Fake Tanking

Sarannah

josiahva wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

A tank's job isn't easy. One dungeon you are the hero(most of the time), and everyone wants to keep queuing the next pledge with you. Yet the next dungeon you are called names.

All this makes me think about who is in charge in a dungeon? ... I thought everyone was supposed to follow the tank? But my guess is players aren't used to this, as they expect every tank to be a fake tank now. Instead of a real tank who controls the group, and the situations surrounding them. So for alot of things, fake tanks are the blame.

If a tank stops moving, or does not pull something, they have a reason for it! Atleast I do.

Maybe a way to stop fake tanks is having to have atleast 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped, have the entire heavy armor skillline filled out(besides ultimate), have atleast 25k resistances, have atleast one taunt equipped, and have atleast 30k hp to be able to queue as a tank role at level 50. And ofcourse being unable to change gear/skills when inside a dungeon. Not below level 50 as players will still be leveling/learning/training, so they won't be able to meet those requirements yet. But at level 50, that is the very least players should be expecting from a tank.

[snip]

1. Good tanks always carry at least a few alternate sets they need to change to at any given time...the same applies to skills.
2. You do NOT need 25k resistances to successfully tank a dungeon(with maybe a couple exceptions).
3. You do not NEED heavy armor to tank. I have a medium armor tank who does just fine(on that one I use Armor Master...haven't updated it in years or I might use fortified brass instead)
4. You do not NEED 30k health to tank...again, for the most part, there are a couple fights you simply aren't going to easily survive with less

So not a single idea of yours does ANYTHING other than pigeonholing all tanks into one specific type of build. Thats a resounding NO! The solution has been there since they implemented group finder...vote to kick. If a tank isn't doing their job...vote to kick, if they are, everything is good. If you have trouble finding a replacement....make some friends with some tanks...they will be happy to help you out if you aren't toxic.

It´s about getting rid of fake tanking. Do you mind ? The gentleman you reply to have a point. Are you able to let´´s say get 38K health and 30k resistanse on medium, light armor that´s ok, why not I´m all for it - have not tried it and se if it´s possible.

Now! How do we get rid of fake tanking ? Any suggestions ?

I have listed the solution...vote to kick. Its a solution that has been there from day one. The problem isn't fake tanking or fake DPS, or fake healing, the problem is that people refuse to use the tools they are given to solve the problem. As many others have mentioned...keeping a few spare sets of armor and a few tanking skills handy will allow anyone to tank if they can't find a replacement, vet content or not. All that is required is some knowledge of how to tank, and honestly, everyone who plays the game for any amount of time should have a basic understanding of all 3 roles. I tank about 90% of the time...but in my bank, I have various DPS and Healer sets that I can swap to at any time to perform either of those roles(maybe not well, but good enough to get through the content) in my inventory I have various heavy armor sets that will let me heal while tanking or do some DPS while tanking...so at any given time, I can swap this stuff and perform these other roles, or multiple roles at the same time....THAT is the only real solution you need to fake role-ing...alternative setups for your own characters to fill a role if a replacement for a vote-kicked member cannot be found within a decent timeframe. This mindset that your character can only do one role is false...regardless if your stat points or your CP distribution, a gear and skill swap will let you do whatever is needed. Add ons like dressing room make this easier, but it only takes a couple minutes to set it manually. Why wait for ZOS to fix a problem when the solution is within your reach?

The solution to kick players isn't a real solution, as the players who waited in queue will then have to wait in queue again for another tank. Which means their time is wasted twice, and this is without even knowing if the next tank is a fake, or if the group in general can even finish the dungeon.

Having other sets available should not be a solution either, as this just means you could have queue'd for that other role right away. And fake tanks forcing other players into a role they did not queue for, while still having to go through the longest queue time, is not something we should aim for. This makes those players victims, not players.

Fake tanks(and other fake roles) are simply cheating to get major benefits. This should never happen. And I'm generally surprised/saddened by how some players try to place the issue into the hands of those who queue'd for another role, or try to make excuses for this behaviour.

There is no absolutely no excuse for queueing as a fake role, as they can do this all day with guildies. But purposely choose not too, while negatively impacting other players.

idk

Sarannah wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

idk wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Please label yourselves fake healer if you do not provide resource regen and dps buff on top of healing, and fake dps if you cannot maintain 20k dps on boss fight and need to ban yourselves from the queue finder.

This is the only fair option from all your expectations of a tank needing be top level in normal as like it's a vet dlc, otherwise labeling him as a fake tank and trying to request banning him from queue finder. Otherwise, you are all hypocrites.

I'm just using the same logic, and by this logic, a much bigger plague in the queue finder is fake healers and dps going by pure numbers than fake tanks.

A fake healer is the only one that does not heal. The resource regen and DPS buffs are nice to have but if one is queueing for a dungeon via the GF then a tank taunting and a healer healing are really the only requirements for being real.

Want more than that then one really needs to be forming their own group.

That's my point exactly, you guys want to limit queue finder tanks to heavy armor, 35k hp, 25k resistance, taunt, crowd control etc, but you hold yourselves by a separate standard.. such hypocrites.

Fake tanks are the only role being extremely heavily abused, so putting a queue-requirement on the tank role is kinda needed. Would also make it more clear for new players what a tank basically needs.
Just because some veterans play other types of tanks does not diminish this. There could be some specific exceptions, but something is needed.
And if the cheaters switch to another role, that role should get a queue-requirement to it as well.

If a DPS(and healer) waits in queue for 20 minutes, they should get a real party. Otherwise they could just have queue'd tank as well, and that should never happen.

Some people are cheating/abusing the groupfinder system, by cutting in line unjustly, and this should be stopped ASAP. Cheaters should never be rewarded, and I would expect players to have some more moral decency towards their fellow players.

If fake-tanks want to cheese the system, they should find guildies to do it, and not make victims out of three random players. Which is extremely terrible for the game's longterm health. Especially at how often fake-tanks happen right now.

Edit: The queue-requirement for tanks needs to be something DPS and healers can't reach, otherwise it won't solve the fake tank issue. So my queue-requirements aren't that unrealistic.

@Sarannah

There is no true tank requirement other than having a taunt. Most tanks avoid already avoid the GF because of the poorly skilled players and low DPS often found in GF groups. Putting trial requirements, as you have suggested in this thread, will merely drive more actual tanks from the GF making it more making queue times even longer.

