very popular with people including myself and a lot of old players/people who quit have come back to the game as no procs makes the game significantly more balanced. I think it is a good that they are keeping no procs going, imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!

where did you read that they said they would be changing the coding to make seducer work?

Read Gina's post again She said they will be working on their coding TO ALLOW MORE FLEXIBLE RULE SET REGARDING PROCS wich will be ready at Q3...... seriously you people need to learn to actually read and not just have a knee jerk reaction

Sarousse

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort.

This is rougly what @ZOS_BrianWheeler said in 2015 during an ESO live (after lightning patch) when people started being unhappy about lag in Cyrodiil.

6 years later, same words. How can we take that seriously ?

VaranisArano

This reminds me very strongly of the faction-locked campaign argument in which, when it seemed very unlikely to happen, the proponents of faction locks kept debating in favor of it, while many of it's opponents largely let it slide because "surely ZOS won't indulge them, right?"

But then ZOS did, and though faction lock opponents came out of the woodwork to complain about it, it was too late.


Let's not pretend there haven't been years of debaters saying "ZOS should remove proc sets," or "PVP should be about skill", or even "ZOS should limit the sets in Cyrodiil to help balance!" That's been a fairly consistent, recurring strain in PVP discussions and it's not that surprising that without consistent, vocal opposition that the Devs decided to give it a try.

Then add on the several forum threads of positive feedback for no-proc gameplay, and it's pretty clear that most of the feedback ZOS got was positive. Of course the people who don't like the change are complaining now, but in all likelihood, it'll be Q3 before their feedback gets put into effect.


I also hear some ragging on the minority of forum goers who polled in favor of no-proc sets. Have you considered that some people learned their lesson from the faction lock debate? if you want ZOS to take your side, you've got to advocate for it consistently. You can't just not say anything and expect ZOS to go out of their way to poll you. Really? Since when have they ever polled their PVP playerbase over sweeping changes to see if we like the current meta? If you don't like a proposed change, say something when it comes up on the forums, not just after ZOS has announced it! ZOS may not listen, but at least they heard you before the changes were locked in to the next update.

Otherwise, you end up like many opponents of the faction lock: looking on with dismay as ZOS listens to the fans who did consistently advocate for their desired change instead of what you believe to be a "silent majority" who oppose it.

Eclipse0990

IMO, they need to atleast allow 5 piece stat sets which don't need a player in combat. Like Seducer, Necropotence, Bright-throat etc. And they need to remove the combat requirements that they are adding to seventh legion to make it fit back in the above category.
I understand that they cannot rework these sets that fast but they can start on it in an incremental way.

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

The no procs has been very popular with people including myself and a lot of old players/people who quit have come back to the game as no procs makes the game significantly more balanced. I think it is a good that they are keeping no procs going, imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!

where did you read that they said they would be changing the coding to make seducer work?

Read Gina's post again She said they will be working on their coding TO ALLOW MORE FLEXIBLE RULE SET REGARDING PROCS wich will be ready at Q3...... seriously you people need to learn to actually read and not just have a knee jerk reaction

Yes, in 6 months.
That's what people are upset about, nothing knee jerk.
6 flipping months.

Seraphayel

Demonhunter wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

The no procs has been very popular with people including myself and a lot of old players/people who quit have come back to the game as no procs makes the game significantly more balanced. I think it is a good that they are keeping no procs going, imagine having to use skills in PvP to do damage and heal so many people have got used to their armor doing it for them. Plus they are going to change the coding of gear such as Seducer to work in Cyro, so there will be more build diversity soon!

You realize most mmorpg's including the classic WoW back when it was very popular used proc sets. All of a sudden people are happy cause their able to survive longer with mediocre sets. I mean is it really skill or just being in a group that's carrying you? I fail to see using proc sets removes skill, just make the proc sets work on a combo move instead of auto conditions. That way you have to work at it so that your proc set triggers instead of a chance of triggering. Or a way to build up combo points and releasing it at the right moment.

1. WoW had very, very few sets compared to ESO.

2. Proc sets in WoW never were detached from using actual skills and only improved upon them. There were no independent damage or healing procs not tied to any of the class abilities.

3. Sets synergized with classes and improved upon basic skills and modified them, they never been a contributing factor in the ranges they are in ESO.

4. You always good wear one of those very very few proc sets and not multiple at the same time.

Please don’t bring WoW sets into this, they’ve been completely different.

Rhaegar75

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

Sanguinor2

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

Page 1 original post.

vesselwiththepestle

Many players I spoke with in the last hours said they did not provide negative feedback on the test, because they all expected it to be a temporary test to gain data on performance. Three weeks - ok. We could endure that. Now 6 months - that is something else. Three of our guild officers / raid leaders unsubscribed from ESO+ today. That is why you are seeing an outcry now, you didn't see before. I guess not only in my guild, but in guilds everywhere players were just silent, because they just wanted to get those TESTS over with. Oh, well, some just played other games. It was funny to see, how after one week of tests several big and established pvp guilds just disappeared from the campaign. Some of them might never come back.