Again, a MT in medium armor has tanked vMoL HM back when it was the most challenging raid in the game. A DPS has tanked earthgore in a DPS builds outside of slotting a taunt.

These are real examples that demonstrate that requiring 5 pieces of HA or 25k resistance is very much overkill.

josiahva

Sarannah wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

A tank's job isn't easy. One dungeon you are the hero(most of the time), and everyone wants to keep queuing the next pledge with you. Yet the next dungeon you are called names.

All this makes me think about who is in charge in a dungeon? ... I thought everyone was supposed to follow the tank? But my guess is players aren't used to this, as they expect every tank to be a fake tank now. Instead of a real tank who controls the group, and the situations surrounding them. So for alot of things, fake tanks are the blame.

If a tank stops moving, or does not pull something, they have a reason for it! Atleast I do.

Maybe a way to stop fake tanks is having to have atleast 5 pieces of heavy armor equipped, have the entire heavy armor skillline filled out(besides ultimate), have atleast 25k resistances, have atleast one taunt equipped, and have atleast 30k hp to be able to queue as a tank role at level 50. And ofcourse being unable to change gear/skills when inside a dungeon. Not below level 50 as players will still be leveling/learning/training, so they won't be able to meet those requirements yet. But at level 50, that is the very least players should be expecting from a tank.

[snip]

1. Good tanks always carry at least a few alternate sets they need to change to at any given time...the same applies to skills.
2. You do NOT need 25k resistances to successfully tank a dungeon(with maybe a couple exceptions).
3. You do not NEED heavy armor to tank. I have a medium armor tank who does just fine(on that one I use Armor Master...haven't updated it in years or I might use fortified brass instead)
4. You do not NEED 30k health to tank...again, for the most part, there are a couple fights you simply aren't going to easily survive with less

So not a single idea of yours does ANYTHING other than pigeonholing all tanks into one specific type of build. Thats a resounding NO! The solution has been there since they implemented group finder...vote to kick. If a tank isn't doing their job...vote to kick, if they are, everything is good. If you have trouble finding a replacement....make some friends with some tanks...they will be happy to help you out if you aren't toxic.

It´s about getting rid of fake tanking. Do you mind ? The gentleman you reply to have a point. Are you able to let´´s say get 38K health and 30k resistanse on medium, light armor that´s ok, why not I´m all for it - have not tried it and se if it´s possible.

Now! How do we get rid of fake tanking ? Any suggestions ?

I have listed the solution...vote to kick. Its a solution that has been there from day one. The problem isn't fake tanking or fake DPS, or fake healing, the problem is that people refuse to use the tools they are given to solve the problem. As many others have mentioned...keeping a few spare sets of armor and a few tanking skills handy will allow anyone to tank if they can't find a replacement, vet content or not. All that is required is some knowledge of how to tank, and honestly, everyone who plays the game for any amount of time should have a basic understanding of all 3 roles. I tank about 90% of the time...but in my bank, I have various DPS and Healer sets that I can swap to at any time to perform either of those roles(maybe not well, but good enough to get through the content) in my inventory I have various heavy armor sets that will let me heal while tanking or do some DPS while tanking...so at any given time, I can swap this stuff and perform these other roles, or multiple roles at the same time....THAT is the only real solution you need to fake role-ing...alternative setups for your own characters to fill a role if a replacement for a vote-kicked member cannot be found within a decent timeframe. This mindset that your character can only do one role is false...regardless if your stat points or your CP distribution, a gear and skill swap will let you do whatever is needed. Add ons like dressing room make this easier, but it only takes a couple minutes to set it manually. Why wait for ZOS to fix a problem when the solution is within your reach?

The solution to kick players isn't a real solution, as the players who waited in queue will then have to wait in queue again for another tank. Which means their time is wasted twice, and this is without even knowing if the next tank is a fake, or if the group in general can even finish the dungeon.

Having other sets available should not be a solution either, as this just means you could have queue'd for that other role right away. And fake tanks forcing other players into a role they did not queue for, while still having to go through the longest queue time, is not something we should aim for. This makes those players victims, not players.

Fake tanks(and other fake roles) are simply cheating to get major benefits. This should never happen. And I'm generally surprised/saddened by how some players try to place the issue into the hands of those who queue'd for another role, or try to make excuses for this behaviour.

There is no absolutely no excuse for queueing as a fake role, as they can do this all day with guildies. But purposely choose not too, while negatively impacting other players.

Fair enough...but your solution is no solution either. If they implemented your restrictions...then I would be stuck doing 3k DPS in a base vet dungeon...this does NOT help when group DPS is a whopping 12k. I ran Elden hollow 1 a few days ago as the tank. I wore Leeching Plate, Bahraha's Curse, and Zaan...why did I do this? Because I know when I queue for a base-game vet dungeon its more likely than not that the DPS will be low. I slotted some damage skills and pulled somewhere between 12k and 15k DPS single target...and sure enough...the entire dungeon I was doing somewhere between 45% and 50% of the damage while tanking, taunting the threats, pulling in ads, CCing enemies, etc. I could have worn tanking sets and through passive buffs/debuffs raised group DPS by maybe 2k DPS...which was the better solution? raise group DPS to 30k unrestricted or raise group DPS to 17k because I would be restricted in my sets and skills? I performed all the basic functions of a tank, but did not buff or debuff beyond puncture(and mild support in the form of orbs)....I wasn't exactly fake tanking, but my build certainly wouldn't fit within your proposed restrictions. If I was restricted the way you want, the run would have taken TWICE as long. I suppose you could make the argument that runs like that would force random DPS to get better, but I doubt they would. I am not at all opposed to solving the problem of fake tanking...I just don't believe there is any way to do so that would not stifle different tanking builds and punish tanks that run different sets and skills.

Fake tanking is a problem...but lets be realistic here shall we? "Fake" or low DPS and healers that don't heal are also a problem...how do you plan to handle those roles.

A couple years ago you could queue in group finder as multiple roles, I loved it when you could do that...I ran a character that could fill any role with a quick gear swap and skill change and I clicked all 3 roles. I never had a complaint on any role that I filled when it was like that...its true that I would only select the roles that were appropriate for the content I was running...if I was running a vet DLC dungeon, I would only select tank....but for easier dungeons, I would select all 3 and just fill whatever was needed. But people complained because people were fake tanking using that method...so they took it away. Guess what? People are STILL fake tanking. The answer to fake tanking is NOT to make it more miserable to tank by restricting builds...there is no answer beyond the tools already available to you. People are going to fake tank no matter what you do....pigeonholing people into specific builds will just make fewer people want to tank at all.