I am very eager to see how server population will evolve now without double AP. Maybe PVP can attract new players, maybe some former pve players will now switch to pvp, maybe more beginners will have fun in pvp and stay. If you can keep the main campaigns pop-locked, I guess it won't matter if you lose some of your player-base.

That said, considering this will be 6 MONTHS, and procs might never return as they were, you should adress class balancing ASAP. That means not in 3 months. That means NOW. You need to hot-fix some stuff ASAP.

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

First post... There was only one change (they missed Shacklebreaker first) and the list got updated accordingly.

Daviiid_ESO

Is this a joke? So all the DLC's and expansions people bought they won't be able to use the gear from any more?

Artorias24

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

While i like this i also would like some sets to be added to the working ones. Sets that are a "proc" but only buff your stats. Like Clever Alchemist, Bloodspawn, Balorgh, Stuhn. Sets where their intention is to just deal damage/heal by its own arent healthy for the game indeed. But sets that just buff your stats on its "proc" could be enabled again? Also since you mentioned it doesnt have any big impact on performance.

hands0medevil

Artorias24 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

While i like this i also would like some sets to be added to the working ones. Sets that are a "proc" but only buff your stats. Like Clever Alchemist, Bloodspawn, Balorgh, Stuhn. Sets where their intention is to just deal damage/heal by its own arent healthy for the game indeed. But sets that just buff your stats on its "proc" could be enabled again? Also since you mentioned it doesnt have any big impact on performance.

They could only disable or nerf Crimson. But now out of almost 400 sets we have only dozen working in Cyro

synnerman

PvP is practically the only part of the game I play every single day...apart from when I have to farm gear from pve etc and get stuff to upgrade. Over the last 3 weeks I have been logging off earlier and earlier each evening because of the lack of activity and this announcement is the straw that broke the camels back for me.
Thanks for saving me money on the new expansion and come Monday I will unsub from eso + as you have gone way too far will the gear cull so I think you may sort the lag in pvp as the number of players in cyrodiil will drastically reduce. Maybe thats what zos actually want.

Rhaegar75

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

Page 1 original post.

it's incomplete: missing Trainee for example

Katheriah

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

Page 1 original post.

it's incomplete: missing Trainee for example

No 2 on the list.

The list really is that short.

Rhaegar75

Katheriah wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

guys where can I find a complete and comprehensive list of what sets are actually available? I'm not too keen on reading 32 pages to identify each individual change. Thank you!!

Page 1 original post.

it's incomplete: missing Trainee for example

No 2 on the list.

The list really is that short.

oooops

Rhaegar75

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

no more death recaps with Zaan+Vat Staff....awesome
No more dying to Icy Conj and Ice Furnace when you fight a MagDen with 1M health
No more misery from merciless + unleash + 3rd crappy proc...melting you in seconds


I'd love to have a wider choice of sets but the proc set meta was getting quite tedious and soooo toxic

RDMyers65b14_ESO

ZOS, please listen. This has been pointed out for well over a year now. If you want to increase performance in Cyrodiil, then you need to stop the faction stacking. This is the cause of the lag. Maybe turn on 'friendly fire' for those not in the group. It is the only way to improve the performance. When you have faction stacks, that is when the lag happens and the crashing starts. Certain people have bragged in this forum before of stacking no less than 78 players together. It is common now to see 50+ players of the same faction running to the same place. There are groups that think stacking so many players in one place and lagging out the server is fun. Having vast numbers is the only way they can win.

Jayserix

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jayserix wrote: »

Well I guess this shows who were CARRIED by gear all along heh ... These guys PRETEND they're pvp players and cry because some gear isn't available.

Cyrodiil is till there, all the objectives, all the players ... everything is there but some gear. And what happens ? Yep it's like stepping in a maternity : hundreds of newborns crying on top of their lungs.

This is sad to see

Let me guess, you main a magsorc?

Guilty as charged :')

Beardimus

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

Szende

Beardimus wrote: »

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

It is quite selfish afterall. I did not used these proc sets, even hated them sometimes, but i rather fight and deal with them than limiting the variety of builds to a small number, killing theorycrafting completly.

If you cannot deal with a player using proc sets, you probably not as good in pvp as you think about yourself. Sometimes it can get you, but based on personal experience, the most dangerious players always fought without these proc sets.

Some player really should tune down their ego a bit and thinking a bit outside of the box...

Vyseman

Szende wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

It is quite selfish afterall. I did not used these proc sets, even hated them sometimes, but i rather fight and deal with them than limiting the variety of builds to a small number, killing theorycrafting completly.

If you cannot deal with a player using proc sets, you probably not as good in pvp as you think about yourself. Sometimes it can get you, but based on personal experience, the most dangerious players always fought without these proc sets.

Some player really should tune down their ego a bit and thinking a bit outside of the box...

True words

Rhaegar75

Beardimus wrote: »

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

similar thinking to mine. I don't even mind damage procs or ultra defensive ones but not as they are now. Sadly the recent meta has pushed towards unkillable tanks that dish out an awful lot of damage just because they are using certain sets.....jump around, light attack and press 1 button: procs will do the job!