BleedMe_AnOcean

I think people fail to realize (or remember) that these are social experiences and not everyone who's in those groups is like us.

Some of them may be kids, especially on a console.

Some may be first-time MMO players who know diddly squat about the different roles.

Some may be casuals who don't have the time to invest in getting all the best gear or spending hours perfecting their rotations.

The Group Finder is what it is. It's literally a crapshoot. I feel like if you're going to use the Group Finder, the right thing to do is play your role unless the entire group agrees to something different before the instance starts. If you're in a hurry and you need to get it done in 15 minutes from queue to final boss, Group Finder isn't the solution. If I enter a dungeon and someone's fake tanking, I don't worry about it much unless we start dying, and then I ask that person to play the correct role.

In a nutshell, nobody should make random others' lives harder because they're in a hurry or bored.

Kurat

I fake dps lol. I main tank and sometimes get tired of tanking. I carry dps gear and use addon to switch to dps. I can pull 35k single target without changing cp, mundus or attributes. And in 7-8 out of 10 groups I do 50%+ dps in vet dlc dungeons lol.

LashanW

If you run into a fake tank and you don't like it, start a vote kick. Nothing else to do.

Sarannah wrote: »

Fake tanks(and other fake roles) are simply cheating to get major benefits. This should never happen. And I'm generally surprised/saddened by how some players try to place the issue into the hands of those who queue'd for another role, or try to make excuses for this behaviour.

People fake tank because they don't want to wait for a long time in the DD queue. There is a fair amount of tanks in this game and still the DD queue is long, do you know why? It's because average dps of a pug group has gotten so low that most tanks don't want to queue for the dungeon finder. This leads to a major shortage of tanks in the queue which leads to long queue times for DDs and the end result is fake tanks/healers.

idk wrote: »

Most tanks avoid already avoid the GF because of the poorly skilled players and low DPS often found in GF groups. Putting trial requirements, as you have suggested in this thread, will merely drive more actual tanks from the GF making it more making queue times even longer.

Glad to see some people understand the true problem here. I used to pug vet pledges like a mad man 2-3 years ago with my tanks. But average group dps has gotten lower and lower over time, I pretty much completely stopped pugging on my tanks about an year ago.

Jeremy

AyaDark wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

Guys. I am DD now.

And i think that i can solo any not DLC vet HM.

That is what good DPS does.

If you can not, you are as fake DPS as your fake tanks are.

Was this post sarcastic?

Nope, as example of my fake tanking, hear we are:
https://youtu.be/Y3ALbZ3NuBo

If it is hard to do dps for some players, it is possible to make 2 button builds with 30+ k dps and post it.

Do you want me to do it ?

It will be enough for all vet dunguans and dlc to pass.

Do not care stamina or mana, can post both.

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

As a tank player i find these threads amusing because ppl analyze around but most ppl dont understand the problem that leads to this situation in the first place. They just want a quick fix for for that.

DDs generally have a longer queue time no matter what MMO you play. This leads to some ppl trying to cut lines in order to get their stuff done faster. Thats something you cannot easily fix. Tanks have a variety of gear and builds that makes it impossible to check it and would also require tanks to wear their gear all the time they queue.

The important question is why are queue times so high for DDs?

A minor aspect is the Dungeon Finder itself. Queueing for one dungeon sometimes doesnt work and reinforcements also often take very long. So there is a minor aspect.

The way bigger aspect is that there are simply not enought tanks. For this there are 2 reasons.
Tanks are generally on the short end of the stick gamewise because they cannot do quests or overland content with their tank gear. So they need additional gear for this.
The way bigger reason are DDs. Many DDs dont deal enought damage for the content they want to run. They are often undergeared and unskilled and dont know any mechanics. At the same time they are also unaware of that and react agressive when told. They also usually expect tanks to be good and dont want to deal with inexperienced tanks. DDs are also the first ones to line up and complain when Tanks call bad DDs out as fake DDs for being unable to perform their role. Strangely enought there is also complaining whenever ZOS it working on the DPS gap to get good and bad DDs closer together.

So long story short. The main reason for having fake Tanks is bad DDs. Tanks pull out of the Dungeon finder and simply play with friends and small groups of suitable players.

This is a really interesting post.

When you have horrible DPS players they expect you, as the tank, to be very good and hold the enemies in place - even when they can't kill the trash adds. Your talons run out, adds spread out again, so you have to gather all the adds into a ball all over. If you don't do this the DDs literally stand infront of said adds they can't kill until they themselves are killed, because moving around and doing damage is not something they're capable of.

On the other end of the spectrum you'll have DDs with decent damage (not amazing, just decent) and they will not for the life of them allow you (tank) to pull the adds, and gather the adds into a nice tight ball they can burn.
They'll sprint ahead of you and pull everything in sight, having adds spread everywhere - many times run to the boss and pull him too. It's just a total mess you have to try to damage control. Had a run yesterday where I literally told someone "You pull it, you tank it" because he wouldn't stop.

I have seen so many poorly behaved, badly skilled DDs who honestly shouldn't be taking a DD spot.
If you do low damage and love to pull everything in sight why not make a tank? That's essentially what Tank does anyway.

And i hate the most, that they blame tank.

"It is tanks fault, that he stand with hundreds adds and boss with no support"

"Oh my god, little spider look at me, you are bad tank !"

"Tank, it is your fault, that you do not put 2 ebon alcosh , torug oacts and do not proc it without synergys. If you do we would make not 0 dps but 1000% more. 0 + 1000%= the same 0 by the way".

The most problem of current dd is, that they think that just hit dummy is enough. That is all they want to do. It is all that is needed for dps in their opinion.
It does not work like this !

And they think that they play perfect and others do not. So they will tell you how to play your tank, even if they newer play it. What sets to use and etc.

It is really a pain for tank to hear tones of useless information like this sometimes. But you will, each random group or pug trial run.

"Why no one play tanks ? Such responsible role who can by mistake wipe all 12 people group, that is always blamed for everything ?"

Do you like to do mechanics on DD in trial, that if you lose you wipe all group on your dd by the way ?

I think NOPE is the answer.

Maybe I misunderstood your post, then. Or I missed something in the context.

Because it sounded like to me you were saying any DPS who can't solo veteran hard modes is fake DPS. haha

That seems like an awfully high bar to me.

Sarannah

Have been doing pledges for the entire last week, 4-8 per day. And I've only had a bad DPS group once! Every other group the DPS skyrocketed after 1-3 mobgroups. Even groups I thought weren't going to be able to kill the first boss, did so in good time.

I'm starting to think it's not poor DPS, but either WAY too high expectations OR you guys not controlling aggro/situations. I've had dungeons where I sometimes messed up on aggro, or where DPS pulls. It happens on occasion, mostly after not playing for a few hours as I had to refind the vibe. This makes DPS drop incredibly fast, as DPS tries to stay alive or dies.

Almost every dungeon I was in players asked me to queue for the next pledge(s). (Which I never did due to inventory full issues hehe)

Some dungeons go faster if you slow down just slightly. But low DPS is not an excuse for fake tanks!

PS: As a tank I do practically 0 damage, have 0 damage skills slotted! Only taunts, slows, CC, and debuffs equipped(and a ranged taunt/buffs on some of my tanks depending on class).

Edit: Alot of players do/did have issues with complicated mechanics though!

AyaDark

It is a sollution for it by the way 1 is may be i do like.

All 3 roll possible to take and Attestation system.

Like veledrang guest -> you can get 1 role for character and master 2 other by compliting guest for that role.

Mini 5 minutes like maelstorm arena to get role.

Get role - can chouse any you have even all 3 if you want and is capable for.

Want all my 3 rolesback ! Tank+heal+DD

It was funny to random on random role

Who i wil be today? Tank, heal, dd ?

Oh my tank again - will not choise it next time

AyaDark

AyaDark wrote: »

It is a sollution for it by the way 1 is may be i do like.

All 3 roll possible to take and Attestation system.

Like veledrang guest -> you can get 1 role for character and master 2 other by compliting guest for that role.

Mini 5 minutes like maelstorm arena to get role.

Get role - can chouse any you have even all 3 if you want and is capable for.

Want all my 3 rolesback ! Tank+heal+DD

It was funny to random on random role

Who i wil be today? Tank, heal, dd ?

Oh my tank again - will not choise it next time

But i think a lot of DD start to cry why attestation is so hard ? ))

My not meta tank fun by the way:
https://youtu.be/gs-1yNqTgSU

svendf

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

The problem is tanking and healing are not required for normal level dungeons. The content is too easy. Especially for higher level characters. Some newer people aren't nessicarily at this level and any form of check will fail as there are tanks in this game that are "true" tanks but because the player is newer they won't have the same stats as a more experienced tank.

With the rise of the new Pale Ring I don't see this problem going away. Tbh as somebody who has faked tanked more times than he can count I would expect to see an increase of people doing this. The best and only way ZOS address this is by increasing the skill floor for tanks. Buffing mechanics so that they mattered more. So that you couldn't run through with a non-tank step-up and be fine. Problem is they can't because of how casual the player base is for this game. It isn't fair to those casual players. So it sucks that this happens but I don't see a good way to actually solve this problem.

That´s not what I se when leveling tank or healer. You are part of the problem dude and don´t bring anything to the table.

Edit:
increasing the skill floor for tanks. I believe you mean damage perhaps - it´s a bit unclear for me. Sorry about that.

four tanks clear vWGT that´s not about dps that´s skill and knowledge. What I´m against in your argument is that you directly say - tanks and healers are not needed. Who are those player´s, who don´t need them ?

You are saying to those tanks and healers you are not needed. That´s wrong all the way. Don´t you agree ?

AyaDark

svendf wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

The problem is tanking and healing are not required for normal level dungeons. The content is too easy. Especially for higher level characters. Some newer people aren't nessicarily at this level and any form of check will fail as there are tanks in this game that are "true" tanks but because the player is newer they won't have the same stats as a more experienced tank.

With the rise of the new Pale Ring I don't see this problem going away. Tbh as somebody who has faked tanked more times than he can count I would expect to see an increase of people doing this. The best and only way ZOS address this is by increasing the skill floor for tanks. Buffing mechanics so that they mattered more. So that you couldn't run through with a non-tank step-up and be fine. Problem is they can't because of how casual the player base is for this game. It isn't fair to those casual players. So it sucks that this happens but I don't see a good way to actually solve this problem.

That´s not what I se when leveling tank or healer. You are part of the problem dude and don´t bring anything to the table.

Fake tank is not really a problem.

Only vet DLC tank is needed.

Other vet and all normals can be tanked by dd.

That is how it is.

Vet DLC canbe tanked by DD, who play tank good before.

Even some HMs of it.

But to pass vet DLC HMs with fake dd tanking you need good support and group with good skill and dps.

Eliran

Normals do not need tanks, they just don't, max cp players can literally solo them.

Veterans is sometimes a problem I agree, depend on which one.

Sarannah

AyaDark wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

It is a sollution for it by the way 1 is may be i do like.

All 3 roll possible to take and Attestation system.

Like veledrang guest -> you can get 1 role for character and master 2 other by compliting guest for that role.

Mini 5 minutes like maelstorm arena to get role.

Get role - can chouse any you have even all 3 if you want and is capable for.

Want all my 3 rolesback ! Tank+heal+DD

It was funny to random on random role

Who i wil be today? Tank, heal, dd ?

Oh my tank again - will not choise it next time

But i think a lot of DD start to cry why attestation is so hard ? ))

My not meta tank fun by the way:
https://youtu.be/gs-1yNqTgSU

Cool video!! That tank really is strong. But at the same time I am thinking: You didn't taunt a single one of them.

ZOS should implement the abilty to switch roles fully(skills/CP/gear/stats/etc), before they should allow players to queue as multiple roles. I'm totally for it though!

Players keep saying you need a tank in DLC content, but honestly those are all about mechanics. Has nothing to do with tanks or not. If I ever have a DLC run fail, it is always because of mechanics and some players not following them. Mechanics are terrible in some dungeons, which is why many players insta-leave when they get those for randoms.

PS: Personally as a tank i really DO need healers, they kept my butt alive more times than I can count. Besides that, not all of my tanks have a self-heal.

AyaDark

Sarannah wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

It is a sollution for it by the way 1 is may be i do like.

All 3 roll possible to take and Attestation system.

Like veledrang guest -> you can get 1 role for character and master 2 other by compliting guest for that role.