I'd be more than happy to use and fight with proc sets on but they would have to be seriously tuned down!!!


@Szende sadly the variety went out of the window quite quickly.
Most Stam players use Syvarra + Crimson or will stick to Unleashed + Merciless...if they are innovative they will use sheer venom instead
Mag wise...how many Zaan + Vat Staff are we fighting in BG?

Vyseman

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

similar thinking to mine. I don't even mind damage procs or ultra defensive ones but not as they are now. Sadly the recent meta has pushed towards unkillable tanks that dish out an awful lot of damage just because they are using certain sets.....jump around, light attack and press 1 button: procs will do the job!

I'd be more than happy to use and fight with proc sets on but they would have to be seriously tuned down!!!


@Szende sadly the variety went out of the window quite quickly.
Most Stam players use Syvarra + Crimson or will stick to Unleashed + Merciless...if they are innovative they will use sheer venom instead
Mag wise...how many Zaan + Vat Staff are we fighting in BG?

i realy dont know why ppls are cryin about Crimson. The Set is totaly terrible! Since everyone know how the Profeffect is looking, everyone walks out of it. so no Heal and no damage for you. There are sets like Alessian MUCH better cuz it gives you a constant heal (HP Rec)


And if you just change a bit your playstile you can laugh about dmg procsets, you can easily outplay them and doin also alot of dmg

Beardimus

PoppaVape wrote: »

Interesting. I assumed Mighty Chudan and Slimecraw would work. Neither set procs as a condition of anything other than simply being equipped. Are you making ALL Monster sets irrelevant? Or was this an oversight as well? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

@PoppaVape did this get an answer as I too would have thought Chud and Slime where ok.

I'm console to didn't take part and haven't kept up with threads on this.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

Szende wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

bluehomeos wrote: »

Seriously???This is really lazy solution... Cyro will be horribly boring

Seriously? What's boring is one light attack 15 animations and 5 attacks in a death recap.

The change the opposite of boring.

I do support stat proc sets but damage proc flashy OP unicorn fire bombs firing out of your armpits yeah they can do one

It is quite selfish afterall. I did not used these proc sets, even hated them sometimes, but i rather fight and deal with them than limiting the variety of builds to a small number, killing theorycrafting completly.

If you cannot deal with a player using proc sets, you probably not as good in pvp as you think about yourself. Sometimes it can get you, but based on personal experience, the most dangerious players always fought without these proc sets.

Some player really should tune down their ego a bit and thinking a bit outside of the box...

True, but they can't hear you. They already streaked away.

red_emu

VaranisArano wrote: »

This reminds me very strongly of the faction-locked campaign argument in which, when it seemed very unlikely to happen, the proponents of faction locks kept debating in favor of it, while many of it's opponents largely let it slide because "surely ZOS won't indulge them, right?"

But then ZOS did, and though faction lock opponents came out of the woodwork to complain about it, it was too late.


Let's not pretend there haven't been years of debaters saying "ZOS should remove proc sets," or "PVP should be about skill", or even "ZOS should limit the sets in Cyrodiil to help balance!" That's been a fairly consistent, recurring strain in PVP discussions and it's not that surprising that without consistent, vocal opposition that the Devs decided to give it a try.

Then add on the several forum threads of positive feedback for no-proc gameplay, and it's pretty clear that most of the feedback ZOS got was positive. Of course the people who don't like the change are complaining now, but in all likelihood, it'll be Q3 before their feedback gets put into effect.


I also hear some ragging on the minority of forum goers who polled in favor of no-proc sets. Have you considered that some people learned their lesson from the faction lock debate? if you want ZOS to take your side, you've got to advocate for it consistently. You can't just not say anything and expect ZOS to go out of their way to poll you. Really? Since when have they ever polled their PVP playerbase over sweeping changes to see if we like the current meta? If you don't like a proposed change, say something when it comes up on the forums, not just after ZOS has announced it! ZOS may not listen, but at least they heard you before the changes were locked in to the next update.

Otherwise, you end up like many opponents of the faction lock: looking on with dismay as ZOS listens to the fans who did consistently advocate for their desired change instead of what you believe to be a "silent majority" who oppose it.

While I agree, that the silent half of PvPers did not submit feedback, let's face it, there are two simple reasons for that:

1. We have been lied to. We were told this is a test for performance and submitted feedback accordingly. Not at any point have we been told that this is a "gameplay balance" test. We have been tricked!
2. The moment you mention that you like proc sets (I am one of those as I like the extra flavour and visual fidelity to my builds) you are instantly shamed and bullied by the non-proc fans. A friend of mine ended up quitting the game after she advocated to keep the procs because of the amount of abuse she got in game.

All in all. ZOS asked the wrong question and is now interpreting the feedback to suit their own agenda without having to take any responsibility for the outcomes.

spotzhopz

Well i was just about to renew my eso plus fpr another year and order the new expansion on monday, but whats the point if i cant use any of the sets in cyro. I guess once the change comes to console ill be playing in IC. Like dont get me wrong some of the procs are annoyong, but half of the fun of pvp in this game was coming up with new intresting builds