Mini 5 minutes like maelstorm arena to get role.

Get role - can chouse any you have even all 3 if you want and is capable for.

Want all my 3 rolesback ! Tank+heal+DD

It was funny to random on random role

Who i wil be today? Tank, heal, dd ?

Oh my tank again - will not choise it next time

But i think a lot of DD start to cry why attestation is so hard ? ))

My not meta tank fun by the way:
https://youtu.be/gs-1yNqTgSU

Cool video!! That tank really is strong. But at the same time I am thinking: You didn't taunt a single one of them.

ZOS should implement the abilty to switch roles fully(skills/CP/gear/stats/etc), before they should allow players to queue as multiple roles. I'm totally for it though!

Players keep saying you need a tank in DLC content, but honestly those are all about mechanics. Has nothing to do with tanks or not. If I ever have a DLC run fail, it is always because of mechanics and some players not following them. Mechanics are terrible in some dungeons, which is why many players insta-leave when they get those for randoms.

PS: Personally as a tank i really DO need healers, they kept my butt alive more times than I can count. Besides that, not all of my tanks have a self-heal.

There is such a thing addon alpha gear as example.

1 press to change all skills and gear.

https://youtu.be/uzygV1Bd6Gk

The same is dressing room? may be some others.

AyaDark

AyaDark wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

It is a sollution for it by the way 1 is may be i do like.

All 3 roll possible to take and Attestation system.

Like veledrang guest -> you can get 1 role for character and master 2 other by compliting guest for that role.

Mini 5 minutes like maelstorm arena to get role.

Get role - can chouse any you have even all 3 if you want and is capable for.

Want all my 3 rolesback ! Tank+heal+DD

It was funny to random on random role

Who i wil be today? Tank, heal, dd ?

Oh my tank again - will not choise it next time

But i think a lot of DD start to cry why attestation is so hard ? ))

My not meta tank fun by the way:
https://youtu.be/gs-1yNqTgSU

Cool video!! That tank really is strong. But at the same time I am thinking: You didn't taunt a single one of them.

ZOS should implement the abilty to switch roles fully(skills/CP/gear/stats/etc), before they should allow players to queue as multiple roles. I'm totally for it though!

Players keep saying you need a tank in DLC content, but honestly those are all about mechanics. Has nothing to do with tanks or not. If I ever have a DLC run fail, it is always because of mechanics and some players not following them. Mechanics are terrible in some dungeons, which is why many players insta-leave when they get those for randoms.

PS: Personally as a tank i really DO need healers, they kept my butt alive more times than I can count. Besides that, not all of my tanks have a self-heal.

There is such a thing addon alpha gear as example.

1 press to change all skills and gear.

The same is dressing room? may be some others.

---

But i would be happy if Zos do the same like addon ingame option.
Mini-map, change gear by 1 press and etc.

Do not like update addons each time.

Grandchamp1989

This thread is extremely interesting to read.

People got very good suggestions.

Everyone is different skill level and different playstyles I think this should be respected.

You can not reasonably compare a beginner lvl 30 tank with a Dungeon Vet-DLC Dungeon Tank. And you Can't compare a Vet-DLC Dungeon tank with a Vet HM Trial tanks. Different content call for different setups if you truely want to optimize for the content you want to clear.

Tanks on Normal should ideally spec for more damage as other than a few DLC mechs they're basicly immortal.
Tanks on DungeonVetDLC are allowed to go selfish in PUGS but probably best to find a balance in pre-made groups.
Tanks in Vet HM Trials exist to serve DPS and there's VERY rigid lines on what to spec/wear/use. Some Tanks enjoy this very specific playstyle while other people hate it with a passion as it's too limited.

I think instead of a one-size fits all we should ask ourselves what all these types of Tanks got in common.

The answer is: a Taunt. If they can taunt the boss and keep it in place that's what is expected in every tank content. How they reach this goal is vastly different depending on the content you wish to clear.

For that reason I don't think it's fair to keep tanks on normal to the same standard as Trials.
Also you have to factor in experience and playstyle. The only thing you reasonably can not get around is the taunt.

svendf

To little tanks and healers in end game ? Is it there the dog is berried ? Running prog groups with low influx, too many leaving in some guilds- I went that parth and got tired or burned out as a dd + farming trial gear and monster set the day long. I stopped all that not to get burned out on the game as total and happy it didn´t go that way.

Is it bad for end game having tanks and healers running around in low - to medium dungeons included some vet and DLS´s ? I believe so, especially if they are max level. So why not try everything to get them or at least some of them into end game - maybe fake tanks and healers can help out there - I don´t say that´s the case/agenda, but it do smel in that direction.

Let people deside themself where they want to spend their tiime because at the end of the day they are needed all over the place. It doesn´t matter what some of you are saying - you will not get these player´s into end game if they dont want to.

Besides fake tanks have their own aganda and probably very thankful of the suppor few people gives them.

Lets get rid of fake tanks

josiahva

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tanks in Vet HM Trials exist to serve DPS and there's VERY rigid lines on what to spec/wear/use. Some Tanks enjoy this very specific playstyle while other people hate it with a passion as it's too limited.

This attitude is the problem. Tanks don't exist to "serve" anyone. As long as its not a leaderboard run tanks(and DPS and heals for that matter) should be able to wear whatever they feel helps them to the job best. Sure...if a tank is running around in Ironblood and Hatchling's Shell(just an example, those really arent very efficient) in a HM trial...all well and good if it helps them survive. The problem is that tanks are treated like buff monkeys forced to wear sets like Alkosh(nothing wrong with Alkosh, I wear it often enough myself if I feel it helps the group) that have stats that are just not any help for a classical tank. DPS tend to look at the tank as an extension of their DPS. Its fine to run things like Alkosh/Yoln/Powerful Assault etc etc...sets that buff damage are great...but being forced into buffing DPS over self-survival is the problem. Who cares if the DPS is lower without those sets being worn by the tank? As long as you meet the minimum DPS checks it doesn't matter at all unless you are doing leaderboard scoring.

Of course the tank should swap sets to whatever the content and group composition calls for, but it should be their choice...not being pigeonholed into it by the group that only cares about their own personal DPS. I'll put it differently...tanks and healers are called upon to sacrifice everything else to buff the DPS....the DPS don't have to sacrifice anything at all. No one makes DPS wear tank or healer sets "for the group". It makes sense for everyone to wear whatever helps the group get through content easiest...but generally tanks and healers are the only ones doing that.

What it all boils down to is that DPS get the attitude listed above...all in the pursuit of the highest damage numbers and being able to skip mechanics. Maybe some DPS should try dropping one of their sets and run Imperium or something of the nature for fights that there is high incoming damage...but we all know that will never happen.

In the end, it is what it is...tanks are forced to wear certain sets and run certain skills if they want to tank certain trials. A good number of tanks will be forever excluded from this content because of this attitude, unless they go in as a DPS and run whatever they want.

AyaDark

josiahva wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Tanks in Vet HM Trials exist to serve DPS and there's VERY rigid lines on what to spec/wear/use. Some Tanks enjoy this very specific playstyle while other people hate it with a passion as it's too limited.

This attitude is the problem. Tanks don't exist to "serve" anyone. As long as its not a leaderboard run tanks(and DPS and heals for that matter) should be able to wear whatever they feel helps them to the job best. Sure...if a tank is running around in Ironblood and Hatchling's Shell(just an example, those really arent very efficient) in a HM trial...all well and good if it helps them survive. The problem is that tanks are treated like buff monkeys forced to wear sets like Alkosh(nothing wrong with Alkosh, I wear it often enough myself if I feel it helps the group) that have stats that are just not any help for a classical tank. DPS tend to look at the tank as an extension of their DPS. Its fine to run things like Alkosh/Yoln/Powerful Assault etc etc...sets that buff damage are great...but being forced into buffing DPS over self-survival is the problem. Who cares if the DPS is lower without those sets being worn by the tank? As long as you meet the minimum DPS checks it doesn't matter at all unless you are doing leaderboard scoring.

Of course the tank should swap sets to whatever the content and group composition calls for, but it should be their choice...not being pigeonholed into it by the group that only cares about their own personal DPS. I'll put it differently...tanks and healers are called upon to sacrifice everything else to buff the DPS....the DPS don't have to sacrifice anything at all. No one makes DPS wear tank or healer sets "for the group". It makes sense for everyone to wear whatever helps the group get through content easiest...but generally tanks and healers are the only ones doing that.

What it all boils down to is that DPS get the attitude listed above...all in the pursuit of the highest damage numbers and being able to skip mechanics. Maybe some DPS should try dropping one of their sets and run Imperium or something of the nature for fights that there is high incoming damage...but we all know that will never happen.

In the end, it is what it is...tanks are forced to wear certain sets and run certain skills if they want to tank certain trials. A good number of tanks will be forever excluded from this content because of this attitude, unless they go in as a DPS and run whatever they want.

The same:
<<This attitude is the problem. Tanks don't exist to "serve" anyone. >>

What do we do if we kill boss for a yera ? Heal tank ? No we ask him put alcosh on !
What? Really ? May be some heal already.
-Nope.

I understand your fealing )))) So i already do all i needed on my tank now when i play DD.

It was no such RLs / Players before in different games. Now it is everywhere )

No understanding - nothing. Run before tank no support / pul / zero DPS.

Just: AAAAAAAA

idk

Sarannah wrote: »

Have been doing pledges for the entire last week, 4-8 per day. And I've only had a bad DPS group once! Every other group the DPS skyrocketed after 1-3 mobgroups. Even groups I thought weren't going to be able to kill the first boss, did so in good time.

I'm starting to think it's not poor DPS, but either WAY too high expectations OR you guys not controlling aggro/situations. I've had dungeons where I sometimes messed up on aggro, or where DPS pulls. It happens on occasion, mostly after not playing for a few hours as I had to refind the vibe. This makes DPS drop incredibly fast, as DPS tries to stay alive or dies.

Almost every dungeon I was in players asked me to queue for the next pledge(s). (Which I never did due to inventory full issues hehe)

Some dungeons go faster if you slow down just slightly. But low DPS is not an excuse for fake tanks!

PS: As a tank I do practically 0 damage, have 0 damage skills slotted! Only taunts, slows, CC, and debuffs equipped(and a ranged taunt/buffs on some of my tanks depending on class).

Edit: Alot of players do/did have issues with complicated mechanics though!

It sounds like you have been extremely lucky. Every tank and players with tanks I know from my raid group refuse to use the GF due to the quality of players they find there.

@Sarannah You are probably correct, that I have to high of expectations. I have had GF groups that could not kill Urata in vCoA II because they could not kill her adds before she healed from them. Another group could not kill the two mini-bosses before Skoria because no matter how I tanked that fight they could not kill the mini-bosses before we were overrun with to many atros. They could not even kill the atros faster than they spawned. The healer was even helping DPS. Both of those groups I filled after the original tank quit. No one died during those pulls so the tank did their job.

I guess having the expectations that a group can actually kill a boss, even mini-bosses, it a little to high.

A couple of friends and I queue 3-man a few times a week. Far too often we get a player, often melee, that dies to each PBAoE the boss does. We usually stop rezing after they fail twice because they are not learning from their mistakes. Heck, they should change to a range build. Again, I guess I have to high of expectations. A PBAoE is always around the boss and often the tank has no control over it (some can be interrupted).

So yea, blaming us for having to high expectations when the DPS fails to kill the boss time and time again or when we tank trials that make the vet dungeons look like child splay is far from correct. Another tank noted they use some DPS gear when they tank because GF groups often bring very bad DPS. With DPS in the 30ks with tank CP and they noted they are pulling have the DPS of the group meaning the DPS are averaging less than 15k and that is extremely low.

All this is why most decent tanks do not queue solo. It does not mean no decent tanks do, but few of them will risk a headache.

AyaDark

idk wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Have been doing pledges for the entire last week, 4-8 per day. And I've only had a bad DPS group once! Every other group the DPS skyrocketed after 1-3 mobgroups. Even groups I thought weren't going to be able to kill the first boss, did so in good time.

I'm starting to think it's not poor DPS, but either WAY too high expectations OR you guys not controlling aggro/situations. I've had dungeons where I sometimes messed up on aggro, or where DPS pulls. It happens on occasion, mostly after not playing for a few hours as I had to refind the vibe. This makes DPS drop incredibly fast, as DPS tries to stay alive or dies.

Almost every dungeon I was in players asked me to queue for the next pledge(s). (Which I never did due to inventory full issues hehe)

Some dungeons go faster if you slow down just slightly. But low DPS is not an excuse for fake tanks!

PS: As a tank I do practically 0 damage, have 0 damage skills slotted! Only taunts, slows, CC, and debuffs equipped(and a ranged taunt/buffs on some of my tanks depending on class).

Edit: Alot of players do/did have issues with complicated mechanics though!

It sounds like you have been extremely lucky. Every tank and players with tanks I know from my raid group refuse to use the GF due to the quality of players they find there.

@Sarannah You are probably correct, that I have to high of expectations. I have had GF groups that could not kill Urata in vCoA II because they could not kill her adds before she healed from them. Another group could not kill the two mini-bosses before Skoria because no matter how I tanked that fight they could not kill the mini-bosses before we were overrun with to many atros. They could not even kill the atros faster than they spawned. The healer was even helping DPS. Both of those groups I filled after the original tank quit. No one died during those pulls so the tank did their job.

I guess having the expectations that a group can actually kill a boss, even mini-bosses, it a little to high.

A couple of friends and I queue 3-man a few times a week. Far too often we get a player, often melee, that dies to each PBAoE the boss does. We usually stop rezing after they fail twice because they are not learning from their mistakes. Heck, they should change to a range build. Again, I guess I have to high of expectations. A PBAoE is always around the boss and often the tank has no control over it (some can be interrupted).

So yea, blaming us for having to high expectations when the DPS fails to kill the boss time and time again or when we tank trials that make the vet dungeons look like child splay is far from correct. Another tank noted they use some DPS gear when they tank because GF groups often bring very bad DPS. With DPS in the 30ks with tank CP and they noted they are pulling have the DPS of the group meaning the DPS are averaging less than 15k and that is extremely low.

All this is why most decent tanks do not queue solo. It does not mean no decent tanks do, but few of them will risk a headache.

Some times DPS really is not a problem. I do not like to go tank now but last time i was - yes they do low dps.
They kill boss may be 5-10 minutes.
When i ask will they kill boss already - they say sorry.

I do not say anything more, we really do the DLC - can not say anything more bad. Low DPS but - no:
Tank put sets for us - tank heal me - tank's are supports and etc.
Just low dps is ok of all other is not that bad. Attitude is very important.

But it always looks like - pul everything - 0 DPS, a lot of telling what i need to do.
I once be in party with 2 like that. I get as angry that i take all ADDS and wipe tham by Calldown - and say thet they newer pass this run. And they do not. We can not kick them 2 on 2 sdituation. But then theu live and we pass with 2 randoms lower level - NORMALLy.

Tanks know what to do - it is there rall - and you may be not ! If you do not play it.

With this meta all try to loock at it is even worse.

Any party with 200 k dps needs warm cult from tank and etc.

May be lip rolling machine ? Tank is support - What ?

Tank have to survive on his own - excuseme ???? In robe and medium and tons of adds ??? With no support ?

She saw it some where ... .

- Ah it make difference ... . May be in madhouse ?

SgtNuttzmeg

svendf wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

The problem is tanking and healing are not required for normal level dungeons. The content is too easy. Especially for higher level characters. Some newer people aren't nessicarily at this level and any form of check will fail as there are tanks in this game that are "true" tanks but because the player is newer they won't have the same stats as a more experienced tank.

With the rise of the new Pale Ring I don't see this problem going away. Tbh as somebody who has faked tanked more times than he can count I would expect to see an increase of people doing this. The best and only way ZOS address this is by increasing the skill floor for tanks. Buffing mechanics so that they mattered more. So that you couldn't run through with a non-tank step-up and be fine. Problem is they can't because of how casual the player base is for this game. It isn't fair to those casual players. So it sucks that this happens but I don't see a good way to actually solve this problem.

That´s not what I se when leveling tank or healer. You are part of the problem dude and don´t bring anything to the table.

Edit:
increasing the skill floor for tanks. I believe you mean damage perhaps - it´s a bit unclear for me. Sorry about that.

four tanks clear vWGT that´s not about dps that´s skill and knowledge. What I´m against in your argument is that you directly say - tanks and healers are not needed. Who are those player´s, who don´t need them ?

You are saying to those tanks and healers you are not needed. That´s wrong all the way. Don´t you agree ?

You don't need a healer vDSA. What does that say about Normal Dungeons? It means that either the intrinsic scaling of healing so sharp that a DPS can preform the required healing to survive or the resistances intrinsic to a DPS scale to a point where they don't need the resistances of a tank.

What I mean is that the mechanics in most Normal Dungeons are watered down to a point where any DPS can survive them. You don't need resistances, you don't even really need to block most. All you need is a damage shield or a vigor. It's not about increasing the damage tanks do but rather what they have to take. It's also a question of CP scaling and the lack of combat difficulty scaling. You get so much free mitigation from this, there is just too much of a difference in-between a level 10 tank with no CP and a CP 810 tank.

At the end of the day there are a lot of casual players in this game that want to play it the way they want to play it. They don't chase the meta, they don't even consider the meta, they just slot skills because they like those skills. And that is fine. But it means that normals will likely always be easy and as along as they are easy DPS will be able to preform a tanking role. Especially with the addition of the Pale Ring Mythic item I can see a lot of DPS just queueing in groups of four and taking on vet dungeons with relative ease.

To answer your question: yes they are not needed for a lot of the content in this game. That is the core issue here, if you needed a tank and a healer to beat a normal dungeon you wouldn't get fake tanks because it simply wouldn't work. People wouldn't clear the content.

AyaDark

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

The problem is tanking and healing are not required for normal level dungeons. The content is too easy. Especially for higher level characters. Some newer people aren't nessicarily at this level and any form of check will fail as there are tanks in this game that are "true" tanks but because the player is newer they won't have the same stats as a more experienced tank.

With the rise of the new Pale Ring I don't see this problem going away. Tbh as somebody who has faked tanked more times than he can count I would expect to see an increase of people doing this. The best and only way ZOS address this is by increasing the skill floor for tanks. Buffing mechanics so that they mattered more. So that you couldn't run through with a non-tank step-up and be fine. Problem is they can't because of how casual the player base is for this game. It isn't fair to those casual players. So it sucks that this happens but I don't see a good way to actually solve this problem.

That´s not what I se when leveling tank or healer. You are part of the problem dude and don´t bring anything to the table.

Edit:
increasing the skill floor for tanks. I believe you mean damage perhaps - it´s a bit unclear for me. Sorry about that.

four tanks clear vWGT that´s not about dps that´s skill and knowledge. What I´m against in your argument is that you directly say - tanks and healers are not needed. Who are those player´s, who don´t need them ?

You are saying to those tanks and healers you are not needed. That´s wrong all the way. Don´t you agree ?

You don't need a healer vDSA. What does that say about Normal Dungeons? It means that either the intrinsic scaling of healing so sharp that a DPS can preform the required healing to survive or the resistances intrinsic to a DPS scale to a point where they don't need the resistances of a tank.

What I mean is that the mechanics in most Normal Dungeons are watered down to a point where any DPS can survive them. You don't need resistances, you don't even really need to block most. All you need is a damage shield or a vigor. It's not about increasing the damage tanks do but rather what they have to take. It's also a question of CP scaling and the lack of combat difficulty scaling. You get so much free mitigation from this, there is just too much of a difference in-between a level 10 tank with no CP and a CP 810 tank.

At the end of the day there are a lot of casual players in this game that want to play it the way they want to play it. They don't chase the meta, they don't even consider the meta, they just slot skills because they like those skills. And that is fine. But it means that normals will likely always be easy and as along as they are easy DPS will be able to preform a tanking role. Especially with the addition of the Pale Ring Mythic item I can see a lot of DPS just queueing in groups of four and taking on vet dungeons with relative ease.

To answer your question: yes they are not needed for a lot of the content in this game. That is the core issue here, if you needed a tank and a healer to beat a normal dungeon you wouldn't get fake tanks because it simply wouldn't work. People wouldn't clear the content.

You do not need healer tank and DD to vDSA - it can be passed by 4 people of each of that roles.

Role is not as important - people are.

Healers do not like to hear - that they are no need.

But for all my game 8000+ hours play i only see 8 good tanks / 8 healers /and may be 10 dds

And healers like that i would really need )))

But the same for DD and tanks.

But those who do nothing are no needed. And it is not based on there role - but on how they play.

SgtNuttzmeg

idk wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

With DPS in the 30ks with tank CP and they noted they are pulling have the DPS of the group meaning the DPS are averaging less than 15k and that is extremely low.

This is the other side of the issue. Tanking and Healing are really easy early on but DPSing has a far sharper learning curve. Something ZOS should really consider doing is providing a Tutorial that explains LA weaving and teaches the basics. Also in order to get have decent DPS you need some what good or well DPS oriented gear. I know a lot of casual tanks that have non optimized setups that can tank most vet dungeons but without a barebones DPS setup most DPS can't complete vet dungeon content.

CrashTest

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

To answer your question: yes they are not needed for a lot of the content in this game. That is the core issue here, if you needed a tank and a healer to beat a normal dungeon you wouldn't get fake tanks because it simply wouldn't work. People wouldn't clear the content.

That's a bit misleading. You don't need a tank or healer ONLY if you're experienced and skilled enough to survive or solo and faceroll content. I guarantee you, this is not the majority of the player base. And I think people who are the exception constantly saying tanks and heals aren't needed add to the problem of fake tanks and heals bc DPS who can't do without tank and heals think they can, so they queue as fake tank and get dead or kite everything everywhere or mobs hitting everyone, causing the run to take longer than necessary.

Iselin

Eliran wrote: »

Normals do not need tanks, they just don't, max cp players can literally solo them.

Veterans is sometimes a problem I agree, depend on which one.

Relevant in premades but besides the point when the subject is queue jumping by queuing for a role you're not capable of doing in a PUG you know nothing about ahead of time.

It's not rocket science. Basic tanks in normal dungeons only need to do 3 things: taunt, gather mobs into an AOE killing area and stay there with them without kiting.

And healers need to heal others when they need it so they can DPS or tank.

Those that can't do either of those need to queue as DPS for PUGs and actually try their best to DPS otherwise they're just queue jumpers using excuses like "you don't need a tank in normals" to justify their self-entitlement.

It also has nothing to do with good vs. bad nor how you go about doing the role with what weapon. You're telling others you can do something by queuing for that role... so do it and stop conning your random group mates.

SgtNuttzmeg

CrashTest wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

To answer your question: yes they are not needed for a lot of the content in this game. That is the core issue here, if you needed a tank and a healer to beat a normal dungeon you wouldn't get fake tanks because it simply wouldn't work. People wouldn't clear the content.

That's a bit misleading. You don't need a tank or healer ONLY if you're experienced and skilled enough to survive or solo and faceroll content. I guarantee you, this is not the majority of the player base. And I think people who are the exception constantly saying tanks and heals aren't needed add to the problem of fake tanks and heals bc DPS who can't do without tank and heals think they can, so they queue as fake tank and get dead or kite everything everywhere or mobs hitting everyone, causing the run to take longer than necessary.

You don't need alot of experience to do this. You need one survivability skill on your bar and to read the tooltip/know how it works.

the1andonlyskwex

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

To answer your question: yes they are not needed for a lot of the content in this game. That is the core issue here, if you needed a tank and a healer to beat a normal dungeon you wouldn't get fake tanks because it simply wouldn't work. People wouldn't clear the content.

That's a bit misleading. You don't need a tank or healer ONLY if you're experienced and skilled enough to survive or solo and faceroll content. I guarantee you, this is not the majority of the player base. And I think people who are the exception constantly saying tanks and heals aren't needed add to the problem of fake tanks and heals bc DPS who can't do without tank and heals think they can, so they queue as fake tank and get dead or kite everything everywhere or mobs hitting everyone, causing the run to take longer than necessary.

You don't need alot of experience to do this. You need one survivability skill on your bar and to read the tooltip/know how it works.

But that requirement isn't just for someone queueing as a tank, it's for every person in the tankless group. You should assume other people in the group finder don't meet that requirement.

Jeremy

The role of a tank is, and I quote:

Absorbs damage from enemies and prevents allies from being attacked.

That is from ESO the game itself, so I think they have the final word on this. So if you queue up as a role that does not focus on doing that then you are a fake tank.

Singing up for a dungeon in some uber solo build and letting your teammates die while you solo Vet Hard Modes does not make you a tank. People need to learn the group finder is built around specific roles and working together as a team. If players want to implement different strategies based on independent solo builds then they should form their own groups.

Another solution would be for the developers to add another feature to the group finder that players can sign up for with no designated roles. I'm in favor of adding such an option. Because posters are not wrong when they say much of the content does not require specific roles to complete. But that is no excuse to lie about performing a role you really have no intention of doing.